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Originally Posted by Tormod
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No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormod
nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tormod
Was there a reason he showed the Polluted Delta he drew? Otherwise, incredibly well played, but that seemed weird to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emo
He might have done that to prevent Manfield from using his Wasteland. Not sure if I'm thinking of the correct game here, but wasn't that the situation?
It was on his very first turn of game 3, right after he got Probed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jona
Yeah, that's the situation I meant. Just because he doesn't know there is a Wasteland doesn't mean he can't play around it. Sure, it could have been a slip-up, but I actually did like him playing Delta there.
Edit to make my point clear:
Jacob was obviously setting up to be the control deck in this game, as is evidenced by his not attacking with the first Delver. Getting hit by Wasteland, on the other hand, is likely to force him into playing a more aggressive game. By revealing his second land, he might change how Manfield values a potential Wasteland, thus increasing his odds of being able to play a bigger game.
props to him, it is really hard to achieve a 8:0:0 record with this deck, it requires more skill than back in 2012.
Where is his beloved Zuran Orb in the sideboard ? :D
Had an awesome streak with UGInfect with 4 straight TOP8’s and winning the last one in my local legacy, Still it was the deck i’ll be piloting Easter Sunday. Did came in early to deliver altered goodies to my clients and completed my decklist named INFECT POXYTIVE... was about to submit the list when suddenly i noticed pyroblasts in my sideboards.. MAN! what i brought with me is my old reliable RUGDelver (i have 3 decks with same deck boxes, same sleeves to avoid scouting : ), thought of borrowing my friend’s infect deck but 2 of my teammates thought Delver is missing so much playing time, there has to be a reason!
finished 4th (40+ man tourney, Cerberus legacy Open, Manila)
creatures: 3 goyfs/ 1 scooze / 3 goose / 1 tnn / 4 delvers
removals: 4 bolts / 1 forked / 1 fice / 1 dismember (expecting meta filled with bskulls, goyfs)
3 pierces, 4 stifles, probeless.. everything the same
helpers: 3 pyroblasts / 1 surgical / 1 tormods / 1 graf / 1 grudge / 1 revelry / 2 roughs / 3 submerges / 1 needle and switched v.cliq last minute to a VORTEX and proved crucial in my game1.
R1 Miracles 1-0 (2-1)
lost game 1 via multiple removals, resolved vortex both games and countered c.judgment on my enchantment that sealed the game.. i let bskull resolved and hold up permission for Council, i was way ahead of life.
R2 Rugdelver 2-0 (2-0)
paired with a very skilled pilot, but then again he thought i was on infect, fetched recklessly game 1 vs my trop only to face multiple stifles, man i love how it feels not to be scouted for a long time with RUG! i got an aggresive start game 2 with multiple delvers.
R3 UGInfect 3-0 (2-0)
the week before this, i was discussing tweaks with infect with this fellow infect pilot, only to be paired with him round 3, aggresively bolted his crits on my turn, knowing both decks should help me solve this, game2 he kept landlight with no nobles and got punished.
R4 Dredge 3-1 (2-1)
i have maindeck scooze yeah! but he had a very aggresive opening, my crypt showed up game 2, game 3 where in facing a horde of zombies vs my lone goyf, i got triple ponders to search rough ftw, didnt show up : ), scooze was sleeping all day too : (
R5 Shardless BUG 4-1
friend offered me the win for a split prize and assuring myself another top8, and getting that much needed rest and refreshments.
R6 Maverick 4-1-1
ID, getting me to rank 3
quarterfinals vs Esperblade 5-1-1 (2-0)
stifles and wastelands got there both games, very easy win vs a difficult matchup... meanwhile my other teammate who’s on RUG too won the game vs ranked 1 dredge.. he lost the finals vs DnT, he was on Jacob Wilson’s list, and asked me last night if TNN is good, i told him i have 1 main, he sideboarded in 2.
semis vs RUGdelver 5-2-1 (2-1)
just a story of who has many lands and can land a threat early.. game 3 wherein i had 2 goyfs vs 2 threshed goose.. but he drawn multiple submerges and proved goose is still king : )
final4 are: Dnt / RUG / Shardless BUG / RUG
Had a terrible headache going back home, probably coz the matches went late and i was too tired, somehow the stress of overthinking i picked up a wrong deck and getting my mind back to stifling fetches caught me. but it was after all NOT A WRONG DECK to PLAY AGAIN!
Push the Tempo! GO TEMUR!
