[Deck] Reanimator

I never got a Study countered, but you know you only throw the dude you have in hand, and maybe you don't want THAT dude. Sometimes you just play it and do not get what you need. That's the problem with Study.
I am playing a version with 4 seizes and no rituals nor petals. It's slower and has no explosive plays, but I can get some info or clear the way. Playing more aggresively makes Study more dependant on what you have/draw.
Consider entomb as the real business and Study as a little occasional help. Unfortunately we do not have access to more entombs, just 4 :(

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Originally Posted by Davetradint

Consider entomb as the real business and Study as a little occasional help. Unfortunately we do not have access to more entombs, just 4 :(

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Looks like a lot of people want more than 4x Entombs. If you all want more so badly, have you all forgotten about Buried Alive? This could go a long way toward filling that need. This is what I used before Entomb came along, and I still keep 1-2 of them in my deck.

Here are the differences:

1. It's a sorcery. But in my experience, this rarely makes a difference here.
2. It costs 2B. This is significant, but it can also be an advantage. a 3cc spell is less likely to be stopped by Counterbalance.
3. It only puts creatures in the graveyard. Again, this makes little difference; in a reanimator deck, this is usually what you would want to do anyway.
4. It puts three creatures in. Unless you get hit with graveyard hate, this is quite a bonus. You can throw 3 different fatties to cover different situations. It also lets you hit threshold faster, if that is a factor in your deck (like with Putrid Imp).

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

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Originally Posted by John Rohan

Looks like a lot of people want more than 4x Entombs. If you all want more so badly, have you all forgotten about Buried Alive? This could go a long way toward filling that need. This is what I used before Entomb came along, and I still keep 1-2 of them in my deck.

Here are the differences:

1. It's a sorcery. But in my experience, this rarely makes a difference here.Oh, for hell it matters! example 1: fetch for sea, float one black, daze, cast entomb, next turn win anyone? Also responding to activated fetchlands, EOT cast are very important!
2. It costs 2B. This is significant, but it can also be an advantage. a 3cc spell is less likely to be stopped by Counterbalance. True, but, the spells that are just as important cost 1B and B, now how often do you think that gets passed CB?
3. It only puts creatures in the graveyard. Again, this makes little difference; in a reanimator deck, this is usually what you would want to do anyway. On a very rare occasion when ANT is exploding in your face I used entomb to get a Force of will, one misstake they can make when they go off with duress instead of chant.
4. It puts three creatures in. Unless you get hit with graveyard hate, this is quite a bonus. You can throw 3 different fatties to cover different situations. It also lets you hit threshold faster, if that is a factor in your deck (like with Putrid Imp). putrid imp builds no longer see play, shame though it's a nice creature but that deck died to CB horribly, so treshhold is of no factor, getting everythig removed by a single crypt is a huge risk you prefer not to take, losing 1-2 creatures is fine, but NOT 3!

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

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I don't want to reveal an exact list yet because I am not confortable with its quality. Right now, I am Testing an 18 land 4 creature MD Thoughtseize build very similar to the one that won an SCG 5K.

Testing 2 Null Rod in the board is very cool. The question, is it better than bounce to combat hate? My experience and intution have both said yes but this is quite dependent on how much you want to board in. While bounce is super flexible, answers the problem at hand, and can also help you race creatures, 1 null rod will usually shut down at least 2 pieces of hate (1 crypt, 1 relic). It also splashes onto many powerful MD and sb cards.

Testing last night, I had a lot of problems with Zoo. Onetime I animate the Sphinx with plenty of life and they PtE it. Another time I wait for protection and after a reanimate I get burnt out. Another time I thoughtseized their goyf reanimated it and still lost. I did not have perish in the board but I imagine that is why it is there? Can some people share their general strategy vs. zoo? Additionally can you guys suggest 1. The most powerful SB options and 2. Flexible and multi-use SB options.

Thanks,
JKat

@ Buried Alive

Buried alive just doesn't have a place in the deck. If I want a 3cc spell against CB, it will be Grip. Intuition could possible have a place, but I doubt it (Gigapede + Target is junk anyways).


@ Careful Study

As to Careful Study (related to this Entomb debate), my mind is changing. Yes, with 5-7 creatures in the deck, you have very good odds to use Careful Study to pitch a creature. Against jank, any random creature + minimal protection will usually go the distance (Study makes the deck very fast in these cases). However, against more specific matchups (one's with particular needs), I don't want just some random creature, I want a specific one. In difficult matches (where I only want 1 or 2 targets, and care nothing for the others) and especially games 2 and 3 with proper sideboarding, Careful Study isn't so hot. Study is not fast at finding the exact target you want.

