[Deck] BUG "Shardless" Control

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fox

Given ETB of Stryx and cascade of Shardless, isn't Rite of Undoing a better fit than DTT? Doubles as Murderous Cut (hitting any nonland perm) with any discard effect as well.

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If you have to pair it with a Thoughtseize it's not really doubling as a Murderous Cut, is it? And if you mean Liliana then that's negated if they have any other cards in hand. Rite seems completely different to DTT.

I've found the delve cards (Tasi and DTT) unnecessary. Obviously they're powerful, but they don't really bring anything needed to the deck - we have so much CA already. And unlike tempo decks we're not wanting to burn through cantrips and fill the GY, the best Brainstorm is the one not played in Shardless. I'd prefer to have a streamlined deck where I can cast my cards on time.

This is what I have together at the moment. Clique, Hymns and SB K Grip are concessions to Omni.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Vendilion Clique

4 Ancestral Vision
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Life from the Loam
2 Hymn to Tourach

4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay

2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Wasteland
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Underground Sea
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs

SB
1 Scrubland
4 Meddling Mage
1 Null Rod
2 Duress
2 Thoughtseize
2 Leyline of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
1 Night of Souls Betrayal
1 Krosan Grip

I only picked this deck up about 3 months ago, but agree that the delve spells aren't worth it. this list I've been finding to be the most successful over the past few weeks. my local meta is lots of delver mostly grixis but we have all flavors, miracles, few snt decks, few blade lists, then random stuff

4 drs
4 goyf
4 agent
2 strix

4 bstorm
4 vision
4 decay
3 force
2 thoughtsieze
2 hymn
2 lili
2 jace
1 deluge

4 catacombs
3 misty
2 delta
3 sea
2 trop
2 waste
2 creepypit
1 bayou
1 savannah
1 forest
1 swamp

sb:
4 mage
2 thoughtseize
2 disfigure
2 charm
1 sylvan
1 rod
1 needle
1 pulse
1 cage/spellbomb

sb mileage may vary but I can see argument for loam/clique/nosb/grip

I personally like the cheap action

hey folks,

been testing a lot in the past few weeks and here is my current state of development... and below some thoughts and explanations.

Creatures

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix

Instant and Sorceries

4 Abrupt Decay
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Toxic Deluge
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Ancestral Vision

Planeswalker

3 Liliana of the Veil

Lands

2 Bayou
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Swamp
1 Forest

Sideboard

3 Thoughtseize
2 Engineered Plague
2 Krosan Grip
4 Leyline of the Void
4 Iona, Shield of Emeria

I played some Leejay build before and did pretty average with it. First of all i felt pretty weak in all tempo Matchups due to having wastelands and an overload for Decay Targets. Even if u dont play strix and hymn, adding wastelands makes it even easier to cut u off from certain colors, whereas wastelands do miserable against all those daze decks. Who am I to judge Leejay, absolutely no one, im just speaking about my personal experiences! Additionally I felt like there wasnt enough cardadvantage going on anymore, without strix, without hymn, etc it all comes down to visions only. So I went a more traditional Route and brought Strixes and Hymn back, which aligns perfectly with the changed manabase. Additionally Strix is Great against all kind of Delver decks. At this point it was a pretty classic list, only the 2 deluges Main were some kind of novelty towards the older Lists. I really feel very comfortable in the "fair" matchups with this Setup. Even after Game 1 there is not much boarding required. People may argue that strix and deluge isnt great in the same 60, but in my experience there is no problem at all. Strix ofter buys time in early game stages, gives a suitable anwser to fatties and Delver, and even if u have to deluge it to death, it replaced itself. And i love seeing my Strix being decayed or bolted, which happens really often, thats one more goyf surviving or 3 damage less to the face.

