[Deck] Dredge

Man that's what I've been trying to say with that post above yours par. A lotta dudes I see on SCG with these top 8 position decks are running with these garbage fuckin lists that wouldn't make the finals in the tiny-ass once a week legacy events my LGS flips, man.

I tried netdecking ryan daly's(dredgekid, respect)list at the shop and I got tore down fast. Maybe it's just a failure on my part because I just don't get how to flex it. I'm not a fan at all of these lists that run tons of dread return targets main. Before the main event I was playing this friend who has an OK burn deck, like as far as burn can compete you know what I mean it's got a couple holes in it(refuses to run barbarian ring, doesnt wanna try out baubleburn/shrapnel blast at all that type of ish)but it's solid and daly's list was going like maybe 50/50 against that shit.

I mean come on man dredge does something totallly different than reanimator. If you wanna run reanimator do that herbert west elsewhere. Leave the fatty recursion to a deck that can bring it hard on turn 2. Realistically on game two you rely a lot more on dread returns because G1 you can just keep bringing ichorids back like he forgot his lip balms and he brings like what 1-2 tokens with him on average you can just grind people down with that. G1 even a GGT that's like 15/15 is just you winning with even less vaseline. I don't wanna scuff people playing these lists because results are results, right. And faithless looting in non LED lists..I don't think I'll even run one mainboard when it comes out february. Its a strong card par but does it even have a place in the sideboard for LEDless decks? Get at me on this.

I don't think Ryan daly's list is bad at all. My list is very similar.

I would run underground river over sea because of merfolk. Also, people are apprehensive to wasteland the river.
I think darkblast is better than angel of despair.

Outside of those small changes it is a very solid list. This is the same guy who got second place at a different SCG right?

You see every one likes to say LEDless>LED dredge but when LED dredge does prove itself you guys are quick to dismiss it.

I believe LED dredge is better positioned in the current metagame. For starters it doesn't roll over to maverick. Secondly it is fast enough to handle the likes of reanimator and storm.

Also, I have never lost to burn or zoo with LED dredge. Never.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

I don't think Ryan daly's list is bad at all. My list is very similar.

I would run underground river over sea because of merfolk. Also, people are apprehensive to wasteland the river.
I think darkblast is better than angel of despair.

Outside of those small changes it is a very solid list. This is the same guy who got second place at a different SCG right?

You see every one likes to say LEDless>LED dredge but when LED dredge does prove itself you guys are quick to dismiss it.

I believe LED dredge is better positioned in the current metagame. For starters it doesn't roll over to maverick. Secondly it is fast enough to handle the likes of reanimator and storm.

Also, I have never lost to burn or zoo with LED dredge. Never.

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LED Dredge is awsome, and much funnier to play. It's nice to see your foe's face when you make 10 zombies in turn 1, lol. I'd love to gather my LEDs back and start brewing a list again (just recovered 2 of them).

And since Storm Combo is now tier 1 again, people are not selling LEDs ):

But, I'll wait for Faithless Looting to be legal to test my LED list again. My LEDless is giving me plently rewards, with the Leyline of the Void sideboard.

This is what I'll test after february:

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Tarnished Citadel

4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid

4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Breakthrough
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug

2 Dread Return
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
1 Flame-kin Zealot/Woodfall Primus

SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation

Any thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

LED Dredge is awsome, and much funnier to play. It's nice to see your foe's face when you make 10 zombies in turn 1, lol. I'd love to gather my LEDs back and start brewing a list again (just recovered 2 of them).

And since Storm Combo is now tier 1 again, people are not selling LEDs ):

But, I'll wait for Faithless Looting to be legal to test my LED list again. My LEDless is giving me plently rewards, with the Leyline of the Void sideboard.