I have to admit that after further testing, I am growing fonder of Ponder. Ponder is much slower than Careful study at putting just any random bomb into GY/play, but it is substantially faster at putting the exact creature you want into play. In games 2 and 3, where I'm very often siding out useless Reanimation targets, Careful study becomes substantially weaker. Furthermore, Ponder improves the odds of seeing the cards which I've sided in. Using Ponder relieves pressure off Mystical Tutor (which has to fulfill so many functions in this deck), and it lowers the number of mulligans I take.

I really think it is worth slowing down (by running fewer Careful Study) against matches where we don't care which target we Reanimate (which are usually easy matches to begin with) in order to speed up against the matches that have more specific reanimation target requirements and greater need of our sideboard cards (by improving our overall card selection through Ponder).

What I'm using:


// Lands -- 18
3 [ZEN] Misty Rainforest
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
4 [B] Underground Sea
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [P3] Swamp (2)
1 [BD] Island (3)
1 [R] Bayou
1 [B] Tropical Island

// Creatures -- 6
2 [ZEN] Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 [ALA] Empyrial Archangel
1 [ARB] Sphinx of the Steel Wind
1 [RAV] Blazing Archon
1 [CFX] Inkwell Leviathan

// Control -- 12
4 [DD2] Daze
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
1 [DS] Echoing Truth

//Reanimation Effects -- 8
4 [FNM] Reanimate
4 [US] Exhume

//Card Selection -- 16
4 [OD] Entomb
4 [V09] Mystical Tutor
1 [OD] Careful Study
4 [BD] Brainstorm
3 [MPR] Ponder

// Sideboard
SB: 2 [ZEN] Spell Pierce
SB: 1 [US] Show and Tell
SB: 1 [OD] Extract
SB: 1 [TE] Perish
SB: 2 [TSP] Krosan Grip
SB: 1 [NE] Reverent Silence
SB: 1 [4E] Hurkyl's Recall
SB: 1 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 1 [TSP] Trickbind
SB: 1 [TO] Sickening Dreams
SB: 1 [ZEN] Ravenous Trap
SB: 1 [SC] Stifle

For the 4th Ponder, I'd cut a Thoughtseize or Iona. Please note that I still run 1x Careful study, which does get mystical tutor'd from time to time, and like Echoing Truth, absolutely deserves a singleton slot. Thoughtseize, end-step discard, and brainstorm also dump trapped targets (rarer than you'd think) when Study is not available.

I've also noticed that many of you playing the Green splash prefer to run 2x Bayou instead of 1x Bayou + 1x Tropical Island. I highly suggest a Tropical Island. This allows your fetches to pickup exactly any 2 colors you want.


@ Null Rod

You can't Mystical tutor it (that is awful), which means you have to run 3-4x of these. Null rod is slow, inconsistent, and inflexible. It also fails to answer some GY hate in the format (Leyline, Grunt, Faerie, Bog, Wheel, Ground Seal). Stifle, Thoughtseize, Permission, and Grip/Claim are all around better--they are also useful against things other than GY hate, and Null rod is quite limited in this respect. As mentioned, it also opens the deck up to permanent-based hate.


@ Zoo

• Look for explosive hands (into Shroud or Iona on White) or slow hands with lots of protection.
• Run Perish.
• Side out Thoughtseize (the 2 life is too valuable, and the information advantage isn't as necessary) -- Side in Spell pierce. Perhaps Inquisition of Kozilek could be used, as it is very strong in this matchup as well. Obviously, it doesn't replace Thoughtseize in the main though, as we have too many targets above 3cc to hit in general.
• Use Exhume instead of Reanimate when possible.

peace,
4eak

Hey 4eak, thanks for weighing in on my ideas and problems.

Cutting some Frantic Searches: I have already been experimenting with 3 and I surely didn't miss 1. Perhaps 2 is a happy number if you are to run 6 creatures or perhaps a MD sickening dreams?

Null Rod: Your arugments make sense. I usually run 2, and use them as part of an anti hate suite. However, given that QP is so often played that is probably a dumb idea. I guess I should put them away again. I have to admit I am total trash at SBing because IMO this deck is so overpowered I just normally stomp over people regardless of what I do (zoo excluded, and D&T/UW Tempo are tight). I know which way I'm taking the deck (fast combo/slow control) only slightly before they do most of the time.

