[Primer/Deck] Burn

I played Burn at a 1K in San Antonio this weekend. Went 3-2, which was good for 10th place. I didn't know this beforehand, but Burn is very prevelant in San Antonio; I played the mirror once, and 2 other opponents were packing Sun Droplet and Obstinate Baloth in their boards. Gross.

Anyway, two questions for you guys:
- Other than the obvious matchups (Sneak Show, Reanimator, Eldrazi), when do you bring in Ensnaring Bridge? I've been siding it vs midrangey decks that make big creatures like Knight, as I start to sweat vs anything I can't Bolt. However, I'm not sure if that's choking up my deck with too many 3 drops when I should just be going for the throat.
- Any tips for playing the mirror? I've lost every single time I've played the mirror, cause I can't really wrap my head around the matchup.

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Originally Posted by Speedbump

For me, order goes Eidolon > Guide > Spike.

I feel that cutting creatures is the safer gameplan, and there's not going to be more than 8 cards coming in from the sideboard. At least Lava Spike can go upstairs, which is why it's lower on my sideboarding priority.

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I agree with this, except Swiftspear before Guide. The only creature that I think really pulls it's weight in the matchup is Lavamancer.

https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/530544#paper

wondering how he was able to fit all of these cards and run so many land, 66 card deck!

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Originally Posted by Stuart

I played Burn at a 1K in San Antonio this weekend. Went 3-2, which was good for 10th place. I didn't know this beforehand, but Burn is very prevelant in San Antonio; I played the mirror once, and 2 other opponents were packing Sun Droplet and Obstinate Baloth in their boards. Gross.

Anyway, two questions for you guys:
- Other than the obvious matchups (Sneak Show, Reanimator, Eldrazi), when do you bring in Ensnaring Bridge? I've been siding it vs midrangey decks that make big creatures like Knight, as I start to sweat vs anything I can't Bolt. However, I'm not sure if that's choking up my deck with too many 3 drops when I should just be going for the throat.
- Any tips for playing the mirror? I've lost every single time I've played the mirror, cause I can't really wrap my head around the matchup.

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I don't run Bridge. I find that every time I land it, it gets answered swiftly and then ran over on their turn. I just attack their face and race. I would rather have Searing effects and Sulfuric Vortex here. Killing artifacts post board is a must. Jitte will be in, if not Batterskull.

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Originally Posted by Brael

I agree with this, except Swiftspear before Guide. The only creature that I think really pulls it's weight in the matchup is Lavamancer.

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Why Swiftspear out over Guide? I'll take Swiftspear as she can grow through a Chalice. Both become speed bumps as turns to on.

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Originally Posted by Krimson Viper

I don't run Bridge. I find that every time I land it, it gets answered swiftly and then ran over on their turn. I just attack their face and race. I would rather have Searing effects and Sulfuric Vortex here. Killing artifacts post board is a must. Jitte will be in, if not Batterskull.

Why Swiftspear out over Guide? I'll take Swiftspear as she can grow through a Chalice. Both become speed bumps as turns to on.

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I do run bridge in the sideboard but I rarely drop it. I keep it in case the opponent meets a single rule:
Can they reasonably keep up in the damage count and stall my plays (stall does not always mean counter spells)? If I go top deck mode and they can maintain pressure the bridge should be considered.

My experience with my burn deck is a consistent average kill rate on turn 4-5 and a rare kill turn 3. This is for those cases when all is right in the universe. Not everything goes well all the time. Swiftspear vs Guide has been a long debate. This is the focuse that some should keep in mind:
You have at BEST two turns to effectively cause damage with the creature, turn 1 & 2. The potential damage between between the two is Guide-4 and Swiftspear-3(unless you fireblast and she is 4,but your out of land or out of a hand).
Guide gives you recon on their deck. Some argue that the opponent getting a land is not worth it but the land goes to hand, not play. Burn doesn't worry about much interaction between players. It hits until it cannot go on. If they can manipulate their deck to top a land well they would have done so anyways regardless of the guide, it might have just taken a little more effort for them (burn is not a prison deck, it doesn't care).
Swiftspear gives you a pumpable creature....when you have spells. Are you running UR for the extra card draw? Then play Delver. Are you playing browbeat? Your old school, I like you, but you won't be competitive.

