[Deck] GW/x Maverick

1. The main problem with Knights into Karakas are as follows:

-Karakas doesn't stop Sneak Attack/Emrakul.

-Karakas doesn't stop Griselbrand from drawing his cards.

-Karakas gets rolled by Woodfall Primus

-Karakas loses to Hive Mind, Dream Halls, and Progenitus.

Not that stopping the Emrakul isn't huge, and not that it isn't just as important to stop Griselbody as Griselbargain. Knight combined with a Revoker/Needle shuts down Griselbrand. But Knight/Karakas isn't as catchall as it used to be.

2. I'm telling you guys. Add a Sylvan Safekeeper to your 60. Your RUG Delver matchup will jump 5-10% just because of all the games you don't lose to Submerge or burn stopping your Jitte dude from getting his first hit in.

EDIT: Also, Cavern of Souls on Humans is pretty real.

I've been playing Safekeeper in the main for a few months now, i've been pretty happy with it overall. I wouldn't cut down to 3 moms for it however. But as additional protection, it's been quite good. I do run 2 loams though, not sure if it will be as good without those.

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RUG should be a favorable match up. A few suggestions:
Play around Wasteland.
Play Choke.
Bring in extra removal in the form of Path to Exile or Gut Shot.
Umezawa's Jitte is a beatstick.
Scavenging Ooze is even better (just make sure it doesn't get Bolted right away - bring it into play when they are tapped out of R or when you have 3+ G available and 3+ creatures in the yard).

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/agree Ooze is amazing! & the Sylvan Safekeeper is better then Mom against RUG

Choke though is not as good as it appears. It does not stop force, if they are smart and leave daze in that allows them to untap additionaly many RUG players are playing a single Taiga. Choke still wrecks U and UW and some esper but is not a beating for a good RUG delver.

The better move is more removal if you stop their clock the late game goes to Maverick. PtE is great against RUG as they run no basics.

What do you guys think about Garruk Relentless ? There's a lot of newer lists using it, but I dont know, it seems a bit underpowered to me. Isn't Elspeth just better ?

Garruk is better against the Nic Fit type lists. The 2/2 (bigger body), deathtouch (flipped) and 'battle' ability can all be relevant. Also, the search feature can be nice to find your silver bullet. Elspeth is great against the mirror or anytime you need to break a ground stall with a jump boost. Both are good against control lists, as once they hit the board, it is hard for control players to answer a constant stream of tokens.

I think its inclusion is solely because it's easier to cast than Elspeth with Cavern of Souls in play.

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Originally Posted by majikal

I think its inclusion is solely because it's easier to cast than Elspeth with Cavern of Souls in play.

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Still don't agree with Caverns as inclusion for this deck. If you're trying to beat counter-based combo decks with Maverick, then you're playing the wrong deck.

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Originally Posted by Koby

Still don't agree with Caverns as inclusion for this deck. If you're trying to beat counter-based combo decks with Maverick, then you're playing the wrong deck.

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I think it's more so your Knight doesn't get Dazed against RUG Delver. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks interesting.

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Originally Posted by majikal

I think it's more so your Knight doesn't get Dazed against RUG Delver. I haven't tried it yet, but it looks interesting.

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That does not seem worth it.

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Originally Posted by mini1337s

That does not seem worth it.

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Whether it seems worth it or not, it's putting up results. I would not discount it so easily.

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Originally Posted by majikal

Whether it seems worth it or not, it's putting up results. I would not discount it so easily.

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Not to derail, but the person piloting a list has more to do with how often it wins rather than the specific cards that are played. Also see, Tom Martell and Lingering Souls.

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Originally Posted by Koby

Also see, Tom Martell and Lingering Souls.

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Implying that Lingering Souls has not put up the numbers it was expected to because the majority of Lingering Souls pilots are not as skilled as Tom Martell?

