Where we can find your decklist? I searched it no web but couldn't be able to found it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatLust
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Where we can find your decklist? I searched it no web but couldn't be able to found it.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatLust
Have you consider use faerie macabre over leyline? The chances of a single leyline be in your open-hand are extremely low.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mammonth
I think you're thinking of the Legacy Classic. They don't post Challenge decks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago
Anyway, here's the list.
Creatures: 11
4 Nimble Mongoose
4 Delver of Secrets
2 True-Name Nemesis
1 Tarmogoyf
Instants + Sorceries: 31
4 Brainstorm
4 Daze
4 Force of Will
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
3 Stifle
2 Gitaxian Probe
4 Ponder
1 Fire // Ice
1 Spell Snare
1 Forked Bolt
1 Dismember
Lands: 18
2 Flooded Strand
3 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
4 Wasteland
Sideboard: 15
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Abrade
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Flusterstorm
1 Price of Progress
2 Pyroblast
1 Hydroblast
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Ground Seal
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Dead / Gone
1 Rough / Tumble
1 Standstill
That standstill is awesome. I like your MD too. I like 7 "bolts" and 2 probes.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoatLust
Thanks! Standstill is a great card on the play after landing a threat. Kinda a pet card, too. I've tried 2 before but that felt clunky.Quote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo
The Git Probe split felt correct. I used to run 4, but nixed 2 for 1 Spell Snare and 1 Fire / Ice. I would often board them out once I knew what I was playing against.
Hydroblast is a hedge against how much Moon based decks I've been running into lately. But didn't see any this weekend.
7 kill spells is def the way to go, and in the current meta I wouldn't go with less than 6.
Hi Folks,
Kept meaning to finish my GP Madrid report and couldn't find time! GP Madrid was a team GP and it's a little far off now but here are the high level points:
- We missed cash on breakers (28th place, 9-5 finish, team tourneys are 14 rounds) and overall I had a decent tournament, wailing on pile players and had a good run against Grixis decks. Losses came to Lands, BUG Delver, 2/4 Grixis Delver opps and 1/4 Pile opps (yep, that's 8/14 matches vs. Pile or Grixis.) Other wins were vs. Jeskai Blade, Burn, SnS and ANT. Did not finish my camera match (here for all matches, here for legacy G2 only) vs. Grixis Pyro (because my team mates are studs) where we were 1-1 going into G3 (beware, terrible legacy commentary ahead.)
- I went with a Goyf build after testing both Apes and Goyfs for months. I decided that folks were going down on push and that Goyf would be a good choice for the weekend. (I also thought I'd play against more Burn and Eldrazi with this being a team tournament - this was incorrect.) This did pay off though, I beat up a bunch of pile players favouring bolts for the weekend. Going forward I'm back on the Apes, it's just so much better than Goyf when you do meet a push deck (especially BUG Delver that also has Decays!), better against combo, burn/eldrazi just aren't prevalent enough and they're very similar in many other matchups (big green idiot, bad against plow, etc.) I might consider a single SB Goyf if your meta calls for it.
- I played 2 Winter Orb in the side as I expected more Miracles and wanted a tool vs. Lands - I suspected that a deep run would require beating up some lands players, again this was a team tournament assumption. Played Lands only once, lost a in tight G3 without seeing Orb, shrug. I'm off it and back on to Loam/Ring last few weeks.
- Spell Snare was a superstar, no surprises there. Don't play less than 2 in my opinion.
- Nikolas Labahn (good Euro Legacy player) was the Pile player that beat me, I found out after the game that he was on a build with a ton of bolts and no pushes. Felt vindicated in my choices but sideboarding was a bit of a guessing game where I brought all my Goyfs back in G3 when I was sure after losing G2 to some hot bolt, bolt/snap/bolt action after fighting over something the previous turn and taking 8 from my Library earlier in the game. Great games. Rest of his team was the Goertzen brothers and they made decent cash finish.