This is what I'll test after february:

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
1 Tarnished Citadel

4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
3 Ichorid

4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Faithless Looting
4 Breakthrough
4 Lion's Eye Diamond

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Thug

2 Dread Return
1 Sphinx of Lost Truths
1 Flame-kin Zealot/Woodfall Primus

SB: 4 Chain of Vapor
SB: 4 Leyline of the Void
SB: 3 Ancient Grudge
SB: 2 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
SB: 1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
SB: 1 Ray of Revelation

Any thoughts?

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Not running Sun Titan is a huge mistake imo!

To the above: its alot about metagaming.
I dont like Ryan's list very much and I did say that before, but people got to run what works best for them. There is a difference tho. Whily Ryan's top8 decklist was solid, there were just a few choices I didn't like(there we are again, metagaming), this top8 list is just so fucking bad it's not even funny anymore.
@Faithless Looting: Sideboard???? This is fucking Careful Study revamped! If I were to play LEDless then(which wont happen for the first few months) I would definately and gladly cut all my Breakthroughs for a card that good.

Without LED, Faithless Looting is significantly worse than Breakthrough and Careful Study. It's obviously also worse than Putrid Imp and Tireless Tribe. The only question is, "Is it better than Winds of Change?" I can't say yet.

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Originally Posted by Izor

Also, the second top4 finish was in the Invitaional, where they actually played Standard as well. His record in Standard was 6-1 and Legacy only 5-2, so his Legacy finish alone wouldn't even got him to top 8.

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he scooped gerry into top 8 so thats why he has the second loss in legacy.

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Originally Posted by Anusien

Without LED, Faithless Looting is significantly worse than Breakthrough and Careful Study. It's obviously also worse than Putrid Imp and Tireless Tribe. The only question is, "Is it better than Winds of Change?" I can't say yet.

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This isn't necessarily true, FL is better than BT as a discard outlet, and gives you more chance of opening a fast hand, even if not as fast as a hand with BT, still faster than a hand with BT that can't discard.

I want to play LEDd redge but you know I'd also like to buy groceries this week hm decisions

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Originally Posted by wutangkillabeezonaswarm

I want to play LEDd redge but you know I'd also like to buy groceries this week hm decisions

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You can eat your Magic cards if you have to, but you can't turn one kill an ANT deck with your groceries.

I think it is obvious what you should do here.

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Originally Posted by wutangkillabeezonaswarm

I want to play LEDd redge but you know I'd also like to buy groceries this week hm decisions

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Solely eat ramen for one week -> LEDs. Seriously though, I highly recommend getting them, especially before the new set comes out since its market clearing price might jump yet again (not super likely, but definitely possible).

Also, I'm glad to see another Wu-Tang fan here on The Source. I often wear my old beat up Wu-Tang shirt to big tournaments for good luck, along with my Daunte Culpepper jersey.

You guys are awesome.

@Anusien
I respectfully but heartfully disagree with the whole Statement. I do find Careful Study both better than Breakthrough and better than Permaoutlets. In LEDless , Lootings is not better than Study due to color but it is the next best thing imo.

Saying Putrid Imp is better than Faithless Looting is like comparing Apples and Oranges, and considering you don't even need to play Putrid Imp given the performance of Manaless Dredge and Phantasmagorian plus the addition of Lion's Eye Diamond and Breakthrough I'd say it's just a completely retarded statement. Putrid Imp is dated tech, people don't run Crypts like they used to.

That aside, how well are you guys supporting Faithless Looting and your SB cards with Cephalid Coliseum?

Guys, I`m still with doubts regarding to sideboard and Muligan ...

Lets say we are playing against Reanimator .... so u will SB 4x LotV and maybe a couple of CoV ...

And then .... if these cards don`t come in your openning hand??? Do u Mulligan till u find one?? It happend with me to not Mulligan (very good hand) and my oponend did Elesh Norn T2...

I think we should discuss a few strategies of SB and Mullingan against the top tier decks.

I really don't know how Loting will affect LEDless Dredge. This is clearly one of those things you'll just have to try and test as soon as the card comes out and see how well the deck runs with / without them. I don't think we can realistically claim that the one or the other thing is true here. This deck is very specific in its card choices and when we replace a card with a different one, it's possible that the deck will run less smoothly, even if that new card might look better on paper.

