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Kap, this^^ could easily be the best advice in the last umpteen pages.
A question begs; does one "preemptively" tutor or does one wait when it is known what one must tutor for? A dissection of the question, knowing the matchup is half the battle, so is one inherent strength of the deck the ability to be a step/turn ahead given the white splash?
Its basically the fact that the decision is longer and more complex. Its the same reason why brainstorm is iboth incredibally easy and difficult to play at the same time. It easy to say yes I have to Brainstorm now as I may lose, but sometimes you need to pull the trigger sooner. Also it doesn't say anything about how to stack the cards. E tutor is much the same way. Streamlines the deck, allows for more tutor targets, but knowing when to pull the trigger is the key. Only advice I can give is practice, practice, practice. I still fuck it up all the time and i have been playing with it for over two years at this point in its current itterations.
I recomend a 3 E tutor, 2 SDT split. I have sort of found Looting underwhelming since the format sped up, and like the current configuration. I would recomend a 3 E tutor if people are dropping the SDT. Also keep in mind if the SDT drop, Welder continues to be weaker, so you need to ensure that the number of artifacts you are using is high enough to maximixe that card. I have been playing a lot of vintage and block(yes Jack all 6 Ice age block decks, vs the 4 Mirage block, and the 7 tempest block, basically a great weekend), but that is what I would recomend with trying the deck
Seth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jungian Thing
I wanna address point 1.
Diehards of this thread don't get really pissed when people ask seemingly simple questions. It's when they come across as lazy and don't contribute, that's when we are short with them. All one could need to know about the deck is contained within this thread. In one place. And for those who have invested lots of time and type into compiling and maintaining this condensed source of information, it's very off putting to have someone come in, want to know everything yet look nothing up.
I also want to address the fun fact: Magus still moons with Humility in play, as well. Source: http://www.wizards.com/magic/magazin...icle/20091105a
Nice addition! I did not know that but it makes sense. Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
On point one, I have no intention of telling others how to behave, I am simply letting the poster know basically what you said in not so many words.
Ok so I went to my first SCG event and had a blast playing EPainter. I ended up going 6-3 taking 52nd place out of 374 playing Jack's 75. Should have been 7-2 IMO but oh well, I’ll explain the punt later. I definitely understand now what Jack has been mentioning about side boarding, it is not set in stone and can change based on many different factors. I don’t mention my SBing choices much but at the time I felt they were all relevant to the match. Here is my report as I remember it, sorry my memory isn’t perfect neither is my notes. If any of my opponents have different opinions on how it played out please share.
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter’s Servant
3 Goblin Welder
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Magus of the Moon
4 Grindstone
3 Sensei’s Divining Top
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Lotus Petal
4 Blood Moon
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
2 Enlightened Tutor
4 Ancient Tomb
3 City of Traitors
3 Bloodstained Mire
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Plateau
1 Great Furnace
4 Mountain
SB:
4 Firebolt
1 Red Elemental Blast
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Manic Vandal
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Trinisphere
1 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Tormod’s Crypt
1 Rest in Peace
Round 1 Esper Stoneblade (Charlie) 1-0
Game 1 Took quite a long time (~30min) I had Bridge down we were both in top deck mode I would draw something relevant and he would answer STP, Counter, etc… At one point he had both Liliana and Jace in play since I was in top deck mode and had a few critters out I revoked Jace and would slowly attack Lily. Revoker stuck and at one point he -2 Lily which kills her and I sac recruiter. He finds an answer to my Revoker and has to -1 jace to keep Welder from doing his thing. With Jace at low counters I finally kill him so both walkers are off the board Whew! After that he floods the board with SFM, Snapcaster, Batterskull, and Equip. I finally topdecked a tutor like a champ and waited till his EOT to fetch up Painter (Stone In play) he has 1 card in hand, resolves untap draw cast counterspell ughh…. This whole time I’m manually grinding him out. With a few cards left in library he cast Clique which I blast and he scoops. He mentioned after his out was Explosives but wouldn’t have hit it because it was the last card in deck. I was at 5 life he was at 6.
