Totem requires mana to activate. May be better in control builds. IDK, since it was a long time since i did control:-)
Anyway, don't be annoying by calling yourself bad. You are playing pox, right?:cool:
Printable View
Totem requires mana to activate. May be better in control builds. IDK, since it was a long time since i did control:-)
Anyway, don't be annoying by calling yourself bad. You are playing pox, right?:cool:
I second the second part of this. As a pox player you're not particularly a bad player, just a bad person and a griefer. At least that's what my buddies tell me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
:laugh: no I mean my badness is expressed through that fanatical unwillingness to just run good cards. I'll have success with quality builds, but then I'll see Waste Not and slam dunk it into my build.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
:laugh:
Btw, Tom Ross ran Waste Not in his Modern sideboard. Maybe, just maybe, it can work in Modern. If not then he is a bad player too. (After all he does not run top, right?:wink:)
The Boss Ross is quite a monster with a notorious habit for hitting top 8s with decks that seem 'ok' for whatever reasons. I like his descriptions and such from that video I posted as well. He ran neither Engineered Plagues or Ensnaring Bridge in his sideboard so maybe he's onto something.
As for Phyrexian Totem, the ancient school of Pox thread had 3 threats that were considered staples of old Pox. Nether Spirit, Chimeric Idol (my personal fave of the old), and Phyrexian Totem.
The totem is fine vs. enemies with empty hands. You probably just got greedy and well, G1 vs. a deck with any direct damage is usually rough unless it's RUG Thresh. In fact, RUG Thresh vs. Pox should be easy mode if you've read Reid Duke's articles from SCG and personally, I've got a Pox deck and a budgetized version of RUG Delver and when me and my friend pilot them, Pox wins over 70% of the time.
Why is this? RUG has no true card advantage at all. No Jace, no CounterBalance, no Ancestral Visions, nothing... Pox eats low resource decks like that for breakfast lunch and dinner. Pox's toughest matches are usually based on manipulative control decks that go long and have enough land to weather Pox's winter of denial.
One of the reasons I prefer the mana denial flavor of Pox is because due to Liliana and Hymn being auto-includes, stopping enemies from playing lands is just a method that works for me. Denying land to control decks is also vital to winning at all.
Yeah, mana denial is nice. Still, i am reconsidering Wasteland, again. Sinkhole would be better actually. Not hindering mana development and hitting basics also.
I MAY replace them with mishra's factory. It's an option but is it a good enough one?
Wasteland and Sinkhole are usually always together in a mono-B mana-denial build simply because of the LD saturation and Wastes don't hit basics. There are games where you smallpox and sinkhole so many basic lands that your foe's fetchlands can only target wasteland fodder. It's a great feeling. Wasteland also causes people to hold their non-basics if they're foolish and allows you to develop your board in any case. 1 generic mana is still mana for use in some spells.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Do not make the mistake of 'saving' wastelands in your hand. Mana doesn't use the stack so playing them just because you can will force your opponent to change their approach. Of course, this is better with a turn 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth. It can be a usable hand if you're opening grip is artifacts, Mishra's and wastelands. I find starting with 2 Swamps is the normal step and Wasting them turn 1-2 I've found to not work as well.
Yes, especially vs delver decks. Occasionally you can mana screw them but wasteland turn one and two are more like timewalks for them. Same with Rishadan port.
I bought my wastelands on advice from another magic player, but now they will sit in the ring binder for a while. Should i ever finish the control pox deck i will include them there.
Tentatively my deck development goes in this direction:
4 Bloodghast
4 nihilith
4 price of progress
2 tombstalker
4 shrieking affliction
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Pox
3 liliana of the veil
2 sensei's divining top
3 contagion
1 rakdos charm
13 Swamp
1 mountain
4 bloodstained mire
2 blood crypt
2 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
Is this just based on budget? Or are Shocks over Duals a conscious choice?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I'd suggest removing the Shrieking Afflictions for Lightning Bolts. Kill Planeswalkers that way. 18 threats is so high that the enchantments seem to be filler or something cause you should most certainly kill your opponent before their empty hand ever matters. Bolts feed tombstalker so I'd suggest Lightning Bolt in a deck based on big damage.
