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Her +2 (Scry 2) might be more valuable now we've lost Top. Nissa doesn't get killed by Deed, where Sylvan Library does. And when she's been on the field long enough (or, you know, after you've wiped the board with Deed) she can come in for a quick 10 damage.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
Yeah. Her +2 is a bit awkward sometimes, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
If you have more than 50% of your deck as 'hits' for Nissa (not unlikely), then alternating scry and 0 gets you less stuff into play than just 0'ing every time, even if you assume that the scry always guarantees you hit next turn - which is unlikely, since there will be cards you want to put on the bottom at least some of the time. If you already have enough board presence to force a sweeper from the opponent, I can see ticking her up to prepare to reapply pressure afterwards, or if she's on less than 3 counters, but otherwise it doesn't seem particularly powerful. I guess she can also ship away cards you brainstormed to the top of the library which is nice.
The interactions with JTMS are really good. I can't seem to figure out the rest of the deck though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
I'm playing her in 4c Atraxa.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
4 Explorer
1 Ooze
1 QPM
3 Strix
2 Stoneforge
3 Tracker
1 Witness
1 Leovold
1 Meren
1 Atraxa
1 Sigarda
2 JTMS
2 Nissa SOE
1 Jitte
1 Sword of whatever (batterskull in sideboard)
4 Therapy
3 Zenith
2 Deed
2 Decay
2 Swords
2 Brutality
21 lands
Don't you miss a Deathrite or w/e in this build, considering that you run only 4 vet as ramp, with 3 Zenith and pretty greedy on the Colors? (asuming there is an Arbor in the manabase?)Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
Other than that, the list looks very nice.
Dude, Arbor isn't a part of the manabase. It can't be. It's just a creature.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
@Navsi: You might want to add at least 1 DRS. Other than that, that's a nice and spicy list!
Yeah 1 Deathrite is probably a reasonable call, might move the QPM to the sideboard or cut a Tracker/strixQuote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
Arbor is indeed not in the deck. It's tempting (equipment / meren / fetchlands..) but I'd rather not spend a slot on a card I don't want to draw when I could be playing good creatures instead. It's not like Strix isn't also amazing with equipment and Meren, after all.
I'm not too worried about mana ramping - with UG Nissa, the only 5cmc spell in the deck is Sigarda, and there are only four 4cmc spells in the deck (Meren, Atraxa, two Jaces). Not drawing an Explorer leaves most of the deck still playable. The deck does more per turn with more mana (play + equip at once, zenith for big stuff) but staying on 3-4 mana for a turn or two isn't the end of the world. I think 7-8 ramp effects in the deck is probably enough.
Love that Atraxa list :)
Concerning nyxfit: I'm just a few cards from a complete maindeck now but still unsure about the haymakers.
What I may choose between (in terms of card availability) is Cruel reality, Sandwurm convergence, Living pane, Curse of deaths hold, Humility, Nether void, the Abyss, and Starfield of nyx. I would prefer to run as few haymakers as possible, but that depends all on the mana-cost. I am also open to having niche haymakers in sideboard. I guess I could buy a Dovescape if need be.
One idea is Convergens + Void since one of them should be good vs fair and the other vs unfair dekcs. Void as a follow up to Converegens should be seal the (already sealed?) deal. Nyx could be added as a way to recur deed and make sure that I dont just die to disenchant. With cabal therapy and brutality i should be able to bin a drawn Convergens and cheat it in with nyx as well. Not sure what the weaknesses of this set up is?
Another idea is curse, humility and possibly dovescape/living plane. They work toghether well and the hard lock is appealing. The cards have lower manacost and can be drawn and cast in the mid game. The downside is that you need more semi-expensive cards that may dilute your starting hand. You also kind of need two pieces to really lock the game down so the set-up to fight both fair and unfair decks is slower.
A less good idea, I guess, is Cruel Reality, more Deeds and possibly the Abyss for added creature hate or Void to fight combo.
A last idea is just running more Nyx and let Nyx win by itself. However that is weak to swords and sweepers.
How have you testing with wincon's worked out?
I've thought about adding the XGU Nissa into my BUG list but I'm not sure what to cut either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
Current list (or at least the next changes I plan to make)
3 Veteran Explorer
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Baleful Strix
3 Tireless Tracker
1 Leovold, Emissary of Trest
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Titania, Protector of Argoth
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Nissa, Vital Force
21 lands - 6 basics, 9 fetches, 1 Volrath's Stronghold
Recent changes would be -1 Vet + 1 GSZ for added flexibility. I'm a tad unsure of this but I've seen Stryfo/Clashed run 3 Vets with 0 GSZ in his BUG lists so it is probably doable. -1 Push for +1 Decay since I simply feel a bit weak to Chalice right now and Push is a miss against several decks.