Game 2 I really didn’t write anything down was just trying to SB and start with not much time on clock if it goes to G3. I draw 7 and keep not sure what it was he ponders his hand and keeps. I take some early Tomb damage I’m at 5 life he is at 16 I tutor up Grindstone and it sticks GG 5 Min left in round. He did mention he kept a soft hand based on the clock.
Round 2 ANT (5 color?) (Adam) 2-0
Game 1 I mull to 6 due to no red mana just sol lands. 6 looked fine so I kept. Pretty sure I was on the play I T1 Blood Moon with Jaya & Welder + land left in hand. I pass and he Gitaxian probes me plays Lotus Petal thinks for a minute and Casts Cabal off of Petal naming Jaya. I draw Revoker still not really sure what he is on I name Sneak Attack. (Cabal should have given it away) Blood Moon does its job and all he has are fetches in play. He eventually reveals something that puts him 100% on storm.
In comes all dat storm hate -3 moon, - Jaya, -2 bridge + Trinisphere, + Canonist, + Thorn, + RIP, + Blast, + Ratchet.
Game 2 I draw all the hate I keep a hand that can T1 thorn it works I draw Trinisphere right after, then top deck a canonist like a champ. He doesn’t really do much that I remember GG.
Round 3 ANT (Bailey) 3-0
Game 1 He wins the roll and plays Volcanic something I get Blood moon down and have a fast combo
Game 2 During side boarding he was holding his deck flat so I could clearly see he was on Storm. I called a judge over and stepped away telling him what happened at this point all I seen was what I mentioned in game 1 I didn’t want to sideboard all my storm hate and have him wonder how I knew. The judge referred me to rule 3.12 Hidden Information which mentions a player must not be actively attempting to get hidden info but also is not required to tell opponent if hidden information is accidently revealed. So as long as it’s documented I sideboard accordingly. Nothing really fast happens I get revoker out naming LED as well as a SSG and beat down. I do mention to him after the match about his hand and why I called the judge he said it was ok GG.
Round 4 JUND (Chang) 3-1
Game 1 He wins the roll and is going first bam judge stops us and we both get deck checked. Now I’m nervous lol and he mentioned the same. Everything was fine +8 minutes to round. I eventually get him down to 8 life. Lily ultimates he splits spells/ land I keep spells to have top + Bridge he eventually finds abrupt decay and a fat Goyf finishes me off.
Game 2 I keep a hand that can T1 Moon petal petal Moon. All he has are fetches and has to pass each turn. I get a revoker out and name Deathrite since he is a way off of Lily mana. He topdecks a forest and I think he cast Deathrite I have Bridge + Painter on Blue out and blast in hand I EOT blast his forest and he scoops it up.
Game 3 *PUNT ALERT! I don’t remember exactly how it went down but I got out a bridge + Koth I have a Painter in play and he is digging for bridge removal he has a fat goyf 6/7 and not sure what else. It was already time in the regular round and there was a judge watching us play, who mentioned that I need to speed it up. I kept ticking up Koth until I could ultimate yeah!!! Emblem in play I am slowly pinging him for 2 or hitting relavant critters DRS & Dark Confidant. At this time he drops dark confidant x2 and Sylvan library lol. Here is where I feel I punted the game after ultimating Koth I had it in my head that my path to win was ping to death . In these turns I draw 2 x Grindstone I have mountain, mountain, Tomb in play. Being at low life I didn’t want to tap tomb and wanted to keep up mountains to ping for 2 each turn. So basically I didn’t cast grindstone!!!!! I had painter in play!!!! With all that drawing he finds removal for bridge I block Goyf for a turn ping down to 3 life and concede due to no creatures to block Goyf on the swing. I didn’t realize the punt until after the match when a fellow R/W painter said “Cast Grindstone!!!!” Then I realized it whelp…….. No shit! This would have forced him to remove Painter and The Dark Confidant damage + Pinging would have gotten there. Oh well moving on…
Round 5 Deadguy (Robert) 4-1
Game 1 Don’t remember too much still being on tilt from round 4 I get out early Moon and he scoops.