I was thinking about Blightning as well but 3 cmc for a card that doesn't rock the universe probably isn't good enough. I'm truly shocked you didn't just include Nyxathid. He's probably the most terrifying creature a Pox player can cast when an opponent has an empty hand and was just Poxed in the face.
Let me know how that SDT goes for you. :cool:
Does Blightning have a place in your deck? Also, rock those SDT. They are too good not to play.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Budget.Quote:
Originally Posted by PirateKing
I have no experience using Nyxathid.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
On paper he looks to have a variable strength conditional on how well your game goes. And he has no evasion. I may test him later. Not being GY dependent is an advantage, however.
Lightning bolt is too weak. Besides, i run red (Price of Progress) mainly to get a better game vs lands decks.
It is hard to defeat decks with several lines of attack. Affliction occasionally makes a nasty lock with bloodghast. PoP added to that gives me a third win con. One that also is an instant.
.
No, i already run six to eight 3cc spells. Besides it does too little. Hymn is better at discard, and PoP do more damage, and at instant speed to booth.Quote:
Originally Posted by TTX
I've been playing this list (or variation of) for about a year and a half now, but suddenly am not too sure about it. Any thought or recommendations?
Sorcery (25)
3x Hymn to Tourach
3x Innocent Blood
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Lingering Souls
1x Pox
4x Sinkhole
4x Smallpox
3x Thoughtseize
2x Vindicate
Planeswalker (4)
4x Liliana of the Veil
Land (25)
1x Bojuka Bog
3x Marsh Flats
4x Mishra's Factory
3x Scrubland
5x Swamp
3x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Wasteland
Instant (4)
4x Surgical Extraction or Dark Ritual (I swap between, I've been liking SE more recently.)
Artifact (2)
2x Crucible of Worlds
Sideboard (15)
1x Diabolic Edict
2x Disenchant
2x Engineered Plague
2x Massacre
2x Perish
2x Phyrexian Revoker
2x Spinning Darkness
2x Thorn of Amethyst
I've got a small room event next Saturday, and am willing to try a new brew. (I don't have access to E.Bridges.)
These are the 2 bw variants that I tend to run. I usually do ok in my LGS with them. Haven't brought them to too many large events, but at an SCG open I did have a positive win rate when I brought the regular BW build. Been running these on and off for about 3 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by Aquamaniac
Deck: pox b/w (61)
Lands 24
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Karakas
3 Marsh Flats
3 Mishra's Factory
1 Plains
3 Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
Creatures 5
2 Nether Spirit
3 Tombstalker
Spells 31
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Cursed Scroll
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Mox Diamond
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Toxic Deluge
2 Vindicate
Sideboard 15
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
1 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Engineered Plague
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Nether Void
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
3 Surgical Extraction
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Trinisphere
1 Vindicate
Deck: pox blade (60)
Lands 24
3 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Karakas
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
3 Scrubland
3 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
4 Wasteland
Creatures 2
2 Stoneforge Mystic
Spells 34
2 Bitterblossom
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Hymn to Tourach
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Lingering Souls
1 Nether Void
2 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
3 Swords to Plowshares
1 Trinisphere
2 Umezawa's Jitte
2 Vindicate
Sideboard 15
1 Circle of Protection: Red
2 Engineered Plague
2 Enlightened Tutor
2 Extirpate
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Moat
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Pithing Needle
2 Thoughtseize
2 Zealous Persecution
Just pointing out some things from mykatdied's lists, flagstones is an easy add which should help you out. The Legends enchantments Chains and Moat are also very crucial sideboard options but are not easy for everyone to have access to. I might also suggest a one-of Cabal Pit just to get more utility out of those Crucibles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquamaniac
I'd also take a look at you sideboard and see if you can be more efficient with card choices, I would think you could turn the 2 E plague, 2 massacre, and 2 perish, and replace them with 1 e plague, 1 night of souls betrayal, and 2 toxic deluge. That would free up 2 slots for the legends enchantments if you can get them or whatever else you need for a given matchup you want help with.
