[Deck] The Rock

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist

1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest

0 Sensei's Divining Top

1 Terravore
4 Knight of the Reliquary

2 Pernicious Deed
2 Dueling Grounds
3 Ethersworn Canonist
3 Engineered Plague

---

* I think you play too many basics, how many times do you want your opponent to play Path to Exile on your dude? When you have 1 Basic and 2 duals, your opponent can pretty much color-screw you with a single wasteland anyways.

* 0 Top seems like a typo.

* 1 Terravore + 4 Knight seems a bit much.

* Your sideboard screams Enlightened Tutor, I think there's not enough love for that card.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist

Round 1 Monowhite Slivers
Game 1/2: I get stuck on 2 lands with a bunch of 3cc. When I finally get that 3rd land to drop the KotR/Goyf/Terravore in my hand he essentially goes, "Dur, drop 2 Sidewinder Sliver, bash in face with 4 3/4 Slivers." SB: -1 TS -1 Hymn -1 Qasali +3 E. Plague

---

Not sideing in Dueling Grounds or Pernicious Deed looks like a mistake here.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist

Round 2 Mirror
Game 1: I keep a hand of Mox, Bayou, Scrub, Sava, KotR, KotR, Terravore. He Inquisitions my Mox, then triple wastes my lands. God thats an amazing feeling. After this he drops his own Goyf/KotR while I'm stuck on 1 dual. SB -1 TS -1 Hymn +2 GftT
Game 2: Pretty much a repeat of Game 1 except it was me mana screwing him over. :3
Game 3: He mulls to 5, I get a T2 Terravore followed by T3 KotR and a T4 Top/Bob. He can't answer this.

---

I dislike Hymn to Tourach on the draw in the mirror, so I would've sideboarded:
OTP: -2 Thoughtseize; OTD: -2 Hymn to Tourach

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist

Round 3 UR Control
Game 1: He T1 Tarn, pass. I do a T1 Savannah, GSZ->Arbor. He does a T2 Waste, fetches for Volcanic, bolts my Arbor. WOW! I do a T2 Mox->Bayou, pass. T3 land, pass. T3 I attempt to crack a fetch which he Stifles, then I TS which he MM. Seriously? T4 Goyf. T4 land, Top (he MM this) then Mom (Daze's). 'Goyf gets there. SB: -1 TS -1 Hymn -1 Mom +3 Extirpate

---

You should've expected Daze and not walk into it at turn 4 or later. Also, you should've played Thoughtseize before attempting to crack the fetchland, but this looks like bad luck...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ForlornEgoist

Round 4 Zoo
Game 1: I know he's Zoo so I do a T1 Bayou, GSZ->Arbor. He fetches a Taiga->Nacatl. I drop a T2 , Top, Bob, pass. He fetches a Plateau, drops a Qasali, swings for 4, no blocks. I use top, stacking Plains/KotR, drop KotR. T3 he drops a Goyf, PtE my KotR, swings for 4, no blocks. I fetch a Bayou, drop Terravore. At his turn he casts Price of Progress. WOW. MD Price and I have 3-4 nonbasics. He then bolts me and I cry. SB: -4 TS -1 Qasali -1 Waste +2 GftT +2 Ground +2 Extirpate
Game 2: I fetch a Swamp, Mox->Savannah, Bob. He T1 fetch->Plateau, pass. Reveal KotR off Bob, drop a Top. He T2 fetch->Taiga, drops a Qasali, pass. Reveal land off Bob, drop a Goyf. He T3 fetch->Taiga, Drops a Nacatl, drops a Null Rod (singleton I found out after). I top in response seeing KotR/KotR/Terravore. Wtf... I draw a card, stacking Top onto deck. From here I essentially Bob myself down to 3 life. I manage to get him to block my Goyf w/Qasali, I kill my own Qasali to kill Null Rod, and he gets 2 KotR's to my 1 KotR/Bob. His KotR are 8/8's to my 6/6. He attacks with both. I block Bob on one, then tutor up a Maze to negate the other. EoT I Extirpate the 1 KotR in his GY (I know he only has 1 left in the deck but it was either that or the Qasali and I decided KotR was harder to deal with; I needed more info in his deck/SB). I then drop a Terravore. He drops a Qasali and passes. I swing for 12 which he decideds to take. Down to 9. He topdecks a Bolt with me at 3 life. He declares, I win, and bolts me. I StP my KotR bumping me up to 9. Apparantly I win. SB: -2 Extirpate +2 Deed
Game 3: We were literally starting off at 5 minutes until the round was over. I was confident neither of us could win (esp. me) but he insists he thinks he can kill me in 5 minutes and 2-3 turns at end-of-round. I open up a hand of Mox, Savannah, Fetch, GSZ, Top, StP, Bob. He mulls to 5. I go T1 fetch->Forest, Mox->Savannah, GSZ->Arbor, Top, pass. He t1 Plateau, pass. I t2 Top@ Upkeep, stacking GSZ. I then draw from Top, drop a land, GSZ->Goyf, pass. He drops a land, Nacatl, pass. I T3 KotR, swing with Goyf. At this point we have 5 turns which he then declares "Yeah, I can't win." Which sucks because I'm pretty sure I could have if I had another 10 minutes.