What about Lingering Souls' position in the meta at GP Indy? GP Indy was Lingering Souls' "coming out party". Martel realized it was a very strong list against the expected meta and played well (although he had some much needed draws - hit a 1-of Perish in his deck on the crucial turn in the Top 8 and had some other pretty sick hands/draws (not to discount his abilities as a player)). In any case, the meta has shifted. Cards like Sulfur Elemental, Dread of Night, Sulfuric Vortex, and Night of Soul's Betrayal all saw play after Tom Martell's GP Indy win. Going into GP Indy, Martell had to worry about none (or very few) of those cards.

It boils down to 3 factors that effect the outcome of matches:

1) Player skill. First and foremost, the skill of the player playing the deck. Secondly, the skill or lack of skill of the opponent.

2) Deck selection. Including overall deck choice and maindeck / sideboard decisions.

3) Variance or "luck". How much did you mulligan, what did you draw off the top, how much did your opponent mulligan, what did your opponent draw? How well did the two mesh? 3 Wastelands off the top against a RUG deck can equal victory, against a Burn deck, it is often death.

@Water_Wizard
More or less, yes that's my point. Some cards may be appearing in winning decklists that are new, untested, or overvalued by the viewer. This doesn't necessarily mean that those cards are instrumental in winning.

I think this is the case with Cavern of Souls. By Todd Andersons' feature matches from SCG Nashville:
Quarter-finals
Round 8

"Todd cast an uncounterable Knight of the Reliquary using Cavern of Souls (Human). While Todd announced the Cavern was being used, Randy tried to Force of Will anyway."
--- Game was won on Knight beatdown.

"Todd had no turn-two play, but on turn 3, he cast Knight of the Reliquary with a Cavern of Souls on Human. Knight was a 4/4."
"Thalia came down again, with Cavern mana."
--- Game was won with Gideon.

"Todd played Cavern of Souls on Human and used it to stick an Umezawa's Jitte. On his next turn, he played a third land to resolve Knight of the Reliquary as a 3/3."
"Darkblast got rid of the 1/1, and Todd untapped, found land, and resolved Knight of the Reliquary, as he announced the use of Cavern of Souls. Justin killed it with Swords to Plowshares."
"Todd found yet another Knight of the Reliquary, and Justin vialed in Umezawa's Jitte. Justin had Vindicate for the Knight on his turn."
---- Game was won with Garruk.

You decide whether the Cavern matters here.

@ Koby - I agree with you. When I first saw Cavern of Souls, I never thought it would see play in Maverick (maybe in Goblins or a Welder/Chalice of the Void MUD build). I don't see the need for Cavern. If they want to Force, I'll take a 2 for 1. I can play around Daze. Most of our Humans aren't affected by Spell Snare (except Thalia). Spell Pierce, which I would venture to say is the most common counter (or at least tied with FOW), does't even hit creatures.

I appreciate the research you provided in the form of quotes (as a law school student, I spend countless time doing research and quoting legal cases and statutes).

For the sake of completeness, I want to point out some quotes in favor of Cavern of Souls.

From the Tournament Reports Section (this deck took 36/732 players at the Bazaar of Moxen Event):

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Originally Posted by Snief

I registered the following list:

2 Cavern of Souls
3 Wasteland
4 Savannah
2 Forest
1 Plains
4 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Karakas
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Horizon Canopy

4 Mother of Runes
1 Birds of Paradise
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Scryb Ranger
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Aven Mindcensor

2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Sylvan Library
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares

SB:
2 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Life from the Loam
2 Krosan Grip
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Choke
2 Path to Exile
2 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Bojuka Bog

Short Sidenote: I played Cavern of Souls for the first time this weekend and upped them short after from 1 to 2. I would play more but that would be too much colorless mana. They are that good!

Round 9: RUG
I play against an Italian guy who plays RUG which I know because I watched a match from him in the second round. Yay for byes!
Game 1 I win because of Cavern of Souls. Playing uncounterable Knights is THAT good :D

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Not to mention, the deck that split Top 4 also ran 2 Cavern of Souls (plus a lot of "free" counterspells/graveyard interaction in the sideboard).