The card has a lot of potential, but so have all the other cards in the deck. The unchangeable core of the deck already has at least 44 cards (14 Land, 11 Dredgers, 4 CT, 3 Ichorid, 4 Narcs, 4 Bridge, 4 PImp), and I can only seem myself play Lootings over any of the remaining 16 obviously.

Personally, I think that Careful Study is better in LEDless and I'm pretty sure I will play 4 of those before even touching the first Lootings.

I also won't replace Breakthrough. If this deck somehow wants to claim it's explosiveness and have realistic means to beat dedicated Combo decks as well as decks that can drop something scary by turn 2-3 (say Ooze), BT is the one and only MVP. Now imagine we'd had Lootings since Odyssey and BT was just spoilered now. I'm pretty sure the whole community would cry for december bannings of Dredge's core cards even before that scary BT card would ever come out and ruin the format. That might be a bit exaggerated, but still. I see that we often don't need BT to win. But it's still the card the everyone has to fear and that just outright wins you the game when it resolves. A CC1 spell that does all that. And it can even be used as a discard outlet (something many people underestimate), especially game 1, where you don't have to prevent overextending your bin.

All in all, I can see myself play it over some Tribes and/or Firestorms whie testing. Maybe I'll also try to play it in addition to those while cutting something like the last DR and the 12 Dredger, but I'm not sure yet.



As of LED it's probably an auto-4-off. I'll have to see if that improvement makes me play LEDs over LEDless then (I don't think it will).

Sun Titan is definitely an option there. Still, everything you'll mostly bring back is CC or LED and in both cases Sphinx of Lost Truths would do the same for you. I mean the titan can attack and trigger again, but that is only a corner case. This is still not Vintage, though, where Titan is the very best creature you can ever DR dur to the insane synergies with Bloodghast and Bazaar.

oh no we're not in the DTB section anymore.

Guys, what do you think about SB Leyline of Santicity against Tormod's Crypt ???

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Originally Posted by Dravus Mallinard

Guys, what do you think about SB Leyline of Santicity against Tormod's Crypt ???

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You would need 4, and with the presence of Surgical Extraction it just does not seem worth it IMO.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by wutangkillabeezonaswarm

oh no we're not in the DTB section anymore.

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You know this is actually good, right? :wink:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gui

You know this is actually good, right? :wink:

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Dredge doesn't show in large numbers in tournaments because it's a deck that requires a lot of organization and thinking (the same goes for any Combo, in general). I mean, you have to organize your graveyard in a way you can see every revelant card, and know what to use each time. It kind of sucks that in the Eternal Formats, you can't change the order of your graveyard, because, otherwise, it'd be so simple: make an "useless" pile: Lands/Draw Spells and the "useful" pile: Creatures, Bridges and Cabal Therapies.

Anyway, why did I say that bunch of crap? Because to become a DTB, you need competitive records in the major tournaments, in which the number of players piloting the deck is relevant (and dredge is a small percentage of the field). But, a good pilot can always crush every DTB with ease, specially the blue controlish ones.

OK so how exactly is everyone preparing for Surgical Extraction / Snapcaster Mage? That is really what this format consists of right now. Why is everyone playing a bunch of Nature's Claims? And why exactly is Unmask a bad SB card?

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

OK so how exactly is everyone preparing for Surgical Extraction / Snapcaster Mage? That is really what this format consists of right now. Why is everyone playing a bunch of Nature's Claims? And why exactly is Unmask a bad SB card?

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We're using Leyline of the Void or DDD + mana open for Coffin Purge/Purify the Grave against Extraction + Snapcaster Mage.

Nature's Claim is for an irracional fear of Leyline of the Void (just to be secure you won't auto-lose against it). People dislike playing in tournaments against an auto-scoop. It randomly helps against other decks, but Terastodon/Woodfall Primus/Angel of Despair does that pretty well.

Unmask isn't a bad SB card, but the drawback is usually relevant, because we don't play many black pieces in our deck that can be removed just like that. I personally find the card very powerful in many matchups. But it usually means removing your single Dredger, or Putrid Imp/Ichorid to grab something from your foe. I'll give it a try again to confirm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

OK so how exactly is everyone preparing for Surgical Extraction / Snapcaster Mage? That is really what this format consists of right now. Why is everyone playing a bunch of Nature's Claims? And why exactly is Unmask a bad SB card?

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Snapcaster/Extraction: I'm using 3* Coffin Purge/Purify the Grave. I think those + Therapies are the best way to fight it and I can still consistently beat Snapcaster decks with them.
Nature's Claim: Gets rid of Leylines, Batterskull, Ensnaring Bridge, etc. It also forces the activation of the likes of Crypts, Relics, and Deeds.
Unmask: It requires you to exile a card (most likely one you want/need for the combo), Prevents possible DDD, and it doesn't have flashback. Now, if the alternative cost was 'discard a black card' this would be a whole different story.

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Originally Posted by Vandalize

We're using Leyline of the Void or DDD + mana open for Coffin Purge/Purify the Grave against Extraction + Snapcaster Mage.

Nature's Claim is for an irracional fear of Leyline of the Void (just to be secure you won't auto-lose against it). People dislike playing in tournaments against an auto-scoop. It randomly helps against other decks, but Terastodon/Woodfall Primus/Angel of Despair does that pretty well.

Unmask isn't a bad SB card, but the drawback is usually relevant, because we don't play many black pieces in our deck that can be removed just like that. I personally find the card very powerful in many matchups. But it usually means removing your single Dredger, or Putrid Imp/Ichorid to grab something from your foe. I'll give it a try again to confirm.

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OK thanks. Yeah I have no idea how to play this deck, so I am trying to learn some of the SBing strategies for the current metagame. Noob question - what is DDD? And is Leyline enough for those decks; do you find yourself only boarding in Leyline if you are going that route? And has anyone tried Memory's Journey? It seems like a great way to beat Surgical plus splash hate on Reanimator, but I don't know.

Edit: Draw Discard Dredger??? That is my guess :)

Planning for post-Faithless Looting metagame. I think a deck like LED Dredge would be a great way to win some GP Indy Trials if the metagame doesn't shift a ton. Here is my list so far:

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting

4 Bridge from Below

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum

SB
4 Memory's Journey
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Nature's Claim
4 Firestorm
1 Ancestor's Chosen

I really want a couple Ancient Grudges in the SB, but the 6 Leyline hate is nice I guess (even though I likely won't play against it...). Chains and Firestorms are used to beat Maverick (Knights and Oozes). Memory's Journey seems solid against Surgical, but I am waiting on feedback. The 2 Lotus Petal MD is pretty much because I HATE the other gold lands, and it gets pretty explosive when you are playing 4 Lootings with the Breakthroughs. So yeah biggest thing for me right now is Claims vs. Grudges or maybe even a couple Chains turn into Grudges idk. I'm getting ahead of myself with Faithless Looting, so I hope that isn't breaking a thread rule; I saw it being discussed earlier.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

OK thanks. Yeah I have no idea how to play this deck, so I am trying to learn some of the SBing strategies for the current metagame. Noob question - what is DDD? And is Leyline enough for those decks; do you find yourself only boarding in Leyline if you are going that route? And has anyone tried Memory's Journey? It seems like a great way to beat Surgical plus splash hate on Reanimator, but I don't know.