---

* I don't see the power of GSZing a Dryad Arbor against Zoo on turn 1. Lands that he can bolt seem bad.

* I play maindeck Price of Progress in zoo all the time, it's awesome against all the bad match-ups (and Rock).

* I board out Confidant against zoo, they have so many answers and the life-loss only helps their clock. I use my Confidants as 1B Fogs against zoo most of the time. Especially since you have relevant cards in your sideboard after your boarding strategy (Wasteland; Pernicious Deed)

actually 3 basics isnt too many. I havent played this deck in a while but i used to run 2 forest 2 plains and a swamp and i never got mana screwed. you just need to think about the land you fetch rather than grab a random dual land.
vorre is better than knight in most circumstances. he runs the vorre in the place of a vindicate.

I just have to say, i don't see the point really of dryad arbor without equipment or some way to abuse it.

@ BWM:

Perhaps my list runs 0 Top 'cause I'm gosu like that. :O Yeah... definitely a typo.

After you said the Deed/Grounds just now I did a facepalm. I'm not quite sure why I decided not to SB them. I think an issue I have with this deck is knowing exactly how to SB. I'm so reluctant to take out certain cards because unlike New Horizons stuff like our discard package isn't a universal answer so sometimes I have trouble decided whether I need more disruption via discard or more control cards. In this instance, compromising disruption for control seems like it would've been better.

@ Arbor:

This was my first night using GSZ in an actual tourney so I wanted to see how it worked it. After using it in a real tourney beyond MWS and goldfishing I have to say I wasn't too fond of it. If I'm stuck with it in an opening hand I always think, "Awesome. I now get to essentially time walk myself." Against decks like Zoo I've now turned a Bolt into a Wasteland for them which slows down my tempo.

@ Zoo MU:

You're right, in retrospect I should have SBed out Bob, but unfortunately I got trapped in my love affair with him by how many MU's he actually wins me, although that having been said if I hadn't of had him game 2 I never would have digged deep enough to actually win that game so I guess I lucked out with him.

@ E Tutor:

I think I'll definitely look at going with an E. Tutor toolbox. I definitely dislike running 3 E. Plague and cards like Deed/Grounds are only 2-ofs and definitely cards I need to see whenever I SB them. I'll have to look into this more.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Forlorn Egoist

First things first,

Does anyone want to play Legacy in the New York.NJ area tonight?

Second, 4 Goyfs are needed. But, if Landstill is going to become popular, I think you need to be running some hard trumps. I'm not sure if Grip is really needed in this metagame, because you have to ask if your opponents are running hard trumps in artifact form?

I think Qasali, Vindicate, and the like should be fine, although against Landstill they are counterable. I don't think Stronghold in the long game versus a Crucible-lock is the best form of action. I'd say up your basics and run Teeg/Thrunn/Needle.

