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Wait, I think I wasn't accurate with my question
I know how this works and I know that DC never hts the gy, but what is the ruling's number/paragraph? I looked through the Comprules and F4ed all the "replacement" placements, but I still couldn't put my finger on the exact sentence that would confirm my words.
614.1 should cover it. The event of 'being put in a graveyard' is completely replaced by 'shuffle into library'.
Thanks! I must have missed that!Quote:
Originally Posted by evilGod
Hello i've decided to try MUD deck,the variant i liked more was the 12post one So here is my Incomplete list( There are some cards that are must).
Land [24]
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 City of Traitors
4 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
Artifact [14]
4 Trinisphere
1 Staff of Domination
4 Chalice of the Void
1 Staff of Nin
4 Grim Monolith
Creature [17]
4 Metalworker
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
1 Sundering Titan
4 Lodestone Golem
3 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Blightsteel Colossus
This leaves me with 5 cards to mess around, anyone got suggestions?, anyway i had some cards in mind.
- myr battlesphere, Phyrexian metamorph, Tanglewire, Lightning greaves etc.
I'd include at least 1 Steel Hellkite, especially in the Forgemaster lists where you can tutor it up. With TNN around, Hellkite provides an answer + mana sink for all at 12 Post mana.
Thanks i forgot him.
No prob. A Spine of Ish Shah would probably be useful too.
'Nother MUD noob here. I was finally able to obtain the cards I needed at GPDC and I've been playtesting with multiple builds. All of my testing has been exclusively with the mainboard. I'll construct a sideboard once I'm satisfied with the mainboard. The mainboard is as follows:
1 Blightsteel Colossus
4 Kuldotha Forgemaster
4 Lodestone Golem
4 Metalworker
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Sundering Titan
4 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Grim Monolith
2 Lightning Greaves
2 Mox Diamond
1 Spine of Ish Sah
1 Staff of Domination
3 Trinisphere
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
4 Cloudpost
4 Glimmerpost
4 Vesuva
4 Wasteland
Although I'm quite content with this for the most part, there are still some cards I'm iffy on.
Blightsteel Colossus: Although I like the Colossus, I'm wondering if it's even necessary for the deck to function. While I've killed plenty of people off of Forgemaster into Colossus + Greaves, it seems very win-more.
Staff of Domination: Again, it doesn't feel necessary. I've never been excited by the utility it offers, and Staff infinites have been few and far between for me. This might just be better as Staff of Nin.
Wurmcoil Engine: The fourth one seems like another case of win-more syndrome. Perhaps this should a Staff of Nin as well.
Vesuva: It's necessary, but it feels so bad to have a two land hand with this and either Cloudpost or, even worse, City of Traitors. Perhaps cutting a fourth Vesuva for a 1-of utility land or another artifact would be correct?
Any thoughts would welcomed.
Blightsteel: I'm also in a love-hate relationship with this guy. I've killed plenty of people by Forging him out but sometimes it feels really bad to draw him/inappropriate to tutor for him (StP, Phantasmal Image even.) I played a list without him last night and felt fine with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheDarkshineKnight
Staff: I feel the same about Staff as I do about Blightsteel. It could be a fine mana sink in the Post lists though.
Wurmcoil: I've never played more than 3. I'm a very strong believer of Steel Hellkite.
Vesuva: Ever kept a hand of Vesuva + City of Traitors on the play? I really don't know if having the full set of 12 is correct so I cut down to 11. So far its been working perfectly fine.
Also: I do not know about the Mox Diamonds. It seems a little counter intuitive with all the Loci you're trying to put into play, and it's even worse when you have Trinisphere out. I don't know if it's worth the possibility of the extra turn 1 boost or not. I could be wrong.
Had my worst performance with the deck last night. I finally tried out the Tangle Wires and they're just fantastic against a good number of decks (couldn't do nothin' about Dredge though... sigh). I have 4 Chalice 3 Trinispheres main and 2 Thorns in the SB. With huge mana sources like powered Loci and Metalworker, it's not uncommon you get to do unfair things while you're opponent is playing draw-go under Wires, Spheres, cups, and Lodestones. I ran Forge-less, and I wonder if that was incorrect. I had plenty of extra lock pieces lying around and felt that they should have turned into Sundering Titans or something like that.
in a 12post list how mnany tanglewire should be optimal?
Three to four, depending on your build. Mine was a little threat light, I'm going to have to tinker with my list tonight.
Very rough list of what i wanted to test. Some thoughts about this deck
With sphere and thorns i don't miss trinisphere. Spheres / thorns are better in multiples than trinispheres.
