[Deck] UW(x) Landstill

I went undefeated in a 2x Beta Trop event yesterday. It was a small turnout, only 16 peaople showed but first was 2x Beta Trops and 2nd was 4x fbb Trops. It was only 4 rounds swiss with a cut to top 4 so it was pretty much 5 rounds of single elimination. I beat Eva Green, Merfolk and Zoo x3. I'm not gonna bother posting the list since The store should be putting up the top 4 lists at some point anyway. I will take a second to note that I ran 3x Preacher in my SB and while they require considerable more testing I was quite happy with them yesterday. Figured i'd take a second to say it is not a typo for when he gets the lists up.

Preacher :D
Congrats on the finish man, and you keep surprising with all these cool and techy sideboard choices! First it's Liliana Vess and now preacher :D

I haven't even thought of this card before, man what a cool idea.

Team Left Field- winning tournaments with cards that should never see sanctioned play.

Stuck it in my MWS sideboard at least :) Let's see what happens

@Konsultant, congratz with your finish, but how the hell can they afford such insane expensive prizes with a small turnout like that?

I did really bad for the Waco tourney, doing 0-3 (giving my Ichorid friend the win instead of playing out so he could go top 4).

I lost to Affinity and Imperial Painter. Imperial Painter games were very close, and he stole games via grinding despite having answers. Affinity was retarded as he drew the nuts in the 2 games he won while I drew little to no removal. Out of all the games, I saw StP 5 times and Wrath twice, EE once so I drew very little removal in those games. It was perhaps bad luck, but I did make some play mistakes but it wasn't those that costed the game.

Overall it was depressing but I still love the deck and how it played. I'm taking a break from UWb Landstill and will explore UWr for awhile now or just work on Legacy Welder.decs for fun :)

I was just angry I lost the affinity matchup when it is a matchup in our favor. It seems that I just didn't draw removals at all that tourney. It wasn't a good meta for Landstill anyway. Top 4 were: Aggro Loam, Ichorid, Stax, Dreadstill so I think Landstill wouldn't have fared in such a meta. There wasn't any aggro decks contrary to the belief that TX metagame is fairly aggro.

Quick note:

1. Affinity is not a favorable matchup. It's on scale with ugw thresh. If your opponent knows what he/she's doing, which is 1/10 people then you better have a clear cutt game plan and not a (Well I have 3 lands and some cool interactions) kind of hand. That will get you beat very quickly. Affinity requires you to dodge 3 critical points in the game:

- The big early game swing
- The cranial plating second push
- Desciple Finish

If you can do this more then likely you can stabilize to make it go better for yourself in the long run.

2. Lack of removal. If you can't win matchups based on knowing how to open with hands (im not pointin a finger at you crz) then you need to reconsider your opening hands and what your role is in each matchup.

In landstill knowing ones role in each matchup is the absolute most important thing. Anyone can send a goyf farming, but it takes an elite to know when to just suck the damage and when to sit back.

I would have said that much of the play mistake was greed to xfor1 Affinity. I never let Cranial Plating pass since I know that's the GG for the deck. I don't believe he got the Cranial plating except for one equipment on a 5/6 Ornithopter. One game he simply beat me with 2 Blinkmoth that had Ravager tokens. I already used an StP on his Master. Factories couldn't do much and EE does not kill manlands.

The 3rd game he won through chaining Thoughtcast, and that got him his double disciple. I usually think it's an easy matchup simply because Affinity runs dry fast, so a timed Wrath destroys the board. Obviously, you hold onto StP for Masters/post-ravager creature, and the great thing is that Path from the board become much better StPs. I never saw my Paths against Affinity. My opening hand was kept with Wrath and mass removal, and I justified it because I had disruption until turn 4, which we played out the games safely. It was usually post-wrath that he got insane thoughtcast draws or I was too greedy and wrathed too late (taking too much damage in one game, that was my mistake). Overally, I would say 30% was due to me being a bad player, 70% was just not drawing/digging the stuff I need. Basically, I just drew bunch of lands/Brainstorm/SDT and no business lol.

Actually, I´ve never lost to Affinity in a tournament. I´m like 10-0 against them but thats just because 99% of the people going to a tournament with the decks are people with few experience (don´t want to call them newbies :S).
But then again, I tested against a competitive list piloted by a friend of me with Winter Orbs Maindeck and he just crushed the shit out of me :S
But until I don´t stop winning the important games against them, it´s all right for me :laugh: .