- At X-2 going into Day 2 we played against Dominguez/Calcano/Mengucci. Dominguez was my opp on BUG Delver and this is where my build was miserable. Goyf is so incredible bad in this matchup, dying to push, decay and very daze-able. We had a good 3 game match but he came out on top. We won the Jund mirror in the middle. Standard was interesting (sorry, boring Standard incoming, tune out if you don't care) we were were on Mono Red vs. UB and we put them in a position where they had to draw Hazoret removal that very turn or lose to Hazoret activations when we untap (board was stable with a Scarab God and a Gearhulk.) They almost decided to reanimate something (not sure why) but Mengucci argued to draw with mana avail to cast whatever is there and they drew Coup! Outs were only Coup and Contempt as nothing in yard for hulks to flashback. Great matches and they unfortunately missed on top 4, coming 5th.
- Single SB Counterspell was good. Great in the grindy matchups when you need to hit stuff blasts can't and great in the combo matchups. It showed up vs. SnS and ANT at some very key moments for me to take games and subsequently matches.
This is my list going forward and I'm testing hard for GP Birmingham. It's basically Sean Brown's (ChemicalBurns) so shoutout to him with only 1 main deck Predict, 1 TNN taking its place and 1 Staticaster in side with the room created by that 2nd TNN. A good chunk of SB slots are up for debate but I'm pretty locked in on the main deck, single Predict has been stellar.
I have also created a RUG Discord channel! I just created this today so it's a little tumbleweedy but feel free to join and we can get some discussion drummed up in there and share lists, data and results.
Cheers folks.
Wow, asian / eurpoean meta must really be a lot different from the american meta for this many RUG players to have problems with push...
But btw, hooting mandrills doesn't fill the role of "big green idiot". You gain some % points against pile, but as you noted I believe eldrazi is not winnable without goyf, and burn suffers too. Overall I think having goyfs in your deck makes your deck more well rounded, but don't want to rehash the goyf vs mandrills debate
Bummer that you didn't see your winter orbs, I would encourage you not to give up on those yet!
I feel you on Mandrills, "big green idiot" was probably the wrong term but I just meant that there's common drawbacks and boons between the cards compared to your other threats (good vs. bolt, bad vs. plow, etc.)Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
What's your most recent list look like rlesko? I've not entirely given up on the Goyf/Orb build and I like to have a good version in my pocket if I want to use it. I played this at Madrid.
Further questions... How do you find the BUG Delver matchup as a Goyf player? What decks are you siding in Orb against? Just want to see if there's any unexpected positive matchups for it there.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
Gotcha...yea fair enough. Both are bad vs plow agreed. But goyf doesn't nuke your GY and shrink your geese at least :)
I bring in winter orb against miracles, lands, stoneblade decks, stompy decks, and aether vial decks. I've been experimenting with it vs sneak & show but don't have conclusive testing on that. Obviously if you bring it in against vial decks, you must make a priority to destroy / force their vials. The part I like the most about Orb is that, I feel like I can execute the RUG mana denial plan + soft countermage vs any deck. When stifle is bad and / or my opponent plays an excess of basics I want an opportunity to tax their mana still. And it converts the "worst" late game top deck (Daze) into one of the best cards you can draw. This has a cascade effect of freeing up sideboard slots.
Last I played a bug delver deck he was playing like 3 abrupt decay and 2 push. I find it pretty easy to screw with their colors via stifle / wasteland. Playing snares is hugely important here as we have a much harder problem with resolved goyfs than they do. They are kind of a weak midrange deck so its possible to get "under" them.
My latest list is very similar to the one you posted. I play preordain instead of Sylvan Library main, and tarfire over seal of fire. In the sideboard, the only difference is I play 2 Ancient Grudge instead of Abrade split, and a Seal of Fire instead of the Flusterstorm.
Sorry, I’m probably missing something obvious here, but the list linked to at MTGGoldfish doesn’t align with the changes you mention. What list are your referring to?Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
Quote:
Originally Posted by now
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzan
Thanks! I was looking in all the wrong places.