12 post lands generate enough mana to play around spheres and thorns.
Chalice was originally not it the deck and only in the SB.
I'm considering taking it back out in favor of Goblin welder. If I did that I'd want to drop some city's / tombs / wastelands for mountains / great furnace.
wasteland is good only for locking the opponent out with crucible and might not be the best option here.
tangle wire in many cases is a time walk for 1-3 turns.
I wish i could play 16 lodestone golems. Since I can't i put in metamorphs
Forgemaster may have a home in here as well as batter skull.
all is dust is terrible with spheres / thorns
because the spheres / thorns slow the opponent down, it means that you don't have to be as explosive. This means you can cut metal worker / monolith for consistency.
I'll add more thoughts later.
4 Tangle Wire
4 Sphere of Resistance
4 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Lodestone Golem
2 Crucible of Worlds
1 Mox Opal
4 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Bottled Cloister
3 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Steel Hellkite
3 All Is Dust <--- not good with spheres / thorns
3 Chalice of the Void
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
3 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost
In my current playtesting 4. Though that dances down to 3 sometimes as I don't wanna see it in my opening hand. Its great in multiples mid-late game, though I also run a couple of Metamorphs.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorker
If your running a couple of Crucible, why not have Mox Diamond instead of Opal. You can discard an opening hand Vesuva when you only have Sol Lands.Quote:
Originally Posted by apple713
Also if you're planing on cutting Chalice, why not replace All is Dust with Ratchet Bomb/Powder Keg. It's great in taking down anything that comes before any of your resistors.
since i've got 5 free slots - 3 tanglewire, leaves me 2 slots open.
Likely candidates: 1 steel hellkite, 1 myr battlesphere
Tried out the 12 post Version of MUD at a small tournament.....observations.
-Blightsteel does kinda suck drawing it but it literally won me games via Forgemaster. Actually accounted for almost all my wins.
-Only played one Steel Hellkite and wished I had more. The thing with the deck is it has many lock pieces and that's great. But once something lands, it's probably gonna stay on board. With Hellkite I managed to kill 2 Dark Confidants and 1 Pyromancer. Again, probably a playstyle choice wanting removal, since I'm usually a Deadguy Ale/Junk kind of player but Hellkite was awesome.
-Sundering Titan was ok, but not great. How do you guys find it? Also, when I could tutor with Forgemaster, the card I got by far was Blightsteel Colossus. I compare it to Elves.....in terms of Natural Order. At one point, Elf decks had Craterhoof Behemoth and Regal Force as the big tutor targets (and sometimes Progenitus). Drawing a ton of cards is good obviously but Overrun for the win is usually better. I like blowing up lands but getting the Colossus I found to be the better option.
-I didn't care about opposing wasteland for the most part. Which is nice. If anything, it sets them back which is more awesome.
-I also didn't care too much that Metalworker gets killed on site. At some points in testing, a single Cloudpost taps for 5 mana.
What card draw do you guys like? Staff of Domination? Staff of Nin? Bottled Cloister? I found often that I was in Top deck mode. LOL, I even looked up on Gatherer for other options. Best I could come up with is Mind's Eye, a card only played in Commander. But hey, if your opponent Brainstorms or uses Sylvan Library, you draw 3 cards. :D
Temporal aperture?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin
Maybe Dreamstone Hedrone?Quote:
Originally Posted by Cacks
@ Hellkite is also awesome because it can be used as a mana sink. There's something about swinging with 10/5 flying guy that can nuke your opponent's board.
@ Draw engine you probably don't need one. Just keep playing resistors. Sure you can't dig through your library but your opponent still can't cast anything.
@ Wilkin: do you play at Friendly Troll at North York?
Yeah I sometimes play there. It's great, get to try out new Legacy decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by (nameless one)
Adding a 2nd Staff of Domination, and making it only 3 Forgemasters. I find 4 is a bit much considering none of the lands in my build are artifacts (trying the 12 post version). But I really like the fact opposing wastelands aren't much of an issue.
Bottled cloister is best. You dont really wanna play cards that draw you more cards unless you have nothing else to play. So this is the perfect xhoice for an empty hand. The draw back is irrelevnt because the deck doesnt play instants. Typically you just play your hand out so theres nothing to exile at eot. The other options are more mana intensive. I think 2-3 is the right number because you want to draw one but only after youve emptied your hand. If you want a digging card sdt is available but not great cause there are no shuffle effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilkin