Thanks for the reply, I figured it was mostly an auto loss. Just wanted to see if I might have been missing a small thing
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Thanks for the reply, I figured it was mostly an auto loss. Just wanted to see if I might have been missing a small thing
While definitely not a favorable matchup, the reanimator isn't that hard, I mean they can blow us out with a quick entomb/ reanimate elesh norn (or most fatties really) and we can't to nothing, but Storm can blow us out with equally ease if they got a good draw, IMO it all comes down to cabal therapy, naming the right cards can slow then down several turns, while they reasemble we can beat them, or we can just outspeed if they can't counter us right of the bat (another reason that cabal therapy shines), I would say that is a closer matchup than it looks on paper and they also pack only light hate (coffin purge/ surgical at best) 60/40 for reanimator, and 50/50 if using no DR in the main deck, for it gives us more speed or using DR but with the right targets ( Flayer can put then in a clock and ashen rider is boss).
So there was only ~38 players in the GPT I went to in Rhode Island :(. I ended up playing a really weird sideboard because I had to make due with what I had access to. Here's what I played followed by a baby report:
//Lands-14
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
4 Cephalid Coliseum
2 Tarnished Citadel
//Creatures-22
4 Stinkweed Imp
4 Golgari Grave-Troll
4 Golgari Thug
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
3 Putrid Imp
-//Spells-24
4 Faithless Looting
4 Careful Study
4 Breakthrough
4 Bridge from Below
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
//Sideboard-15
2 Dread Return
1 Putrid Imp
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Ashen Ghoul
3 Pithing Needle
3 Chain of Vapor
4 Thoughtseize
Round 1 vs. BURG-
G1- I win the roll and go off turn one with LED+Study+Troll+Looting. When I therapy him he asks to see my graveyard, and I'm surprised he doesn't immediately scoop 'em up. Since I'm blind here I only really fear a possible combo deck so I nane LED and whiff, seeing 2 Delvers, Ooze, Daze and some Lands including a Wasteland. My second Therapy takes the Delvers so I can swing next turn without losing my Bridges, and I pass. He plays land go. I bring back Ichorid and crack him for 7, pass turn making 2 more zombies. He lays Ooze and ships, 2 Ichorids join my 5 zombies and that's game.
G2- I mull to five and see a decent hand. He leads with Delver go. I tank for a bit and play a Therapy off a City and name Tormod's Crypt, only to see a hand of 3 Wastes, a Daze, and a Stifle. His Delvers flips off another Stifle, he wastes City and cracks in for 3. Now I'm definitely boned since he has a Daze for my discard outlet and a Waste for my last land. I hindsight this was a misplay since I should've just respected the Wasteland+Daze combination and went for my discard outlet on turn one. I feared gravehate to much and it cost me dearly here.
G3- I forget the details in this one, but it involved me keeping a nice hand and doing a lot of dredging. But before that happened, I was forced to take two natural draw steps, I drew Narcomoeba's both times. So upon dredging through a little more than half my deck I couldn't find a creature. I lost to the Delver beats plus 6 damage from my own lands(Citadel&City). 0-1 (1-2)
Round 2 vs. Omnitell-
G1- He wins the roll and is able to combo off after my 2 Therapies(1st one blind ripped a S&T).
G2- I get the nuts draw on a mull to four, LED, LED, Study, Troll. I didn't even have to use the 2nd LED and Therapy just destroyed him.
G3- I forget my hand here, but I remember I kept my 7 and he mulled to 6. I go crazy turn 2, and when I therapy him he Brainstorms in response hiding 2 combo pieces. He shows me 2Ponder, 2Preordain and non Sol land. I rip the cantrips with two more therapies and pass with tons of zombies, he packs it up. 1-1 (3-3)
Round 3 vs. Uw Miracles(md 2 RiP and 3 E Tutors)
G1- We both kniw what each other is on. I win the roll and we both go back for a new 6. I rip his hand apart with Therapies but I make a misplay, which I noticed immediately, of bringing back all three Ichorids against his active Top. Luckily I dodge a bullet and he didn't have the Terminus.
G2- I get crushed by turn 1 Top, turn 2 RiP, turn 3 EoT Tutor for Helm, turn 5 gg.
