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I have played several games with Trygon Predator, and found them to be inferior to Krosan Grip in CB/Top war. I dont know what you people think. You usually have to deal with 1-2 problematic artifact/enchantment. And krosan can deal with it. You don't need a turn after paying 3 mana. The only matchups where i would prefer Trygon are Affinity
I dont know if i am playing them wrong, but these are my feelings
Robert
Predator also gives you another threat which is definitely not irrelevent in MUs against control decks, especially stax, if you get to three mana, you wanna be able to nuke as many things as possible.
At least in my meta, I find Predators really useful. Bur I usually face one Dragon Stompy and one Faerie Stompy per tournament, with the ocasional affinity. And its really useful against Landstill (more for upping the threat count than for the destroy effect I think, but my opponents told me that Pred wrecks them...)
Predator has got it's advantages, but I guess he is still more specific. He is useless against Landstill as he won't be able to destroy Humility or Pernicious Deed.
He can be countered, hit by removal and needs 1 Turn to do something.
Against Stax and Affinity, he is of course superior to Grip, but i still think Grip is better since it destroys Pernicious Deed, Engineered Explosives, Counterbalances, Shackles, Humility right there. And Split Second is also really nice.
But you can simply run a 2/2 split Grip/predator. At least this is what Clemens and I do.
I'd like to emphasize this. Simply put, Threshold has a lot of card drawing - use it! Run a card in 4-of if either a) it's consistently better than the alternative; b) you like to see it early and in multiple copies. Two such examples could be Tormod's Crypt or Pyroclasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Adan
If that is not the case, run 2-3 copies of each card that is better in a specific situations, and rely on your cantrips and Tops to find them.
Don't forget REBs. I can't believe I still see sideboards without them, they have been so key for me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nihil Credo
the reb blast seem like the tech :) Would you recommend them in a non canadian ThreshThreshThreshThreshThresh build?
Robert
What do you think about Winter Orb in a Canadian Thresh Sideboard against Landstill for exampe? It attacks his manabase even further and Daze absolutely shines. (1. Hardcounter 2. More untapped lands, if played with alternate casting costs)
I actually can't think of another deck I'd like to have them in, spontaneously.
What do you think?
If you truly wanted to attack Landstill, I'd say run Price of Progress. Blood Moon wont work against Landstill anymore since the UW builds moved up to like 5-6 Basic Lands and they can just get around stuff. Winter Orb blows because Landstill will usually set their EEs at 2. If you even attempt to Stifle it, they'll probably dedicate themselves with counters to protecting their EE.
It hurts yourself O.oQuote:
Originally Posted by Anti~American4621
That's the reason why Price of Progress blows as well, because thes WILL fetch their basics together first, making PoP hurt yourself more than the LS player.Quote:
Blood Moon wont work against Landstill anymore since the UW builds moved up to like 5-6 Basic Lands and they can just get around stuff.
Winter Orb is actually a pretty good idea imo, they usually can't set EE on 2 with a CC higher than 2, which makes it indeed vilnerable to Stifle, but as well as to Spell Snare. Winter orb also makes Daze incredibly stong and makes Decree, WoG, Cunning Wish and Humility suck.Quote:
Winter Orb blows because Landstill will usually set their EEs at 2. If you even attempt to Stifle it, they'll probably dedicate themselves with counters to protecting their EE.
against the "american" 4color Variants with 12 Duals, Price of Progress is indeed devastating, but so is Blood Moon.
Winter Orb might not be as effective against the 4color Variant than against UWb LS, but 4C LS is very vulnerable to Stifle-Waste and therefore we have a fair deal here IMO.
Yes, but you're the aggressor. After one resolves, any damage becomes lethal so they will have to be on the ledge for the whole game. Also, Price of Progress is better suited for the Tempo variants because your life total is always going to be high. Being able to kill Landstill aggressively and quickly is amazing.