Maverick by Marc Duran:

Lands (21)
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Forest
1 Gaeas Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Karakas
1 Plains
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

Creatures (24)
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
3 Noble Hierarch
2 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Scryb Ranger
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Kitchen Finks

Artifacts (2)
2 Umezawas Jitte

Enchantments (2)
2 Sylvan Library

Instants (5)
1 Path to Exile
4 Swords to Plowshares

Sorceries (4)
4 Green Suns Zenith

Planeswalkers (2)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Relentless

Sideboard (15)
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Choke
4 Mindbreak Trap
1 Path to Exile
4 Surgical Extraction

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Originally Posted by Tacosnape

1. The main problem with Knights into Karakas are as follows:

-Karakas doesn't stop Sneak Attack/Emrakul.

-Karakas doesn't stop Griselbrand from drawing his cards.

-Karakas gets rolled by Woodfall Primus

-Karakas loses to Hive Mind, Dream Halls, and Progenitus.

Not that stopping the Emrakul isn't huge, and not that it isn't just as important to stop Griselbody as Griselbargain. Knight combined with a Revoker/Needle shuts down Griselbrand. But Knight/Karakas isn't as catchall as it used to be.

2. I'm telling you guys. Add a Sylvan Safekeeper to your 60. Your RUG Delver matchup will jump 5-10% just because of all the games you don't lose to Submerge or burn stopping your Jitte dude from getting his first hit in.

EDIT: Also, Cavern of Souls on Humans is pretty real.

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Knight/ Karakas doesn't stop Sneak Attack only if the knight has summoning sickness. Remember Sneak Attack just give the creature haste, you can have them bounce the Emrakul or Griselbargain during the main phase. If they are not packing MD hate for you it's a pretty easy way to stop the attack. MD they do not pack any hate to stop Karakas, assuming they do not have a one of Progen.

1. Also is Krosan Grip still a possibility to battle Sneak and Show? I haven't seen any maverick decks run/ need it up until now.

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Originally Posted by Water_Wizard

Not to mention, the deck that won the whole event

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Top 4 did split.

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Originally Posted by Darkness

Knight/ Karakas doesn't stop Sneak Attack only if the knight has summoning sickness. Remember Sneak Attack just give the creature haste, you can have them bounce the Emrakul or Griselbargain during the main phase. If they are not packing MD hate for you it's a pretty easy way to stop the attack. MD they do not pack any hate to stop Karakas, assuming they do not have a one of Progen.
[/LIST]

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You are forgetting that you can tap Karakas only ONCE PER TURN.

Karakas does stop a stupid Sneaky player, thats right. But if he knows, that he just has to have 2 Red mana, he can play around Karakas easily, even with just 1 Emrakul. E.g.: SnT player Plays Sneak Attack and after paying 4 mana he has 1 untapped Volcanic Island and 1 Lous Petal left on board, and you have an active Knight. Then SnT play activates Sneak Attack by tapping Volcanic Island for R for the first time>>>

1.) >> you activate KotR at end of mainphase and bounce Emrakul with Karakas.
2.) >> you activate KotR at end of the beginning of combat step and bounce Emrakul with Karakas.
3.) >> you activate KotR in response to the annihilator trigger and bounce Emrakul with Karakas, then sacrifice 6 permanents.

If you follow Way 1.) your opponent activates SA with the Petal and brings in Emrakul again, then attacks you for 15 + annihilator.

If you follow Way 2.) your opponent activates SA with the Petal and brings in Emrakul just in the beginning of combat step, before declare attackers and attacks you for 15 + annihilator.

If you choose Way 3.) you only sacrifice 6 permanents and dont get dmg, but your opponent has Emrakul in his hand again and is going to kill you next turn.


So the best way is to tutor Maze of Ith in response to annihilator so emrakul dies at eot and you get no dmg, even that is an incredibly bad deal.

This is my current list I'm bringing to SCG Worcester, MA.