So far Meren seems much more powerful than Titania. Titania just not doing much lately. I do like the idea of more walkers though. Part of me really wants to try Oath of Nissa plus way more walkers (cutting down to Vet + Strix + Meren to hold the fort). I don't think I can run either Liliana without Oath - the manabase is greedy as it is.
Might just try -Titania +Nissa SE.
Cruel Reality and Sandwurm Convergence both beat fair midrange matchups, planeswalker and decks that cheat in big fatties. Each does so slightly differently, but you probably want one of these two.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
Dovescape and Nether Void are our only interaction with spell based combo. We probably want one of these two. Dovescape works well with Sandwurm Convergence.
Curse of Death's Hold beats misc other decks, but overlaps a lot with Pernicious Deed. However it combos well with Dovescape.
Starfield gives us redundancy and locks out decks that rely on non-planeswalker permanents.
Humility is good against the same things as Cruel Reality and Sandwurm Convergence, but is closer to a hardlock, particularly with Curse of Death's Hold. However we can't run it and drop Cruel / Sandwurm because that leaves us with zero answers to planeswalkers.
Living Plane is a hardlock with Curse of Death's Hold (or Humility, sometimes) but complete garbage on its own.
----
I'm running Sandwurm / Dovescape / Curse / Starfield main, with Humility in the sideboard. Curse or Starfield could potentially get dropped, but I like having recursion in case Sandwurm gets killed or something leaving me with no real finishers, and Curse combos so well with Dovescape and Humility.
+1 all these thoughts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
I'll add that Dovescape works very well with the Evo Leap engine as well. Leaping the first Rector for Dovescape is a great line.
My latest was with Sandwurm / Dovescape / Curse. Was close to adding Humility main - it seems that Sneak/Show has 1st or 2nd highest meta share right now so it's a good call.
You really don't want more than 4, or 5 if you have a couple costing under 5/6cmc. Once you decide on those, then focus quite a bit on interaction and consistency imo.
What do people think of Saskia, the Unyielding as a GSZ-able target? She's bolt-proof and decay proof, has haste, and presents a rather quick clock with the likes of Nissa, Vital Force, Sigarda and - more importantly - T3 Tireless Tracker into T4 fetchland and crack two clues into T5 GSz for Saskia.
In what build? If you're splashing a fourth colour in Abzan, there are a lot more reasons to go blue than red.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uyan
I was thinking not to splash for it, or just a Taiga, and it would be for Abzan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Navsi
After reading through some comments I can definitely see the appeal of Blue, I just thought "How good would Saskia be if you didn't splash for it?"
I dunno, I think that Saskia is a win-more. Meaning that if your able to connect with it, you probably control the board anyway. I like the idea of splashing red in Junk lists, but it does not really add anything other then style points. The reason to play red is PFire+Liliana OR Sneak Attack OR Nahiri, the Harbringer OR Scapeshift. I could only see Nahiri being something able to splash in Junk. The other decks are already consuming so much dedicated slots that it would make the list weaker before stronger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Uyan
Saskia is a haste creature to snipe JTMS though.
Nissa has a couple other oddities to her:
Cons:
* Killed by Flickerwisp
* Teeg blocks her
* requires 4 mana if you want her out of bolt-range and play it safe.
* Her best CA ability is not guaranteed or takes set up; contrasting to other walkers' guaranteed CA, usually the turn you drop them
* +2 abilities are always strong, if nothing else for the fact that it makes the walker pretty tough to get rid of.
Pros:
* 8+ mana makes her almost a 10-damage sorcery
* 3 mana to drop her makes her a better version of the best Scry-1 Enchantments we've seen
* Her CA, when successful, is also tempo/mana savings; which makes it a 2 or 3-in-1 ability. Unlike just giving you the card, the ability to come down and give you a dude is pretty nifty.
I think Kaya is reasonable if you're looking for straight CA. Dropping her and doing a -2 not only works for +2 CA instantly, but she can *do it again* before requiring any setup. Not to mention a non-targeted win-con.
Nissa seems fine for pitching to force and being versatile, but she's also only explosive if you've basically already won the game. I'm waiting a bit before I get any copies.
This looks cool. I would like to play with Titania but you can't get everything.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Chandra, ToD was really nice when I played her. 2 red in mana cost maybe too much in this deck.
I hope I will beable to play it soon
Cool, Chandra is defenitly going to SB for the grindy MU's. RR is pretty hard tho without 2 basic Mountains. Learned that the hard way with Stormbreath Dragon (which is still one of my favorite configurations.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
On Saskia, I wouldnt waste a slot and a Taiga just for a random Jace snipe. Sigarda, Rhino, Tusk and Titan already makes Jace awkward. Not to mention Nissa, Vital Force or other combat walkers like Garruk Relentless.
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What do you guys think of Ajani, Unyielding in a Junk Fit deck? Is 6 CMC Sorin just better?