G3- He slows me down with a FoW and a Spell Pierce, then lands a RiP against my 1 card in hand, LED, City and Coliseum. I pop the Coliseum in response to the RiP and find a Chain of Vapor to hold on to. After 3 turns my hand is good enough to EoT bounce thhe RiP and attempt to go off. I figure I have to go all in here, I dredge all my deck except 16 cards at this point and when I sac my only Narcomoeba for a Therapy to take the RiP, he shows me E Tutor, Helm, and a blank. In response to my second Therapy he wipes my board with Terminus and I now have no tokens so I have to pass. He spins his his Top after replaying it, taps it to draw and slams another RiP. He kills me with the Helm 2 turns later. 1-2 (4-5)
Round 4 vs. Werewolf Stompy
G1- We don't kniw what the other is on this time. This was a very awkward and lucky game for me. I have to mull to 4 and my hand is trash, I lead with Citadel pass and he has no idea what I'm on. He plays turn one 3sphere, ouch. I draw and say go. He lands turn 2 Blood Moon, say go. I draw and pass, he lands Revoker and names Mother of Runes(LOL!) and ships back to me. I take beats from Revoker and draw up to 8 cards and dump a Troll on my cleanup step to star slow dredging. I eventually hit Ichorids and Bridges and take the game over after I did nothing on my first 6(!) turns. He kept drawing Moon, Moxen, and the like and had no real clock, I got lucky there.
G2- I played like a idiot, his Moon and Faerie Macabre slowed me down enough and I died to Revoker and Thundermaw. Yikes.
G3- I went nuts on turn two and he couldn't do much after using his Macabre to hit a Dredger on his first turn. Ashen Ghoul put in some damage! 2-2(6-6)
Round 5 vs. Jund-
G1- I win the die roll and he has no real business against me, I easily get there.
G2- I mull to five after he keeps 7. He leads with Deathrite, I play a land. He wastes my land and plays Bob. I proceed to get steam rolled from this point on as my only other land was Coliseum and I had no blue spells for it.
G3- We both mull to 6. I play Study and dump two Thugs, he plays a Shaman. I needle the Shaman and Dredge a Thug back on turn 2. He plays a Goyf and ships back to me. I blow the game open with Breakthrough and he had nothing to stop me from winning two turns later. 3-2 (8-7)
Round 6 vs. Belcher-
G1- We know this will be a race and I win the roll. I play land, Imp, go. He plays a Mox and ships back. I go nuts with Breakthrough, therapy him a few times (blind named Belcher and whiffed) and win two turns later.
G2- He plays nothing and passes the turn, sweet. I blind Therapy turn one, again naming Belcher and whiff, which is fine obviously. He plays a mox and nothing else. I make some zombies, destroy his hand and swing in for a few points of damage. He can't do anything except draw and pass. I swing him down to 2 and end my turn with 18 zombies in play, he draws and scoops.
4-2 (10-7)
I ended up in 11th missing top8 due to bad breakers from losing two early rounds.
I was very happy with the maindeck and winning die rolls. My sideboard didn't do me much good at all even though I did cast a Thoughtseize against Miracles which he Forced. I Needled a Shaman which helped, and I landed a winmore Iona against Omnitell. I really want to iron out a working sideboard strategy and then get the cards, I just have no way of testing at the moment and did VERY minimal testing before this event.
Your main deck is really sweet, but you wiffed a lot of therapys, most of the games you lost could easily be wins if you named the right card.Quote:
Originally Posted by HammafistRoob
then again, therapy is the hardest card on the deck to master, and practice is a good way to get good with the deck, you did a lot of misplays but you won a good percentage of your games with skill, so congratulations mate!
I whiffed Therapies because I name cards that will beat me. Like against Belcher the whiffs made no difference and I named the right card. I'm pretty sure I've yet to meet anyone as good with Therapy as myself, not to sound uber conceded or anything. I used to play mono black A LOT about five years ago, everyone thought it wasn't a real deck but it didn't stop me from winning a crazy percentage of my games off the back of Therapy. Thanks dude, but 11th clearly deserves no kudos :).
The placings are irrelevant, the games you won, you did with skill, so that deserves kudosQuote:
Originally Posted by HammafistRoob
about the therapys, while i'm no specialist, I can't say I suck with them, against belcher name goblin charbelcher ( like you did), but on the other games you could have done diferently ( not to say that you did anything '"wrong" as Cabal therapy is a dificult card to master and you are clearly experienced with the card), but it did cost you some games.
