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Divert is kind of like extra Pierces. Divert doesn't do anything against planeswalkers, enchantments, or artifacts. It also doesn't stop spells that don't target...like Exhume, Natural Order, etc. It can be cute to Divert a Hymn to Tourach, or 2-for-1 someone with their own removal, but it might just be too narrow. Like, I would hate to have a Divert when I want a Pierce, but I wouldn't mind having a Pierce where Divert would have been better.
I wouldn't argue with that. Still, you plan the game and set up the situations to take advantage of it. Sometimes its necessary to play it as a mere 1 for 1, and when its more than that its just awesome. Works much better than everything I've tried against Zoo/Aggro decks. Has the added bonus of hitting Progenitus. I'd be glad to run something better, but nothing I've tested or thought of yields the better results. Yet to try Retribution of the Meek though, but I'm skeptical about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by pi4meterftw
Wing Shards is worth trying at the very least. It's not like I'm you or Matt, but I've played a lot of games with it, and its been more than OK in tournament games.
hiyouthere My S/B is quite fluid, since my meta has almost no combo and ichorid, and I can afford to drop some hate for the cards I'm testing.
Against Zoo I'd go +3 Shards -2 Wayfarer -1 SP.
That said I've lost a match against Zoo today. Went 2-1-1. Draw with 4c Landstill (god, Jace is very annoying and hard to get rid of. If not for Jace, I think I'd be winning like 90% of the games vs 4c Landstill). Won against Burn 2-0, Swans C/B Top 2-0. Lost to Zoo 0-2. First game featured us trading down cards and on empty board he topdecked a QPM and beat me down to 0 from 15. I've topdecked 5 lands straight. Game2 I get a FoW heavy hand and I almost stabilize since I get an active jitte, and he's low on cards, but he goes for Sylvan Library, I FoW, he Pyroblasts, then proceeds to draw 6 cards in two turns, and blows me out with 3 goyfs, 2 huge 7/7 KoTRs through the active jitte. I fail to draw ANY removal this game.
Finished 6th out of top4.
Vacrix and how the hell do you put your Mom in the graveyard against Reanimator? Anyways, Divert is very weak, except against burn or something.
Has anybody tested Rushing River in UW Tempo? I can see a lot of synergy.
I've literally facepalmed. This is so wrong on so many levels... I'm not sure its even worth explaining how wrong it is. Seriously, if you dismiss Fathom Seer and/or suggest anything like Rushing River, you should be playing another deck - Mystic Fish or Excalibur or w/e.Quote:
Originally Posted by therorschach
you're right, its probably comes down to that. it's all about "what deck are you playing and what do you want to be playing" This deck probably isn't living up to my ideas because it's the wrong deck for me to be playing.
I was merely commenting that rushing river takes advantage of you only needing a few lands, can bounce annoying reanimation targets, and can open up a stalled board. Fathom Seer on the other hand, is straight up card draw on a body.
I used to play a landstill/fish hybrid, that deck used about 80% the same cards and coming from that perspective, i guess i am trying to hybridize that old fish deck with the Tempo strategy. It's hard for me to move past the "metagame fish" idea and just look at this as a flat Tempo-CA deck.
No need to be a jerk. If it's not worth explaining why it's wrong to someone who is obviously a new user, you should refrain from making a hostile post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinefol
The problem of Rushing River, is that UW Tempo has no so called 'reach'. It can't really squeeze 10+ damage in a turn with a pair of Goyfs or Goyf + a couple of bolts, or anything that Tempo Thresh can do. Although it has a "Tempo" in its name, the deck isn't much about tempo. Granted you can sometimes go for the pure tempoish wins, but most of the time it seeks to gain control of the board and produce card advantage. Rushing River does almost nothing to accomplish that. They would just replay w/e you bounced, and the gain is going to be minimal, if not negative (you lose a card). There are of course way better options against Reanimator, namely Curfew.
Fathom Seer on other hand is a pure card advantage, and it provides indirect card advantage by re-enabling the Wayfarer. Basically, Wayfarer + Seer is what makes this deck "UW Tempo", a glue that holds it together. Take them out and you're looking at yet another generic fish deck.
No, I'm not being hostile, its just that case where people really want to play the different deck and get somewhat misguided about why it isn't what they want. If you don't accept Seer, Excalibur thread is probably what you're looking for.
You should reread what I've said then. Never did I say Rushing River doesn't provide tempo, what I rather said, is that UW Tempo rarely can gain the considerable advantage of that tempo and thus isn't worth it.
Rushing River is terribad. Any reanimator player worth their salt will bring in Inkwell Leviathan against us, at least games 2 and 3.
Comparing it to Fathom Seer is just ignorant. For starters, you don't lose any land with fathom - and it gives you boatloads of card advantage. Rushing River bounces a dude. Two if you sac a land. The only real similarity here is that they both interact with land *somehow* and they both pitch to FoW.