Edit: Draw Discard Dredger??? That is my guess :)

Planning for post-Faithless Looting metagame. I think a deck like LED Dredge would be a great way to win some GP Indy Trials if the metagame doesn't shift a ton. Here is my list so far:

4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Golgari Thug
4 Putrid Imp
4 Narcomoeba
4 Ichorid
1 Flame-Kin Zealot

4 Breakthrough
4 Cabal Therapy
2 Dread Return
4 Faithless Looting

4 Bridge from Below

4 Lion's Eye Diamond
2 Lotus Petal

4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum

SB
4 Memory's Journey
4 Chain of Vapor
2 Nature's Claim
4 Firestorm
1 Ancestor's Chosen

I really want a couple Ancient Grudges in the SB, but the 6 Leyline hate is nice I guess (even though I likely won't play against it...). Chains and Firestorms are used to beat Maverick (Knights and Oozes). Memory's Journey seems solid against Surgical, but I am waiting on feedback. The 2 Lotus Petal MD is pretty much because I HATE the other gold lands, and it gets pretty explosive when you are playing 4 Lootings with the Breakthroughs. So yeah biggest thing for me right now is Claims vs. Grudges or maybe even a couple Chains turn into Grudges idk. I'm getting ahead of myself with Faithless Looting, so I hope that isn't breaking a thread rule; I saw it being discussed earlier.

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Just some advice you might find useful: running the petals probably is not neccessary,I for example am using only the 12 lands and it is enough for me.
Also the numbers of thugs and Ichorids might Wannsee switch, running 3 Ichorids and 4 Thugs. You wont be able to attack with Ichorid that often if everything goes well.
Why did you cut studies? I am slightly irritated. Doesn't it make more sense to play 8 studies and only 2 breakthroughs if you cut petals? The study effect is much better imo. Might need some testing this.
Last issue I have with your maindeck: the DR target. Now this is mostly a personal crusade right here but why ever play this card? It says win more like nothing else. Now, if you do this because of a Combo heavy Meta, you might wanna test Iona in this slot.If
it is just to have a powerful target, try Sun Titan or Primus/Vindicate. Those have a lot more utility and also helps when things go badly. If you insist on Zealot, add 1 sphinx imo.
On the sideboard, you have to decide on Chain vs Claim. Both are perfectly good choices but playing a total of 6 antileyline cards is overkill. SB space in Dredge is extremely tight. You also really need some Elesh Norn against the mirror after looting,is legal. Memory's journey does nothing better than purify imo but if you really want the shuffle back ability I guess it is worth a shot. If I were to build your SB(assuming that you want Firestorm,rather than play the racing game) it would look like this :
3 Journey/ Purify
3 Claim/Chain
(1 Ray of Revelation)
4 Firestorm
3 Ancient Grudge
1 Iona
(1 Elesh Norn)
As you See, Firestorm takes up a lot of space.

Hope I could help.

Edith: also, DDD =draw discard dredge,aka slowdredging.

3 answers to Leyline isn't enough. Many decks with LL also have some sort of counter magic and if you want to reliably remove it, you'll have to play at the very least 4, if not 5 answers. Also I wouldn't play Rays any more. Two mana is a huge deal.

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Originally Posted by Izor

3 answers to Leyline isn't enough. Many decks with LL also have some sort of counter magic and if you want to reliably remove it, you'll have to play at the very least 4, if not 5 answers. Also I wouldn't play Rays any more. Two mana is a huge deal.

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Recastability is a big deal also. Playing 1 Ray is effectively 2 answers to leyline,except the other guy runs Spell Snare.
There are 4 answers to leyline in the sb btw. Anyway, I wouldn't run Firestorm at all I think, so there would be more space.
If you insist on running Firestorm Side, I think that's one of the best ways to do so.

It's true that Ray can destroy a second, later hard cast Leyline. I wouldn't really say it accounts for two answers, because neither does it increase your odds of drawing an answer nor does it deal with a Double-Leyline opener. But yes, of course the Flashback is relevant. I also used to run it but since I've lost several games on the play when Ray gave my opponent the chance to protect its Leyline with Daze or a discard spell (Thoughtseize, Inquisition and Duress) and since I've also lost games when I couldn't find the second land in time, I've moved away from Ray.


Also, I just read that you wouldn't use Firestorm any more. I'm just curious why? I remember you saying that 4 in the main deck is a must in LEDless. Do you think that LED will be THAT much faster that Firestorm won't be needed at all?

