MisD is great, it is even better with Daze...Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
It acts only as supplemental FoW's, giving you the ability to force key spells through. Any other role is purely a bonus.
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MisD is great, it is even better with Daze...Quote:
Originally Posted by rxavage
It acts only as supplemental FoW's, giving you the ability to force key spells through. Any other role is purely a bonus.
I'm running 3 flusterstorm instead, 4 FoW, 3 Daze, 3 Flusterstorm. I may add a MisD we'll see how I like this suite.Quote:
Originally Posted by Deez_Naughts
What does people who has LoS and Flusterstorm in side, take out against tes / ant? I'm sure you take out intuitions. I guess you can also take out misdirections, because they don't are great against their deck other than discard, and not even there always (duress) Althought, misdirecting their Orim's chant or Silence could do something, but not necessary if they go off in response. I'm thinking something like this:
- 2 intuition
- 3 misdirection
- 1 Emrakul
?
Also, what's your sideplan against Belcher, do you side out Show and tells here that they can't drop belcher from that?
People who are playing Daze:
Daze/no Daze has been done to death I think? I don't think it really warrants further testing at all, it's just personal preference. Daze makes you pick up a land in the case where it's "faster" than Spell Pierce--i.e. it's not faster at all, because if you get to play it for free you are down a land. We are, unfortunately, not Reanimator. We can not operate on 1-2 lands (aside from Island+Sol Land, natch), and the tempo loss to picking up an Island to Daze is really bad.
And I personally have found that vs. a competent RUG pilot, they will heavily play the control role, basically only putting a clock into play when they have other Islands up to Stifle/Spell Pierce. You have to play around Daze and Spell Pierce (or you're just wasting your cards vs. RUG) , so your mana is tied up with actually playing your combo--thus free spells become absolutely critical. I can see why some people think this means Daze is good...but what can end up happening is you daze their counter, they win the counter war, and now you have to spend more time rebuilding against a deck that can punish your land base with Stifle and Wasteland. Thus, Misdirection becomes really really good. Not only is it a free counter, but it's one that doesn't give you -1 life, which in the RUG match-up is sometimes relevant. You do board out Mis-d a lot, but those are the match-ups you'd board out Daze anyway. Furthermore, Daze gets much worse after a few turns--even against RUG.
If Daze is working well for you, great. I tested extensively with and without Daze and my win percentages increased without it.
Also, Stifle RUG is much much harder for us than no-Stifle RUG. When you add Stifle to RUG, it goes from being a favorable match-up to more-or-less even.
Could you elaborate upon this point?Quote:
Originally Posted by Deez_Naughts
Thank you very much!
Firstly, Re-animator has access to black discard, and the match up is bad enough post board having to rely on the 5cmc plan. Secondly, in larger events, your going to run into allot more hand disruption from non-blue decks who are prepared for this archetype.Quote:
Originally Posted by Water_Wizard
4x LoS and 4x Cage/LotV is very much where you want to be right now, and ironically, it always was.
I'm planning on playing Sneak & Show on Grand Prix Ghent and I would appreciate any feedback you could give me of my current deck, especially the sideboard. I'm certain I'm going to play against Reanimator a lot so there's 2 Gilded Drake on the sideboard, but should there be also Through the Breach?
2x Island
1x Mountain
2x City of Traitors
3x Ancient Tomb
3x Volcanic Island
3x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
3x Griselbrand
4x Sneak Attack
4x Force of Will
2x Daze
4x Brainstorm
3x Misdirection
3x Intuition
2x Spell Pierce
4x Ponder
4x Show and Tell
1x Preordain
4x Lotus Petal
Sideboard
1x Pyroblast
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Shattering Spree
2x Echoing Truth
2x Submerge
2x Gilded Drake
3x Leyline of Sanctity
You'll definitely want to go up to 4x Griselbrand. He's generally safer to drop than Emrakul is.
Four Griselbrands is a absolute must. Cut something else. Also Gilded Drakes doesn't seem too be that good tech against Reanimator. They will get Griselbrand online much faster than you and also they won't be bringing in Show and Tell against Show and Tell decks. Gilded Drake is good against you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avez
I would pile up with gy hate instead. I'm playing four black Leylines and two Surgical Extractions in metas where dredge and reanimator dominate. You can side in the Extractions in other matchups like against Snapcasters decks. If 4-6 pieces is too much you can go with lower numbers by switching to other graveyard hate like Relic of Progenitus, Tormod's Crypt and such. Just make sure you always play four Leylines if you're playing them.
Through the Breach is okay in matchups where you side out your Show and Tells. Especially if you play Seething Song or two. This is an interesting option if you think you're against lot's of mirror matches. Pithing Needle is a card which I'm also considering to play. It blanks Sensei's Top, Karakas, Pridemage among other crucial things.
Also, I would play more Pyroblasts. They are just great against multiple decks.
Pyroclasm or even Firespout should be considered if Elves, Merfolk or Goblins or other creature decks gains more popularity. Now sweepers are just okay against Maverick and RUG Delver.
I haven't tested Submerge in this deck but I think there shouldn't be room for that. Play Echoing Truth or Wipe Away as your bounce spells.
Just my train of thoughts.
And btw long time reader first time poster. Former 43 Lands player playing Sneak & Show. See you at GP Ghent.
-Tuomas
So, I'm going back to 4 FoW, 3 Misdirection, 3 Flusterstorm because I've noticed more decks packing Flusterstorm and Misd is good for taking out 2 copies. I'm really not digging Though the Breach at all, maybe I just need to add Seething songs to the sb. I think I'm going to be toying with the sb alot in the coming weeks, I'll keep y'all posted.