I also get this wow effect when watching american tournaments on stream: all those grixis delver. In europe it's more pile and pushes. I love some w orb too, that's the very reason to go Canadian IMO.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
For sure!Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
Yep, this is what I was doing, made the DnT matchup much more palatable. JonLX used to side in Orb vs. Sneak and Show and I think it's worth exploring as it gives them a hard time rebuilding after we've won a fight. All your other points around Orb are great and a big reason why I brought them to the tournament. There's just so much Pile here and it's not useful in the Delver mirrors, I ended up siding them in in only 2 matches out of 14.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
Yep, Snare is great against them. Screwing colours can be so tough on the draw and I feel it's more devastating when we can't do that compared to vs. Grixis. This play pattern is horrible: T1 they play Shaman, T1 you kill it (even though you have Snare in hand), T2 they hymn you.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
I know what you mean about going under though, need to play the matchup more if I'm honest and I plan on testing it a lot more before Birmingham with and without Goyfs.
What do you find attractive about Tarfire? Instant speed is great but I found the ability to play Seal on the play before they have Daze access invaluable. (Obviously the DRS not being able to eat it point is valid too but this is known.) I feel I would rather have 2 Seals in the 75 before a Tarfire but I'm probably missing something.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
Thanks to everyone who has joined the Discord so far! Nice and lively in there already with some good discussions.
If anybody else would like to join, fire in.
Cheers folks.
Why do we need a second place to discuss what we’re already discussing here?Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Danzan
The problem I found with Winter Orb vs sneak and Show is that normally the game is won or lost after the big fight. Typically all resources are expended and both players are basically hellbent (except Sneak player probably has a griselbrand in his hand). Winter Orb only lines up against those draws of theirs where they have a bunch of enables and a lack of countermagic. In my limited testing I often died with Winter Orb in hand, never having the opportunity to deploy it profitably.
To your comment about Snare, I actually think it may be correct to let shaman live for a turn and leave spell snare up. Obviously it depends on a number of factors - did you play a fetch or a dual? (e.g. are you insulated vs a wasteland or not), do you have soft countermagic or hard countermagic (bolt + daze vs bolt + snare)? Deathrite is kill on sight but it is not uncommon to play "control" the first few turns (let them play our their spells and counter kill all of them, then deploy 2 creatures in the same turn taking all the tempo back)
And against an unknown opponent I prefer instant speed burn spells. If I'm against an unknown opponent I would not necessarily lead with seal of fire -> pass. It gives them a lot of information and you are still blind. If you are playing a combo deck they no longer have to respect spell pierce / snare, if you're playing a creature deck they can choose what their worst one drop is. I would save it with the intention of brainstorming it back later, bluffing more spells, and hiding more information.
I see what you mean with regards to the play patterns, obviously it depends if you have a threat or not but you're making mulligan decisions with that in mind. We probably have better tools in the 75 here.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
Yep, hand is very dictating here. I guess I just fear them playing a 3 mana creature if I don't have Daze but I'm not losing that mana if I can still kill the shaman but still behind on tempo. But you're right, very dependant on hand and many other factors. I think I was just remembering a particularly bad game where I had to make this play.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
This makes a lot of sense. I was thinking more about playing it out T1 postboard but being in the dark, on the play in G1 is a big one. Can still grow Goyf to 5/6 vs. Eldrazi and the like that don't play DRS. I'll test it, as I said I'm keen to give Goyf another shot before Birmingham.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
I'm absolutely not saying we stop discussing things here. As you can see I'm still posting :)Quote:
Originally Posted by now
Some folks prefer a different format and/or are long time readers that don't necessarily want to post but would be happy using chat. Plus there's channels for more casual talk, etc. which don't really work through this medium. Phone app does make things very easy as well and using it while commuting, etc. is great.
Essentially I'm not trying to replace this thread at all, I want to build on it if anything and expand the RUG family! It might not be for everyone but that's absolutely fine.
Thought this card was interesting: https://media.wizards.com/2018/dom/en_47k2GBWc6i.png
Destroy chalice -> wasteland you
Destroy aether vial -> play a delver / goose
I do like the following setup:
4 delver
4 tarmo
2 mandrils
1 clique
2 snare / 1 pierce split
1 become immense as a dreadful weapon
1 dismember / 1 fire-ice / 1 forked bolt
Become immense has been a killer so far.