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Originally Posted by Krimson Viper

I don't run Bridge. I find that every time I land it, it gets answered swiftly and then ran over on their turn. I just attack their face and race. I would rather have Searing effects and Sulfuric Vortex here. Killing artifacts post board is a must. Jitte will be in, if not Batterskull.

Why Swiftspear out over Guide? I'll take Swiftspear as she can grow through a Chalice. Both become speed bumps as turns to on.

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I find the idea of casting things into Chalice to pump Swiftspear to not come up very often, if ever, and less often will the creature ever connect. Instead I would rather get in that extra point of damage early alongside some information.

Here is my list for Mono Red Burn:

Creatures (12)
4 goblin guide
4 grim lavamancer
4 eidolon of the great revel

Spells (27)
1 Shard Volley
4 Chain lightning
4 lightning bolt
4 Lava Spike
3 skullcrack
4 price of progress
4 rift bolt
3 Fireblast

Enchantments (3)
3 sulfuric vortex

Land (18)
4 arid mesa
4 scalding tarn
10 mountain

Sideboard (15)
3 anger of the gods
4 smash to smithereens
3 blood moon
2 pyrostatic pillar
3ensnaring bridge

Deck breakdown:
Converted Mana Cost(CMC) Percentage of Deck
-0 3 spells (Counting fireblast) 5%
-1 25 spells (Counting suspended rift bolt) 41.6%
-2 11 spells 18.3%
-3 7 spells 11.6%
-6 3 spells (Fireblast hard casted) 5%

Land 18 30%

Ratio (Spell:Land) (7:3)7/3 2.33:1

Opening hand should be approximately equal to 4 spells, 2 land, and 1 random that will most likely be a 5th spell seeing that the ratio still determines a 66% chance of the 5th card to be a spell vs a land at 34%.
The opening hand of the 5 spells, 2.08 should be 1 CMC, 0.915 should be 2 CMC, 0.55 should be 3 CMC, 0.25 should be 0 or 6. Most likely the opening hand will be 3-1 CMC, 1-2CMC, and 1-Random CMC.

Problem matches I've found for the deck include Fish, BUG, UG Infect, Stoneforge Mystic/Batterskull (Insert deck shell), Counterbalance, Sanctuary, Reanimator, Painter's Servant, Sneak and Show, and Soul Sisters.

I've dropped this deck down to 17 land before, but the land draw became to inconsistent to properly be effective at a consistent rate. Average kill rate is turn 4-5, fastest kill rate is turn 3 with proper hand and draw, and slowest kill time can take up to turn 10 (not all decks have the goal to kill quickly and have few win conditions in the deck).

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Originally Posted by Brael

I agree with this, except Swiftspear before Guide. The only creature that I think really pulls it's weight in the matchup is Lavamancer.

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I think the Prowess triggers might be more useful than it appears.

Either way, I don't actually run Swiftspear, so take my advice with a grain of salt. :laugh:

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Originally Posted by Speedbump

I think the Prowess triggers might be more useful than it appears.

Either way, I don't actually run Swiftspear, so take my advice with a grain of salt. :laugh:

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My experience has been that even if you pump a Swiftspear to a 4/5, they'll simply chump it if necessary. Most Eldrazi players leave a blocker back against Burn and that doesn't really get you anywhere. Past T1 and sometimes T2, you just can't swing in and on those turns Guide is going to hit for more damage.

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Originally Posted by Brael

My experience has been that even if you pump a Swiftspear to a 4/5, they'll simply chump it if necessary. Most Eldrazi players leave a blocker back against Burn and that doesn't really get you anywhere. Past T1 and sometimes T2, you just can't swing in and on those turns Guide is going to hit for more damage.

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Consistency wins

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Originally Posted by Speedbump

For me, order goes Eidolon > Guide > Spike.

I feel that cutting creatures is the safer gameplan, and there's not going to be more than 8 cards coming in from the sideboard. At least Lava Spike can go upstairs, which is why it's lower on my sideboarding priority.

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Before thinking what to side out, what would you side in against Eldrazi?