Andrew Dziedzic got 4th place this weekend at SGC Legacy Open Milwaukee with a DR Flayer build. Interesting to see Wispmare in his sideboard.
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=59866
That vintage tech.
cool sideboard, but what's the advantage of Ingot chewer and wispmare over say, ancient grudge/ ray of revelation? can somebody explaim why the cute tech is better? I get that they sometimes nets BFB tokens, but does it make up for the loss of instant speed and flashback? what am I missing?
And while I loved Andrew list, I personally don't like that low land/dredger count, it makes the deck way too unreliable.
Wispmare/Chewer will give you a creature in the yard after evoking them. I don't really see it as so great however, as the GY will be empty when evoking/after evoking. If you evoke Wispmare to kill a RiP it will find an empty GY. If you evoke Chewer they will probably activate crypt/relic in response. The only time it could net you zombies is Chewer on Cage and Wispmare on a hardcast Leyline. But maybe I'm missing something as I have only thought about this plan, never tried it for real.
If you don't need them, you can evoke them for tokens. They are also extra creatures for Troll. They also don't cost 2 mana like Grudge/Ray.
I dislike Chewer and Mare for those reasons. Additionally, the Sorcery-speed hurts in a deck that has little available mana on it's own turn. The main reason I eschew them, is that being single-mode destruction spells, they halve your SB slots for Artifact and Enchantment removal.Quote:
Originally Posted by tyriion
That said, there are many reasons to run them that besides their use as anti-hate, for which I don't think they are optimal.
Dodge Pierce
Beat Chalice
Dodge Thalia
Dodge Thorn
Are better against Counterbalance
Can be recurred with Dread Return
Can be recurred with Thug
Get Bridge tokens
Have no "drawbacks", such as the life gain from Claim, or the redirect bounce of Chain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parcher
I belive you got it right, I will try ingot chewer in my sideboard on my next tour, just to see how well it does, he has have some advantages over ancient grudge that I didn't know about ( such as dodge pierce and thalia, not to mention the cute trick with thug). IMO it's worth a shot.
thanks for the info!
I personally like it a lot more than spells. One note to the list above is that it also dodges Chalice of the Void.
People are going to protect their hate, make their protection even more worthless.:wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by JPoJohnson
Quote:
Originally Posted by Parcher
Hey everyone took dredge to a local last week. We had a huge turnout oddly and I ended up going 5-1 with my list losing in the finals to a friend: /
my list
Creatures
4 grave-troll
4 stinkweed imp
3 thug
4 putrid imp
3 Ichorid
4 Narcomoeba
1 Flayer of the Hatebound
Business
4 LED
4 Careful Study
3 Faithless Looting
3 Breakthrough
2 Dread Return
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Bridge from Below
Lands
4 Cephalid Coliseum
4 Gemstone Mine
4 City of Brass
1 Tarnished Citadel
Sideboard
2 Gitaxian Probe
2 Nether shadow
1 Ancient Grudge
3 nature’s claim
3 pithing needle
2 firestorm
1 Iona
1 Elesh
Round 1 vs Goblins
I’ve never seen the dude before and have no idea what he’s playing. He wins the die roll and chooses to go first. He fetches into a taiga then plays aether vial. My opening 7 is gemstone, gemstone, led, breakthrough, troll, troll, narcomoeba. I draw a looting, play the mine, led, then go nuts, flayering him that turn. On to game 2.
Sideboarding
-1 Tarnished Citadel
-1 Putrid Imp
+2 Gitaxian Probes
Game two I mull to six and keep a putrid imp, city of brass, probe, careful study, troll. He Leads off again, fetching then playing a goblin lackey (yikes)… I draw a cephalid coliseum, play land then Putrid Imp, I dump the grave troll into the yard then pay 2 life for gitaxian probe. I dredge six, getting one bridge and a therapy and he reveals a hand with both a skirk prospector, two matrons , and two lands. I swing for two in the air, then flashback therapy naming prospector to get a zombie to block his lackey and pass. On his turn he draws, play’s a land then passes. On my turn I dredge, cast careful study find a narco therapy and bridge. I take the two matrons out of his hand to see he had drawn a siege gang commander. I swing with one of my zombies leaving the other two back. I win this game with zombie ichorid beatdown.