So about Disk. I really haven't been liking it in testing. I love the 4cc and its interaction with elspeth (which I still kinda look at as a cute trick more than anything else, since by the time she hits 8 counters the game is mine 99 times out of 100 against everything), but it just seems like a slot which would be better served with something... else. Where have you guys found disk to shine? Maybe I'm just looking at it the wrong way.

Sorry to post a fairly standard decklist, but I hate the (player X's list -x, +x, -x, +x thing) Credit goes to Mossivo for like 70/75 of the list, all of the slots eventually proved themselves, which is part of why I'm hesitant to stop testing disk.

4 STP
3 EE
2 Wog
1 Humility

4 FOW
3 SS
3 CS

2 DoJ
2 Els
2 C. Wish

2 SDT
3 Brainstorm
3 Standstill
1 Jace
1 FoF (In place of SDT#3, I'm not sold on it yet)

3 Factory
2 wasteland
1 ruins
6 fetch
6 duals
3 plains
3 island

SB:
3 plague
2 P2E
3 Negate
2 Relic
1 Crucible
1 extirpate
1 pulse
1 FoF
1 E. Tutor

@Standstill: I rarely in testing wished I had a standstill in hand when I had a different draw piece (see: a couple pages back), but what I noticed was that in most situations that standstill was just more efficient. If I'm going to run them, I want the deck to back them up though, thus the wastelands. I know it should be 3/3 between factories and wastes probably with no ruins, but the 1-of has won me a retarded number of games. Long story short: I'd consider the standstill-less build in a meta teaming with merfolk, but then again, I'd probably just run goblins in that case and go X-0.

Disk is nice because it can be tutored for, recurred, and destroys man-lands and other annoying things. Coming into play tapped and an artifact makes it a horrible top deck in an emergency.
I'm not 100% sold on it since sometimes I'd rather have a Wrath but theres been other times where its saved me. As a one of, I guess its okay.

Standstill doesn't seem to be as powerful as it once was since more decks seem to be running man-lands these days, and it ends up backfiring. I thought of Ancestral Vision but in most cases I still don't think its as good as Standstill.

Standstill works with so many things in the typical Landstill build though. Manlands, Wasteland, Crucible, Elspeth, DoJ, the counters it draws to stop whatever broke it, etc. There are just so many cards that you can abuse with Standstill that it is probably the most asymmetrical card in your favor in the deck. That balances off very nicely against the situational inability to use it that you occasionally run up against in the control mirror and against high octane aggro.

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Originally Posted by ultimoman

Standstill doesn't seem to be as powerful as it once was since more decks seem to be running man-lands these days, and it ends up backfiring. I thought of Ancestral Vision but in most cases I still don't think its as good as Standstill.

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So when was the peak time for standstill? I really don't think that it was all that much better when 60% of the meta was gobos. Sure it has its downsides and its never quite the ancestral recall for 1U but I don't consider the current meta to be "bad" for standstill. Disclaimer: There are very, very, few merfolk where I've been playing.

Disclaimer: if you are having trouble running standstill against merfolk (I play 3 myself), run more wasteland. Your manlands fuck up their pussy mutavaults and you can use wastelands to just take them out, compared to a stupid dust bowl which dies to a single wasteland form the other side of the table.

How often do you feel comfortable when drawing Jace? I´ve cutted him because he was NEVER as good as Fact :( This actually makes me a little sad because I´d really love to play at least one Jace in the main...Sidenote:
I rarely face control!

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

Disclaimer: if you are having trouble running standstill against merfolk (I play 3 myself), run more wasteland. Your manlands fuck up their pussy mutavaults and you can use wastelands to just take them out, compared to a stupid dust bowl which dies to a single wasteland form the other side of the table.

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You confuse me.
How does your Wasteland not die to opposing Wastelands?
Also, Dustbowl has been quite good to me when facing opposing Standstills.dec,
Merfolk included.

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Originally Posted by klaus

How does your Wasteland not die to opposing Wastelands?