Fathom Seer isn't anywhere close to the weakest card in this deck - if you're finding that it is, you're doing it wrong. I'd seriously suggest watching some of Forbiddian's videos on youtube and reading the whole thread from start to finish and try to get a better grasp on the deck.
Recent report: 3-2-1 at Knightware tournament.
obligatory post for Clarence Klase once again.
Knight Ware tournament (48 ppl i think). Clarence top8s with the same build hes been running. 3 md vial and a 3rd grunt in the KOTWO slot. Matchups were as follows
Round 1 vs Dredge (2-0) 1-0
Round 2 vs Zoo (2-0) 2-0
Round 3 vs Dredge (2-1) 3-0
Round 4 vs ANT (2-1) 4-0
Round 5 vs Merfolk (1-2) 4-1
Round 6 vs Merfolk (ID) 4-1-1
Top 8 looks like this
2 ANT
2 Merfolk
1 Belcher
1 UW Tempo
1 Mono Red Goblins
1 Counter top ProBant
Seeded 6th in the top8 and is paired against the Merfolk player he lost to in round 5
Quarters vs Merfolk (2-1)
Semis vs Belcher (0-2)
Takes 4th overall
1-2 on Friday, not that I played it well.
Carefully! JK There isn't really a way for you to get in the grave unless they take it with Thoughtseize. I lied, I was trying to make a pun. :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Tinefol
The reason I say Divert could be strong would be in situations like this.
I have Mother of Runes and an Island untapped. My opponent has a Nacatl. He attacks, I block and give it pro green. He plays Bolt in response. You could Daze and return your Island. Thats 1 for 1. Your opponent wasted his removal spell and you played your Daze. Instead, you could play Divert and use his own removal on his Nacatl. Thats a 2 for 1. Thats card advantage. The same case could be made against opponents playing Duress effects in the early game. It can also switch the targets for Reanimate to a Grunt (a more realistic example). It helps you win counterwars. Its extremely hilarious against Hymn to Tourach. Far from 'very weak'. It might not be as strong as other board cards that you already have, but you should give it more credit than very weak, seriously.
Also, I think its worth noting that Divert is particularly good in UW Tempo (and not really anywhere else) because UW Tempo is extremely good at keeping the opponent's land count low.
Quick Tourney report, Went 3-1 on the night.
My list was 1x Sphinx, 3x vial - and I swapped out curfews in the board for paths. I know, I know. Path is terrible, it doesn't work well in this deck, etc etc. The meta at the local shop by me is pretty aggro, and I wanted to be able to be able to side into 8x removal spells. I also didn't like how restrictive that Wing Shards was (and the CC didn't help) - Condemn didn't get the nod either since I wanted to be able to deal with non attacking dudes.
Round 1 v Burn
G1 -Don't realize he's actually on burn until two turns in, I've already cracked a few fetches. I miss the upkeep on jotun grunt early. Eventually, I start to stabilize but can't draw enough counters to stop things.
G2- He mulls down to 4 or 5. Gets stuck on one land. Aggro out with dorks for the W.
G3- Got a full grip of counters, he isn't able to get in for enough, Avenger gets me there.
1-0 (2-1-0)
Round 2 v R/G aggro
This deck was rather underdeveloped, mostly commons and full of auras. Not really worth going into depth on it since I steamrolled.
2-0 (4-1-0)
Round 3 v ANT
G1 - Ant does what it does. Strips me of the Fow, then goes off.
G2 - Side in boatloads of hate. Stick a Thorn pretty early. He can't dig up the bounce early enough. He drops an Ad Nauseum, but doesn't get what he needs and burns himself out.
G3 - Stick tons of hate. Get down a few weenies, then stick thorn again off etutor. Stick Canonist later (with another in hand). My aggro gets there, he needed to find his mystical for hurkyl's recall to get there.
3-0 (6-2-0)
Round 4 v RWg Sligh
G1 - Gets in for early goblin guide beats and I don't find a decent blocker until my life is dangerously low. He's got triple fireblast in hand. I scoop it up.
G2 - Side in my 4x Path, and 2x canonists (for more bodies to chump with). Opening 7 has double wasteland. He goes fetch, dual. Waste. He goes fetch dual again. Waste again. He never really recovers from the land-screw and we're on to game three.
G3 - Fantastic game. Went down to the wire. I manage to remove a few dudes (second path he fails to find basics). Comes down to him resolving a Sulfuric Vortex. He gets it to stick. All comes down to his last topdeck. He needed to deal 2 damage, and he top-decks the Magma Jet. I Have the FoW in hand, but not a blue card to actually cast it.