I'm currently running this sideboard, which is pretty standard for Mono Red these days -at least at rather large tournaments:

4x Exquisite Firecraft
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
2x Smash to Smithereens
2x Searing Blaze
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Pithing Needle

Sometimes I use these, depending on the metagame:

2x Pyroblast
3x Smash to Smithereens (instead of 2x)

So, aside from 2x Smash to Smithereens (against Chalice of the Void and/or Umezawa's Jitte) and 2x Ensnaring Bridge, I think I wouldn't use anything else against Eldrazi. And since Eidolon of the Great Revel will only deal damage to me, it seems like a good 4-of to cut out for games 2 and 3.

Maybe, just maybe, I would side-in the extra copies of Searing Blaze against those nasty Eldrazi Mimic. In which case I'd probably cut the two copies of Sulfuric Vortex I'm running, due to their speed. Regardless of who wins, this match should end quickly.

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Originally Posted by TheYoungPyromancer

Before thinking what to side out, what would you side in against Eldrazi?

I'm currently running this sideboard, which is pretty standard for Mono Red these days -at least at rather large tournaments:

4x Exquisite Firecraft
3x Pyrostatic Pillar
2x Smash to Smithereens
2x Searing Blaze
2x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Pithing Needle

Sometimes I use these, depending on the metagame:

2x Pyroblast
3x Smash to Smithereens (instead of 2x)

So, aside from 2x Smash to Smithereens (against Chalice of the Void and/or Umezawa's Jitte) and 2x Ensnaring Bridge, I think I wouldn't use anything else against Eldrazi. And since Eidolon of the Great Revel will only deal damage to me, it seems like a good 4-of to cut out for games 2 and 3.

Maybe, just maybe, I would side-in the extra copies of Searing Blaze against those nasty Eldrazi Mimic. In which case I'd probably cut the two copies of Sulfuric Vortex I'm running, due to their speed. Regardless of who wins, this match should end quickly.

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With your sideboard, that's probably the safest cuts. Eidolon of the Great Revel is incredibly dead in that match-up, and you don't have enough other cards in the sideboard to cater towards the match-up. That said, assuming the Eldrazi player isn't running Sphere of Resistance effects, Exquisite Firecraft is pretty handy against Thought-Knot Seer.

My current sideboard is as below:

1 Grim Lavamancer
2 Skullcrack
2 Vexing Shusher
2 Pyrostatic Pillar
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Smash to Smithereens
1 Exquisite Firecraft
1 Searing Blood
1 Searing Blaze

Searing Blaze, Smash to Smithereens, and Vexing Shusher are cards that always come in from the board. Exquisite Firecraft sometimes makes the cut, depending on if I think they don't have Sphere of Resistance in their board. Grim Lavamancer has more potential than Goblin Guide, because it can aid in killing larger creatures with only one Burn spell+an activation.

I did 3-1 tonight at our local tournament. Although the result was good enough to get me to 2nd place, losing the final against Death and Taxes truly felt like ending up last. Especially after being the only player with 9 points by the end of round 3 after defeating Miracles -the Tier of all Tiers. Even after cornering my opponent at 1 life and soft-locking the game using a Pithing Needle naming Umezawa's Jitte, I was unable to topdeck a single burn spell for the next following 4 turns.

Moral of the story: Burn won't forgive a single mistake, and that's the beauty of this deck. Also, double pinning Umezawa's Jitte is not as weird as it sounds.

Anyway, fellow Pyromancers... I'm running the following list:

//Main Deck
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
2 Searing Blaze
2 Rift Bolt

2 Sulfuric Vortex

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
10 Mountain

//Sideboard:
3 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Searing Blaze
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle


1. What are your thoughts on the role Burn should assume against Death and Taxes? (Considering post-board games as well)

2. How would you proceed with the sideboard strategy?

3. Some final thoughts:
Siding-in seemed pretty obvious:
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Searing Blaze
2 Pithing Needle

I tried siding-out the following cards, but I'm almost certain there are safer cuts. Any ideas?
2 Rift Bolt (They become a pain in the ass after Thalia, Guardian of Thraben resolves)
2 Fireblast (Same reason as before)
2 Price of Progress (The opponent is likely to play around them by playing basic lands and Wasteland)
1 Lava Spike (Since it can't target creatures)

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Originally Posted by TheYoungPyromancer

I did 3-1 tonight at our local tournament. Although the result was good enough to get me to 2nd place, losing the final against Death and Taxes truly felt like ending up last. Especially after being the only player with 9 points by the end of round 3 after defeating Miracles -the Tier of all Tiers. Even after cornering my opponent at 1 life and soft-locking the game using a Pithing Needle naming Umezawa's Jitte, I was unable to topdeck a single burn spell for the next following 4 turns.

