[Deck] Countersliver (MeatHooks)

Welp, I've been playing the deck lately after picking up a playset of Cavern of Souls and Phantasmal Image. Usually we get ~10-15 players (not quite 16 but easily over 10).

Last week I tried UWGb with a creature tutor package sideboard and a singleton Living Wish. It went poorly and I went 1-3. I had a poor sideboard plan, was running 19 lands which was too few, and was misplaying a ton. I won't go much into that tournament, other than to say it was a total cluster.

This week I went UWG. I went 2-2 yet still had flaws in the deck (posted below) and I definitely could have played better at several points. Round 1 lost vs Reanimator (I think I could have won game 3 had I played better). Round 2 I won vs Dark Depths. Round 3 I won vs RUG Delver. Round 4 I lost to Elf combo.

A few thoughts after playing my current version:

1. Delver of Secrets is ever present, and is always a 3/2 flyer. I found myself often with a Muscle Sliver + Galerider Sliver and not being able to profitably attack. Talon Sliver might be a 1-2 of in the deck to combat the flying insect. It might also be correct to run a full set of Galerider Sliver + 1-2 Winged Sliver post sideboard vs Delver decks just to have enough flying.
2. I'm liking Daze less and less. Too many good players play around it and they can slow roll their hands vs us. We aren't that fast. Too often, I'm playing Crystalline T2, Muscle on T3+T4 and then beating down. They can happily play their 2CC cards on turn 3 because we're not presenting an overwhelming threat as of yet (they also get to threaten us with countermagic). I'm more willing to slow us down a turn and have Spell Pierce mana up.
3. More lands and better lands. We need to hit our land drops and require Islands to hit the key cards of countermagic, Phantasmal Image, and Crystalline Sliver. I find that until mid game, I'm tapping out or effectively tapping out with only countermagic lands up. I see 20 lands as the typical number posted, but has anyone tried 21 lands? I know that 19 lands isn't enough from some previous playing!
4. I'm not sure if Tundra + Trop + 3 basics is the correct plan. It might be correct to go 2x Tundra + 2x Trop + Island. I love Mutavault, it's a land + late game uncounterable creature. Cavern of Souls is too good at fixing and getting creatures to stick to be left out.
5. Phantasmal Image is a MVP. It can be Muscle Sliver 13-16 or you can have your own Tarmogoyf, Delver, Bob, Marit Lage Token, or Griselbrand if needed. When you can't beat them, join them.
6. Mutavault and Crystalline Sliver being 2/2 vs the 1/1 the lords is relevant. I find a 2/2 is with an ability is useful over a 1/1 muscle sliver when attacking or defending.
7. Harmonic Sliver is annoying to run maindeck, but there are just too many artifacts/enchantments that murder the deck. Worst case scenario you are blowing up your own Aether Vial after you've gotten some use out of it. Best case you are murdering Batterskull or Jitte. Game 2 and 3 you are taking out the Harmonic Slivers or you are putting in the other two, there really isn't any middle ground.
8. With Aether Vial + Cavern of Souls, our slivers are surprisingly hard to counter. If they can't counter our slivers, with Crystalline they stick around on the board longer than I've expected. I'm not sure where to go with this and how to profit, but I've found that countermagic wars start over opponents cards and not trying to stick a critical Crystalline or Galerider Sliver.
9. Gaddock Teeg SB fills your needs vs Miracles. There isn't any Miracles in my area, so I don't run him but it's an option (he's also 2 CC and costs GW which is in colors). Another possible option vs some decks would be Phrexian Revoker as another 2 CC creature that fits your color scheme (I prefer Pithing Needle but to each their own). There's no shame in calling something not-Slivers on your Cavern of Souls to force your hatebears through vs countermagic.

Onto the deck:
//Artifact (4)
4x Aether Vial

//Creatures (26)
4x Phantasmal Image
4x Crystalline Sliver
4x Galerider Sliver
2x Harmonic Sliver
4x Sinew Sliver
4x Predatory Sliver
4x Muscle Sliver

//Instants (10)
2x Brainstorm
2x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce

//Lands (20)
2x Flooded Strand*
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Polluted Delta*
4x Mutavault
4x Cavern of Souls
1x Plains
1x Island
1x Forest
1x Tropical Island
1x Tundra

//Side Board (16)
1x Bonescythe Sliver**
1x Living Wish**
2x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Rest in Peace
2x Ashen Rider
2x Harmonic Sliver
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Pithing Needle
1x Ethersworn Cannonist
1x Teferi's Response (secret tech with Mutavault :tongue:)
1x Disrupt

//Decklist Notes
* Fetch lands should be 3x Flooded Strand and 4x Misty Rainforest. For some reason, I've misplaced my 3rd Flooded Strand.
** Screwed up and left these in from a previous version of the deck. They should be 1x Relic of Progenitus and 1x Spirit of the Labyrinth.