After that i went full retard on the sideboard, No, i am not talking about Iona...yet... First of all I was testing a full playset of Leyline of the Void. I felt like Reanimator and especially Lands (which really seems to be thing right now) are close to unwinnable Matchups. Well, with the Playset of Lotv this changed. Colleteral damage was done to the obvious, even if not that relevant Matchup Dredge, but nethertheless i didnt lose against ANT Storm since then. If you shut down their Graveyard and bring in the Full Discard Package, plus the 4 forces that already are in the Mainboard, ANT is having a really hard time to get anything going. So Through 4 SB Slots i could massively improve 4 pretty bad Matchups. The only problem i had, Playing Leyline and Tarmogoyf really eats up some velocity. Since there are close to 0 Karakas in the current Meta, i added two copies of tasigur to the maindeck and cut one goyf. So far im really happy about that change, having a more graveyard independent clock is awesome and he can generate some lategame value as well. Especially as 95%of the Meta seem to play DTT and leave no fuel for Goyf regularly. Most of the times i can cast Tasigur for one Mana anyway - and hes Decay proof which is nice in the BUG Matchup as well.

As i said before, i was fine with the fair Matchups so far, through the Leylines 3 Combo Matchups + Lands significantly improved. So i had 11 SB Slots left, i dedicated three of them to Thoughtseize, just to be able to board in that more precise discard if neccesary. The Hymns in the maindeck are good against combo as well to a certain degree, but they are primarily in the maindeck to generate card advantage.

8 SB Slots left. I needed some Silver bullet against elves, even though i have 2 main deluges thats not enough since they are able to recover too damn quick. So i added 2 Engineered Plagues, which are obviously great against any kind of tribal deck, but i also board it in regularly against all kind of Pyromancer abusing decks. Depending of the board state u can either name human, which turns down Pyromancer and unflipped delvers as well, if the army already arised you can name elemental, and many of those decks do play some TNN as well. Having more anwsers for TNN then 2 Deluges is always great. At this point there are 6 Slots left.

The rational way to approach this now, would be adding meddling mages + scrubland, which looks great against Omnitell for example. But after some testing i discovered pretty quickly that they have tons of ways to play around Meddling Mage and the Matchup still sucks even if you bring in all the possible hate. Either way u do it, naming cunning wish or SnT, they always find a way to play around... At this point i really went full retard and i am testing Iona right now. Most Omnitell Players expect cards like meddling mage and board hate against it, Iona naming blue on the other hand can just win u games straight away. It isnt a free win this way neither, and sometimes they see it in time through their Probes, but it is by far the best possibilty to improve this Matchup i found so far. Sure, they can Still SnT into Emrakul, but this doesnt neccesarily mean a loss, u still have liliana´s -2 or if u have enough permanents even a strix can block Emrakul to death... Even in case they saw Iona before, as long as it means that they wont go off SnT cause they dont have Emrakul im fine with that anyway. I know, this choice looks completely stupid, but Omnitell is a big thing right now, and simply by hoping to avoid it aint the best plan. If you have any opinions on this, even i u think this is completely stupid, feel free to share them.

So there were 2 Slots left, i thought Krosan Grip might be a useful addition against Miracles and all kind of Equipment decks. Maybe a split with Null rod would be doing great in this slot, would help against MUD as well. Anyway i feel pretty confident against mud anyway.

Its late, ive been playing magic all day long, if my text is hard to read im sorry, im just tired and wanted to share my 0,02$ ;)

PS: just a random thought at the end, the increased Creature Count also feels great against all kind of control decks like miracles cause u dont run out of creatures so quickly

Anyone going to GP Lille?

In a sick way I'm hoping all the top 8 are running DTT.
This causes Wizards to ban it.

Don't get me wrong I do like playing DTT, just not in this deck or against a deck running it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Holiday

Anyone going to GP Lille?

In a sick way I'm hoping all the top 8 are running DTT.
This causes Wizards to ban it.

Don't get me wrong I do like playing DTT, just not in this deck or against a deck running it.

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exactly my thougts! i play DTT mysefl and find it very unbalanced! hope the ban happen soon!

I do not mind DTT being available, though its ban would bring the power back to Chains of Mephistopheles (and discard), thus making my another deck Jund more powerful, so I will be happy either way. Anyway, when the next B&R announcement is going to happen?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DOM

I do not mind DTT being available, though its ban would bring the power back to Chains of Mephistopheles (and discard), thus making my another deck Jund more powerful, so I will be happy either way. Anyway, when the next B&R announcement is going to happen?

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Each B&R announcement happens in concert with new sets being released, so next announcement will be on July 13.