I'll start running Thrunns over Plagues, considering Goblins is terrible and I can beat the other Tribal decks without Plague (Elves, meet my little friend, Deed :D ). Thrunn turns off Submerge, Repeal, Swords, Shackles, etc. Plus, he regens after Deeds of your own or opponents. Against BUG it's worse since they have Bloods, but that's fine.

I'm just wondering if I'll need to adjust my manabase and tilt more towards green. Perhaps instead of 4 Scrubland and 3 Bayou, I'll change to 3 Scrub 3 Bayou 1 Sav.

Thoughts? Thrunn also kills Rock mirrors as well.

-Matt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sdematt

First things first,

Does anyone want to play Legacy in the New York.NJ area tonight?

Second, 4 Goyfs are needed. But, if Landstill is going to become popular, I think you need to be running some hard trumps. I'm not sure if Grip is really needed in this metagame, because you have to ask if your opponents are running hard trumps in artifact form?

I think Qasali, Vindicate, and the like should be fine, although against Landstill they are counterable. I don't think Stronghold in the long game versus a Crucible-lock is the best form of action. I'd say up your basics and run Teeg/Thrunn/Needle.

I'll start running Thrunns over Plagues, considering Goblins is terrible and I can beat the other Tribal decks without Plague (Elves, meet my little friend, Deed :D ). Thrunn turns off Submerge, Repeal, Swords, Shackles, etc. Plus, he regens after Deeds of your own or opponents. Against BUG it's worse since they have Bloods, but that's fine.

I'm just wondering if I'll need to adjust my manabase and tilt more towards green. Perhaps instead of 4 Scrubland and 3 Bayou, I'll change to 3 Scrub 3 Bayou 1 Sav.

Thoughts? Thrunn also kills Rock mirrors as well.

-Matt

---

I've been playtesting with the 3/3/1 split and it works very well. I have yet to have to worry about the mana split. I am also going to test 1 thrun MD 1 SB. let me know how it goes.

Good luck everyone at GP Providence. At BoM I went 4-3-1 (Win/Loss/Draw) however some my misplays or lack of thinking made such not impresive result. In the time of MM this deck is a really nice machine. I play standard version without GSZ and E. Tutor package at sideboard.

I have been running thrun for a couple of weeks and he has been really good for me. He helps in so many ways.

Considering that sacrifice effects are woefully underplayed right now, and blue-based decks are seeing an upswing in play due to Mental Misstep, Thrun is positioned quite well in the meta right now. The only caveat to that is UGB Jacestill (which I mentioned earlier is just a dreadful matchup for us) which maindecks 4 Innocent Blood, then brings Perish out of the board against us typically.

Tested out 2x Thrun in the sb and they were wonderful against Landstill. Their "tech" against him right now is Peacekeeper which I was slightly unprepared for, but shouldn't be a huge problem in the future if I just sandbag all my Vindicates with Thoughtseize backup. Definitely going to try out a Dueling Grounds, mainly for the Merfolk matchup.

Also, not sure if it's been discussed yet, but swapping out a Top for a Sylvan Library has been great for fighting through the barrage of Mental Missteps. Considering even going for 2 Libraries/1 Top. Not sure if that would be too drastic though. Anybody got any input on this?

If you're running maindeck Deed, this could potentially be a problem as Top could be "saved" through a Deed activation. The lifeloss seems to be the biggest factor in using Library; you don't need to grab an extra card, but that's one of it's main selling points (get 2 cards in a pinch), but Confidant/Thoughtseize makes that advantage less attractive. Just my initial thoughts (I too have been looking at Library as I find myself not having enough mana at the correct moments cuz I need to cast spells).

Top resolving at all has been the problem. Seems like it's been Misstepped every time I've tried to cast it since the card came out. You're right though, adding yet another card that sucks life from us seems awkward, but at this point I think at least 1 may be a necessity just for the card selection.

I stated earlier in this thread that it's almost always the correct play to lead with Top as your opening 1cc play... now with MM in every deck, perhaps drawing out the MM with Thoughtseize/IoK is now the correct play as they either (a.) MM the Thoughtseize/IoK, likely allowing your Top to resolve thereafter, or (b.) they don't have MM, you grab a goodie with Thoughtseize/IoK, then slam Top down like a champ.