As you probably noticed, this list placed high in the latest Legacy Open. Congrats to Blake Patraw.

Maindeck (61):

4 Aether Vial
2 Relic of Progenitus

4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Hibernation Sliver
3 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
1 Winged Sliver

4 Brainstorm
3 Daze
4 Force of Will

1 Island
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Mutavault
3 Sliver Hive
1 Tropical Island
1 Tundra
1 Underground Sea


Sideboard:

2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Darkheart Sliver
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Sower of Temptation
2 Flusterstorm
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben


I really like the list. It accurately mirrors my own thoughts on how to go about building a CounterSliver deck today:

1. No StP or other creature removal. Slivers can fly, and can be huge. Why should they care about other creatures, just fly over them, or stomp on them. Chumpblock if necessary.
2. Crystalline Sliver is always good in a meta saturated with spot removal.
3. Mass removal other than Terminus is almost non existing, or is aimed at low toughness creatures (nice Electrickey).
4. Maindeck Relic of Progenitus as a precaution against Treasure Cruise (don't know how effective it is, but I agree that one has to try something).

The only thing I have difficulty with is Sliver Hive. It seems to be that they are just bad copies of Cavern of Soul, until you hit 6 mana, maybe even then.
Did Sliver Hive do anything? Are they necessary for the deck to function?
I wonder if more duals and/or fetches, and/or City of Brass/Mana Confluence wouldn't be strictly better, also considering the Dazes and spell options.

Well I have been wanting to play this deck for awhile and after finally finding a playset of Crystalline Sliver I put the deck together. Unfortunately i found in my rough drafts of playing with various lists I have found on the internet one thing become abundantly clear. THE MANA BASE IS COMPLETELY TERRIBLE. There where list that ran 11 to 12 lands that for one reason or another would tap for colorless mana because of some rider text (i.e. Cavern of Souls). Now that is not a problem for a deck such as Goblins or Merfolk but they are normally mono colored decks that may dabble in a splash from time to time. Yet when they dabble in that splash certain lands from the mono color version do not get added. This lead me to change up the mana base a bit to a more of a Temur/Jeskai Delver mana base setup which actually freed up some space to allow some card filtering.

Here is the list:
Creatures
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
3 Phantasmal Image

Spells
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm
4 Aether Vial
2 Spell Pierce

Lands
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Wasteland
3 Tropical Island
3 Tundra
1 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Flusterstorm
2 Gilded Drake
2 Meddling Mage
2 Harmonic Sliver


This is the list I have been running for the past 2 weeks at my LGS Legacy tournament. The deck seems very solid and I feel more that I have not done well do to poor mulliganning and play decisions than to just being outclassed. My only thing is with the sideboard I feel that the Thalia's are unneeded and would be better served by something else such as Grafdigger's Cage, Pithing Needle, or Phyrexian Revoker. Otherwise i think that if we cut mainly the lands that do not produce colored mana or produce colored mana with a rider to a minimum the deck actually runs smoother and is not so reliant on just being able to beat face right out of the gate. Rather we can spend a few turns baiting out counters, chump blocking even just trading one for one because at the end of it all we can still just go over the top of most decks .

P.S. Normally I play T.E.S. but I needed a brake so I came to this deck and I actually do believe that this gives just about any deck that has been played at any of the last SCG Legacy IQ's or Opens a run for the money.

The hand-wringing over land gives me a wistful smile, because Volt warned about this years ago. "Back in my day" we successfully ran 18 land supporting up to 4 colors. There must be concessions made to Mutavault, but the other reason more lands seem necessary in today's lists is because people aren't using enough cantrips to find the mana they need. Even today, build Meathooks around a core of 7 cantrips, 7 fetches, and 4 Vials. That is, if you value consistency.

Hi all. The OP has been updated. I like to update it once a decade, whether it needs it or not.

So. This deck appears to have been given up for dead. Let's do something about that, shall we? I think it can be on a par with Merfolk.