Round 2 vs Manaless 0.o
This guy I played was really cool, always nice playing against a fun player as we were joking the whole time. He wins the die roll and chooses to be on the play and asks if I know what he’s on yet lol. I respond by saying I do and that he won’t like this game as he realizes I’m on LED dredge. I turn one flayer him game one then game two dread return elesh norn on turn three. Quick game so I was able to get food while everyone was playing.
Round 3 vs Omni-tell
I’m always surprised at how easy this match up is. With the number of counterspells they pack I would Imagine they would be a tougher game but it’s never the case lol. The guy I’m playing is a regular at the store the tourni took place at like me so I know what he’s on. I win the die roll and keep a hand with putrid Imp, led, breakthrough, city, city, stinkweed imp, looting. I lead off by playing a putrid Imp, he responds by forcing it pitching a preordain. On his turn he plays an island then ponders… doesn’t like any of the three so he ships them back shuffles and draws a card then passes. On my turn I draw another stinkweed imp, play my second land play the LED, cast breakthrough and crack the LED after maintaining priority, I ask if the spell resolves and he says it does.. at which point I do my dredge shenanigans and flayer him after taking show and tell and enter the infinite out of his hand wit therapies.
Sideboarding
-1 Flayer
+1 Iona
This game was honestly hilarious… as I started out mulling into oblivion. My seven was aweful, my six worse, my five was garbage, and my four cards were study, thug, land, land. He plays an Island and ponders then passes. I draw an Iona off the top… laugh a lil on the inside play my land and careful study, he forces the study pitching a brainstorm. His turn he drops a sol land and play’s show and tell … I put my card face down and say I die to an emrakul and he asks why. We flip our cards and he has revealed omniscience where I reveal Iona… lol I beat him down with her to win the game.
Round 4 vs Junk
I’ve never seen this dude and don’t know what he’s on. Lot of new people came in to play apparently. I win the die roll and elect to go first, I mull to six and my hand was putrid led, troll, gemstone, gemstone, breakthrough, breakthrough. I play the gemstone, the led, go through the dredging motions and reveal some narcos and therapies with some bridges. I flashback therapy on him and he just scoops… he stated he was already behind at the point and would rather just conceal info for game two… so just like that were on to game two lol.
I go fearless for this game as I have no idea what he’s on. I was tempted to bring it natures claim’s as a catch all but figured there was always game three. I mull to six again with putrid imp, thug , bridge, ichorid, city of brass. He plays a deathrite shaman and passes -_ -… I draw a troll off the top, play my putrid imp then pass. On his turn he fetches into a swamp, then thoughtseizes me… He takes my bridge and puts it into the yard of all things which I thought was weird and passes. At the end of his turn I dump a thug into the yard. He eats it, in response to the deathrite I dump the troll. He surgically extracts it - _ -… so I’m left to draw a card. On his turn he surgically extracts my bridges and drops another deathrite so I’m never in this game at all.
Game three
-1 tarnished citadel
-1 Putrid Imp
+2 Nether Shadow
I mull to six again and keep, was careful study, looting, two stinkweeds, cephalid coliseum, LED. My opponent had mulled to five so I felt pretty good. I play LED, land, study crack the LED… I dredge about twenty cards revealing two narco’s a bridge, an ichorid and two therapies… He let’s the narco’s resolve and they hit the battlefield. I flashback a therapy naming deathrite shaman and get one out of his hand, the rest of the cards were two fetches, knight of the reliquary, and goyf. He plays a land and passes. I dredge more getting another bridge and two ichorids. Therapy away his goyf seeing he had drawn another knight. I attack for two and have two summoning sick zombies and pass.He draws, plays a deathrite and passes. I bring back an ichorid, dredge another stinkweed imp getting a flayer. I attack then dread return flayer for the kill. I ask if his five was worth it and he said if given a chance he could have bogged me with kotr turn three and that was about it.
Round 5 vs RIP Miracles
This was against my friend and this matchup is nigh impossible. He has counterspells for my combo, terminus for my zombie hordes, and maindeck rest in peace. Game one he goes first and plays RIP turn two… nothing I could do. Game I draw a nut hand but it dies to his force of will, and he proceeds to play RIP lol.