Creatures:
1 Dryad Arbor
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Qasali Pridemage
3 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryab Ranger
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Knight of the Reliquary

Artifacts:
2 Umezawa's Jitte

Enchantments:
1 Sylvan Library

Instants:
4 Sword to Plowshares

Sorceries:
4 Green Sun's Zenith

Lands:
3 Forest
2 Horizon Canopy
1 Karakas
1 Maze of Ith
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Plains
4 Savannah
4 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath

SB:
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Tormod's Crypt
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Path to Exile
2 Pithing Needle
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
2 Choke
2 Krosan Grip
1 Gideon Jura

1. Bog and Crypt are for Dredge/ GY hate
2. Path is an extra removal for creature decks and RUG. Gideon is there for Mirror Thinking about putting Linvala or Elspeth in his spot.
3. Choke is for RUG, Esper, UW Miracle
4. Needle Teeg Ethersworn + E Tutor are for combo alongside K. Grip for Sneak Attack and random hate to stop my creatures, i.e. Humility Ensaring Bridge, Cursed Totem, esc.

Cavern of Souls is catchall enough to run. That colorless isn't going to bite you in the ass very often - You only have one turn one play that Cavern on Humans doesn't cover - Green Sun's Zenith into Dryad Arbor, and you don't really have -any- double mana symbols in the deck. Pridemage and Teeg are the only difficult casts.

Not getting your dudes Dazed/Forced is pretty huge.

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Originally Posted by Sedris

You are forgetting that you can tap Karakas only ONCE PER TURN.

Karakas does stop a stupid Sneaky player, thats right. But if he knows, that he just has to have 2 Red mana, he can play around Karakas easily, even with just 1 Emrakul. E.g.: SnT player Plays Sneak Attack and after paying 4 mana he has 1 untapped Volcanic Island and 1 Lous Petal left on board, and you have an active Knight. Then SnT play activates Sneak Attack by tapping Volcanic Island for R for the first time>>>

1.) >> you activate KotR at end of mainphase and bounce Emrakul with Karakas.
2.) >> you activate KotR at end of the beginning of combat step and bounce Emrakul with Karakas.
3.) >> you activate KotR in response to the annihilator trigger and bounce Emrakul with Karakas, then sacrifice 6 permanents.

If you follow Way 1.) your opponent activates SA with the Petal and brings in Emrakul again, then attacks you for 15 + annihilator.

If you follow Way 2.) your opponent activates SA with the Petal and brings in Emrakul just in the beginning of combat step, before declare attackers and attacks you for 15 + annihilator.

If you choose Way 3.) you only sacrifice 6 permanents and dont get dmg, but your opponent has Emrakul in his hand again and is going to kill you next turn.


So the best way is to tutor Maze of Ith in response to annihilator so emrakul dies at eot and you get no dmg, even that is an incredibly bad deal.

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Touché

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Originally Posted by dsck

Top 4 did split.

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Thank you - I made an edit above.

Top8ed a legacy tournament at DHG today with Maverick (Bant Splash). After losing to RUG delver 3 times, which I previously thought was unlosable, I have made a few changes to my deck. Here is my current list:


1 Aven Mindcensor
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
3 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Tarmogoyf
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Gaddock Teeg
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Garruk Relentless
3 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Path to Exile
1 Maze of Ith
1 Sylvan Library
2 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
3 Wasteland
4 Windswept Heath
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Tropical Island
1 Plains
SB: 2 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 2 Ethersworn Canonist
SB: 2 Choke
SB: 2 Path to Exile
SB: 1 Bojuka Bog
SB: 3 Spell Pierce
SB: 1 Flusterstorm
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Surgical Extraction

Here are some comments I have about my old list and new list:

1. Linvala was actually pretty underwhelming and never came in against any of my matchups. I would be good against elves, but path/swords is probably enough to beat them. Also, they have the beat-down plan so you arent winning if they have time to set up elvish archdruid. I am cutting her for a 3rd path to exile, which is no-drawback swords against RUG delver and does the same thing in the mirror.

2. I am going to try a 1-of tarmogoyf. Against combo he puts on a faster clock, its either going to be tarmogoyf or a 3rd ooze. Against RUG delver he stops mongoose, and if they have no/one card in hand, he stops tarmogoyf as well.

3. Aven Mindcensor is fairly underwhelming, and should definitely not be a 2-of. 1-of was fine for me, as it was not very relevant, but 2-of is just bad.

4. Thalia is not very good against RUG. While she slows down their cantrips and spells, she cant trade with anything, so it doesnt make sense to keep her in. I also wouldnt recommend siding in Chokes on the draw, as RUG delver is usually ahead by then.

Anyways, let me know your guys thoughts on this. I'm hoping to make some final tweaks to my deck to prepare it for SCG worcester. If anyone has questions regarding the blue splash, just know that I was 2-0 against Sneak and Show today, just by threatening blue/having spell pierce.

I think Linvala is more valuable than a Path to Exile in the mirror. Path to Exile obviously has much wider application though. Also, I could agree with taking out Thalia against RUG if you expect they're on Sulfur Elemental. If you're expecting more pointed removal or Pyroclasm effects I think Thalia's worth keeping in.

Decided to play Maverick at a $500 store credit tournament today. I usually play combo but I thought I'd surprise people (plus I've been running pretty bad lately)

Rd 1: bye

Rd 2: loss to Sneak show

Rd 3: lose to sneak show AGAIN (the only 2 players out of the whole room of 30)

at this point I figured I'm probably not going to top 8, but what the heck.

Rd 4: win against aluren (yes this deck still exists!)

Rd 5: win vs bant maverick (Linvala is MVP)

Rd 6: win vs NO RUG (feels good to beat a proggy on board)

4-2, ended up 9th :(

Basically, I did not dedicate any specific hate for S&S (i.e. no revoker, needle), and used good old hatebears instead.
The matchup, although slightly unfavourable (0-2 hurts though), is by no means unwinnable, so I really wouldn't see myself dedicating more than 2 or so slots. I also misplayed a bit, since I've never played a single game with Maverick till round 2 (which is my first time playing against S&S too).

This reminds me when I played Junk... and got paired against 2 43 land decks. I just run so bad at magic when it comes to matchups (lol).

WHat do you think of Guilded Drake againt Show and Tell deck?

Hey all, I'm pretty new to Maverick and I just want to ask what do you guys think is the correct play in this situation:

Preboard, Turn 2 (on the draw), my turn:

Opp's board: Tapped Flipped Delver, Volcanic Island, Scalding Tarn

My board: Forest, Dryad Arbor
My hand: Windswept Heath, Sylvan Library, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, Qasali Pridemage, Thalia
My GY: Misty Rainforest

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Originally Posted by Mkr

Hey all, I'm pretty new to Maverick and I just want to ask what do you guys think is the correct play in this situation:

Preboard, Turn 2 (on the draw), my turn:

Opp's board: Tapped Flipped Delver, Volcanic Island, Scalding Tarn

My board: Forest, Dryad Arbor
My hand: Windswept Heath, Sylvan Library, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, Qasali Pridemage, Thalia
My GY: Misty Rainforest

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We should have a known Instant/Sorcery in hand off the Delver flip that could dictate line of play, but w/o that information...

I think the presented pressure of a flipped Delver is pretty noteworthy. If they lead a Nimble or fail to blind flip a Delver I would tend to play more conservatively, but realistically you're facing 4 turns to swing board state. Honestly this is a bad place to be with Maverick, there's a good chance they have Daze or FoW up, and with 2 mana available they have free reign to Stifle your next fetch and still interact with your play.

I'd play/crack Windswept Heath. If allowed to fetch I'd either aggressively pull Savannah for it's better interaction with a potential GSZ'd Scryb or alternatively Plains if trying to solidify up against Wasteland. Regardless with my :g::g::w:, I'd jam Knight of the Reliquary. It maybe gets Dazed or FoW'd but those spells are going to counter something. We have 2x Fetches in the 'yard at this point so Knight's in the clear vs Bolt effects. If they have the FoW or Daze the following turn's line of play should probably be GSZ for Scryb Ranger, return Savannah, untap Dryad Arbor, replay and push Thalia. With the Plains I'd probably GSZ for Scryb if I didn't hit the land or push QPM then Thalia if I hit the 4th mana source.