I am currently playing this on magic online:


4 Galerider Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Hibernation Sliver
1 Winged Sliver

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm

4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Sliver Hive
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

Sideboard:
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Meddling Mage
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Flusterstorm
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares


I have really enjoyed it so far. The only thing is I really want containment priest in the board, but I really love the current configuration. I will probably have some news for you guys on Thursday when I play in the daily event.

Solid looking list. I think I would be worried about having so many "slivers only" mana sources, though. Cavern of Souls is a godsend, but are the Sliver Hives really worth it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ironclad8690

I am currently playing this on magic online:


4 Galerider Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
3 Hibernation Sliver
1 Winged Sliver

4 Aether Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
4 Brainstorm

4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Sliver Hive
2 Underground Sea
1 Tundra
1 Tropical Island
1 Island
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

Sideboard:
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Meddling Mage
3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Flusterstorm
2 Sower of Temptation
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Swords to Plowshares


I have really enjoyed it so far. The only thing is I really want containment priest in the board, but I really love the current configuration. I will probably have some news for you guys on Thursday when I play in the daily event.

---

cool list, is 4 fetches enough to justify 4 brainstorm? might there be a better card here, or a split between flusterstorms maindeck and something else? maybe 2 fluster, 2 thoughtseize? or 1 fluster, 1 brainstorm, 1 gitaxian probe, 1 cabal therapy?

(keep in mind you've probably used one fetch to start with your blue source to cast brainstorm)

cabal therapy would also be great with the sower of tempatation in the sb.

Yeah, the 4 fetches is part of what I was concerned about, too. Brainstorm is too important to be talking about cutting them for Flusterstorms and whatnot. You don't want your mana base to get in the way of Brainstorm. Playing so many mutavaults, caverns, and hives means you will have hands where you have no islands, and thus no way to cast Brainstorm. And having so few fetches means there will be times when you can't shuffle away those two dead cards.

Also, why 2 Underground Sea and only 1 Tundra and 1 Trop? Is that just a matter of card availability?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Volt

Yeah, the 4 fetches is part of what I was concerned about, too. Brainstorm is too important to be talking about cutting them for Flusterstorms and whatnot. You don't want your mana base to get in the way of Brainstorm. Playing so many mutavaults, caverns, and hives means you will have hands where you have no islands, and thus no way to cast Brainstorm. And having so few fetches means there will be times when you can't shuffle away those two dead cards.

Also, why 2 Underground Sea and only 1 Tundra and 1 Trop? Is that just a matter of card availability?

---

I just sort of copied one of the lists that did well in the treasure cruise era. I figured if that guy can get away with it so can I. I might change it around if I feel like I am having trouble.

Fair enough. Can't argue with success. Patraw had quite a nice run with the slivers last year.

On another note, it seems like Envelop would be a very good sideboard card for this deck. There's a lot of bomb sorceries in this format. Terminus, Natural Order, Glimpse of Nature, Show and Tell, Reanimate/Exhume, Hymn to Tourach, etc.

So I did a lot of thinking today on my road trip and, as much as it pains me to say, the version posted earlier does not have what it takes to compete in the online metagame.

I made some changes to my list, and I think I have really improved the combo/tempo matchups as well as stabilized the manabase like you guys suggested:


4 Galerider Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Muscle Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Crystalline Sliver
4 Phantasmal Image
1 Winged Sliver

4 Aether Vial
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
3 Chalice of the Void

4 Tundra
4 Tropical Island
4 Windswept Heath
4 Mutavault
4 Cavern of Souls

Sideboard:
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
3 Karakas
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Rest in Peace
3 Meddling Mage
2 Ethersworn Canonist


I think this list actually has what it takes vs Elves, Storm, Reanimator, Sneak and Show etc postboard, while it should have a pretty nice g1 against the fair decks and all of their removal etc. Chalice breaks some matchups wide open, and Phantasmal: 1) acts as lords 13-16, 2) has no downside with Crystalline Sliver out, 3) vialing it in vs Fatty decks and copying their Shown and Told Emrakul or whatever/Griselbrand if they are reanimator (and we also have counterspells to draw into with griselbrands ability).

Hm. Chalice is an interesting thought. I'd really like it if we had a way of playing it for 1 on turn 1. Giving up Brainstorm is a really hard ask for me, though.