So are many people back on Shardless right now? It seems decent time post TC. Our combo game is weak but not unwinnable, and we have a great miracles match up. I've been having pretty good success lately.

so, finally returned from GP Lille, was some kind of journey cause we drove by car (approx 900km one direction).

Anyway... Played Shardless and went 7-0-2 Day 1 and 10-0-5 Overall resulting in Place 107 out of 1573.

This was was the list i finally settled for the evening before the main Event. Tried different completely different things at the Trials, but none of them worked out as they should.

Maindeck:

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Shardless Agent
2 Baleful Strix

4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Force of Will
1 Disfigure

3 Ancestral Vision
4 Thoughtseize

1 Sylvan Library

3 Liliana of the Veil

1 Umezawa's Jitte

4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
1 Tropical Island
2 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Swamp
1 Forest
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard:

1 Surgical Extraction
4 Meddling Mage
1 Scrubland
1 Null Rod
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Toxic Deluge
1 Engineered Plague

Those were the Matchups i played, wrote them down after each match:

Round 1: ANT - Won 2:1
Round 2: ANT - Won 2:1
Round 3: BUG Delver - Won 2:0
Round 4: Miracles - Lost 1:2
Round 5: ANT - Won 2:1
Round 6: Miracles - Lost 0:2
Round 7: Grixis Delver - Won 2:1
Round 8: Omnitell - Won 2:1
Round 9: Omnitell - Won 2:1

Ended day 1 with 7-0-2

Round 10: Burg Delver - Lost 0:2
Round 11: Infect - Lost 0:2
Round 12: Sneak Show - Lost 1:2
Round 13: Goblins - Won 2:1
Round 14: Elves - Won 2:0
Round 15: BUG Delver - Won 2:1

Ended with 10-0-5 on 107th.

Could tell stories about nearly every Round, but im too tired and going to bed soon... 2 Things I´d like to add anyway. Day 2 I lost every single dice roll, which definetely isnt the best way to get through the rounds , but thats just more a nice to know information then whining :D

Having lost twice to miracles simply was my fault, i wasnt sure how to board and piloted it straight against the wall. One specific Game ended up with some bad luck as i cascaded 3 times into abrupt decay onto an empty Board, even my opponent admitted that he won that game by luck only since he even was in topdeck mode, but anyway - All in all it was a major piloting error by me, cause i boarded wrong and didnt have enough experience in the specific Matchup. Learn to recognize weak spots and deal with them, i need more training in that specific Matchup...

having no Wasteland, but only 21 lands including basics felt very smooth. The only Matchup where i was missing the wastelands was Infect, but the Strix is super strong in this Matchup as well - if u find any... ;)

The Combo Matchups were pretty solid as well, playing 4 Hymns, 4 Thoughtseize, 4 Mages and a surgical postboard... who wouldve guessed. In fact i was on the road to victory Round 12, Game 3 against Sneak Show as well (Which wouldve resulted in all combo Matchups Won), but sometimes ur simply not meant to win. I kept a hand of double thoughtseize double Mage, thoughtseized him twice, played the Mages on Sneak Attack and Show and Tell, Found even a third one and played it on Pyroblast cause i saw some Game 2, and on his last turn before the mages woudl have pinged him to death, after he had been idling for several turns (not even cantripping, he had only dead handcards) he topdecked through the breach and emrakul knocked me to death. Well, thats Magic i guess :laugh:

Against all the Tempo decks, i went straight for the basics first to deny Wastelands, and dodged all bloodmoons possible from red decks - it worked out 95% of the time and they ended up with dead handcards, cause especially BUG Delver Decks like to keep Wasteland heavy hands and ends up with more or less dead handcards, at least it heavily disturbs their game plan and if u have DRS its even better. From that point of view i was really doing fine.

