I think they upped it 20$. Or maybe even more.
Printable View
I think they upped it 20$. Or maybe even more.
A friend of mine bought his Karakas for 72,52$ apiece, yesterday evening. (Judge Promo, NM). The average price on MCM jumped to 103$ in the last few hours.
Congrats to D&T for Straßburg
Congrats to the winner and other top 8 of the GP!
Seing Thomas winning the finals yesterday.. Awesome :D
Him and his team mate Michael Bonde are - in my view - the 2 best Death and Taxes players, that I know of.
I can understand, that D'n'T isn't such a great deal in the states.. Such a shame..
I have tried to play it, but it doesn't suit my playstyle, but these 2 guys know how to play it :D
More Death and Taxes players.... PLEASE! :D
Always been a fan of DnT. USed to play it and have been wanting to pick it up again.
Anyways, is Serra Avenger still viable? Or has it been replaced in favor for Mirran Crusader due to all the Abrupt Decay/BUG kinds of stuff?
Death and Taxes seems to have all the right tools to become a Tier 1 competitor in Legacy.
-Robust mana-base that doesn't crumple easily to Wasteland
-Cheap removal (StP)
-1-mana "planeswalker" (Mother of Runes - makes creatures unblockable, immune to removal, makes attacking ground creatures deal no damage, etc.)
-Broad answer cards (Mangara, Oblivion Ring, Phyrexian Revoker)
-Method of generating tempo and disruption to hate out Blue control archetypes (Wasteland, Rishadan Port, Aven Mindcensor, Thalia, Aether Vial)
-2-mana "I win" button against many forms of aggro (SFM -> Batterskull/Jitte)
-3-mana "I practically win" button against Jund/BUG (Mirran Crusader)
-Ability to hate out combo decks (a relatively fast clock combined with disruption provided by Thalia, Karakas, Oblivion Ring, sideboard options like Ethersword Canonist, Rest in Peace etc.)
Literally the only thing it seems to lack is deck manipulation/card draw (Ponder, Brainstorm, etc.). But I could imagine the deck splashing Green for Sylvan Library or perhaps something else if really necessary.
This deck looks like it can beat the crap out of SnT decks. Am I wrong?
Yeah, pretty much :) I could start to interpret Thomas explanation, but I think it's better, that he explains why ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by UnsungHero
It has a real good matchup against SnT decks, as it has so many relevant cards MD against it, and even more after boarding.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Speaking of SnT decks, Thomas Enevoldsen's quarterfinal match against Sneaky Show had an epic game 1 with him surviving 1 Griselbrand swing (another one was Mangara'd before it had a chance to swing) and 2 Emrakul swings.
I think you're over-hyping the deck a bit, the mana base isn't really "robust" and immune to wasteland, a typical list runs 13-14 non-basics, 8 of which only produce colorless mana and (sometimes) 1 that only produces conditional white mana (Cavern.) In D&T mirror for example the player on the play can typically crush the opponents mana base.Quote:
Originally Posted by wcm8
Mirran Crusader isn't as much of an "I practically win" against Jund due to Punishing Fire (which unfortunately is commonly played in many decks) there has actually been quite a bit of debate over whether Mirran Crusader is even maindeckable due to his weakness to red spells.
As far as the matchup vs combo, D&T has a terrible one against the extremely fast combo decks (Tin Fins, Belcher, ANT, basically any deck capable of going off T1.) This is because D&T has no T1 answers, beyond a Karakas in specific matchups, but even that doesn't always stop the opponent even when you get to use it (vs Tin Fins for example,) there has even been debate about running Judge's Familiar in the maindeck just to combat this problem for the times you actually get to play a land before losing. I mean I'm not saying that these combo decks always go off T1, and when D&T CAN land some hate it's definitely strong, but the fast combo decks go off T1 ENOUGH to cause problems for D&T in a tournament setting.
Anyway you made a few valid points but as I said I think you're over-hyping the deck. Yes it had a great performance at GP Strasbourg but it was a good field for D&T and thus was a better choice then it would have been in a different/common sort of meta.
I always here DnT is a Metadeck. Can anyone explain to me how different metas would look like? Seriously, the GP meta is not that much different to the regular SCG Open meta, except for that there may be more Esper Blade decks at opens... Actually I think the deck is just stone cold solid and may have been an underdog all the time because it never had a strong finish at high calibour tournaments, so no one ever even tried ( except for the few fanboys who tweaked it on every new set release ). Seriously, the deck was under everyones radar and I'm sure a lot of people at the GP have never before played against it - which makes the deck exponentially better, as it's extremely tricky and even more so if you don't know what to expect.