If they've countered the Knight they've likely pitched a conditional counter to FoW (Pierce or Snare so they've got less game against GSZ and Thalia respectively) or they've Dazed they're back a land drop that makes Thalia's Sphere effect even better. If the Heath is Stifled I would push Thalia and follow up with Pridemage most likely the following turn.

I guess I can address the cards I'd hold back and the reasoning. Namely Sylvan Library and Green Sun's Zenith. I'd hold Sylvan back because it does not apply pressure to race Delver and your lack of board presence leaves you in no position to be using the -4: draw. There's definitely some good potential dig to be had, ie if you drop the Heath and can get the Library down w/o a crack you can dig the top 3 for a Plow and potentially fetch to get a shuffle and dig a different 3 the following turn. While this plays around Daze and helps find the answer to Delver. I don't think it's a winning proposition to try to out dig Delver, they have 8+ cantrips and w/o Thalia down should have less issue finding the FoW or Spell Pierce than Maverick does finding the Swords to Plowshares. I'd hold the GSZ back at least a turn, Knight presents better ability to race than rushing out GSZ into Scryb Ranger. I'd lean towards the Savannah pull, because I like having the Ranger + Thalia follow up though to at least buy some time.

Again if the Delver flipped off anything other than a cantrip it could have a big impact on line of play.

IDK, that would be my line of thinking/play given the knowns.

hey guys, new to the forum but wanted to make a quick post. played in the scg open today with the fauna shaman version of the deck. made top 16 with the deck. the unlikely mvp for me today was the maindeck peacekeeper. it allowed me to get past several show and tell matchups and a belcher's empty the warrens. Definitely a metagame call and I can completely understand if some believe it is completely aweful to maindeck, but it paid off today. did not take long

Round 1 Game 1 (i win die roll)

me: turn 1 noble
opp: island preordain
me: turn 2 fauna shaman
opp: ponder fetch volcanic preordain
me: turn 3 pass with 3 open mana
opp: comments that i should have just played mindcensor on my turn when he is tapped out.
opp: turn 3 show and tell, me response fetch peace keeper, opponent goes on tilt

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Originally Posted by legend88

opp: turn 3 show and tell, me response fetch peace keeper, opponent goes on tilt

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Hahaha! Love it! Good meta call :)

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Originally Posted by legend88

opp: turn 3 show and tell, me response fetch peace keeper, opponent goes on tilt

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This made my day. Use every opportunity to tilt hurpy-durpy opponents!

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Originally Posted by from Cairo

We should have a known Instant/Sorcery in hand off the Delver flip that could dictate line of play, but w/o that information...

I think the presented pressure of a flipped Delver is pretty noteworthy. If they lead a Nimble or fail to blind flip a Delver I would tend to play more conservatively, but realistically you're facing 4 turns to swing board state. Honestly this is a bad place to be with Maverick, there's a good chance they have Daze or FoW up, and with 2 mana available they have free reign to Stifle your next fetch and still interact with your play.

I'd play/crack Windswept Heath. If allowed to fetch I'd either aggressively pull Savannah for it's better interaction with a potential GSZ'd Scryb or alternatively Plains if trying to solidify up against Wasteland. Regardless with my :g::g::w:, I'd jam Knight of the Reliquary. It maybe gets Dazed or FoW'd but those spells are going to counter something. We have 2x Fetches in the 'yard at this point so Knight's in the clear vs Bolt effects. If they have the FoW or Daze the following turn's line of play should probably be GSZ for Scryb Ranger, return Savannah, untap Dryad Arbor, replay and push Thalia. With the Plains I'd probably GSZ for Scryb if I didn't hit the land or push QPM then Thalia if I hit the 4th mana source.