Game 2 I get the combo on board with blast back up he has SFM and Dark Confidant in play he mentioned under his breath “What does this deck do” He attempts to Vindicate the Painter and I blast it mentioning that it is blue now. I untap and stone him he flips 2 and I mention with painter it is the whole library he extends the hand. He wasn’t really sure what the Painter combo was.
Round 6 UWR Delver (Chris) 5-1
Game 1 Resolve Blood Moon GG lol Did I mention I love Blood Moon!
Game 2 He gets out early Delver x2 I have double blast that removes both I cast Moon he Dazes I pitch SSG he calls a Judge to ask if he can respond to SSG pitch by fetching. Judge informs him he cannot. Moon resolves I get out Bridge, Welder, etc it is just too much GG After he showed me a double bolt hand that would have gotten me down if I took much more delver damage. Thank you Pyroblast!
Round 7 Junk (Andrew) 15 years old! Took 13 place! 5-2
Game 1 We both get down to low life bridge in play double Deathrite does me in with plenty of ammo in the grave.
Game2 I mul to 5 for mana keep a no lander lol! Topdeck a Plateau and cast Grindstone slowly trying to get back in but it is too late GG
Overall I was really impressed by Andrew’s tight play especially for his age nice kid and has a bright future in competitive Magic.
Round 8 Reanimator (Jeremy) 5-3
Game 1 He is on the play, I have no idea what he is on I keep a T2 combo in hand. He plays a fetch and passes. I play Sol land + Painter pass EOT he fetches Underground Sea and Entombs Tidespout Tyrant ugh… Untaps plays an Island and Reanimates it he thinks then passes. At this point I have to go for it so I cast petal, tap city play grindstone play a land and activate. He says targeting? Umm you! He flips his deck untaps and concedes. I was for sure he had a Brainstorm to bounce painter but he needed another black source and only had island in play. Wow that was close! @_@
Game 2 He has another fast had T2 Iona anyone?
Game 3 Is a grindy match I have Welder + Grindstone + Thorn Of Amethest in play but no bridge to be found he has Pithing Needle on Grindstone. He gets Griselbrand in play at this point nothing I cast is probably going to resolve. I forget to activate Welder targeting his Needle and a Petal in his grave. This was just to free up Welder in hopes to hit a bridge by grinding myself. He casts another Needle on Welder GG.
Round 9 Burn (Chris) 6-3
Game 1 At this point I’m kind of down for losing the last 2 matches plus I’m getting tired I sit down shuffle up shake hands he keeps I keep. He goes T1 Goblin Guide? Ummmm ok here we go! I just try to survive long enough to do anything at one point I cast Blood Moon to help out with Tomb damage. Can we say GG!
Game 2 He also gets T1 Guide this game oh yeah! I Recruit for Canonist, Just looking to slow him down a bit, out comes Trinisphere my Hero! He can’t find a third land, having to discard every turn + board he concedes. I’ll take it!
Game 3 I get the lock out Welder + Artifact In grave + Painter (on blue) + Grindstone. When I casted Grindstone I had 3 mana open with blast in hand. I was going to wait a turn to activate to hold up blast but his body language clearly showed that he didn’t have an out. I thought for a minute and passed his face was like really I’m still alive!!! So at this point I stopped him in his upkeep. Thought about it for a sec then Stoned him. He said you got it! So by reading my opponent I won this one lol.
Highlights of the day:
Deck was tons of fun to play
Blood Moon!
Blasting Land!
Beating Burn!
Tapping grindstone!
Negatives of the day:
Punting against Jund
Missing Welder activation against Reanimator
Overall It was a total blast to play EPainter at my 1st SCG event. This list felt solid all day even with the mulls and I wouldn’t change a thing going forward. Blood Moon was an all star all day! I love those free wins! I appreciate everyone's time and effort put into this thread, it has helped me a lot. I am now hooked on the deck and will be Painting for the foreseeable future.
@jake556
Congrats! Nice write up.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thank you!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ish
@jake556: Nice report and congrats!