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If they do, that's okay, because Your manlands > their manlands in a vacuum. However, I've played against merfolk a bunch, and this is (I think) really only relevant if you're running maindeck vindicate or other Aether Vial destruction.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by klaus

You confuse me.
How does your Wasteland not die to opposing Wastelands?
Also, Dustbowl has been quite good to me when facing opposing Standstills.dec,
Merfolk included.

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What I meant is that a singleton wasteland finishes your dustbowl and after that you're stuck with your manlands, against their weaker manlands + more wastelands which is a great way to lose standstill wars :)

When I look at Geogg Smelski's Landstill lists they seem to be the most lategame oriented ones. Many cards that are considered to be very good in the current metagame and played 3 - 4 times, such as Spell Snare don't even find a place in his maindeck at all. He runs no Sensei's Divining Top and therefore most of his lists feature 3 of each, Wrath of God, Vindicate and Fact of Fiction.

Is this just another take on the deck or is the metagame in the USA really that much different to the European one? I tested those lists and despite their awesome success in America they actually failed hard against half of my testing gauntlet.

Aggro Loam, Goyf Sligh, and to some degree Merfolk and Nassif.dec (rather Dark Confidant with backup) proved to be quite difficult matchups for me.

The american meta is significantly differant then the european circuit do to card avalibility and lack of consistently good prize pay outs across the board. Geoff is also a different style of player then most here. Geoff likes to run natural redundancy, while I preferibrary manipulation. Its really all quite elementary my dear european.

To be quite honest, Geoff is a player that will very rarely make a play error and always seems to make the correct decision on the state of the game. His build, since it is so late game, requires the early game to be almost perfect but once he gets to turn 4 or 5 mana his deck can easily overpower any other deck on shear power more so than a more standard landstill build that most of us play.

Isn't that what landstill is about though? Playing better cards than your opponent but sacrificing (a bit of) the earlygame for it?

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

Isn't that what landstill is about though? Playing better cards than your opponent but sacrificing (a bit of) the earlygame for it?

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More so in Geoff's build since he runs more 4 drops.

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Originally Posted by Ectoplasm

Isn't that what landstill is about though? Playing better cards than your opponent but sacrificing (a bit of) the earlygame for it?

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Yes and no, mostly yes. Landstill still wins with creatures and as such at some point in the match needs to become the aggresive deck. Back in 2005 there was no deck with a better late game, except maybe Survival, and so the deck was highly focused on control because inevitability was on our side. This is no longer the case, in keeping pace with the quickening meta we have sacrificed part of our late game, primarily Akroma's Vengeance, in favor of running quicker more attrition based cards and try to then pair them with our overpowering card advantage engine. We still run Decree whitch gives us a late game bomb that typically is enough to overpower any deck in legacy paired with our control package but the creation of Plainswalkers is an earmark for Landstill. They allow us to spend a mere 4 mana, either Ajani or Elspeth, and with no further mana investment win the game. Just the other day I beat aggro loam with nothing but an island and an Elspeth in play. The key to winning with this deck is to contemplate all of your possible choices and make the appropriate descisions. For instance I had double Force of Will and was able to power out a turn 4 Elspeth against aggro loam having denied him every creature he tried to play and still leaving double FOW in hand. I then allowed Devestating Dreams to resolve because with the Force disruption I was able to out race him with Elspeth. Don't discredit the aggresive factor of this deck, you don't have to win on turn 25 every game with 7 cards in hand and your opponent with 0. Anybody that has watched me play I typically end my rounds in 20-30 minutes regardless of what i'm playing against, well except for the mirror in an untimed top 8 then I have been known to take my time.

I understand why alot of people consider my build to be slow but I went 5-0 at my last event against Zoo x3, Merfolk and Eva Green, whitch are pretty much the fastest decks in Legacy except Affinity and was able to go undefeated against them. Landstill favors experience and punish's play errors, my build is probably one of the most unforgiving builds out there but played correctly, and with correct sideboarding, the deck is very capable of beating anything. Merfolk requires flawless play to beat but after I played against the Merfolk guy in the top 4 he even looked at me and said there was absolutly no way he could have played differently and won.

What other planeswalkers besides elspeth and jace are good for running in landstill? Your thoughts on garruk, liliana, goldmane, and ajana vengeant

Read the thread. Youll find interesting lists with all different kinds of plainswalkers

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Originally Posted by konsultant

and with correct sideboarding

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I'll take the bait.