Library doesn't seem as strong as Confidant or Hymn at 2cc, and if Library's your 3rd option, how warranted is it maindeck?

Grant Garvin - Grinder 3
Grand Prix-Providence 2011 Legacy Grinder

So, what do you think?



// Lands
4 Wasteland
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Scrubland
3 Marsh Flats
3 Bayou
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Forest
1 Karakas
1 Swamp
1 Maze of Ith

// Creatures
4 Dark Confidant
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Tarmogoyf

// Spells
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Vindicate
3 Mox Diamond
2 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Enlightened Tutor


// Sideboard
SB: 2 Pernicious Deed
SB: 2 Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 Gaddock Teeg
SB: 1 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 1 Choke
SB: 2 Engineered Plague
SB: 1 Null Rod
SB: 2 Pithing Needle

Missing 3 cards I probably add:
SB: 1 Runed Halo
SB: 1 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 1 Tormod's Crypt

Looks pretty standard aside from 2 GSZ maindeck and a maindecked E Tutor (although since he dropped down to 1 Deed maindeck, the 1 E Tutor makes sense as it's a "virtual" 2nd Deed). 4 Vindicate is absolutely the right call in this slower, blue-heavy Jace meta; if we do not get rid of Jace before they untap, we actually lose.

Hey all, I'm back at my hotel from the GP, and I have a delicious double tournament report.

Die Hard Games Sourcer's Meetup:

4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Windswept Heath
2 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Forest
3 Bayou
4 Scrubland
1 Maze
1 Karakas

4 Goyf
4 Knight
4 Bob
2 Qasali Pridemage

2 Jitte
3 Top
3 Vindicate
1 Deed
4 Swords
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 GSZ

Board:
2 Thrun
3 Tutor
1 Runed Halo
1 Pithing Needle
1 Null Rod
2 Gaddock Teeg
2 Pernicious Deed
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Cannonist

Round 1: BUG Landstill

I notice this guy's got Summer basics, and I'm fairly interested. I have him on UGB Landstill due to his countersuite and duals; I put him on the BoM list. I crush him game 1 when he casts Standstill after my Bob lands through discard. I crush his Factories with Wasteland and Bob basically takes the game.

Game 2

Game 2 it turns into a Goyf/Bob battle on both sides, but I've kept my removal in due to not being a moron. I board in Teeg and Thrun, and basically keep him off Jace. I don't overextend into Deed, and I basically win the Goyf war with Thrun and Knight. Go go Thrun.

Record: 1-0

Round 2: Jeremy with Merfolk

I have Jeremy on Merfolk, and I keep a loose hand, and lose fast to triple lord nut-drwa with infinite counters.

Game 2

I board in Deed, Thrun, and Teeg for most of the discard and a Vindicate. I land Qasali and Teeg, giving me an edge against Submerge. I drop Goyf at 5/6, then Knight seals the deal behind my removal.

Game 3

In this game, I push through two Deeds, and one sticks. I 4-for-1 him, then drop Thrun. Thrun won the game on his own.

Record: 2-0

Round 3: Jacob from KnightWare with Mono U Merfolk

Game 1, I mull to 4 and never see a land ever again.

Game 2, I board in like before, but I lose with landscrew.

Round 4: Josh with U/W Landstill

I lose in two long, close games. I never draw Thrun, and I try to grind him out. Oh well.

----


It's 1210am now, but I'll finish the rest tomorrow.

-Matt

Your R1 BUG opponent cast his Standstill after you had already stuck a Bob? Was he high?

He had 3 Mishra's Factories in hand, so I guess he assumed he was okay. I also had 2 Wastelands, though :)

The Standstill, at that point, killed him. Even though I got greedy and cracked it, it was a huge swing for me :)

-Matt

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by novatinhu

Grant Garvin - Grinder 3
Grand Prix-Providence 2011 Legacy Grinder

So, what do you think?

---

This was me.