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well, if fetch is allowed, I would land thalia for sure and play around daze as long as possible. Especially with thalia on board he can only kill it next turn, if he has no spell snare or force, forcing thalia is even better, since we can land knight later if we draw another land even with playing around daze.
playing into daze when you are not really pressed hard is just wrong, a flipped delver with still 17 life points is not that bad. Since a Knight on board is kind of a win, you need to do everything possible to resolver it. If you can evade daze DO IT or if you have time left, WAIT for it.

Had a pretty good run yesterday at the SCG Open in Columbus. Finished 9th, .8xx of a percentage point on breakers. Started out 0-1-1 and railed of 7 straight wins for a shot at top 8 and just missed. And for the record it was a phyrexian revoker, not metamorph in my sb. Was very happy with the deck all day.

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Originally Posted by Mkr

Hey all, I'm pretty new to Maverick and I just want to ask what do you guys think is the correct play in this situation:

Preboard, Turn 2 (on the draw), my turn:

Opp's board: Tapped Flipped Delver, Volcanic Island, Scalding Tarn

My board: Forest, Dryad Arbor
My hand: Windswept Heath, Sylvan Library, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, Qasali Pridemage, Thalia
My GY: Misty Rainforest

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This depends on several factors we don't know:
1. What your opponent's holding off the flipped Delver.
2. What your life total is (I assume 16 or 17)
3. How many lands are in your graveyard (IE, whether you fetched the first forest or not)
4. Are you maindecking Maze of Ith? (You should be)
5. How many cards are in your opponent's hand?

The primary points to this situation are as follows:
1. From this board position, you aren't going to outrace this Delver. Not against a deck full of burn and sneaky counters.
2. Therefore, you've got to do everything you can to STOP this Delver.

Three cards in your hand could let you stop Delver: Knight of the Reliquary (If you have the Maze, like you should), Sylvan Library (If it digs you into Swords to Plowshares or a Jitte), and Green Sun's Zenith for either Knight or Scryb Ranger, which is a last ditch choice because it won't actually kill the Delver and dies to burn.

It's also worth noting you don't have a fourth or fifth mana source. Which means if he's got a Stifle and a Daze or two, you're just dead. Period.

So assuming he got a non-counter off the Delver, and assuming I'm running Maze, I'd probably play my fetchland and not crack it, then lead with the Sylvan. If he has a counter off the Delver, I think I'd lead with Thalia and make him spend something getting rid of it.

Either way, if you don't draw a land or STP next turn, you're hurting.

Ooops, sorry for the incomplete information. Missed quite a few details. Anyways, awesome responses guys - learning quite a lot.

My MD is nearly the same as conley1000000's, 3 card difference:
-1 Linvala
-1 Qasali PM
-1 Cavern of Souls
+2 Aven Mindcensor
+1 Sylvan Safekeeper

Here's a better description:
Opp T1:
Volcanic Island, Delver

My T1:
Opening hand: Windswept Heath, Misty Rainforest, Knight of the Reliquary, GSZ, GSZ, Thalia, Sylvan Library; drew QPM
Fetch Forest, GSZ to Dryad Arbor

Opp T2:
Blind flip Delver with Thought Scour, Scalding Tarn (5 cards in hand). Attack with Delver.

My T2 (now at 16 life):
Drew 2nd QPM; Main phase

What I did was to try and fetch for a Plains - if it goes through, cast Thalia; if not, play the Library instead. No Stifle so Thalia gets in but on his turn - Forked Bolt. Ouch. Never drew Swords, but eventually I was able to stabilize a bit with an Active Knight when I was down to 4. Unfortunately on the next few turns he cantripped his way to burn and was able to finish me before my creatures ran him over. :laugh:

There was an article on SCG a few weeks ago stating that maverick should make some changes for the current meta by trying to include Armageddon.. I'd like everyone's thoughts on if this. Would it be a valid addition to Mavrick to improve any of our bad matchups? If so, in what way.. and also what would we cut?

I have seen the occasional Gideon Jura pop up in a few lists' sideboards and I'd like to understand the reasoning behind this. In what matchups would you bring him in?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by delcameron

I have seen the occasional Gideon Jura pop up in a few lists' sideboards and I'd like to understand the reasoning behind this. In what matchups would you bring him in?