3-1 (7-4-0)
Cracked two ROE packs as my prizes - pulled 2x Dragonlord and 1x Foily Emrakul. Sick, sick pulls.
Feels good to put up a decent result again after last tourney.
Don't think that Path is worth playing in a normal meta - but in an aggro heavy one, it's not a bad call. Wing Shard might have worked, but the 1WW cost scared me off (plus I didn't have any onhand)
Well it really has a lot to do with "UW Tempo" not being a tempo deck at all. The name sucks and was thrown out by someone on a podcast that happened to stick. its more of a UW creature based control. The only tempo card is aether vial really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tinefol
Went 3-0-1 today, didn't drop a single game.
2-0 Excalibur, 2-0 Wildfire Stax, 2-0 Swans C/B Top, id in last round. Twice I've pulled the game out from 1life, that felt so awesome.
Legacy Night Report
On this Wednesday I was able to make it out to legacy night at Super Games again. I would guess the turnout was about 25 people or so.
Round 1 2-0 Goblins
Both games came down to me sticking a Jitte and then running the board.
Round 2 2-1 Dreadstill
I lost game 1 to 2 Dreadnaughts, scary stuff. Game 2 he could not draw his stifles or trickbinds, so I was able to play beatdown. For game 3 I believe he mulled to 5 or 6. His hand was land light, while mine had 2 wastelands. He was not able to recover after losing his first 2 lands.
Round 3 ANT 0-2
Wasn't really sure what I was playing against game 1 until he went off. His duress took away my force of will. Game 2 was rather poor for me as well. I lost all my counter magic to discard. This is a match up that I really need to get some more practice against.
Round 4 Aggro Loam 2-0
On game 1 I was able to stop him from doing very much through with mom, and some counter magic. Jitte gave me a fast clock and a fairly easy win. In game 1 I got to morph a fathom seer in response to a devastating dreams, which was rather amusing and useful. Game 2 was much more interesting. He was able to get his life from the loam shenanigans going very early in the game. In this game Jotun Grunt saved the day. My grunt managed to make it to 6 age counters, a new personal record.
Round 5 GBW Rock 2-0
Don't remember too much from game 1. Game 2 was more interesting, weathered wayfarer worked like a champ. Was able to keep those lands coming, which made great hymm to tourach fodder. I also over the course of the game got to swords to plowshare 2 Tarmogoyfs, a Kitchen Finks, and a Merit Lage token. Needless to say it was a very long game.
Top 8
First round Dreadstill Again 2-0
I got a terrible headache at this point, so I don't remember too much from this round. I remember counter wars over the stifles, and using swords to plowshares on a dreadnaught at some point. I remember resolving a aura of silence game 2, which really slowed him down, and possibly won me the game. He was able to get counter top assembled after I had 2 Aethervials in play. I must have lucked out a bit there.
The top 4 decided to split the usual 100 dollars store credit prize.
This week I decided to up my Aethervials to 3 and cut my Vexing Sphinx down to 1. This is mostly due to the fact that counter top is very heavy in my meta. Overall I was pleased with the change.
Thanks for all the great info you guys have been posting. I know I would not be as competent with this deck were it not for you guys. Thanks a lot!
David
Wow. That's a total of 42 cards.Quote:
Originally Posted by newworldman
R.E.S.T.E.C.P.
2-2 on Friday
R1, Tom, Depths
g1 I was stuck on low lands and finished him when he tried to stabilize on one life
g2 I was stuck on one land and finished him when he tried to stabilize on low life.
R2, Milan, ZOO
g1 He Bolted away my creatures and finished me with some cat
g2 He Bolted away my creatures and finished me with some cat when I forget to pay upkeep of Grunt
R3, Michael, ANT
g1 I kept horribad hand and I lost
g2 Aметистовый Шип
g3 Land, Mox, Mox, Ritual, AdN -> crap, crap, crap, crap, Tendrills, AdN, Tendrills. Fall to one hit point, storm ten, Tendrills gg
R4, Karel, NQlegacy.dec
g1 Mom held Blastoderm, Avenger held Jitte, Leatherback Baloth held +7/+7, +5/+5, blah blah, won this one on two life
g2 Mom held Blastoderm, Avenger held Jitte, Timbermare swordsed, blah, blah, unbeatable, blah blah, DTB, ATW, blah blah, Top8, Madrid, PTQ, GP, blah blah...
We hold pretty nice FNM drafts, once I wanna kill my opponents with 1/1s and 2/2s, I can try my luck in Limited.
Everybody has bad days. Don't give up.
I think I made a play mistake leading to my 3-2-1 for example. I won't do a tournament report, but for the sake keeping statistics accurate my matchups were as follows:
Dreadstill (0-2)
Random (2-0)
Merfolk (1-1-1)
Bant aggro/control (2-0)
Lands (0-2)
RG beats (2-0)