Zoo: Thanks for the tips.

Regarding your SB: I honestly can't make heads or tails out of what your plan would be given all the singletons. Given that you are taking the deck to a more controllish direction can you put up some sb schemes for matches you feel comfortable weighing in on?

Thanks

4eak, regarding your list: wouldn't it make more sense to run a tutorable Show and Tell instead of a single Careful Study?

@ jazzykat

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Regarding your SB: I honestly can't make heads or tails out of what your plan would be given all the singletons. Given that you are taking the deck to a more controllish direction can you put up some sb schemes for matches you feel comfortable weighing in on?

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I have to admit, I don't think my take is much more controllish than anyone else's. After doing the math (and playtesting), I disagree that Lotus Petal or Dark Ritual (beyond the 1st) actually speeds the deck up. I do believe I'm maximizing the speed of the deck, albeit with as few diminishing returns in the control department as possible. The mystical tutor toolbox, alongside the blue cantrip/permission shell gives us flexibility, without losing much speed. I don't feel games 2/3 are substantially slower, as I very rarely side out relevant combo pieces, but rather they are simply more equipped after sideboarding for more specific situations. I'm usually only siding in 3-5 cards on average.

I totally agree that my SB looks insane/stupid for most Legacy decks. However, I consider it a bit more reasonable for a tutor/wish board. Let me try to explain so I don't look so crazy. =)

My very generic sideboard strategy:

• Identify and board out the less-than-useful (if not outright useless) reanimation targets. I'd wager 2-3 targets (which vary widely from match to match) on average come out.
• Identify and board in the relevant cards against expected opposing GY hate and Stack control (Chalice/CB). These usually are some combination of Stifle/Trickbind/Krosan Grip/Nature's Claim/Hurkyl's Recall. Generically, 1 Stifle/1 Claim.
• Compare the value of Daze/Thoughtseize/Echoing Truth to sideboarded control cards and silverbullets; board accordingly.
• Consider the lifeloss concerns of Reanimate or the symmetry of Exhume--sometimes siding a singleton may be correct. especially if you have a lot to board in.

If you want more details about specific matchups, just ask. I'll give some commentary on my sideboard choices for now:

Spell Pierce:

• Strong substitute where Thoughtseize's lifeloss is bad. I still love to have 1 Thoughtseize (or Duress) in games 2/3, as sometimes I really need to see their hand.
• Very useful in the control role, for example, when we face Storm combo.
• Good against creature-light tempo decks.

Show and Tell:

• When any random creature + minimal protection would win it (and I'm not boarding out many targets).
• Excellent when facing exceptional amounts of disruption.
• Wide range of cards in the main it can substitute, well beyond the usual, such as: Reanimate, Exhume, Ponder and Careful Study.
• Don't board it in against decks which have something awesome to play off it (e.g. Progenitus, etc.)

Extract:

• If resolved, generally an auto-win against plain ANT (they will rarely have Tendrils in hand).
• If possible, Thoughtseize before you go for Extract.
• If Tendrils is in hand, go for IGG (or the most relevant engine available).
• Useless against Burning Wish -- board Extract wisely (never against Red splashed Storm combo)!
• Rarely necessary against NOProg (I don't suggest boarding it in). Decks which rely too heavily upon NOProg combo are almost always raped by Perish.

Perish:

• Generally worth a slot against deck which play Qasali Pridemage + Goyf + at least another Green creature (Noble Hierarch, Wild Nacatl, etc.)
• Pwns Elves (obviously, not a real reason; this is icing on the cake, before you drop Iona or Blazing Archon)
• Answers Progenitus (which can race us)

Krosan Grip (these are going to seem obvious):

• Counterbalance
• Chalice@1 and 2
• Hitting stack control, prison pieces, and GY-hate through permission. This let's you keep your other control cards for either stopping them from directly winning or forcing through your win.
• Run multiples, as many of the pieces it is designed to hit will prevent us from digging for it.

Reverent Silence:

• Very niche card -- but stunning against the decks where it is useful. I could easily see someone not having this in the sideboard.
• Game 3, against Leyline (or if you absolutely know they have Leyline, like a strict Eva Green list)
• Enchantress (especially those which have begun introducing anti-Iona features.)
• Other prison/control decks with Propaganda/Moat/Ghostly Prison/Wheel of Sun and Moon/etc.
• Don't fetch/play a forest card until right before you cast it.