Jammed Temur delver yesterday at a local tournament with some good success: I went 3-0-1 against some of this deck’s tougher matchups
I was running Jacob Wilson's list from the invitationals except I was only running 3 spell pierces and added one forked bolt so I had 7 removal spells maindeck
Sideboard
3 submerge
2 rough/tumble
2 ancient Grudge
1 flusterstorm
1 sylvan library
2 spell snare
3 Pyroblast
1 Graftdiggers
Rd 1 Shardless Sultai BUG
Game 1: I am on the play with a turn one delver, the next turn I follow up by bolting his deathrite. On his 3rd turn I stifle his 3rd land, he forces it pitching shardless agent, I immediately daze back sensing his hand has multiple 3 drops. After the fight over stifle, he follows up by hymning my hand away which was bolt and forked bolt . I have a flipped delver as a clock and we end up in a topdeck war- he eventually hits his 3rd land drop, plays shardless agent into abrupt decay. Two turns later I draw a brainstorm which finds me the last piece of burn I need to close out the game.
I wasn't quite sure how to side for this matchup because I don't play against it much but I see it as a more difficult one.
Sb- Out 4 force, 2 pierce, 2 daze- I feel their whole deck is 2 for 1s so out goes Force and I wanted to focus more on 1 for 1 trades, but I still feel they have a greedy manabase so I kept in 2 dazes
In- 3 pyro blast, 2 spell snare, 3 submerge
Game 2- My opening hand is 2 stifles, 2 wastelands, polluted delta, delver and brainstorm- I am successfully able to wreck his manabase for the first 5-6 turns- he eventually lands a 1 of Tasigur which I dismember and later a goyf takes the game for me.
1-0
Round 2 Storm
Game 1: I open with a delver, daze, wasteland, stifle, bolt, land, ponder- seems reasonable, so I keep. My opponent wins the roll and starts with a turn one ritual, looks at me, then rituals again, plays duress, sees my hand grabs the stifle, drops 2 lions eye diamonds tutors for AD Nauseum and proceeds to win from there... whomp
SB out- 4 bolt, 2 dismember 1 forked bolt
In - 3 pyroblast, 1 flusterstorm, 2 spell snare, 1 sylvan (sylvan feels bad on the draw but I like the idea of being able to draw 2 pieces of permission a turn)
Game 2: I get a double devler draw and he is forced to go off by turn 3. On his turn, he duress me seeing my 2 forces and my flusterstorm and he scoops.
Game 3: Longer game that comes down to me having one card in my hand while he is forced to pull the trigger on an Empty the warrens from mongeese pressure; luckily the card in my hand was a stifle.
2-0
Round 3 Junk Maverick
Game 1: I remember I played this game slower than usual because I know how hard this deck is to play against. I remember getting to a point in the game where he looks like he is going to win and has an overwhelming boardstate of a 7/7 knight of the reliquary a deathrite shaman and a quasili pride mage but he is at 8. I have a 4/5 goyf and a goose with a pair of lands- I brainstorm into delver, pierce, forked bolt, playing the delver then flipping it on forked bolt on the next turn, I did this because at this point my opponent's deathrite shaman was pinging me for life, as I was at about 10 and he saw I had two lightning bolts in my yard and wasn’t worried about being burned out. I forked bolt the deathrite and I stifle a Knight activation to save my volcanic from being wasted. Two turns later at some point I only have flipped delver on my side and he only has his knight and he is at 3. He swings with his knight putting me at 1 and I have 1 card in hand. He has 4 lands and 2 cards in his hand - he plays Swords on my delver, I spell pierce, he pays, and then I spell pierce it again with my freshly drawn spell pierce- I end up winning with no cards in hand at one life with just a delver. :)
SB out- 4 dazes, 3 stifles, 2 force
In- 2 rough, 3 submerge, 2 spell snare, 1 ancient grudge, 1 cage
Game 2: I have a hand with 3 goyfs, a bolt, ponder and 2 lands- I keep bolt his mana dork and win by playing 3 goyfs and drawing into a 4th goyf down the road.
3-0
round 4
I split with a deathblade deck for first place
3-0-1
Felt good running with Temur again- I wanted to know if any of you had sideboard suggestions or would have boarded differently, I am still unsure of when its good to entirely get rid of dazes or when its good to just cut a few. Shardless feels like a mathcup where daze is still valuable, where it feels terrible keeping any against maverick on the draw.
I didn't get why you SB in the cage vs Junk Maverick. Am I missing something?