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Originally Posted by Izor

It's true that Ray can destroy a second, later hard cast Leyline. I wouldn't really say it accounts for two answers, because neither does it increase your odds of drawing an answer nor does it deal with a Double-Leyline opener. But yes, of course the Flashback is relevant. I also used to run it but since I've lost several games on the play when Ray gave my opponent the chance to protect its Leyline with Daze or a discard spell (Thoughtseize, Inquisition and Duress) and since I've also lost games when I couldn't find the second land in time, I've moved away from Ray.


Also, I just read that you wouldn't use Firestorm any more. I'm just curious why? I remember you saying that 4 in the main deck is a must in LEDless. Do you think that LED will be THAT much faster that Firestorm won't be needed at all?

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Exactly that.
Against GW I would not board out LED because all they really have is (most of the times) turn 2/3 ooze or turn 2/3 knight. With LEDs speed, testing showed that Ooze becomes much more irrelevant. Knight has the problem of only having to be active ONCE to win. Still, I believe with a proper Sideboard( in LED I will actually use Chains)
that can be dealt with, too.
In short: LED races the crap out of Scavenging Ooze, all day.

Thanks for all the input. Regarding Maverick, I have seen most lists running 2 E Tutor and an artifact GY hate in the SB. I know this is what I am running in my Mav deck, and Gerry T ran it as well.

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

Thanks for all the input. Regarding Maverick, I have seen most lists running 2 E Tutor and an artifact GY hate in the SB. I know this is what I am running in my Mav deck, and Gerry T ran it as well.

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Oh,never seen that here so far. Still I believe it's not a bad MU anymore, Ooze is not enough. That was the reason Maverick preyed on us imo.Chains do the job, Ancient Grudge , too.
Edit: Against E-Tutor stuff, I believe that Tribes are more viable than Firestorm btw.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Patrunkenphat7

Thanks for all the input. Regarding Maverick, I have seen most lists running 2 E Tutor and an artifact GY hate in the SB. I know this is what I am running in my Mav deck, and Gerry T ran it as well.

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With my playtesting against maverick this is the biggest problem, the e tutor package.

LED is much better positioned to fight maverick than LEDless. However, the E tutor plan can make it so we must win on turn 1 or 2. If we don't win quick they start to wasteland our lands and get creatures like ooze and knight online while e tutoring exactly what they need.

It's tough to fight relic/tormod's or wheel of fate. This is one of those oddball times I would want leyline of sanctity in the SB.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

With my playtesting against maverick this is the biggest problem

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Played @a local tournament, finished 3-3 - lost twice against Wheel of Sun and Moon (just when I thought I didn't need Ray of Revelation) and 1-2 against Reanimator, with him winning first turn with with Dark Ritual/Entomb/Reanimate on Elesh Norn and continuing with a Blazing Archon ruining my day with him at 4 life and 6 cards left in his deck (Purify the Grave on Elesh Norn and Angel of Despair already on the battlefield, sad times). I currently don't know how to behave against Maverick, as people here plays hate in mixed form: how am I supposed to handle 1x Tormod's Crypt/1x Wheel of Sun and Moon/2x Surgical Extraction + maindeck Scavenging Ooze and Bojuka Bog?

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SB: 4 [WWK] Nature's Claim
SB: 3 [TSP] Ancient Grudge
SB: 3 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 3 [ISD] Purify the Grave
SB: 2 [JU] Ray of Revelation
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This is my current sideboard. I play 8 draw spells, 14 lands, 8 permanent discard outlets, 4 Ichorids and maindeck Iona. Any help is appreciated.

I want to replace Iona her with Angel of Despair: since I'm not going "combo-mode" anymore, as my former goal was playing a fast 7/7, do you think going down to 2x Dread Return is enough to support a dedicated target?