Hurkyl's Recall:

• Multiple artifact GY-hate cards
• Artifact lock components (Chalice, Trinisphere, Smokestack, CoW, Meekstone)
• Considered Rebuild against Chalice@2, but mana denial is too effective and common in decks where this effect is necessary to risk playing a 3cc version.

Nature's Claim:

• The cheapest answer to artifact and enchantment GY hate, and pretty much most of the permanent which worry us will be artifacts/enchantments.
• Destroying is so much better than bouncing in many circumstances.
• Can be cast at any time, requires no preconditions. It is much more versatile than Stifle against GY-hate.

Extirpate:

• Obviously for opposing GY-combos.
• Split second and information advantage (both hand and library) is useful gravy.
• Can make corner-case plays and is acceptable against long-term control battles.

Ravenous Trap:

• I despise the fact that this card telegraphs so much information. Decks which can play around it will. I prefer to have 2 GY hate cards though.
• It is a full GY-sweep, and it is useful where Extirpate may not be.

Sickening Dreams:

• Clears the board and discards creatures.
• Very useful against the swarm-based tempo matches-- Merfolk, D&T, Goblins.
• Another answer to tokens en masse.

Stifle:

• Fills in the gaps that Nature's claim cannot against GY-hate (while also hitting crypt/relic) -- Faerie Macabre for example.
• Quite a versatile card. It has many targets beyond GY-hate.
• Painful in that it must be used at the same time that you force your opponent to use an activated ability (which can be mana intensive).

Trickbind:

• Sometimes paying another mana for the split second is worth it.
• Breaks information symmetry of Mystical tutor better than Stifle.

@ Shabbaman

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wouldn't it make more sense to run a tutorable Show and Tell instead of a single Careful Study?

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It isn't unreasonable at all. You obviously don't need a reanimation spell in this case, plus you can avoid the rare maindeck GY hate.

I still prefer Careful Study. Having a reanimation spell in hand is very rarely a problem (we run 8). Careful study is not dead by itself, and Show and Tell is dead by itself. Careful Study is also very mana efficient. You can combo off 1 or 2 land using Careful Study, but you can't with Show and Tell. Careful Study can also simultaneously dig for cards while pitching your needed target. Show and Tell is also a risk -- it sucks against decks which might have something big to play off it.

Careful study is a much better early game Mystical tutor target, which is what I really want in game 1. Let's say its game 1, I'm on the play, and I keep a reasonable hand with both Mystical tutor and, unfortunately, the exact target that I want in my GY (which I didn't know until I saw what my opponent was playing on his turn 1). With Careful Study in the deck, I'd be in great shape to combo on turn 2 or 2 with Reanimate or Exhume + Land in hand (or in the 2 drawn from Careful study). Mystical for Show and Tell is terrible here, as I'm missing a chance to draw a land (mystical's fault), and I'm unlikely to have 3 land by turn 3. Worse, if the opposing deck has mana denial, I may get to 3-mana far too late. Without Careful Study, and assuming I don't have Brainstorm/Fetch + Entomb, I'd Mystical for Thoughtseize (far inferior play to CStudy) on my own hand before tutoring Show and Tell.

I think Show and Tell is slow and unnecessary for game 1. I think it really shines in games 2 and 3.




peace,
4eak

I don't think you are crazy.
Since you have a more controllish version and slightly slower than mine, I can't see why sickening dreams is worth playing over, for example.

damnation or infest?

The rest of your sideboard makes complete sense with 4 mystical and 3 ponder. Now what I do wonder is why you chose for only 2 graveyard hate cards.

I still prefer the speed of 4 petals and 4 studies and playing 3 iona. ( this will rarely change after boarding, since there are only a very very few matches where iona cannot win the game)

I will never say my build is best, but I always worry a bit that the ponder builds are struggling a lot more against counterbalance. ( i chose this built for GP Madrid because I expected a lot of counterbalance.)


There's one thing I do worry about with your sideboard.
Are you always finding the boarded cards without betraying your hand. like having to search for it too often or not having it when it matters.
I also don't think a 4th ponder is really necessary with that single carefull study replacing the 4th.

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Originally Posted by practical joke

I will never say my build is best, but I always worry a bit that the ponder builds are struggling a lot more against counterbalance..