What are the correct cards to board out against Merfolk and perhaps more importantly why?

It depends on what they are playing. - would normally drop standstill jace and counterspell

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Originally Posted by Reagens

I'll take the bait.

What are the correct cards to board out against Merfolk and perhaps more importantly why?

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In my experience:

Force of Will and Standstill.
They don't have bombs, just threads you need to answer. Force is a bad answer because it generates card disadvantage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Muradin

In my experience:

Force of Will and Standstill.
They don't have bombs, just threads you need to answer. Force is a bad answer because it generates card disadvantage.

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Do you ever win against Merfolk with that SB strategy?

You really, really, really need to counter their Vial.

I board Standstill, Counterspell and Jace out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Elf_Ascetic

Do you ever win against Merfolk with that SB strategy?

You really, really, really need to counter their Vial.

I board Standstill, Counterspell and Jace out.

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He might be running vindicate and/or 3 EE's though :)
But I agree that boarding out FoW seems like a bad move, since winning a counterwar over say, elspeth or a wog, will become pretty hard.

I played at Die Hard Games yesterday in a 30 man Mox Tournament. I knew there was going to be atleast 6-7 people playing zoo before the tournament. I didn't realize that in addition to a lot of zoo their was going to be roughly 6 straight out burn decks at the same tournament. Fun times.

I finished 2-2-1. Nothing special.

// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
3 [ON] Flooded Strand
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
3 [B] Tundra
2 [B] Underground Sea
1 [B] Scrubland
2 [UNH] Island
2 [UNH] Plains
1 [UNH] Swamp
3 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (4)
3 [REW] Wasteland
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins

// Creatures
1 [PR] Eternal Dragon

// Spells
4 [AL] Force of Will
4 [FNM] Swords to Plowshares
3 [MM] Brainstorm
3 [JGC] Counterspell
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
3 [DIS] Spell Snare - Solid
3 [OD] Standstill
2 [JGC] Cunning Wish - MVP
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
2 [ALA] Elspeth Knight-Errant
2 [IN] Fact or Fiction
2 [JGC] Vindicate
2 [REW] Wrath of God
1 [TE] Humility
1 [B] Nevinyrral's Disk (should have dropped this another snare/wish)

// Sideboard
SB: 3 [FNM] Engineered Plague
SB: 3 [MOR] Negate - Proved its worth
SB: 2 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 2 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 Shining Shoal (not a typo)
SB: 1 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [CNF] Path to Exile
SB: 1 [FD] Vedalken Shackles

Round 1: Zoo 1-2
Game 1: He gets out quick with t1 nactyl which I answer with t1 ee @ 1 go and he turn 2s a hellspark which I stabilize with stp and snare on goyf. I get wish for pulse and fetch myself into all my basics fearing POP with no counters in hand and realize half way through game 1 that he isn't running POP and I color screwed myself not being able to cast pulse twice a turn. He basically casts 2x chain, 2x bolt, fireblast all in the same turn to kill me. Must be nice I guess.
Game 2: He doesn't board in grip so I ride humility to the win while grip multiple negates and shining shoal'ing a nacatyl's damage back at itself. LOL
Game 3: I keep a island, wasteland x2, path, stp, cunning wish, standstill hand while he mulls to 5. I think to myself, can I lose? O yes I can. He plays t1 kird ape and I waste his taiga. I go island go. He draws his 2nd land and casts nacatyl and passes I waste his land instead of playing standstill because I draw eternal dragon with an island in play. When it finally got to mattering I had island, tundra in hand at 3 life with him having only mountain in play. Fail!

Round 2: Burn 2-0
Game 1: I get pulse turn 3 and he can't do much but suspend rift bolts into my standstills. He tries to banefire me out at 8 life to which I pulse and swords a mishra's to gain some needed life. I win the next turn ripping vindicate/vindicate off a bs to kill his double ensnaring bridge.
Game 2: He draws almost no land but rebs my wish to which I say to myself, I knew that was going to happen. Next card is force, I chuckle to myself and start the beats with decree tokens at one point shining shoaling a fireblast back at him pitching decree. Fun times.