BI is pretty spicy, Ralf.
How do you beat Sword to Plowshare decks with that creature configuration?
STP is at a low level so is CB.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
You are playing 11 creatures vs 4 stp 4 terminus 3 snapcaster 2 CB.
You have access to 4 stifle that will mainly target terminus triggers and snap triggers.
From testing I dropped only a few % vs miracle instead of playing goose.
Anyway I started from there (and miracle was at his peak)
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12671&d=273417&f=LE
Hi guys, I will link to you the invitation that does not expire for the specific Discord server of Canadian Threshold (RUG Delver).
All the tips to improve the channel are welcome.
https://discord.gg/VYWW2ND
Hey Guys, i need your help
I will test Sean Browns Canadian-List and i dont know how to board against Grixis Delver? Do you board out Delver in this MU too? i would like to bring in Dismember, Pyroblasts and Flusterstorms, Barbarian Ring, maybe abrade to kill their creatures? I hope you can help me :) Whats your overall plan in this MU?
I will generally full shroud them, boarding out Delvers, making their Bolts useless. You need to kill everything/counter everything on site (go hard control), however, and either kill them with a shrouded threat or an unsurmountable card advantage engine (eg. Ring/Loam). Abrade is a bit too mana intensive to warrant bringing in for this match.Quote:
Originally Posted by blablub
How I SB for it:
-4 Delver of Secrets
-2 Stifle
-2 Predict
+3 Pyroblast
+1 Life from the Loam
+1 Barbarian Ring
+2 True-Name Nemesis
+1 Counterspell/Flusterstorm/even keep a Predict or Stifle
Some people really dislike Snare since it has only a few targets, but I think with Marsh Casualties and Diabolic Edict so common in sideboards I would recommend bringing it to defend your singular threats. YMMV with Stifle, it can be excellent on the play but usually if you kill their DRS they remain mana-tight anyway and Daze/Pierce should still be live most of the game without it.
Crazy people. Nothing better than snaring a pyromancer while your grixis opponent has 1-2 open mana. They always reread spell snare, pause for a moment, and give you the "uh..ok" while they begrudgingly move their creature to the GY.Quote:
Originally Posted by ChemicalBurns
3 pyros + 2 edicts (minimum), maybe Marsh Casualties, maybe something weird like Jitte...
Don't board out your snares, people!
Thanks a lot Sean :) i'm really excited to slam some Mongoose again. Also im really interested in the Predicts. its a fresh idea. Do you think Grixis is in our Favour? its the most played Deck in my meta so i'm a little scared
It think it's quite close. Honestly, I feel like it depends on the number of early threats they have. A DRS-dense hand means you need to have removal after removal or else be buried in their mana acceleration. Their normal hands are very beatable though - kill DRS, ruin their shitty mana base, play a threat they cannot deal with and make sure Angler or TNN don't stick. We have a big edge in that none of our threats can be killed post-board, are better at mana denial (when DRS is dead) and all of their threats bar True-Name and Angler are very soft (and Angler dies to Dismember if you're running it). We also have better post-board CA engines (Library, Loam, Predict, while they only have stuff like Lili, Last Hope which are pretty meh), but if they overwhelm us with threats in the early game we can struggle to find enough removal and fall very behind. As always in Delver pseudo-mirrors too, play/draw is very important.Quote:
Originally Posted by blablub
Wise words ;DQuote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
I think Grixis has the better matchup G1 (especially if you aren't playing Tarmogoyf) and RUG has the better matchup after sideboarding
Went 6-1-1 (drew the finals) with RUG Delver at a local Legacy tournament this weekend. This was my list:
4x Delver of Secrets
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Nimble Mongoose
1x True-Name Nemesis
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
4x Force of Will
4x Stifle
4x Daze
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Spell Pierce
1x Dismember
1x Seal of Fire
1x Tarfire
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Scalding Tarn
3x Volcanic Island
3x Tropical Island
4x Wasteland
----------------------
3x Pyroblast
2x Ancient Grudge
1x Abrade
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x True-Name Nemesis
1x Rough//Tumble
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Price of Progress
1x Grim Lavamancer
1x Faerie Macbre
1x Flusterstorm
1x Izzet Staticaster
Rd 1: Lost 0-2 to Dragon Stompy. Got absolutely smashed by an early Trinisphere and Blood Moon both games.