I decided to play a really weird build the other night.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flooded Strand
4 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Island
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Swans of Bryn Argoll
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain of Plasma
2 Lightning Storm
3 Pyroclasm
4 Force of Will
4 Daze
3 Counterbalance
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
3 Predict
I really wanted to try out Swan Combo in Thresh and was tired of playing Goblins. I did well, but my meta is pretty bad. Only 3 rounds at the store I'm at. I could go about 2 miles away to get a better meta and 4 rounds for cheaper, but that'd mean I get done at like 11 instead of 9.
Round 1 was against T2 RG Beats featuring Countryside Crusher, Goyf, and Chameleon Colossus. I went 2-0, pulling off the combo both times.
Round 2 vs White Soldier Weenie. Game 1, I counter everything until and go all the way with a Goyf. Game 2 he mulls to 4 and I go all the way with a Goyf again.
Round 3 vs Boros Burn. Game 1 isn't even close, Swan Combo FTW. Game 2 he drops Red Kamahl and somehow buffs him to 14 power and swings which would leave me at 2. He has 1 card in hand, and 1 mountain open, so before damage I Bolt my tapped Swan and draw into the combo ftw. He had a Shock in hand.
I know there's a bunch of Red Variants right now(Moon, Tempo and least talked about Swan) but any ideas as to what I could do to improve it? I was sad to drop Goose, but very happy to have Clasm.
17 lands in a build with swans and counter/top? Is this correct, because I think you rerally would like to hit 4 mana with consistency. Always having to ponder/top up lands kinda stinks. Also, do counter/top and swans combo go in the same deck? They both seem to fill that slow, game ending slot to me, and one or the other should be enough. I feel if you're running swans you want to play some faster countermagic to speed yourself up some.
On an unrelated note, I took the Canadian version to a T8 at the 107-man GP side event last weekend. I liked the deck a lot, but the one thing people always got on me about was 0 basics. I've seen many lists of this type with 0, and it makes sense to me, but does anyone have thoughts on what adding a few would do? Also, I can post a report if you guys wanna hear about it (uninteresting for the most part). I went 5-0-2 (IDs) and lost to 43 (42..41..not sure) lands in the first single-elim round.
43 Lands is just a tough MU. As long as you can keep them off manabond/exploration and win quick, you have a shot, but it's really ugly. There's not much you can do about it without totally changing the deck, it seems to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by MULocke
I'm aware that I lose the lands matchup anyway. Honestly, I'm okay with that. I'm talking about more for things like aggro-loam and moon effects from Dragon Stompy (I hear it most from my friend playing this deck).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mental
Congratulations on your finish. What list did you use, with which sideboard?Quote:
Originally Posted by MULocke
Please do not add basics into this deck. The deck begs for all colors all the time, and running basics gets you color screwed, I have tried it. You always fetch the basic early, and then you are left with 1 or no other colors to use. This deck runs off 1-2 mana, so if one of those lands is an Island, you are either missing R or G for the deck to function.
43 Lands is a known tough matchup, and it is very difficult to play against.
I usually win the Dragon Stompy MU. All it requires is getting early beats (hopefully a Goyf + Goose, or something like that) and smashing face. Save your counters for creatures in the late game, and moon/chalice early on. See, once you have beats going, it doesn't really matter if they drop moon/chalice - you're probably going to win anyways. Dragon Stompy has trouble dealing with a bunch of 5/6 beaters.
BTW, my Dragon Stompy MU is a bit better than normal because I play 2 additional beaters (Werebear).
Q: Isnt blood moon a really good choice for the SB as like a 2 of. You can find it easily, but also almost instant wins the 4X lands matchup doesnt it?
I also think no basics are necessary (I used none), but I've had many people tell me otherwise and I just wanted to make sure it is the consensus (excludes moonthresh obv). As for my list, I played a stock canadian thresh build with the singleton bounce spells, and my sideboard was half well-thought out and half thrown together:Quote:
Originally Posted by goobafish
2 crypt
2 EE
4 redblasts (2/2 split)
3 trygon predator
2 krosan grip
2 pyroclasm
blood moon (actually, magus?) seems good if i run into many lands decks. Another idea that came to me is price of progress. moon effects seem better tho.
Yes. However, be warned that you need to build your manabase specifically to handle Blood Moon yourself, with Wooded Foothills and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by undone