Despite it's succes, I don't think more people will pick it up, as 4 Karakas is prohibitive for a lot of people ( would love to try it - but no way ).
Love that feeling when your opponent asks to read Flickerwisp.Quote:
Originally Posted by dunkle_stille
Grats to Thomas and Michael!
Congrats to the online Death and Taxes community. :confused:
Looking at the D&T lists that made top eight and won at the Grand Prix, I'm struck by the inclusions of Mirran Crusader and Aven Mindcensor and the omissions of Thalia and Serra Avenger. Crusader and Mindcensor have not been too common in D&T lists for a while. I think that the arrival of Deathrite Shaman has given them more value. Shaman has pulled more players to black and green decks, where Crusader shines. These decks also run extra fetchlands and GSZ, so Mindcensor also becomes a stronger choice than it was pre-Return to Ravnica. Phyrexian Revoker also performs very well in today's Legacy. It's hard to argue against playing four. D&T players today certainly have a lot of interesting choices.
Mirran Crusader dodges most of the removal of BUG decks and it`s really hard to deal for these decks. Actually they were playing Thalias.. 4-of maindeck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
There are 4 thalia in the list. I wouldnt imagine playing the deck without it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Justin
I've loved this deck since I first borrowed the deck from a friend and won a Jupiter Games (Vestal, New York) and started foiling my own copy out with my winnings that evening (Everything minus the 4 Karakas are foil, hate the huge shooting star and like the original art better anyway). I've played the Crusader since a month or two after it was printed and Leonin Arbiters in my list from the start since I didn't have Enlightened Tutors at the time and I found them to be quite amazing, resp. to fetch, Vial in Arbiter?
This is one of the few threads I check everyday since I love seeing what others are doing with one of my two favorite decks (Forgemaster MUD being the other, I love decks with tricks and I tend to do well with them). I'm very happy that it performed so well and put it on the radar for many a player.
from Cairo, I do so love when they have to read Flickerwisp (hardest foil to find by far), just gives you that warm feeling inside. I've had people call a judge over numerous times because they didn't understand the interaction with Mangara and Karakas/Vial Flickerwisp too.
Think I may have to dust off my deck after not playing it for a couple months here pretty soon.
Can anyone provide a link to the replay of Thomas's win against SnT where he beat attacks from both Griselbrand and Emrakul? If no video, maybe a transcript of what happened?
Congratulations to Thomas for taking this home! This Deck is so cool that I don't care that much for losing against it in the quarterfinals ;)
to make it short:Quote:
Originally Posted by nudon
Board state: many lands and sneak attack vs thalia with jitte and mangara.
Griselbrand attacks via sneak attack, draws another griselbrand that gets mangara'ed (can't remember why he did not use mangara on Sneak attack at that point, probably because snt player was going to draw 7 cards anyway and may be able to play show and tell to put another fatty in play).
SnT player draws intuition, plays it, thomas answered with aven mindsencor and chooses to give him another intuition (useless with mindsencor in play) and starts beating with thalia equipped with jitte.
Snt player finally find emrakul, attacks with it. Thomas blocks it with mindsencor but looses many permanents. Thalia is still there with jitte and 2 lands.
As Mindsencor is not there anymore, snt player casts the intuition that Thomas gave him earlier, and uses sneak attack to put it in play and attack thomas. Thanks to jitte counters, thomas stay barely alive and has no permanents in play. He had kept a land in hand and has a creature in hand.
SnT players doesn't draw emrakul or griselbrand and thomas manages to find respectively:
colorless land.
Phyrexian revoker --> FoW
WHite land
THalia --> FoW
Aether vial --> FoW
Stoneforge mystic --> finally hits the table, does not search for anything, plays batterskull he had in hand and wins the next turn :p
Epic Game :p
I think D&T used to be a fringe deck, but it has recently hit a critical mass of good weenie cards.
StoneForge Mystic
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Mirran Crusader
Phyrexian Revoker
From casual play, I can confirm the fact that Mirran Crusader is batshit good with equipment.
The real test for this deck will be in the months to come to see f it can handle the meta shifting towards it. Course, this shouldn't be a problem for a attack that can survive a Griselbrand and to Emrakul attacks. :laugh:
The main reason it is where it is today is probably Thalia. She gives us a solution against combo decks and she's also a great beater with Jitte against creature decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
I don't think the meta will shift towards D&T. it's a pretty hard deck to play, there are many interactions that make decision making difficult. Also, lots of people will not buy in 4 karakas just to test a deck.