Overall I was pretty happy with the day. Got paired against a lot of favorable match-ups outside of the finals and the sideboard was decent. Not sure how I feel about probes… was testing them this day to see if they made the deck faster and outside of the goblins game I didn’t use them. Deck was hot all day though. Beat decks I was supposed to beat and lost to what I was supposed to. Fav moment was dropping iona off of omnitells show and tell lol.
Glad people are looking into Wispmare and Ingot Chewer again.
These are the exact reasons why I WOULD run them. I think the benefits outweigh the fact that you have to eat up a couple more slots in your sb.Quote:
I dislike Chewer and Mare for those reasons. Additionally, the Sorcery-speed hurts in a deck that has little available mana on it's own turn. The main reason I eschew them, is that being single-mode destruction spells, they halve your SB slots for Artifact and Enchantment removal.
That said, there are many reasons to run them that besides their use as anti-hate, for which I don't think they are optimal.
Dodge Pierce
Beat Chalice
Dodge Thalia
Dodge Thorn
Are better against Counterbalance
Can be recurred with Dread Return
Can be recurred with Thug
Get Bridge tokens
Have no "drawbacks", such as the life gain from Claim, or the redirect bounce of Chain
Quote:
Originally Posted by raikenxy
Congrats on the finish!
how is this sideboard doing for you?
Thank you, and the sideboard is iffy. I don't normally run the probes and wanted to put them in to see how they would work in testing. I added them in a rather easy match up against goblins and the one I saw did what it was supposed to do in providing me a free dredge and cabal therapy info. Nether shadows are occasional mvps as they allow me the flexibility to play my ichorids or narco's against surgical's. The rest of the board is pretty standard stuff, ancient grudge might find it's way out as I haven't played against deathblade in my area in a long time. I'm going to test out ingot chewer and whispmare as my buddy does play RIP miracles, and more and more chalice decks are beginning to pop up. I didn't play any of them but i know there was at least one stompy deck, two MUDs and and a tezz control at the local.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad Teppes
currently i've been trying to think of ways to make my deck faster against deathrite shaman decks when on the draw game two. The only thing i've come up with is being to cycle street wraith and i don't wanna pull the trigger on adding four of those to the sideboard just yet so if anyone has idea's on this though I'd love to hear them.
Pithing needles are great somedays and horrible others. But i would say they are pretty good at what their supposed to do, either naming deathrite or nihil spellbomb or any artifact based hate. However I could easily see cutting them in favor of something more geared to making the deck faster.
Iona and Elesh are just too good. They both just answer so many decks I feel running them both in the side is respectable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by raikenxy
I like chain of vapor when I'm blind boarding, even tough it's situational, it can bounce a DR shaman and any other permanent hate, and any explosive hand can take down a DR shaman before it does too much damage to us, but he's clearly a problem to the deck, but IDK if we must have a card in our SB to deal with him...
I'm looking to buy a Dredge deck; however, I don't have $400 to drop of LEDs at the moment. (Yes, I realize that the resulting deck will be suboptimal - however, things like bills and car payments need to come first.)
After playing a bit on Cockatrice my opinion is that the 60 should contain 0 Dread Returns and (obviously) 0 reanimation targets. The SB should have 2-3 Dread Returns, 2 Ionas, and 2 Elesh Norns. If either of those opinions are incorrect, please let me know.
Does anybody have any suggestions on a 75 that *could* perform decently, and easily switch over to a standard LED build after I have the disposable income?
when I didin't had the LEDs I used 3 firestorm and an fourth breaktrough instead, and my sideboard was:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandemic21
1- elesh norn grand cenobite
1- Iona shield of Emeria
1- ray of revelation
2- ancient grudge
2- Dread return
2- Ashen ghoul
3- thoughtseize
3- chain of vapor
It was decent at the time but I will admit that firestorm is a SB card and not a main deck one, and can be a dead draw sometimes (mainly against decks that run no creatures at all such as storm or belcher) but IMO it's the best repleacement for LED at the time, try it out! and good luck with the deck mate!