I don't mind surgical or dark ritual, they are both good but each changes your gameplan. Surgical means your primary gameplan is mana denial with early wasteland on a dual land and surgical you can just win some matches (RUG delver only plays Trops and Volcs so if you surgical both they have no mana), dark ritual is more about velocity, you are attacking their hand more with turn 1 Lily or turn 1 Inquisition-hymn. Just an idea to keep in mind.
Bolt is too... [seizures and bursts into tears... :eek:] How can the best damage to mana ratio spell in the game be too weak? If you're running Big Poxes, these things will do far more than PoP. PoP I suppose is your auto-include if your meta is full of non-basics but as 4 of I'd guess that through statistics, PoP is useless early game and fatal as a top deck to your opponent's health.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Actually, PoP has a problem. If you've got 7 Pox FX (oh wait, you do ^_^), that land sacrificing aspect of the Poxes are not synergistic with your win con. I love having more than 4 Smallpox FX through big Pox but using Price of Progress, you either wait till they reach critical mass and NOT Pox them, or Pox them early while discarding Price of Progress. Hence why I advocate Bolt. Ultimately, a mix of perhaps 3 Lightning Bolts and 1 Price of Progress could very well be the best of everything.
How does Shrieking Affliction make a lock with Bloodghast? You lost me at 'several lines of attack'. :eyebrow:
Yes, indeed it is not synergistic at first glance. However, after a pox or smallpox resolves new lands will be played for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Total damage is in theory greater when Pox → PoP than the order PoP
→ Pox.
As for bolt it has the disadvantage of being useful for killing creatures.
While that may be handy occasionally it would only weaken my game plan if i used it that way.
Basically i want to kill my opponent before he get the Marit Lage combo active.
Bloodghast + affliction/the rack is simply hard to defend against. If opponent try to handle one he will die to the other.
Sounds to me like Marit Lage and Lands is your most common opponent. I know that feeling, I have the same paranoia with Miracles to a degree.
I've never heard of being able to kill creatures as being a disadvantage.
Is you're maindeck designed to fight Lands as a strong game 1 or is your sideboard designed to cover it? I always fashion the main deck to deal with 'every scenario' possible to the best of my ability and then use the sideboard for those nightmare matchups where losing is too lopsided.
On a very high note, I may be getting Tabernacle of Pendrall Vale for my deck and coupled with Wasteland/Sinkhole, and the terror inducing Nether Void, my "Fortress of Solitude" Pox is just about complete... :b:
Nice! I have faith in Nether Void since i noticed the decks placing best in tourneys run two of those i main deck. Have fun :-D
Speaking of main deck my thinking is to construct it to be viable vs most decks: Contagion and big monsters vs Delver. Hymn, Pox and Liliana vs Miracle, and many others.
Bloodghasts are also a problem for many decks. However the defense, or threats, for some decks is too much niche to have a place in main deck. Or perhaps they turn the deck away too much from its aggressive plan. A typical example is Engineered Plague vs Goblins.
Of course, i could make a compromise and run one NoSB, but no. We have only one Gobbo player after all.