Rd 2: Won 2-1 vs Burn. I had a fast start with counter back up in games where I was on the play.
Rd 3: Won 2-1 vs Miracles. Fast, aggressive starts games 2 and 3 along with blind Counterbalance flips that went in my favour.
Rd 4: Won 2-1 vs Storm. Opponent didn't realise how Stifle interacts with the storm trigger game 1. Game 2 opponent Duress'd and goes off. Game 3 I Stifled his fetch and destroyed his Underground Sea.
Rd 5: Won 2-1 vs Sneak and Show. Stifled the Annihilator trigger from Emrakul, took 15 damage down to 2 life, and then cracked back for lethal. Game 3 had multiple counters and pressure from Tarmogoyf.
Finished the swiss in 3rd
Top 8: Won 2-0 vs Dragon Stompy. Got my revenge for my round 1 loss. Had plenty of counters for Blood Moon and Chalice.
Top 4: Won 2-1 vs Steel Stompy. Had removal for the early Ravager and counters for the tax artifacts in Games 1 and 3.
Finals: Split vs Sneak and Show
I think I'll run back the deck in a couple of weeks at the next Legacy tournament here. Some things I would change would be cutting an Ancient Grudge for a Destructive Revelry or something else that can also hit Enchantments. Otherwise, I really liked the 75. I'll keep running Tarfire and Seal of Fire to help grow Tarmogoyf in case I run into a Gurmag Angler deck.
Haven't touched this deck in aeons, but, is it good in present-day open meta (think MTGO)? Or merely fun to play?
I like your straight forward list. No value cards to pollute your tempo plan. [emoji106][emoji2]Quote:
Originally Posted by ethanet
Did 13 creatures feel like too many? Did 7 removal feel like too many? Did you miss the two Snare?
I started playing Can Thresh a couple months ago and have been doing pretty well in local weeklies and 1ks. Czech pile, Grixis Delver, and lands all see winnable. Miracles has been a problem for me but I’m sure that can be fixed in the sideboard. I’m not playing any truenames.
I don't think it has ever been good for Magic Online Leagues because the meta is just too diverse, but it's generally a pretty good deck for swiss tournaments if you know what the winning metagame looks like.Quote:
Originally Posted by jmlima
Tks Jonathan. Coming from you that pretty much kills it... :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan Alexander
Hello Guys !
I'm new here in this Thread and i would like to Post my List of Canadian, i've been playing it for about half a year so not that long to be honest and i need much more Practice with it for sure.
So here is my List, i'd like to get some review from you :)
Creatures
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Nimble Mongoose
3 Tarmogoyf
1 True-Name Nemsis
Spells
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Force of Will
4 Stifle
4 Daze
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
1 Dismember
1 Tarfire
1 Abrade
Enchantments
1 Seal of Fire
Lands
3 Tropical Island
3 Volcanic Island
2 Scalding Tarn
2 Misty Rainforest
2 Flooded Strand
2 Polluted Delta
4 Wasteland
Tell me what you think, Thanks :)
Please give us a sideboard too! Looks good so far, though I am dubious about the main deck Abrade (non-one cmc removal that doesn't go to the face I am wary of). Seems like you have way too much removal in the main deck, 7 is generally the upper-limit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Siegmar
Canadian should also consider the new "grixis tech" in wild slash.
It's instant so it better fits the tempo and hold up mana plan than ie forked and chain
It can go to the face unlikely abrade
With ferocious it can push damage through against
- glacial chasm
-rip + fiels
and can push damage through if you get blocked by creatures with protection, notably
- TNN
- creature protected my MoR
Definitely seems reasonable for the non-tarmogoyf versionsQuote:
Originally Posted by JackaBo