So i finally caved in and got some LED's
Can someone tell me how this should effect my sideboard? My current sideboard looks like this (without LED's):
Sideboard (15)
1x Ashen Rider
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
4x Firestorm
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
4x Nature's Claim
2x Pithing Needle
Also, if possible, please explain why and when the cards are needed
Another thing also. What is the reason for Flayer as DR target instead of Zealot/Griselbrand (My current 'package')?
Thanks in advance! :)
Flayer + 2 DR + Troll (or 2nd Flayer if you are playing two) allows you to kill your opponent on the spot without having to rely on attacking with your horde of zombies. You reanimate Flayer (dome opponent for 4), then reanimate Troll (you can sac Flayer for DR, doming opponent for additional 5). Troll enters the battefield, dome opponent for millions and win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rook1e
I got that part :) But i'm just not sure if it is better (i.e. faster) than Zealot/Griselbrand? Which situations is it that hinders our attack?Quote:
Originally Posted by chlb
Also, do you have any recommendations for my sideboard?
You need to get enough zombies for the zealot rush to be lethal, with flayer you can kill with only one bridge in the graveyard. Flayer also works if opponent has something like Elephant Grass or Peacekeeper in play.
As for the sideboard, if you want extra help with the reanimation plan and battling against Surgical Extractions, I recommend trying out either Nether Shadow or Ashen Ghoul. I am at work so cannot write long posts, might write more in the evening if I have time. HammafistRoob had a good looking sideboard posted with commentary a couple of pages back.
Okay.. I'm convinced ^^
How does this look then (both Main and SB):
Creature (23)
2x Flayer of the Hatebound
4x Golgari Grave-Troll
3x Golgari Thug
3x Ichorid
4x Narcomoeba
3x Putrid Imp
4x Stinkweed Imp
Enchantment (4)
4x Bridge from Below
Artifact (4)
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Sorcery (17)
3x Breakthrough
4x Cabal Therapy
4x Careful Study
2x Dread Return
4x Faithless Looting
Land (12)
4x Cephalid Coliseum
4x City of Brass
4x Gemstone Mine
Sideboard (15)
1x Ancient Grudge
3x Chain of Vapor
1x Dread Return
1x Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
3x Firestorm
1x Iona, Shield of Emeria
2x Nether Shadow
3x Thoughtseize
If you like the Dread return package the deck is really good,, but I would go - 1 flayer of the hatebound and + 1 rainbow land (tarnished citadel or undiscovered paradise) for added consistency (less mulligans), your sideboard is really good, I like it a lotQuote:
Originally Posted by Rook1e
Has anyone here tried Forsaken City recently? The only person I know of that has tried them is Parcher and that was over a year ago. It has the same awkward drawback of undiscovered paradise in that it sometimes can't be used for a turn 2 Coliseum activation. My first thought is that it's probably bad, but Citadel hurts a lot when you're trying to race Delver+ disruption.
About sideboarding, I don't believe I've seen an optimal sideboard yet. Every card at our disposal either slows us down or is to narrow for my liking. Where's my Leyline of the Grave wizards?
Sitting there not being a Leyline it appears: Ground Seal
It's painfully slow though, and having two lands after a mull or two is pretty hard. If it was one mana, it'd be borderline broken in this deck.
I'd agree with this advice for your list, you only actually need one dread return target in your main if you run it at all, the deck is still a a walking dead overrunning machine. 1 flayer and 2 dread returns keep the consistency at a level where both plans are viable and provides you a mide game moment where you say "oh, i win now"Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad Teppes
the only diff between your main and mine is that i run three lootings instead of four and four putrid imps instead of three, i do that only since i'd rather dredge into looting then have it in my hand with a cephalid coliseum as my only land but this choice is stirctly personal preference.