Moral of the story: Burn won't forgive a single mistake, and that's the beauty of this deck. Also, double pinning Umezawa's Jitte is not as weird as it sounds.

Anyway, fellow Pyromancers... I'm running the following list:

4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
2 Searing Blaze
2 Rift Bolt

2 Sulfuric Vortex

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa

Sideboard:

3 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Searing Blaze
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle

Siding in seems pretty obvious:

3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Searing Blaze
2 Pithing Needle

1. What would you side out? I tried this:
2 Rift Bolt (They become a pain in the ass after Thalia, Guardian of Thraben resolves.
2 Fireblast (Same reason as.

2- What are your thoughts on the role Burnshould assume against Death and Taxes? (Considering post-board games as well). What are the optimal cuts for G2 and G3?

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Congrats on second place!

I'll answer the questions out-of-order, as #2 will give answer to #1.

2: Burn tends to play the Control side in this match-up, as you have more removal for their threats than they have threats. You can also sit behind Grim Lavamancer for most of the game, while also attacking with Goblin Guide and Monastery Swiftspear. The only card that is a massive threat is Mother of Runes, as D&T blanks too much of your removal. Thalia can be slightly annoying, but that's only when you're forced to keep 1-land hands. Sometimes you just have to go for the race, but it's more frequent to win with creatures backed by removal.

1: I would side out every Eidolon of the Great Revel in the deck, and then start shaving Price of Progress until you hit the required number of sideboard cards. Eidolon is actively bad against Aether Vial, Thalia, and most of their equipment, while also forcing you to play more aggressively in a match-up where being the Control deck wins more often. Price of Progress isn't that great against a deck with 11 basics, although is better than Eidolon. Searing Blaze, Smash to Smithereens, and possibly Pithing Needle are better than both Eidolon of the Great Revel and Price of Progress.

Thank you so much for the feedback! Cutting Eidolon of the Great Revel makes a lot of sense, and it seems way safer than cutting Fireblast or Lava Spike.

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Originally Posted by Speedbump

Burn tends to play the Control side in this match-up, as you have more removal for their threats than they have threats. You can also sit behind Grim Lavamancer for most of the game, while also attacking with Goblin Guide and Monastery Swiftspear. The only card that is a massive threat is Mother of Runes, as D&T blanks too much of your removal. Thalia can be slightly annoying, but that's only when you're forced to keep 1-land hands. Sometimes you just have to go for the race, but it's more frequent to win with creatures backed by removal.

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I agree on the idea of assuming a board control approach for games 2 and 3 as both the opponent and I should be counting on Smash to Smithereens and a full pack of Searing Blaze. However, burn tends to run out of gas during Game 1 as soon as Batterskull or Umezawa's Jitte resolve. With this in mind, and considering the lack of artifact removal before sideboarding, shouldn't Game 1 be played with an all-in strategy? It's hard to rely on just two copies of Sulfuric Vortex to prevent the lifegain, and even if the burn pilot is lucky enough to draw a copy before Turn 5, either Thalia, Guardian of Thraben or Rishadan Port will probably be around to make it hard to cast.

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Originally Posted by TheYoungPyromancer

I did 3-1 tonight at our local tournament. Although the result was good enough to get me to 2nd place, losing the final against Death and Taxes truly felt like ending up last. Especially after being the only player with 9 points by the end of round 3 after defeating Miracles -the Tier of all Tiers. Even after cornering my opponent at 1 life and soft-locking the game using a Pithing Needle naming Umezawa's Jitte, I was unable to topdeck a single burn spell for the next following 4 turns.

Moral of the story: Burn won't forgive a single mistake, and that's the beauty of this deck. Also, double pinning Umezawa's Jitte is not as weird as it sounds.