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I have been running 4x Ponder and 4x Careful Study with zero mana accel for months now and I have yet to have problems with Counterbalance. I do run heavy discard usually between 6-8 post board. Between Force, Daze, Discard and Wipe Away or Rushing River I'm not really worried about Counterbalance at all. The extra draw does mean the deck can never be turn one and in such is less explosive but it has numerous ways to be turn two and is consistantly almost always by turn 3 with 1-2 pieces of disruption.

I admit I have not tested the deck without Ponder in along time but I feel that without the full amount of draw in the deck there would be too many mulligans or "prayer hands" where you are praying something doesn't get countered or that they don't have a removal spell for Archon etc...

@ practical joke

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Since you have a more controllish version and slightly slower than mine....

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I have previously outlined why Lotus Petal is not actually faster. There are only a small percentage of hands which are actually faster using Lotus Petal instead of Land. You lose more speed overall though, as there are opportunity costs to playing mana acceleration instead of Land. Mana acceleration translates into higher mulligan rates, an inability to dig as efficiently or effectively, a lack of resilience to mana denial, and a weaker set of control options.

Not only is mana acceleration not actually making the deck faster, but its benefits are acquired when you need them the least. The situations where mana acceleration actually makes you a turn faster generally occurs when you've already opened godhands (very often becoming win-more). While playing a normal hand (or worse) though, or while playing against opposing control features, mana acceleration is card disadvantage, and often enough, actually tempo disadvantage.

If we are at an impasse, perhaps you would be interested in a simulation.

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I still prefer the speed of 4 petals and 4 studies and playing 3 iona. ( this will rarely change after boarding, since there are only a very very few matches where iona cannot win the game

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I find myself reaching for Iona less than you I suppose (which is why I've moved from my original 3 to 2 instead), and also why I'm less convinced by Careful Study. I think there are plenty of matches where Iona is not the correct choice, even from turn 2 or 3. Don't get me wrong though, it is the best overall target beyond a doubt.

One might think that part of our difference in opinion on speed boils down to how we approach the viability of targets differently. Even if Iona/Study is correct, playing lands will still be faster on average.

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I can't see why sickening dreams is worth playing over, for example...damnation or infest?

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18 land doesn't support it that well. Half the decks I'd want to sweep against are using Wasteland too.

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I will never say my build is best, but I always worry a bit that the ponder builds are struggling a lot more against counterbalance. ( i chose this built for GP Madrid because I expected a lot of counterbalance.)

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I'm really considering adding another Grip, probably for Trickbind.

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There's one thing I do worry about with your sideboard.
Are you always finding the boarded cards without betraying your hand. like having to search for it too often or not having it when it matters.

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For hitting GY-hate, I think my odds of drawing are just as good, and Mystical betrays at roughly the same degree (although, my ability to choose split second cards comes up often enough). There are cases where I prefer to reach for one particular piece of GY-hate instead of another, but my overall chance to grab an answer is generally the same as anyone else's. For hitting singletons, I think Ponder builds still have the best chance not to betray too much. For example, I think I'd be more likely to find my singleton Show and Tell or Extract before your GP deck would.





peace,
4eak

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Originally Posted by practical joke

3. It only puts creatures in the graveyard. Again, this makes little difference; in a reanimator deck, this is usually what you would want to do anyway. On a very rare occasion when ANT is exploding in your face I used entomb to get a Force of will, one misstake they can make when they go off with duress instead of chant.

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Can you explain that a little? I'm not sure why you would want to put a FoW in your graveyard.

Also, I should have pointed out that you aren't actually required to put in all 3 creatures with a Buried Alive spell, the card says "up to" 3 creatures.

I think he means in response to Ill-Gotten Gains, you can Entomb FoW and get Force, blue card, X (Probably Entomb) back.

Has anyone considered a hybridization of Show and Tell and Reanimate/Exhume by using Living Wish. It would obviously slow the deck down, but if it could be crafted in such a way to have minimal dead MD cards we can increase the amount of business,control, or whatever.

Also, we are always concerned about answers to hate. Given my recent misadventures with zoo (and Mono Red Sligh last night) I was also thinking about EE as a way to blow away crypts, relics, nacatls, and/or goyfs.

My gut feeling is that I have to learn how to play the deck better because its raw power may be giving me a false sense of proficiency. That and you often win via blowout (i.e. Ionna turn 2, they have no chance often).