I like the sliver suite and mana base. I think you could play a couple or three basics. 1-2 islands and a plains, and replace the Windswepts with Strands. Just a thought.

After a couple of matches I realized I need artifact/enchantment hate.

Enter Harmonic Sliver, in place of the revokers above.

Here is my testing so far:

Aluren: 1-2
Sneak and Show: 2-0
Turbo Depths: 0-2
Punishing RUG: 2-1
Deathblade: 1-2
Deathblade w/Hymn: 2-0

It is surprising how resilient this is vs the fair decks, I am hoping to get some testing in vs the unfair decks tonight in the daily event. Report to come (even if I 0-2 drop)

So. I've been doing some goldfishing, and I think the 4c deck does work better with a non-zero number of Sliver Hives, in addition to the 4 Caverns. I'm currently trying 2, but wouldn't be surprised if I end up at 3. Guess that Patraw guy knew what he was doing.

Here's how I did:

Lands: 1-2

Grixis Delver: 2-0

Stax: 2-0

Infect: 0-2

Infect felt like a very challenging match to win. Lands is very beatable between Crystalline Sliver and Phantasmal Image copying Marit Lage. I can now see how Hibernation Sliver is a major swing in both the Lands matchup AND the Infect matchup, while also really helping against the Baleful Strix decks.

I think I still want to go straight Bant colored though, it was much more consistent, but the added power of hibernation might be worth it.

Gonna keep working on this deck though, super fun!

Hello all of you!

I'm really glad this thread is open again. I started MTG in the late 90s and stopped for a while and then started again end of 2014.

I found my nice Sligh deck was outdated and that the so famous Counter Sliver was dead, but I think it isn't.

I hesitate between two lists, the standard Counter Slivers and the mirrored Merfolk with Chalice and no Brainstorm.

Here are the lists.

List 1:


4 Cavern of Souls
2 Sliver Hive
4 Mutavault
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
1 Island

4 AEther Vial
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze

4 Crystalline Sliver
3 Muscle Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Hibernation Sliver
1 Winged Sliver


List Merfolk Mirror:


4 Cavern of Souls
4 Mutavault
2 Sliver Hive
1 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
1 Island
4 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta

4 AEther Vial
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Force of Will
3 Daze

4 Crystalline Sliver
3 Muscle Sliver
3 Predatory Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
4 Hibernation Sliver
1 Winged Sliver
2 Phantasmal Image


To be honest I didn't test them on competition but both seem to have their strengths and weaknesses.

As for the SB I was thinking about something like :


3 Harmonic Sliver
2 Containment Priest
3 Rest in Peace
2 Darkheart Sliver
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Swan Song
1 Phyrexian Revoker

What do you think? Go Slivers!

Thanks for the mini-report, ironclad!

I'll be honest, the chalice plan doesn't immediately appeal to me, but maybe I could be talked into it. Right now, I'm concentrating on tweaking Patraw's 4c build (with a super-tech Ensnare in the main), but I've always been partial to the original Bant Hooks myself. I'm sure I'll have more to say about both.

ED: More updates have been made to the OP, btw.

Did some playtesting tonight, and I take it back. Patraw's manabase is clunky as hell. I took the Sliver Hives back out and even cut a mutavault to make room for more islands. It runs much smoother now, making my Brainstorms, Dazes, and even Ensnare better. Also, I've been tinkering with squeezing a couple of non-standard slivers into the maindeck for life gain effects. That's just an experiment at this point. Here's my list as of right now:

4 Crystalline Sliver
3 Hibernation Sliver
4 Sinew Sliver
4 Predatory Sliver
3 Muscle Sliver
4 Galerider Sliver
2 Syphon Sliver

4 AEther Vial
4 Force of Will
3 Daze
4 Brainstorm
1 Ensnare

4 Cavern of Souls
3 Mutavault
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
2 Tundra
2 Tropical Island
1 Underground Sea
1 Island

ED: So, yeah, I think Syphon Sliver is a strong contender for maindeck inclusion. Darkhearts can come in from the side for the Burn matchup.

I have some testing results, using the 4c list from my last post.

Game 1 vs Burn is very close to 50/50. Burn used to be a bad matchup for MeatHooks, but the addition of Syphon Sliver helps even things up. After sideboarding, we should be favored.

Grixis Delver is a blowout in our favor. If they can keep your vial off the board and keep you off mana, they win. Otherwise, the slivers generally roll over them.