The Jitte in the Main simply won me some games on its own, even if its only a random one off, against all kind of aggro, delver, pyromancer stuff it is simply a bomb if it connects once. And it even gives u a slight - even if not big - chance to stand a chance even against burn (Beaten Burn in the trials). Really loved the Jitte! The library as well allowed me to go over the top in some games, sadly i couldnt get it online in the most important matchups like miracles. But anyway, its an absolutely great card in this 60 i think. Abuse it to setup cascades, find pieces and if u want to steamroll ur opponent draw some cards as well.

as i said the list felt really smooth and ill have further tries on it and focus a little on training the miracles Matchup. My intention was to improve my maindeck configuration against all kind of Tempo decks, that used to steamroll me with the usual jace, Deluge, wasteland builts, before i could stabilize the game. This all came at the price of sacrificing some lategamepower, which nevertheless still is quite awesome. If there was one card i really feared and lost againt the most times, it was Dig Through Time. I had several games where i brought my enemy into the sweet spot (Topdeck mode, no relevant boardstate and Liliana on my Side) and a single DTT from the Top simply changed gears, its just annoying, but there is nothing u can really do about it. You either have the Force or u just dont... sadly enough.

So far the short resume of my GP impressions!

Last weekend I participated in a 32 person SCG IQ and Shardless came through again.

The Deck:

Creatures: 12

4x Shardless Agent
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Deathrite Shaman

Spells: 21

4x Ancestral Vision
4x Brainstorm
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Force of Will
3x Thoughtseize
1x Toxic Deluge
1x Sylvan Library

PlanesWalkers: 5

3x Liliana of the Veil
2x Jace, The Mind Sculptor

Lands: 22

4x Polluted Delta
2x Misty Rainforest
4x Verdant Catacombs
3x Underground Sea
2x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
3x Wasteland
1x Swamp
1x Creeping Tar Pit

Sideboard: 15

2x Hymn to Tourach
1x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger’s Cage
1x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Golgari Charm
2x Chill
1x Null Rod
1x Pithing Needle
1x Submerge
2x Baleful Strix
1x Toxic Deluge


My most recent builds had a single Tasigur and a single Dig Through Time, both of which have been dropped. I think a lot of people around here are realizing the same thing I did that delving just for some card quality or a beatstick just isn't worth it. We've got better card quality, better beatsticks, and better card advantage tools. Besides, we want to keep our deck as business dense as possible. I'm a bit scared of ANT and Show and Tell, so I found it necessary to make room for 3 whole Thoughtseizes on top of the standard 4 Force of Wills. As a result the great Baleful Strix shows up only in the sideboard, as it's too good against the ever-present delver decks to leave home without.

0-0
Round 1 vs Burn: Game 1 turn 1 I get Lavaspiked ouch. Pretty hopeless matchup right from the start and ofcourse I've got the double Thoughtseize draw. I use one on my turn 1 to maybe save a point or two of damage. It reveals a bunch of lands with fireblast and a lightning bolt, so I'm lucky he got a bad hand. I take the blast and he can't draw enough gas to kill me. Game 2 I drop a Chill turn 2 and he get's stalled on 2 lands the whole game, never casting another spell, GG. I know I'm running good when I beat burn first round of my last two sactioned events . 2-0

1-0
Round 2 vs Esper Control brew: This guy's deck is interesting, as it is playing counterbalance, top, jace, Phyrexian dreadnaught, Stifle, and Hushwing Gryff. Turns out abrupt decay is a beating against this deck, especailly when you hit the gryff with it in response to Dreadnaught on the stack. 2-0

2-0
Round 3 vs 4 Color Delver w/ stifles: Game 1 seems easy, as he's forced to use his Stifles on my Ancestral Visions and I get to fetch my lands freely. I one for one all his threats and then my Planeswalkers take over. Game 2 I have not much action, but he drops no threats turn 1 and I force of will his turn 2 Young Pyromancer, then resolve my turn 2 Sylvan Library. The game was still close, but it came down to me using Golgari Charm (only card in hand) to regenerate my Tarmogoyf in response to Murderous Cut (his only card in hand after a brainstorm). He was stunned and then goyf beat face for the win. 2-0

3-0
Round 4 vs Mud: ID. We play 2 games for fun and I get crushed.

3-0-1
Round 5 vs Elves: ID. We play 2 games for fun and I get crushed.

3-0-2
Good enough for 3rd place in the final standings, on to Top 8. I make it known that I have no intention of prize splitting at any point during the elimination rounds.

Round 1 vs Elves: Same guy I drew with earlier. Game 1 I can't keep up with the threats and he Natural Order's turn 3 for a Ruric Thar that I cannot answer. This time I get to sideboard though, and after sideboard I'm basically wrath.dec with 2x Golgari Charm, 2x Toxic Deluge, 3x Liliana, 4x Abrupt decay. In each of the next two games I wrath his board a few times, and drop the Grafdigger's cage to seal the deal.