Anyway, I throw the ideas out here because:
I don't believe that Reanimator has been completely optimized
I think it is the most powerful deck in the format in an average to good player's hands (I think AdNT is the best deck, but you must be an incredible pilot)
and on a more personal note:
I love swinging with big dudes, I finally get to have a balance between the competitor and the little kid with a craw wurm (or dinosaur....Terastodon anyone?) fascination that fight in my head all the time.

EE... you can't tutor it. That aside, you have to put a lot of mana in EE to get rid of goyfs. If you're afraid of green creatures you could better run something like Hibernation (tutorable), or perhaps something like Shriekmaw. As far as sweepers go, to get rid of Tarmogoyf right away you need four mana. I can think of some sweepers for four mana that are tutorable. If you can spread the cost over two turns, perhaps you're not as much in a hurry as you thought you were. In that case you can tutor up Hibernation or whatever.

Perhaps it's an idea to see if the old build with zombie infestation and burning wish still works. That should be pretty solid against zoo.

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Originally Posted by Shabbaman

EE... you can't tutor it. That aside, you have to put a lot of mana in EE to get rid of goyfs. If you're afraid of green creatures you could better run something like Hibernation (tutorable), or perhaps something like Shriekmaw. As far as sweepers go, to get rid of Tarmogoyf right away you need four mana. I can think of some sweepers for four mana that are tutorable. If you can spread the cost over two turns, perhaps you're not as much in a hurry as you thought you were. In that case you can tutor up Hibernation or whatever.

Perhaps it's an idea to see if the old build with zombie infestation and burning wish still works. That should be pretty solid against zoo.

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If you're splashing green, Pernicious Deed is THE way to get rid of Goyfs. In fact, it easily gets rid of SDT, Counterbalance, Wild Nacatl, Zombies, Elves, etc, everything, while leaving your fat creatures alone. The only drawback is that it will destroy Animate Dead as well.

Pernicious Deed....
EE is not tutorable, neither is Deed.
EE Costs up to 2 mana if you want to get rid of Goyfs, Deed 3, and then activate....
Both are bad choices, IMHO, because you must run at least 3 in your SB to find them easily (without tutors), they need a lot of mana and they die to Qasali, Grip etc...

Perish is great versus Zoo, I only have 1 and should add the second to my SB. Tutorable and easy to cast, especially if you play rituals...

You can destroy their dudes and then reanimate some goyf 4/5. That's funny :P

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Originally Posted by Davetradint

EE Costs up to 2 mana if you want to get rid of Goyfs, Deed 3, and then activate....
Both are bad choices, IMHO, because you must run at least 3 in your SB to find them easily (without tutors), they need a lot of mana and they die to Qasali, Grip etc...

Perish is great versus Zoo, I only have 1 and should add the second to my SB. Tutorable and easy to cast, especially if you play rituals...

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But the thing about Deed is that it destroys everything below the mana you put in it. For example, while EE would destroy Goyf and CB, Deed will destroy Goyf, CB, SDT, Mongoose, Kird Ape, Nacatl, Pithing Needle, etc. I just think that if you already splash in Green for Grip, you might as well use it for something else as well.

Perish is good too, but remember to watch out for your own green creatures (Empyrial Archangel, possilby Hellkite Overlord)

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Originally Posted by 4eak

Extract:
[LIST][*]Useless against Burning Wish -- board Extract wisely (never against Red splashed Storm combo)!

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I beg to disagree, but since M10 was released, the "wish cards" works only with your side cards, cause now if a card is exiled it's still in one of the games zone - 10/1/2009: You can't acquire exiled cards because those cards are still in one of the game's zones. - so is not a problem agains t ANT with red splash or any red combo.

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Originally Posted by Folkien

I beg to disagree, but since M10 was released, the "wish cards" works only with your side cards, cause now if a card is exiled it's still in one of the games zone - 10/1/2009: You can't acquire exiled cards because those cards are still in one of the game's zones. - so is not a problem agains t ANT with red splash or any red combo.

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I think he meant that due to Wish they can just wish for the copy of the extracted card in the sb-Tendril- and not the zone itself . At least that is what i assumed.

Has anyone tried Fleshbag in the mirror opposed to Gilded Drake? I am having a hard time battling thru main deck Relics esp game 1 think 2 SnT main will do the trick(my sb is green splash 18 land)? Null Rod seems better to me than destroying a single copy.