The three missing SB slots is a strange typo, I suppose. They were:

1 Thrun, The Last Troll
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale

This build was good to me on Friday, as it has been in the past. I've been running variations on it since November, and it has brought me three top 8 GPT finishes heading into GP Providence, all three of which I was one standing position away from snagging byes. So, it was to the Grinders. :)

I tore through that grinder facing Merfolk, Belcher, Merfolk, B/U Merfolk, and RUG with a single game loss. The deck was very well positioned, and I was confident going into Saturday with it.

Third round I pulled a Deadguy Ale build coming right out of the byes, and after decisively taking game 1, I lost a ton of traction in game two and three dealing with multiple Mirran Crusaders and Sword of FaF in both games. In the end I couldn't keep up with Batterskull, and lost it after a very close game 3.

Round four was against a Stoneforge package Zoo build, which I came out strong against, but again was slowed down by a Mirran Crusader while I dug for a StP. Game two was lost on not seeing land in both hands one and two, and although I stabilized and actually almost pulled it out, I didn't have enough gas to bring it home on a 5 card mulligan.

Round five was another tough one, despite it being what I feel is a good matchup for Rock, Merfolk. It was a R/U Lavamancer build which I felt I could handle without a problem, and I probably could have, if the wheels didn't completely come off a force one land and the zero land mulligans in game 1 and 3. Game three would have been a victory still, but my opponent ripped a Submerge, the fourth copy no less, and swung lethal for a single point of damage with a minute and a half left to go in the round. If I had not been so aggressive on getting fetches into the graveyard to pump the Knight in the mid game when I had control, I probably would have faired better in terms of life total in the late game when the Submerges really started to take their toll. Between an active Bob and six fetches, I did a lot of damage to myself that ended up costing me the game. It's a harsh lesson that even while this deck has no problem stabilizing at low life totals, there a lot of tools out there that can trash your gamestate and pull a upset victory out of.

Despite a frustrating day, I felt that I had everything I needed to deal with the situations I ran into, and that rock is still a very viable deck in a world defined by Mental Misstep. My maindeck E Tutor has been invaluable, and I would recommend giving it a shot to see if it works for you. Tabernacle in the SB has also been huge against a large cross-section of combo and aggro decks, and I've won number of games on the back of it both searched off of a Knight and occasionally held as a backbreaker once I trash the mana base of an opponent.

In addition to just some terrible luck, if I played tighter on Saturday things may have gone better. Despite playing modern Legacy rock for over eight months almost exclusively, and the rock archetype for well over a decade, this deck absolutely demands skillful decisions which I probably could have handled better in retrospect. It's a really challenging deck, but equally as satisfying.

Quote:

---

Third round I pulled a Deadguy Ale build coming right out of the byes, and after decisively taking game 1, I lost a ton of traction in game two and three dealing with multiple Mirran Crusaders and Sword of FaF in both games. In the end I couldn't keep up with Batterskull, and lost it after a very close game 3.

---

That may have been me? I played against a Grant in round 4 who had byes and was playing Rock, and was from RI, but I didn't have SoFaF in my Deadguy (SoFaI instead). Turns out pro-green/black is good against a green/black deck :D Mirran Crusader did a ton of work for me all weekend as well as my friends playing it in other decks.

I think Rock was definitely a solid pick for this weekend, although I didn't end up playing it. There was a lot of Fish and Team America in the room, which I consider to both be good matchups (TA not as much but still favorable if you have the right board). I faced Ian Duke in round 7 or 8 and we were joking about how he was going to play basically the build of Deadguy I settled on but audibled to Rock, whereas I was going to play the build of Rock he had but audibled to Deadguy.

That was indeed you, and yes, I now remember that it was SoFaI. I got bitten by SoFaF in Round 2. That was an excellent set of games, and I'd love to get in a few more with you in the future at some point, especially when I'm running on more sleep and not mistaking a Therapy for Thoughtseize like an idiot from across the table on turn 1. :D

Deadguy is an archetype I've been wanting to take a shot at playing for a while, and that match was the impetus to pick it up and finally give a try. I've been a long time player of the midrange/rock family of decks, and Deadguy with the new toys it has been handed in the past six months looks like something I'd really enjoy playing.