Round 2 vs Death and Taxes: Game 1 he's on the play and gets the Vial, Wasteland, Thalia draw and just runs me over. After Sideboard I once again transform into wrath.dec and the matchup becomes much harder for him. In game 2 it was like turn 1 Mother of Runes, Turn 2 Thalia, Turn 3 Mangara of Condor right into my EOT Golgari charm then drop Jace into empty board, so sick. Game 3 more of the same slaughtering of small white creatures.

Round 3 vs Mud: Same guy I drew with earlier. Game 1 I'm developing a pretty sweet board with DRS, Lili, and Jace, but then Ugin comes down and totally turns the game around with a wipe of my board. I realized at this point that my sideboard is not equipped for this matchup, and I don't really have any good options (Nullrod, maybe Hymn, maybe maybe Pithing Needle), and I really don't want take anything out. I end up taking out some thoughtseizes and the Toxic Deluge which ends up being a mistake, as game 2 is long and drawn out with him having a bunch of threats that I can only really deal with one at a time. I maybe could've won the game if I had toxic deluge still in the deck.

So, 2nd place overall, and I was pretty dissapointed. I came in expecting to win, and I had convinced myself I was going to, but MUD was the best deck in the room, and he knew how to play it. The thoughtseizes seem to be the weak link this time around, and they were sideboarded out every match, but it's not like I knew I wouldn't be facing any combo decks this tourney. Maybe if I went to another event at this location I'd jam those strixes back in and move the discard to the sideboard. Live and learn.

I've been back and forth between Shardless and various Delver decks recently, but I think I've found a very robust sideboard plan for the combo matchup. Let me know what you guys think.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Baleful Strix

4 Brainstorm
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

4 Force of Will
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Thoughtseize
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Underground Sea
2 Tropical Island
2 Bayou
2 Creeping Tar Pit
2 Wasteland
1 Swamp
2 Misty Rainforest

Sideboard

3 Leyline of the Void
2 Duress
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Disfigure
2 Sphere of Resistance
1 Golgari Charm
1 Null Rod
1 In the Eye of Chaos
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal

The typical sideboard plan for Omni and Storm is:

-4 Tarmogoyf
-4 Abrupt Decay
-1 Baleful Strix
-1 Toxic Deluge
-1 Maelstrom Pulse

+2 Duress
+2 Hymn to Tourach
+2 Sphere of Resistance
+1 In the Eye of Chaos (Omni)/Null Rod (Storm)
+1 Golgari Charm
+3 Leyline of the Void

The Leyline count is flexible- against Omni you definitely want all three, but for ANT/TES I prefer 1-2 since they usually go for a Past in Flames kill, but it's a terrible topdeck before you've gotten into grinding mode if you don't open on it. If I'm bringing fewer Leylines in, I start by bringing in In the Eye of Chaos instead, then I add Strix back, and finally a Goyf if zero Leylines seems right. The basic idea is that you want all of your cascades in postboard games to either be disruption (Hymn, Thoughtseize, Duress, Sphere, Null Rod) or draw you into disruption (Vision, Brainstorm). You can still hit Deathrite, and while it's a suboptimal hit in most cases, you need the acceleration, he's a clock, and he provides additional disruption by picking at their yard. Golgari Charm is also an optional inclusion, but it handles the various sideboard man plans while killing Xantid Swarm and blowing up Omniscience.

Why not meddling mage? It just seems more powerful across more matchups. Leylines are sweet, but agaisnt omni specifically you almost need to have them in your opening hand for them to be good. I think.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LarsLeif

Why not meddling mage? It just seems more powerful across more matchups. Leylines are sweet, but agaisnt omni specifically you almost need to have them in your opening hand for them to be good. I think.