Anyway, fellow Pyromancers... I'm running the following list:

//Main Deck
4 Goblin Guide
4 Monastery Swiftspear
4 Eidolon of the Great Revel
2 Grim Lavamancer

4 Lava Spike
4 Chain Lightning
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Price of Progress
4 Fireblast
2 Searing Blaze
2 Rift Bolt

2 Sulfuric Vortex

4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Arid Mesa
10 Mountain

//Sideboard:
3 Exquisite Firecraft
3 Pyrostatic Pillar
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Searing Blaze
2 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Pithing Needle


1. What are your thoughts on the role Burn should assume against Death and Taxes? (Considering post-board games as well)

2. How would you proceed with the sideboard strategy?

3. Some final thoughts:
Siding-in seemed pretty obvious:
3 Smash to Smithereens
2 Searing Blaze
2 Pithing Needle

I tried siding-out the following cards, but I'm almost certain there are safer cuts. Any ideas?
2 Rift Bolt (They become a pain in the ass after Thalia, Guardian of Thraben resolves)
2 Fireblast (Same reason as before)
2 Price of Progress (The opponent is likely to play around them by playing basic lands and Wasteland)
1 Lava Spike (Since it can't target creatures)

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I do not like your main and side build. I don't understand why only 2 rift bolt in your main deck. i think you should keep 4 rift in main and 4 searing in side and cuting out Pyrostatic Pillar.
for your side strategy eidolon out, 2 fireblast and 2 price out, side in smash, searing and needle

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Originally Posted by Gaudy

I do not like your main and side build. I don't understand why only 2 rift bolt in your main deck.

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I think the 2 copies of Searing Blaze in the maindeck are a metagame choice. However, and as opposed to Rift Bolt, I like the tempo advantage this card yields. It is good against Delver of Secrets, Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman, Dryad Arbor, Stoneforge Mystic, and a whole bunch of 1-drop and 2-drop creatures that define the format in the early game, which is when Burn should seal the deal. The only times I side this card out is when playing against Miracles, Storm or Charbelcher.

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Originally Posted by Gaudy

i think you should keep 4 rift in main and 4 searing in side and cuting out Pyrostatic Pillar.

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Pyrostatic Pillar is a valuable card against top tier decks such as Miracles, Grixis Delver and Storm. I'm not so sure about cutting it out just so I can get two extra copies of Rift Bolt in maindeck. Why do you think this card should be put aside?

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Originally Posted by TheYoungPyromancer

I think the 2 copies of Searing Blaze in the maindeck are a metagame choice. However, and as opposed to Rift Bolt, I like the tempo advantage this card yields. It is good against Delver of Secrets, Mother of Runes, Deathrite Shaman, Dryad Arbor, Stoneforge Mystic, and a whole bunch of 1-drop and 2-drop creatures that define the format in the early game, which is when Burn should seal the deal. The only times I side this card out is when playing against Miracles, Storm or Charbelcher.

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yes, it is really good againts many creature that define the format and give you the feeling of advantage in the race of damage, but rise up the mana cost of the deck and you need a land drop to make it powerfull, which after the third land you probably don't wanna it and Rift Bolt can kill creatures plus is still good against miracles, cause they don't have many 3 drops in their decks

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Originally Posted by TheYoungPyromancer

Pyrostatic Pillar is a valuable card against top tier decks such as Miracles, Grixis Delver and Storm. I'm not so sure about cutting it out just so I can get two extra copies of Rift Bolt in maindeck. Why do you think this card should be put aside?

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yes your are right, would you put 3 blaze and 2 pillar in side?

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Originally Posted by TheYoungPyromancer

Thank you so much for the feedback! Cutting Eidolon of the Great Revel makes a lot of sense, and it seems way safer than cutting Fireblast or Lava Spike.



I agree on the idea of assuming a board control approach for games 2 and 3 as both the opponent and I should be counting on Smash to Smithereens and a full pack of Searing Blaze. However, burn tends to run out of gas during Game 1 as soon as Batterskull or Umezawa's Jitte resolve. With this in mind, and considering the lack of artifact removal before sideboarding, shouldn't Game 1 be played with an all-in strategy? It's hard to rely on just two copies of Sulfuric Vortex to prevent the lifegain, and even if the burn pilot is lucky enough to draw a copy before Turn 5, either Thalia, Guardian of Thraben or Rishadan Port will probably be around to make it hard to cast.

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i have the same feeling about this match up, the first game should be a all in game, probably with 2 creatures and try to steal 6 points of damage whit them and a bounch of sparks to finish the job, the second should be like a control board strategy

Genuinely surprised people are putting Grim into their lists again. What deck is chasing you guys to use him again? It's been awhile since I've played, lol.