I have cut it completely. I cant think of a matchup where I would need 4, usually sweepers, pyroblasts, or jitte are the cards that I bring in when I need more removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neffy
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I have cut it completely. I cant think of a matchup where I would need 4, usually sweepers, pyroblasts, or jitte are the cards that I bring in when I need more removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Neffy
I think I will go with charm, it's such a versatile card. Decay is too, but three is enough with all the other removal.
And I made a mistake in the first post, I wrote Misty Rainforest where it should be Bloodstained Mire.
I haven't actually tried the 2 Swamp 1 forest manabase, but I like the idea a lot. Definitely sorts out the blood moon/wasteland matchups nicely without digging into the SB.
Good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dissection
Anyway, I would never add a second basic Swamp unless I have everything else covered first. While it does "help" with a few things, it doesn't solve them, and Wasteland and Grove of the Burnwillows "help" a whooole lot more.
Whats the reason that very little to no one is playing the worldwake manlands? Unlike modern where every bgx deck run as many as they can fit.
Wasteland.
My guess is Wasteland, but i nfact last week I saw a Jund running Raging Ravine with success, he was 5-1 or 4-2 I think.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizso
Wasteland and an overall faster pace which makes it hard to efficiently play taplands (yes, Shardless BUG plays Creeping Tar Pit, but that deck can cantrip, has a lover mana curve and Tar Pit is also unblockable, which makes it worth a slot or two). What is more, in a format with decent cantrips, Lightning Bolt becomes a lot more relevant and it sure is not fun to lose Raging Ravine to a bolt. And more importantly, Raging Ravine produces R/G while B is what we need.
But gonna get wastelanded anyway and lightning bolt is quite taxed already for liliana bob, deathrite and random smallgoyfs. Still a cteature that cant be abrupted and bolt and other removal are cards you can play arround when the deck is fill with discard effects. Manlands increases threatdensity and jund colors have 2 solid wwkmanland and treetop as well. Tec edge and bolt is everywhere and still they see massive play there.
Does the deck really need 9 fetchlands?
Just some outside perspective questions.
My biggest thought is that it takes 4 mana plus the land itself to activate which means you can't do anything else with your mana that turn typically. A 5 mana investment often will leave without the mana to activate deathrite or play goyf.
Shardless loves creeping tarpit because it snipes jace and liliana, while also being a good stand alone creature. Also being 1 mana cheaper activation helps a lot.
That's not to say its unplayable but it definitely seems one of the slower ways a jund deck can grind out value.
None of the viable manlands in Jund produce black and they all enter the battlefield tapped. There's not much more to say. I tried out Treetop Village for a while, but it was still nonblack and entered the battlefield tapped and ended up hurting more than it helped.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rizso
That said, it's still better at grinding than Punishing Fire, if you look at it.
3 tapped lands = 1 Pt Damage
6 tapped lands = 3 Pt Damage
Vs Ravine
5 tapped lands = 4
5 tapped lands = 5
5 tapped lands = 6 and so on. I say it could try coming in instead of a 4th Grove.
Grante, it will most likely be used to generate mana solely, but still, when it happens, it's gonna be way more awesome than P.Fire
Wasteland and ETB TappedQuote:
Originally Posted by Rizso
It's just cute, nothing more. I mean, if Punishing was legal in Modern, the first thing to go would be those lands. Fire is not there to win a game, (though it can) and putting it next to something that you have the express intent to deal combat damage with seams like an unfair comparison.Quote:
Originally Posted by aluisiocsantos
For sure! Though I'm not excluding fire, but instead just assuming in a situation in which the only choice you have is Punishing Fire to grind the hell of it, maybe you could have that mana better spent with this land. But i really gotta try it out to see how likely it is to happen.
Most of them play groove already. If you really are so hurt for black there is also the option for bg filterland. It would allow a 3 land hand, groove, wasteland hands to cast a turn 3 liliana.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dice_Box
I know, after Rock, Jund is my Modern deck of choice. That's why I have it in Legacy. All I am saying is that, should at any time PF be unbanned in Modern, the first thing to be cut would be the Man lands.
Keeping in mind that the grove package would drag things to the late game, it would be fairly reasonable to still keep a couple of manlands. But I doubt that Punishing Fire is in a position for being unbanned and this topic is rather irrelevant for the thread.
Reid Duke just posted some videos playing an interesting version of jund utilizing 2 mox diamonds, a gsz package including dryad arbor and huntmaster of the fells, and 0 bloodbraid elves. Thought his list was interesting but I dunno if I could ever give up bloodbraid elf.
Here is his deck tech video: http://youtu.be/Gf6mgvn-u6w
And he went 2-4 with it having only beaten Burn. While this means nothing in and of itself, I would like to point out that his new package meant nothing to any of the decks he had trouble with. Jund's problem isn't its "oomf". It's got plenty of "oomf" and it makes all the ladies sigh. Jund's problem is that it's inconsistent (and doesn't have shitty universal counters). His alterations, though I do love me some Green Sun's Zenith, did nothing to change that problem and Mox Diamond only stands to make that problem worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Mox only works if your deck is Pox, or if youre running Loam or Crucible. That said, you'd need more than one loam for it to be viable, and that will make it go more towards traditional Aggro Loam (which is actually jund colors) instead of Jund.