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Spreading the five SB slots taken by Meddling Mages + Savannah (and I've seen some lists with seven white slots, adding Swords and Ethersworn Cannonist as singletons) out covers more matchups more fully and does so without giving up a sideboard slot for a Land, supporting a fourth color postboard, or making your sideboard cards vulnerable to creature removal. The only matchup where I've ever thought Meddling Mage was the bee's knees is Miracles, and I have no interest in effectively dedicating five sideboard slots to that matchup, even if those slots have acceptable utility in other matchups. Sphere and Mage have exactly the same effect against Omni - each forces them to go off in a roundabout way - but In the Eye of Chaos has a similar effect while also being an asymmetric bomb against other blue decks. As for Leyline - it's true that it's a lousy topdeck against Omni, but so are Planar Void and Nihil Spellbomb after turn 2-3 (when they cast their first Dig). So you end up trading the ability to cycle and extract marginal midgame value by maybe slowing down a second pre-combo Dig for random blowouts (Leyline is extremely powerful in an opening hand) and raising the probability that your Cascades find the real business.

Hello ya'll with not a shard to call your own! This is the list I have been running with very good success in both 2-mans on MODO as well as (very competitive) FNMs:

* Some interesting notes!: 23 lands due to a lot of land destruction in meta (local meta has 8 or 9 top 8-scg open players, pretty great scene to level-up in!). One Jace is due to REB being so prevalent and is a decision that has really performed. Hitting your land drops cannot be overstated. If you lose with this deck, you lost with five cards in your hand and an Ancestral suspended.

Lands: (23)
4 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Creeping Tar Pit
3 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest

Creatures: (14)
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent

Non-Creature Spells: (23)
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of t he Veil
2 Thoughtseize
3 Force of Will
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
4 Abrupt Decay

Sideboard: (15)
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Disfigure
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Thoughtseize
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle
1 Dread of Night (complete swing slot)

*** Sideboard Notes ***
Leyline of the Void has been a complete all-star lately. You don't bring it in against decks that have only two digs, but you bring it in against the heavy delvers. It also obviously pulls duty against Storm, Lands, Aggro Loam, Re-Animator, Dredge, etc.

the Dread of Night is a swing slot, it's been good against DnT, Maverick and the Mentor Control lists popping up.

the Pithing needle can be a second Null Rod if you find yourself playing against a lot of Storm (or not Knight of Reliquary/ Mom/ Wasteland decks)

*** ***

Really performed for me going 16-2 (matches) in the last two days on MODO as well as 4-0, 3-1, 2-2 (extreme pilot error 'ok' (spell resolved), and a combo loss [imo virtual 3-1]) in the last 3 local events.

Hey all. I have the stuff to build this and the delver version but I'm torn on which I should play. We only get one legacy tourny a month here so I can't get consistent practice. My meta is pretty all over the place now. 2-4 miricles, 2-3 omni, American delver, 4 color delver, 2-3 dnt 3-4 merfolk, esper deathblade bug delver, shardless, 2 jund and others I can't remember off the top.

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by btm10

Spreading the five SB slots taken by Meddling Mages + Savannah (and I've seen some lists with seven white slots, adding Swords and Ethersworn Cannonist as singletons) out covers more matchups more fully and does so without giving up a sideboard slot for a Land, supporting a fourth color postboard, or making your sideboard cards vulnerable to creature removal. The only matchup where I've ever thought Meddling Mage was the bee's knees is Miracles, and I have no interest in effectively dedicating five sideboard slots to that matchup, even if those slots have acceptable utility in other matchups. Sphere and Mage have exactly the same effect against Omni - each forces them to go off in a roundabout way - but In the Eye of Chaos has a similar effect while also being an asymmetric bomb against other blue decks. As for Leyline - it's true that it's a lousy topdeck against Omni, but so are Planar Void and Nihil Spellbomb after turn 2-3 (when they cast their first Dig). So you end up trading the ability to cycle and extract marginal midgame value by maybe slowing down a second pre-combo Dig for random blowouts (Leyline is extremely powerful in an opening hand) and raising the probability that your Cascades find the real business.

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I won't say that you are wrong in your assessments, but some notes on what you wrote:

1. Meddling Mage being vulnerable to creature removal is often a moot point as most combo list pack very few cards with that type of effect and meddling mage isn't meant to be an unanswerable threat/lockpeice, but is there to slow the opposing deck down enough for you to get your game going.