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For me his main purpose was to come in for the Maverick mirror. He also works as a catch-all for the random creature decks you can face i.e. elves, goblins, affinity(my round 4 match) to just help get reset after the super fast starts they can sometimes have. It definetly looks akward with Thalia, but usually she comes out and he comes in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryscott85

There was an article on SCG a few weeks ago stating that maverick should make some changes for the current meta by trying to include Armageddon

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I haven't tested armageddon, but it seems like Thalia/wasteland combined do a fantastic job holding opponents off a high output of mana. I run choke sb for the control decks who would want alot of mana available and it seemed to do the trick quite well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ryscott85

There was an article on SCG a few weeks ago stating that maverick should make some changes for the current meta by trying to include Armageddon.. I'd like everyone's thoughts on if this. Would it be a valid addition to Mavrick to improve any of our bad matchups? If so, in what way.. and also what would we cut?

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Armageddon is a very powerful card. If you play it when you are ahead you will almost always win. However, if you play it and you don't find any mana, you have set yourself so far behind that a topdecked terminus will just lose you the game. You are running 22-24 lands plus Noble Hierarchs and I know there have been times where I have been manascrewed even with that much mana.

You also have to recognize that with a Thalia in play that you have to pay 5 to cast it and once you cast it your GSZ still costs one more. So when you plan to armageddon you are typically losing 4 lands (assuming you have a Hierarch in play) and you have done so on turn 4 or 5. I think this is too late against most decks right now. RUG Delver can out tempo you and it only needs 1-3 lands to play their deck efficiently and Sneak and Show plays sol lands to counteract the Thalia and still Show and Tell on turn 3 or Sneak Attack on turn 4.

I think armageddon is could be very good right now but it would require you to build the deck completely different in order to come out ahead after you armageddon. Maybe this requires adding a few Mox Diamonds or Chrome Moxes to the list or even Flagstones. I don't know but I think it has potential.

For all who are sceptical about Armageddon, I would like to add an alternative: Tangle Wire.
For the first two turns it does about the same, but your own recovery is easier and it costs a mana less.

Against control, Tangle Wire is a lot less strong than Armageddon, because it only works a couple of turns, and it doesn't shut down all mana sources, just a few. But, against Show&tell and Storm it's quicker and shuts them down for a few turns, giving you just enough time to either kill them or set up a line of hatebears.
Against RUG Delver it's also playable. Wire gives you the initiative, and that alone can turn a match around in which he opened a t2: flip Delver (something Mav typically has issues with).

I'd test this before I'd test Geddon.

Gideon is mainly for the mirror (gets Mom's to attack or tap and causes blocking shortages allowing for alpha strike). Gideon's -2 ability can also act like a 5th swords effect, especially on the turn Gideon comes into play. conley1000000, interesting note about the random creature decks. I guess Gideon acts as a 1-turn fog effect and allows you to selectively block.

Armageddon - there is a lot of Spell Pierce running around. I'm wary because paying 6 for Armageddon is impractical. It's probably best to run Life from the Loam and Wastelands (or Ghost Quarter if you really wanted to get tricky). I haven't read the SCG article, but I have seen at least one recent Maverick sideboard with Armageddon in it. Personally, I think it's more suited for white stax or another control deck. You don't necessarily want to play long games with Maverick, it's preferable to stabilize and get in a few swings for a mid-game (turn 6-9) win.

Tangle Wire probably belongs in another deck (MUD or a blue deck), but it is a nice card. As Asthereal mentions, it shines vs. Tempo decks that have few permanents in play. Additionally, Tangle Wire counts as a permanent itself, so you always have to tap 2 fewer permanents than your opponent (you place Tangle Wire's tap trigger on the stack, followed by Tangle Wire's remove 1 counter trigger, so you remove a counter before you tap (1 less permanent tapped than your opponent) and you can tap the Tangle Wire). I built a blue deck that attempted Tangle Wire / Esperzoa locks, and it worked when both pieces were found, but it could be inconsistent.