I am saddened and disappointed I couldn't sneak into Day 2. Sometimes, the deck just gives you lemons and no sugar to turn it into a real game. Ran smooth for 4 rounds then crapped its pants against one of the better matchups (UW Stoneblade) then got outdrawn by Reanimator in round 9. Ugh!
3 Flusterstorm was amazing, except when going long against true control. 5 untapped lands make Flusterstorm look really bad.
^ Let's go back to Maverick? :tongue:
Should the Gilded Drake still be in the sideboard in the case of mirror? In mirror Gilded is better than Through the Breach cause it doesn't eat that many slots in the sideboard. Against Reanimator Gilded Drake could be used to capture opponents Blazing Archon but yeah, maybe Echoing Truth or something else is a better option there.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsoikkeli
I don't like playing four Leylines for some reason so maybe I go with 3 Tormod's Crypt 2 Surgical Extraction package. Surgical is also great for determining when to combo cause you can see your opponents hand and decide if you go with Show and Tell or Sneak Attack. Also what about Gitaxian Probe in the maindeck, is it any good there?Quote:
Originally Posted by tsoikkeli
Needle is great but what about Blood Moon? It can really mess up many Legacy decks and it still stops Karakas.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsoikkeli
Maybe Pyroclasm. Hate to lose to a combo elf.Quote:
Originally Posted by tsoikkeli
Thanks for these, much appreciated! I'm going to be there wearing a black t-shirt with a Charlie Sheens face and text:"Winning" :)Quote:
Originally Posted by tsoikkeli
edit.
New sideboard plan:
3 Crafdiggers Cage vs. Reanimator
2 Surgical Extraction vs. Renimator/UR Delver
2 Pyroclasm vs. Elf/Goblin/Affinity
3 Blood Moon / Needle vs. Karakas&Maverick
1 Echoing Truth vs. Esnaring Bridge and others that stop you from attacking
2 Pyroblast vs. everything blue
2 Gilded Drake vs. mirrormatch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koby
I was sorry to here about it, although it happens from time to time it still sucks being one of the better players and losing to your deck. Sometimes I won't even playtest before a big tourney, which is dumb, because I get superstitious and think that I get all my good hands and top decks in testing and then that 10% is the tourney. Anyways, I hope you'll continue contributing to the archetype, I'm sure you'll take down a GP it's only a matter of time.
Gilded Drake is only good against Balzing Archon. If I have understood correctly reanimator is trying to get Griselbrand online as fast as possible and overwhelm you with cards. Getting Blazing Archon first to prevent attacking beefs isn't getting you anywhere. Get Griselbrand and get cards to protect it. In mirror you are facing hasty Emrakuls and Griselbrands which makes your Gilded Drakes look stupid in your hand. I just cannot see how it could be good enough in this deck. Correct me if I'm wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avez
Honestly I dislike Blood Moon a lot. In my opinion it just generates more random wins which drifts you away from you're game plan. Play cards which support your combo or protect it. Against Maverick it's meh if they have any early Hierarchs. This makes you to play counters on Hierarchs which should be protecting your combo. Otherwise Blood Moon becomes dead card. Against RUG they just slam down their clock and just free-counter any relevent combopiece. Depending on first turn Blood Moon (which is highly inprobable) isn't ideal to me. Of course it's good against more controlling decks like BUG so you should keep the option open.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avez
Karakas isn't that big of a deal. Then you just need to find two red sources and activate Sneak Attack twice into attacking Emrakul. Griselbrand helps you find these. I see it problematic only in Maverick MU where they represent decent clock alongside with Karakas.
Actually I played 3 Gitaxian Probe MD in a local tournment couple weeks ago. It went poorly (2-2-1) but I really liked the Probes. All games were winnable which were lost to random punts. Note to self: play more. If you see protection you can continue to sculpt your hand. I went -2 Intuitions -1 Preordain of the standard list. Didin't miss the Intuitions a second. They are pretty slow and clunky. Probes are easily SB'd to Extractions or something else. Still I'm unsure if I'm going to play Intuitions or not.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avez
I don't know if this is worthwhile but all this pondering leads me to an interesting idea. Play couple Ensnaring Bridges in sideboard. Board them in against mirror. You'll play the Bridge and nobody attacks you. Proceed to find Sneak Attack, enough red sources and bunch of fatties. When you get Griselbrand and Emrakul out by winning the legendary rule combat you can attack when you draw bunch of cards. Just be careful with your life total that you can draw enough cards to attack with emrakul. So you need 15 lives assuming you have one card left in hand. It's grindy approach but how can fatties deck win this. I would assume that these decks won't SB in any bounce against you. Bounce is pretty bad against Emrakul and Griselbrand.Quote:
Creatures with power greater than the number of cards in your hand can't attack.
I board Vendilion Clique in the mirror...
so what's the current SB plan anyway?
8 Leylines
2-3 Through The Breach
2 Bounce
2-3 flex slots ?
The plan seems like more combo protection... so can anyone explain why there are 3 seething songs in Corbett Gray's list from SCG Seattle? I get it, that it's obvi for speed reasons but what to board out and against whom to bring?
What cards does the deck board-out anyway if we bring leylines?
Cheers
I wouldn't categorize the sideboard like that at all.
It's likely closer to this:
4 graveyard hate
2-3 Through the Breach
2-3 bounce spells
5-7 flex slots
White leyline isn't that impressive on its own - hence the push towards Spell Pierce, Flusterstorm, and REB.
^^^I agree. The Leylines are garbage and lead to more mulligans and more losses.