2. I think meddling mage has a lot of "bees-nees matchups", but I have never boarded it against miracles and probably never will. It surprises me that you think it is a good card against a deck with terminus, plows, REBs and monastery mentor/snapcaster mage. Haven't tested them though, so that is only my on paper-impression. An important factor overall with the MM-package is that you diversify your hate. Running too much discard makes combo-decks that can topdeck their way out of situations a bad matchup for example.

3. The extra land is pretty useful against decks that attack the manabase like D&T, Delver and Lands/4c Loam, so I wouldn't call it a wasted slot exactly.

Hey ya'll. Just picked up top 8 in a ~60 person legacy tournament with Shardless. A pretty good possibility for an even stronger finish but first match in the top 8 I gave myself a game loss for having golgari charm maindeck against DnT. I'll post a deck list as well as mini-tourney report. 23 lands including 3 basics was amazing all day, tombstalker was amazing all day. Rational is if I'm going to take power away from the tarmogoyfs, I'm going to at least have a flying goyf out of the deal (as opposed to dig). He's also bad against white like Tarmo, so he goes out for the second clique in a lot of those match ups. We don't want to be graveyard-centric in Rest in Peace matchups.

Main:
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Force of Wll
4 Shardless Agent
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Ancestral Vision
2 Hymn to Tourach
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Baleful Strix
1 Dig Through Time
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Tombstalker
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Vendilion Clique
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Wasteland
1 Tropical Island
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
3 Leyline of the Void
2 Disfigure
2 Night of Soul’s Betrayal
2 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Null Rod
1 Pithing Needle

===============

Round 1: vs Miracles on the draw

My opponent has top 8'd multiple SCG Opens. Solid player, good guy. I was pleased to see Miracles as I think it's a good matchup.

Game One, I had no lands and shipped to 6. Two lands, Deathrite, Shardless, Brainstorm, Ancestral.
Turn 1 deathrite got plowed. turn 2 he put a top out I suspended visions. turn 3 I played a shardless into a brainstorm, my opponent plowed away my agent. Turn 4 Opponent throws down a Jace, I do not draw an answer. A few more turns roll by and I'm just further under Jace, so I decide to take it to game 2 and 3.

Game Two, was over quickly. Long story short Opponent played 3 swords, council's judgement snap council's judgement, and jace into entreat the angels. (I even clique'd away two terminus)

Not the best start to say the least 0-1.
=======================
Round 2: vs Affinity on the draw

Game One was over quickly on the back of an abrupt decay, ravager blowout. Turn 1 I suspended visions, turn 4 played shardless into visions, turn 5 visions pops. Oh my... #livingthedream

Game Two, took a while as I had an enormous board presence but couldn't find the Decays for Ensnaring Bridge.

1-1
=========================
Round 3: vs RUG Delver on the play

We got deck checked because I had only written in 13 sideboard cards! Oops. I received a game loss which is just, but again, not where you want to be.

Game Two (One) I played around my opponent's soft permission well and got there fairly quickly with a couple of tarmogoyfs.

Game Three, Opening grip I drew my Leyline to shut off his mongeese. I played around stifle and wasteland (he had two of each it turned out) fetching out my basic swamp and forest. I held the second fetch for a turn trying to induce him to tap out which he obliged when he pondered. After that Tarmogoyfs held the ground while Tombstalker pounded from the skies.

Got there! 2-1
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Round 4: vs Burn on the draw

Game One, my rolls have just been trash today! Turn 1 my opponent cracked a fetch and played a basic mountain and I knew it was gonna be a tough round. I was able to fetch out my basics, throw down a few goyfs and hymn my opponent. Putting him into top deck mode with nothing but basics out put him down a game early. Stole it!

Game Two, I mull to six and my opponent burns me out in four turns.

Game Three, I stabilize extremely early and take it to him. There's a standoff for a bit on the ground, but Tombstalker closes the game out. Phew!

3-1
==================
Round 5: vs Infect on the draw

Game One, my hand is decent but I draw into 3 tarmogoyfs and 2 jaces... which are pretty much the worst cards in this matchup. By Turn 5 I think it's over.

Game Two, I had all the removal a boy could want and 3 Ancestral Visions popped off for me. Landed Night of Souls' Betrayal and won with beaters. Never toxic Deluged for 9 before this.

Game Three, More Removal, More hand disruption. Lookin good! Ended the game by forcing his berserk and with deathrite activations and Tombstalker in the air combining for 9.