I've got a short ruling question about this situation:
I mean obviously he can't respond to an SSG pitch, but after the resolved Daze with Moon on the stack, shouldn't both players get priority again???Quote:
Originally Posted by jake556
Yes both players should get priority, I feel he was under the impression that he could stifle SSG. Still not sure what he had in hand. Must not have been another Daze, Spell Pierce. Because he should have been able to fetch ---> Daze/Pierce if he had it.
Thanks!Quote:
Originally Posted by jandax
I have done my best to go through the primers and to read the reports that some of the users have written up. However, I am sure that I will miss something simple at some point.
Sup fools. Jake has been my sounding board so far for twitch as I try to figure out screen overlays, sound, avoiding trolls etc. you all can join in the madness too.
Twitch.tv/kapncook
11pm weekday dailies most likely with amateur storming/chat throughout the broadcast
^ Streaming EPainter right on! Keeping the trolls in check will be the fun part lol
So I think the most heated debate on this forum is the deck name!
LOL!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Just in time! Thanks for the dedication!Quote:
Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook
Once I am comfortable with the deck, I may start doing the dailies on Wednesday night and Sunday. If it is worth it, I will set up a stream.
Anyways, I look forward to it.
Been working on an conglomerate list between Kap'n and scroncor1's lists, mainly Tutor package cards between the MD and sideboard. I absolutely HATE not having 6 or more moons, but it hasn't been so terrible. And should I feel the itch, mono red always beckons. I realize there is overlap between MD silver bullet cards like Peacekeeper and Bridge, and Goblin Welder isn't as strong as he can be. The premise of this particular build is to be prepared for stuff in my area. The list is solid, and the first thing I'd do to make slots for new changes would be remove the welders and furnace. Options to fill that hole would be a MD RiP for the DRS decks popular here, a 2nd magus for my own sanity, and possibly a third Petal or fourth City of Traitors.
And regarding the singleton looting discussion, it's definitely not worse than a third Top. It's definitely better with a welder build, and the few times I've drawn it in testing either early or late it's been able to filter some chaff into some playable cards.
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Grindstone
4 Painter's Servant
4 Blood Moon
1 Magus of the Moon
3 Enlightened Tutor
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
2 Goblin Welder
1 Peacekeeper
4 Pyroblast
2 Red Elemental Blast
3 Simian Spirit Guide
2 Lotus Petal
1 Faithless Looting
2 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Koth of the Hammer
(41)
3 City of Traitors
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Plateau
3 Wooded Foothills
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Mountain
1 Great Furnace
(19)
Sideboard:
4 Rest in Peace
1 Helm of Obedience
4 Firebolt
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Viashino Heretic
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Phyrexian Revoker
(15)
Jandax: How many games, have you jammed with that list?
I'm particular interested in the secondary milloption out of the board? :)
I think your opponent misplayed here: had he chose Iona over Tyrant naming blue, which I suppose is the colour you named with painter, he would have prevented you from casting any spell at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by jake556
A couple dozen or so against manaless dredge, DRS/blade, and uwr delver. I haven't tested the list against eldrazi decks, nor elves and other tribal decks but I figure the white splash helps the deck over the top in otherwise mediocre match ups. Those matchups I'm familair with through my mono red experience, and with the new tools available I know how to combat them in a more effective manner.Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix4
The secondary mill option is from scroncor1, he runs the Rip/Helm combo and a stoneforge package in his sideboard. While the stoneforge doesn't appeal to me, the secondary wincon totally does. If miracles (after GP paris) is going to be bigger in my area (4 hrs from paris, logistically speaking), then having outs and playing to their game plan as well isn't the worst. It can work independent of the main combo, which is great, and with RiP, the best GY hoser ever, eldrazi decks are nerfed. Again, I haven't tested it out but given the necessary matchups, I feel way more confident than with the mono R list.
Nope, not at all. Iona can't be set to colorless, so she wouldn't have mattered at all. Going for Tyrant gives him the best option (if he has a playable spell in hand). Since it wasn't the case, he should have chosen Griselbrand and in response to the casting of the grindstone draw 7 in the hopes of hitting a FoW & a blue card. But hey, you won the match, so it is all pointless now. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3
I agree that is definetely the correct line of play he either misplayed or had Iona in hand with no way to put her in the grave.Quote:
Originally Posted by kingtk3