Nether void is tremendously powerful, but I don't think I condone 2 main unless you expect a VERY large amount of combo. I get to play the classic in the morning, and am registering
2 bayou
1 cabal pit
1 forest
1 marsh flats
4 Mishra's factory
4 swamp
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 verdant catacomb
4 wasteland
1 nether spirit
4 abrupt decay
1 chains of Mephistopheles
2 crucible of worlds
2 cursed scroll
3 dark ritual
1 grim tutor
4 hymn to tourach
4 liliana of the veil
2 mox diamond
1 murderous cut
1 nether void
1 night of souls betrayal
1 pox
4 smallpox
4 thoughtseize
Sb
2 black sun's zenith
3 chalice of the void
2 ensnaring bridge
3 pithing needle
4 surgical extraction
How has running the 3 ritual and 2 diamond been for you? I never really consider running both but it seems interesting. Greedy from my point of view to have 5 cards which are not great top decks later in the game, but awesome early game. Turn 1 Nether Void vs combo seems like it would be good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
I notice yesterday that Eldrazi lists run no basics and should be another good target for PoP. I hope i recieve those i ordered before the tourney tomorrow.
I love the new Eldrazi decks. Wasteland Sinkhole spamming has never been so much fun! :cool: The only problem I guess is if they draw the tits and you draw no disruption for the opening grip, the match up is that good in our favor. Even more so for the LD focused like myself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
The 3-2 split is surprisingly effective, but I think ima jump over to a 4 diamond list for a bit. I lost two matches to drawing terribly (turn 2 nether void an aluren deck only to have them hit 6 of their 20 before I find a third land so I never actually get to cast another spell? Ok) one to a misplay (lands) and one to mis-boarding.
It is interesting. I know edelman was running 3 ritual for a while and no diamond. In my splash builds I tend to run 3 diamonds for the ramp and color fixing. In my mono black builds I stick with ritual all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
Poxtress of Solitude - ver. Alpha
Lands (25)
12 Snow-Covered Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
4 Mishra's Factory
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale
Creatures (1)
1 Nether Spirit
Spells (30)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Sinkhole
4 Innocent Blood
4 Smallpox
1 Pox
2 Funeral Charm
1 Dark Ritual
1 Contagion
1 The Rack
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Underworld Dreams
1 Syphon Life
1 Nether Void
Planeswalkers (4)
4 Liliana of the Veil
Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Powder Keg
2 Spinning Darkness
1 Massacre
1 Dread of Night
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Shrieking Affliction
1 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Leyline of the Void
Inspired originally by Reid Duke's original 3rd place tournament Pox deck and then updated/modified with ideas from Tom "The Boss" Ross's video I posted earlier, this is an amalgamation of well, crazy weird shit. My combat rival and test subject, Miracles UW says this is not only my weirdest flavor of Pox that he's ever faced, but probably one of the scarier ones. I don't have The Tabernacle yet but I will soon... :cool:
No time to type up stuff yet as I'm in the middle of some work but I'll explain the wackiness later when I get the time to. For now, this Alpha version Fortress of Solitude control deck is a placeholder.
new pox player here (played 8rack for a while). Starting to get into the legacy scene and there is a large local tournament next week (80 pre reg players).
Current list (flakmonkey sent me this list)
Sorcery (20)
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Innocent Blood
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Raven's Crime
4x Smallpox
3x Thoughtseize
Instant (1)
1x Contagion
Planeswalker (4)
4x Liliana of the Veil
Land (24)
4x Mishra's Factory
12x Swamp
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Wasteland
Artifact (5)
1x Cursed Scroll
4x The Rack
Enchantment (2)
2x Shrieking Affliction
Creature (4)
4x Bloodghast
Sideboard (15)
2x Contagion
2x Darkblast
2x Duress
3x Leyline of the Void
2x Ratchet Bomb
1x Raven's Crime
3x Spinning Darkness
Ive read a few pages of the forums (not the full 13x) im looking for some sideboard help and some match up tips, ive only played 15ish competitive legacy matches and that was with a chalice deck. What decks can i expect to struggle against (besides lands), which are fair and which are great? I know ive picked a rough deck to pick up and play with out knowing the format but, have to start some where right?
Loam decks for sure. I would remove duress and raven's crime and increase the graveyard hate.
Contagion and Darkblast is best replaced by engineered plague, or ensnaring bridge.
I have had problems playing Tombstalker lately. I rarely have enough cards in the graveyard and he ends up being discarded to contagion or pox. I am thinking of maybe rat pack and mishra's as replacement. But it is not ideal as i tend to nuke my own lands a lot...