P.S. - I find it weird but I noticed many players tend to cast Surgical Extraction as soon as they see a dredger, thus my plan of boarding in Purify the Grave + Darkblast (to increase the dredger count) has made me quite happy as I never lost to Snapcaster Mage.

I rly dont know your problems.( all who are scared against maverick.)
Our biggest problem is Nic Fit.
I played against some of those and i cried.
Maindeck:
1 ooze
4 deeds
Sideboard:
3 leyline
3 extraction
What the hell.

I can definitely say, this is a bad matchup.

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Originally Posted by K1w1

I rly dont know your problems.( all who are scared against maverick.)
Our biggest problem is Nic Fit.
I played against some of those and i cried.
Maindeck:
1 ooze
4 deeds
Sideboard:
3 leyline
3 extraction
What the hell.

I can definitely say, this is a bad matchup.

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This. Nic Fit is atm our worst possible MU, that is correct.
Though the preboard match against them is even worse than postboard imo.Totally forgot about the deck tbh, but you are definately right.

Ya know, against such decks that have so many diversified hate against us...

the best thing is to board back entirely for game three and go for the 2nd turn blowout on the play. That's the best weapon against Relic, Ooze, Bojuka Bog, Wheel of S&M, Deed and all that crap.

However, if they have Leyline I always board against that.

If they then draw their singleton Crypt or have the Extraction and you don't have a second Dredger, well then so be it. Can't win them all. The Storm Player also doesn't win through Leyline of Sanctity + Mindbreak Trap + Ethersworn Canonist and the Merfolk player won't beat Lavamancer plus Llawan plus Choke.

In my limited testing against Nic Fit, I have found it to not that tough. Ooze isn't so scary as it is in Maverick. Deed is one of those cards I can play around with no sweat.

However, if half their sideboard is graveyard destruction it can get tough. Leyline backed up with thoughtseize is always difficult, but not impossible to beat.

One time I played against a monoblack deck with relics + leylines of the void. Game three I just brought in all my pithing needles and chains of vapors. His deck was so diluted and reliant on his anti graveyard packages that I won with ease.

Again, Leyline of the Void is really fine against Nic Fit. Because Veteran Explorer must hit GY to trigger, and without this ramp, their deck is just a massive amount of cool expensive spells stuck in hand (such as Grave Titan).

If they don't run their own LotV, it's not that hard. If you can hit Breakthrough/Study/Coliseum before they can reach 4 lands, you won.

All Rockish decks are tough (and by rockish, I mean BGW). They can pack so many kinds of hate.

My friend is brewing some funny Dredge list: 17 Lands, 12 Dredgers, no Breakthrough, 4 Ichorids, and some nice SB stuff: Ground Seal, Stony Silence and Realm Razer among his DR-Targets.

We'll playtest in a while, and I'll report the performance.

Interesting, I'd like to hear how the 17 lands work out. I've been thinking about going up to 16 for a while and I'm pretty sure if there was a better third gold land, I would've done it.

Ground Seal is actually really good against all that Snapcaster-Extraction shenanigans. I've been testing this for almost a month now.

Realm Razer is very good as well. I almost always have one in my board. People underestimate it.

And why not Null Rod over Stony Silence? Can be cast off CC, so it seems better.

I'd like to hear about this version, too. If you had some testgames with your friend, let us know.
I'm rly interested in, too. I hate Extraction + Snappy.
Share your experience with us pls.
K1w1

@ HokusSchmokus: Are you in Iserlohn at 29.1.12 and 5.2.12? We can discuss a bit if you want.

Edit: And 7.1.12 in Frankfurt?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by K1w1

I'd like to hear about this version, too. If you had some testgames with your friend, let us know.
I'm rly interested in, too. I hate Extraction + Snappy.
Share your experience with us pls.
K1w1

@ HokusSchmokus: Are you in Iserlohn at 29.1.12 and 5.2.12? We can discuss a bit if you want.

Edit: And 7.1.12 in Frankfurt?

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Not Frankfurt. The rest , I don't know. 27.12. Auenland Event tho!