And the lack of brainstorm :) lots of people don't like decks that do not have Blue and / or CA...
I am one of those people. If it doesn't have some number of Brainstorms, I don't want to play it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
It's funny, because I'm the opposite. If it doesn't have Brainstorm, I'm interested.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
Thanks Tylert for the recap! Wish I could have watched it since the match sounds pretty awesome. :) I've been thinking of proxying DnT and this only gives me more reason to haha.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
http://www.twitch.tv/magicprotour/b/390844105 (go to 1:34:10)
This is so much more exciting than any topdecked Lightning Helix og Cruel Ultimatums. :tongue:
Tbh i never understood why DnT 'disappeared' from the meta. It used to be a great deck with many answers, and Thomas and Michael just proved it (again)
Don't forget, Death & Taxes also won an SCG not too long ago, just back in September only about 8 months ago via a Ben Nash. ^.^
To anyone, who doesn't want to play decks without blue, i'll say this:
Try - for a month or so - NOT playing decks with blue.. It's a sure route for you, to become a better magic player..
Back in the day, when i started to play magic, i startede out playing mono-red burn.. I eventually got a hold of blue cards, since i always used to lose to these blueplaying decks.. i could play brainstorms yes, but how does one play a "good" brainstorm? ;) I didn't know, so i sold all of the blue cards, relying on Imperial Painter and Death and taxes.. Although d'nt is so incredibly hard to play and painter to, it tought me, NOT to be afraid of going to topdeck mode or not knowing what's on top.. ;)
So, long story short..... STOP PLAYING BLUE!!! It's good for your health ;)
Yes, and Thomas also Top 8 or top 4 the only SCG open he went to. i don't understand why people keep saying that it won the GP because of the european meta. It just lacks more players overall. And skilled pilots maybe too.Quote:
Originally Posted by feline
As far as i've been told, the european meta, generally has more combo than the american one..Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
With that in mind, i'm curious of the lack of Mono-W control in america? :P
No one plays the deck. It's a hard to pilot deck, because you need to know what's the goal of your opponent to play your pro-active cards (Ports / Phyrexian revoker / Etc).Quote:
Originally Posted by phoenix4
I wish some scg grinder starts playing the deck so we can see what does it do in the hands of a high caliber player.
Well, then you're in for a treat, this summer :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
Team rocket is coming stateside ;)
Hi all,
i would like to post a new death and taxes deck style with welder and this new enchantment. Tell me what u think about it.
http://www.essentialmagic.com/decks/View.asp?ID=973387
ACTUALLY i was thinking at the great sinergy that GOBLIN WELDER + Sundering Titan + Legion's Initiative
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/attac...1&d=1366043832
second turn of welder taps / titan comes in from cemetery in exchange of an artifact land or whatever / Legion activated / Titan and welder goes out / Titan adn welder goes in with haste (untapped?)/ Titan attacks / Second phase welder activate ability / Titan goes in the cemetery =
7 damage (if not blocked) + 4 times titan effect (shall i say that is a completly wrap up on all lands?) . Playing trokair land gives u and advance of course.
Y'all will be in for a treat in december, since SCG Open comes to San Fran, and my worst tournament with the deck I came in 9th ^_^ !
This makes it sound like D&T won on some play skill and a healthy helping of luck. Yes, Thalia is great but she doesn't take this matchup from nearly unwinnable to dependably winnable. I still don't understand D&T is thriving vs all these combo decks. Does anyone have an explanation besides just pointing to the Strasbourg results?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tylert
Apart from being decent against combo you can't underestimate the surprise factor. Since no one tested against it I'm sure a lot of players made mistakes against the deck just on account of not knowing what creatures D&T run precisely and/or how they interact.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirrislegend
If you are referring go S&T, then the answer is 3-4x maindeck Karakas (4x in mosts lists up until the latest tweaks), 2-3 maindeck Mangara, and 4 maindeck Phyrexian Revokers to go along with Thalias, Ports and Wasteland. Then you bring in O-ring from the side. The S&T match-up is one of D&T's best. Storm is not as good, but then again 4x maindeck Thalia and 4 Revokers to go along with the Canonists from the sideboard means that if you get to turn 2 (a huge if) you'll almost surely be able to land a hoser. And you have mothers to protect them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirrislegend
Seeing that Enevoldsen has trimmed the Mangara/Karakas combo by cutting 1 Karakas and 1 Mangara, I would like to ask you experienced DnT players:
1) Is this something you recommend as well?
2) In which matchups is the Mangara/Karakas combo best?
Thanks!
Hans
Don't forget that Flikkerwisp also combos with Mangara.