i think you can cut the thir dread return in your board and ad the fourth breakthrough for your combo matchups, i've only ever wanted two and your deck is fast enough to get to one if your boading into either elesh or iona. i've never tested thoughtseize in the baord so i can't comment on that, but i love nether shadow in the board
I will definitely cut the third DR in the SB. On Nether Shadow, i've actually not tried them yet, just put them in there on a friends advice. But i've yet to figure out which MU's they are going in against :DQuote:
Originally Posted by raikenxy
Dredge's sideboard is a hard matter to discuss as we don't build our sideboards like any other deck in the format does.Quote:
Originally Posted by HammafistRoob
I've seen some crazy stuff like Stiffle and ground seal in some sideboards and the ppl who used them could swear they worked fine, I've never tested them myself but I don't think they will be any good in dredge, normaly dredge sideboard is composed of:
Extra parts of the deck: It's normal to find the fourth or third piece of breaktrough, Ichorid or cabal therapy sitting in the board for especifc matchups
Dread return/ DR targets: Ppl who don't use dread return main can use then as a plan B in the sideboard and those who use it main deck often have some extra targets in the board
Anti hate: This varies from player to player, many don't even use anti hate at all, and others like me likes to have some anti hate to combat the increasing "dredge hosers", normal pieces of anti hate are:
Pithing needle (permanent)
Nature's claim (artifacts and enchantments)
Ancient grudge (Artifacts, has flashback)
Ray of revelation ( Enchantments, has flashback)
Ingot Chewer ( Artifacts, dodges chalice and spell pierce among others)
Wispmare ( enchantments, dodges chalice and spell pierce among others)
Chain of Vapor ( any nonland permanent,but it can be chained back)
Disruption Thoughtseize, duress and unmask can make some appearances should the player need a proative answer to hate or combo
Removal to take out scaveging ooze and DR shaman, normally firestorm fills the slot but darkblast can show up too to destroy a sick shaman or X/1 creatures
extra creatures Ashen ghoul and nether shadow can fill the slot should surgical extraction/ extirpate threatens to take all your recursive creatures away from you, they also compliment the Dread return plan.
grave hate It's normal to dredge players to dedicate some slots in the sb for grave hate, it normally varies from light hate ( purify the grave, memory's journey) to Leyline of the void
The post was long but it's normally the pattern I see when searching for dredge lists from recent top 8s.
I'm well aware of what pieces people have used, I just question the effectiveness of them is all. Diluting the deck by siding in a bunch of anti-hate has never really worked out for me, and siding in only 4 pieces doesn't really get you anywhere consistently.
Also, somebody said they play 3 Lootings? That is definitely not correct, having 8 cards that draw and discard is undoubtedly the way to go. Pimp is fine, but the only thing he does is discard, and feed Ichorids, but I've never had a problem feeding them with 3 or 2 Pimps. Even when I had no Imps main, very rarely did I have trouble bringing back Ichorids. Your focus shouldn't be on bringing stuff back, it should be on getting to that point in the first place, i.e dredging a fuckton of cards.
putrid imp does that by putting dredgers in your graveyard, acting as a body to sac to cabal therapy, and allows you to play around gravehate... so saying his only focus in the deck is to bring back ichorid is wrong. and saying his only use is to discard is kinda redundant ... being able to discard our hand is actually a pretty relevant ability ... i'd rather use ichorid to set up a careful study or breakthrough then use a careful study to put my dredgers in the yard... especially when the goal is to dredge a fuckton of cards since you've effectively saved your draw spell to dredge.Quote:
Originally Posted by HammafistRoob
got your point, but draw spells are the premier targets for discard and counterspells,and Pimp is horrible in multiples (draw spells on the other hand are awsome), but you definitely got a good point, Pimp can work well in the graveyard (ichorid food) is cabal therapy food and is a repetitive discard outlet and beater, I wouldn't run any less than 3.Quote:
Originally Posted by raikenxy
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Pandemic21 please check your private messages.
Sorry bout that folks we now return you to the thread at hand. :-)
I agree about Dread Return being a matter of opinion > Quadlaser works fine without them after all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pandemic21
For me, before I got the LED's, I tested a few different options, including Tirless Tribe, Street Wraith & Gitaxian Probe.
All three had merit, although Street Wraith being an uncounterable cycle/Dredge had a slight edge I think, considering it works well with Ichorid also.
Regarding fighting hate;
I find this is very opinionated, and since we're all facing a variety of different hate depending on where you are, player preference and of course what decks are popular around you;
I don't think there will ever be an *optimal* jack-of-all-trades sideboard. Ever.
While this is true, when you compare the recent results of the deck ( the one using the same list, or similar list) it's visible that we are getting somewhere of a pattern in our sideboards. I still belive that there's a card in this enormous pool that will solve some of our problems but we didn't found it yetQuote:
Originally Posted by slave
BTW we are back in DTB! I don't know if this is good for us tough, but it's a sign that all this hate isn't pushing the deck back!