If you are playing Pack Rat, Mutavault may be better than Mishra's Factory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Tnx, i forgot about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Tomby is usually played as a 2-of because you disrupt like mad, then you drop him mid-late game when everyone's top decking and resources are slim. If you're running 4, Dark Rituals help a lot but that's probably the issue you're running into since Tomby can't logically be played early game and really shouldn't be.
There once was a goofy play off a turn 1 where one goes fetchland, swamp, double dark ritual, Tombstalker lolz but that's just wack. :eek:
Mutavault can be combined with Pack Rat and Mishra's for 12 threats that synergize through the Mutavault. Problem is weakness to Wasteland, Price of Progress, and other things.
Another option is running Tomby in the sideboard. Or get Assembly-Worker as a laughably bad backup for Mishra's Factory. :tongue:
Y'all are talking very threat-heavy. how do you have enough disruption to not die?
Hardcore has a very threat heavy build. I'd say it uses smallpox as more of a tempo play than a more traditional control build. You only need to disrupt you opponent long enough to not die, so if you are going to kill them slow with something like curse scroll or Mishra's factory then you need a lot of disruption to last that long, if you are killing them quick with bloodghast, Mishra factory, and tombstalker all at the same time then you don't need as much disruption. There are lists posted earlier from Hardcore that you can check out. Im sure he'd be happy to elaborate for you (and correct me if my statements are wrong).Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
Well, given that i actually play four pox i think i have plenty of disruption.
Threat update. 10 threats
4 Mishra's Factory, 1 Nether Spirit. The Heavy Infantry, NS is the bodyguard for Liliana who can never go down lolz
2 Cursed Scroll, 2 Underworld Dreams, 1 Syphon Life. The Artillery. 2 of them snipe annoyances or with 6 lands out, nuke a Jace along with Underworld Dreams punishing him for free Brainstorms. Syphon Life 'fixes' top decking useless lands and turns them into 4 life point swings. The Artillery are also somewhat resistant to Counterbalance [cept for the Cursed Scrolls]
I still feel 8-10 seem to be just right for my land destruction control play style. Though traditional land killer should normally be more Aggro Control along the vein of Threshold, where you play a cheap threat, or suspend it, then nuke every land they could play. Now that combo is no longer that big on the meta being held in check by the huge slew of decks with counter spells, perhaps pure LD w/rush down would work, and I have just the cheap threats that could work with it.
So I have been trying to come up with a list that uses 4 Chains of Mephistopheles as a central theme. I also like the interaction with Anvil of Bogardan. I tried a more traditional mono black pox list with Chains, Anvil, dark ritual, mox diamond, and Squee, Goblin Nabob to get the chain lock early. The problem I had was I would die to the 1 or 2 drops that made it to the board and since no one draws cards I'd die before finding a Squee.
I am now looking at a GB list that is more similar to Lands than Pox since the interaction between dredge of Life from the Loam and Chains is awesome(since dredge is a replacement effect Chains doesn't trigger!) I also am a fan of being able to run Urborg in lands rather than punishing fire. I've tried keeping Smallpox in but there is just not enough room and it is the first cut if I want to keep the Lands/Chains themes. I think my sideboard plan would be to side in more creature hate and take out the Chains package.
Here is what I got:
4 Chains of Mephistopheles
3 Anvil of Bogardan
2 Bloodghast
2 Raven's Crime
4 Mox Diamond
4 Exploration
3 Life from the Loam
3 Crop Rotation
2 Entomb
4 Dark Depths
4 Thespian's Stage
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Maze of Ith
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
1 Bojuka Bog
4 Verdant Catacomb
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Bayou
1 Forest
4 Wasteland
1 Cabal Pit
Possible Sideboard:
4 Smallpox
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Cabal Therapy
3 Thoughtseize
1 Crop Rotation
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Innocent Blood