4-1
==================
Round 6: vs Esper Delver/Deathrite on the draw (rolled snake eyes against a roll of 3 lol, not my day)

Game One, I never saw a delver put him on an esper mentor deck. Felt like round 1 as my opponent really had it all. Turn 1 my deathrite got dazed. turn 2 my hymn got dazed. turn 3 I managed to get a vital third land stifled. He played two more force of will stopping a Tombstalker and a Jace, then plowed my lone Strix for good measure. Ouch. It was a beating.

Game Two, justice was served quickly. I drew three shardless agents and a clique.

Game Three, I was very mentally exhausted at this point and managed to punt the game away by not wasting his only black source (didn't even kind of see it till later), and a pretty gross misuse of Maelstrom Pulse on my part. I deff did not deserve this one.

4-2
==================
I think the day is over but as it turns out my breakers are absolutely *insane*. Made top 8 with a loss? I'll take that. Who needs X-1-1? Let this be a lesson to all! Always, Always de-board. Always.

Top 8 Match 1: vs Death and Taxes on the draw

Game One, I play around wasteland and get a solid manabase out. My opponent amasses his small army, and I allow it with some goyfs on defense. I await him to overextend even more into my golgari charm in hand... wait... my golgari... charm... in hand.... dammnit. I call the judge and give myself a game loss.

Game Two, I make sure my mana is solid once again keeping a hand of 4 lands, an abrupt decay and two brainstorms. I allow my opponent to overextend into a night of souls' betrayal. Took it down.

Game Three, shaping up like game 2 with a little less mana. He's on a plains and a port, although he has vial out. I was just about to turn the corner and stabilize but managed to try to decay a Thalia with mom out instead of hitting the obvious vial. I just shake my head as he takes it down. He thanked me for my honesty in game 1. It helps a little.
===================

All in all, the deck is a monster. 23 lands with basics was clutch. Tombstalker was king for a day. So many times I would tap for double black and start to exile cards to have my opponent declare i couldn't cast Dig :)

The only change to the list above I would make is -1 Dig Through Time, +1 Baleful Strix. This deck could have easily taken this event. How many game losses does a guy have to accumulate in one REL? My second, to be fair, and I learned a lot. Thanks for reading.

Just to clear up his ^ deck list a little for myself and maybe for others.

4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Tombstalker

2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor

3 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
2 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
4 Force of Wll
1 Dig Through Time

4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Wasteland
1 Tropical Island
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Forest
1 Island
1 Swamp

Sideboard:
1 Pithing Needle
2 Disfigure
2 Thoughtseize
1 Golgari Charm
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Null Rod
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Vendilion Clique
2 Night of Soul’s Betrayal
3 Leyline of the Void

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lifeloss

.......All in all, the deck is a monster. 23 lands with basics was clutch. Tombstalker was king for a day. So many times I would tap for double black and start to exile cards to have my opponent declare i couldn't cast Dig :)

The only change to the list above I would make is -1 Dig Through Time, +1 Baleful Strix. This deck could have easily taken this event. How many game losses does a guy have to accumulate in one REL? My second, to be fair, and I learned a lot. Thanks for reading.

---

Great report!

Out of curiosity, have you ever missed having Liliana of the Veil in your deck?
I have been considering cutting her lately, resulting in a build similar to yours, so it's good to see a successful result.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Miscanthus

Great report!

Out of curiosity, have you ever missed having Liliana of the Veil in your deck?
I have been considering cutting her lately, resulting in a build similar to yours, so it's good to see a successful result.

---

I have not missed Liliana even a little. I am not high on her right now due to mentors and pyromancers floating around (by the way to kill mentor tokens with engineered plague, name monk not human).

Even in matchups where, in theory, she should be good... I find she's mediocre.

When constructing the deck I thought about how players attack Shardless. You can attack Shardless' mana base, and you can get under it. Those are the two best ways to blow us out, and with that in mind I came up with:

1. Solid consistent mana base. Hell, by game 3 even the burn player sided out Price of Progress against me. That's pretty awesome. I can't stress how happy I was with 23 instead of 22.

2. Lots and Lots and Lots of removal. We will win the late game. That's going to happen. This helps us get there.