I shouldn't have brought it in and should have brought in another grudge or kept a Force, but it prevents them from fetching for dryad arbor or using green sun's zenith to get their one of ooze or their knightsQuote:
Originally Posted by wbw
I wouldn't mind bringing cage in against them because of zenith and arbor like you mentioned but also since they run zenith, they might often times have 1 ofs that they heavily rely zenith on fetching. Just remember there is a slight nonbo with submerge and cage since cage shuts off zenith from shuffling and submerge sometimes encourages shuffling to act as a pseudo removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emo
I totally forgot Zenith. My bad.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=16475&iddeck=123166
interesting both 1st&2nd the same thing, is this the future of Canadian Threshold?
How do you guys address the bug delver matchup?
I know it's winnable but when they have deathrite's to eat your yard, tasigur/angler, uncounterable abrupt decay, and lilliana all seems very unfavorable for RUG. Do dismembers in the main deck help all that much? I was thinking upping the submerge to at least 3 in the board. What do you guys think of dead//gone in the main or side? Can act like a shock when needed or a bounce spell?
from the bug side, it will be a battle of board control, wastelands, stifles, then submerge our big delve guysQuote:
Originally Posted by Sunday Funday
its really 50/50. I wouldn't concern about this matchup too much.
@Sloshthedark-
Builds like this were popular for a while after Treasure Cruise was released but before it was banned. I experimented with 4 Delver/3 Goyf/3 YP/4 Treasure Cruise builds a few times, and I always found them to be pretty terrible. After Daryl Ayers debuted RUG Kird Ape Treasure Cruise build, no one played 4 Delver/3 Goyf/3 YP pile anymore. The RUG YP build is basically a strictly worse the URW version, Stoneforge Mystic and equipment just go much better with Young Pyromancer than Tarmogoyf and the equipment gives the URW build a much stronger late game.
I would be on board with Kird Ape style version of the deck, however there doesn't seem to be a good 1 drop to support that kind of build right now. Kird Ape was fantastic because it is a two power one drop that encourages having Forests in the deck. However, the Taiga required to play Kird Ape makes Dig through Time much harder cast. We could replace Kird Ape with something like Monestary Swiftspear, but at that point, the opportunity cost of running green just to play Tarmogoyf isn't worth it when Young Pyromancer fits much better into this build. Another 1 drop that encourages the green splash that doesn't rely on the graveyard and doesn't require Taiga would be the ground work for an optimal RUG Dig build. Something like Skyshroud Elite is the best thing available right now, and I don't think that is better than just running a traditional Nimble Mongoose build with out Dig.
Obviously this deck took two top spots in a reasonably large tournament and merits consideration, but I can't see how this pile has any strategic advantage over the URW version of this deck or a typical Nimble Mongoose Canadian Threshold build.
@Sunday Funday
-Submerge is the best card against BUG Delver in my experience. Dismember can be okay, but Deathrite Shaman gives your opponent lots of reach, so paying 4 life is frequently pretty brutal, I find the card pretty unreliable. I find paying life also is frequently an issue against the mirror where your opponent will have lots of reach with burn spells, and the card is pretty poor against Elves, where they have reach w/ Deathrite or they can just swarm you with a bunch of little guys if your life total gets to low. So Submerge is the best option IMO, and I am always trying to keep 3 in sideboard and not drop down to 2. Either way, BUG Delver is never going to be a great match up, but if they don't draw perfectly, you should be competitive. You want your gameplan to focus on clearing the way for Nimble Mongoose since it has shroud (so burn all their small creatures and blank your opponents removal, pitching your Delver to FoW to counter your opponents Tarmogoyf instead just casting Delver and getting Abrupt Decay'd for instance) or just try to ram your way through with Delvers and Tarmogoyfs.
Given the rise of Omni-Tell decks, what are suitable sideboard cards (besides Krosan Grip) we can put in to make the matchup a little bit easier? :) I know we can beat the deck, I just want an easier time of it since there are too many of them in my meta. Of the UR/UB/MonoU Omnitell lists, I find mono-U lists harder to disrupt due to their use of basics.
@kyreii
I'd probably add two cliques, and one or two surgical extractions to the sideboard. Surgical hitting their cantrips should slow them down. I don't think grip will be that effective against them since they will get priority back once omniscience hits the floor.
Cheers
That's only an issue in the specific instance where they SNT -> Omniscience with an Emrakul in hand already.Quote:
Originally Posted by cheerios
Often they have to cast Cunning Wish or cantrip/dig into Wish/Emrakul in order to actually win and you can Krosan Grip the Omni in response when they try to do this.
Another way to use Surgical if you have them is to counter the first Show and Tell and then extract that, but some builds have alternate plans post-board like Young Pyromancer (although this is probably more of an effective strategy for decks that have discard. Extracting cantrips seems like a bit of an uphill battle).