Round 3: Ichorid 2-0
Game 1: I cast a turn 4 bs protected humillity and keep him at bay with a mishra's for many many turns. I finally rip decree and wrath to which he has no answer.
Game 2: I see 5 of the 10 pieces of hate I boarded in. Double relic, plague, shackles, double stp and he kept a really slow hand.

Round 4: Janky Burn 0-2
Game 1: He plays main deck pyrostatic pillar... :eyebrow: ...and some other interesting cards. I get pulse and am at 14 life with brainstorm, wish, wrath, stp, snare, other. He has lavamancer + mauruader. I cast wrath with all my white mana feeling safe at 14 life. He shoots me with mauruaders and lavamancer and bolts me, fireblast me twice. 1 mana short of wishing for shoal and winning the game. Sad times being at 14 life and losing in a single turn because I cast wrath. Huge fail on my part.
Game 2: His look/playstyle just got to me game 1 and I couldn't keep it together g2. I mulled to 5 keeping a tundra, force, standstill, e dragon, island hand. He draws nothing but gas.
I had no chance in that game and kind of wanted to hit something at the end of that round because I knew before hand how many people would be playing some variant of red and didn't make the necessary changes. I deserved to not top 8 this tournament even though I fought through the hate extremely well on the day.

Shining Shoal was surprisingly fun to play. I miss it from ravnica/kamaigawa days std. Pulse did what it was supposed to do. I saw disk once. I cast elspeth once. I decreed like it was my job in many games. My round 5 opponent was my teammate so we decided to draw and go home. He was playing ichorid. I probably could have gotten their but o well. I had white thresh built before the tournament I could have fairly easily played that. I learned that you can basically play landstill in the most ichorid/burn/zoo infested meta and still get there.

Wow rockout. I just woke up after going to the Mox Tournament in Ann Arbor yesterday, also a really small report. Wore an Ohio State polo up there, got some awkward looks, which was the point. Surprised no one shot me.

I've never done the reports before, and with the pace of the games, it was hard to take notes as I went along. I went 2-3 overall, losing twice to Zoo and once to Loam, and beating Merfolk and CounterTop.

From watching matches, I counted as the meta:
~4 Landstills (including myself)
~3 CounterTop
~3 Aggro Loam
~3 Merfolk
2 Burn
2 Goblins
1 Affinity

I knew the Zoo matchup wasn't great, but I lost to Price of Progress (sometimes multiple) / Fireblast all day long. Changes I want to make are included at the end. I still don't have the funds to change of the mana base, and I ran one of mossivo's older lists. For reference:


// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)

// Lands
1 [B] Underground Sea
3 [GUR] Plains
3 [GUR] Island
2 [ON] Polluted Delta
1 [B] Scrubland
4 [R] Tundra
4 [ON] Flooded Strand
1 [MM] Dust Bowl
1 [TSP] Academy Ruins
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (2)
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (3)
1 [AQ] Mishra's Factory (1)

// Creatures
1 [LRW] Jace Beleren
2 [ALA] Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 [MOR] Vendilion Clique

// Spells
1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
3 [FD] Engineered Explosives
2 [R] Wrath of God
2 [SC] Decree of Justice
3 [CHK] Sensei's Divining Top
1 [TE] Humility
4 [4E] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AL] Force of Will
3 [OD] Standstill
3 [5E] Brainstorm
2 [JU] Cunning Wish
3 [DIS] Spell Snare
2 [ST] Counterspell
1 [AT] Nevinyrral's Disk

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [ALA] Relic of Progenitus
SB: 1 [ARE] Enlightened Tutor
SB: 1 [TSP] Return to Dust
SB: 1 [PLC] Extirpate
SB: 3 [MOR] Negate
SB: 3 [CFX] Path to Exile
SB: 3 [7E] Engineered Plague
SB: 1 [DS] Pulse of the Fields
SB: 1 [FD] Crucible of Worlds


With the one exception that before the tournament I took out a Tundra and added in an Island hoping to be less susceptible to nonbasic hate. Yeah :rolleyes:

Anyhow, just a few notes, nothing detailed. I need to at the very least start writing down hands. Again, my apologies for lack of experience.

Round 1) Zoo

g1) I win the roll (about the only thing I won this game) and I choose to play. I played a turn one Top and passed the turn. His turn one play was a single Forest, followed by a Nacatl. I dropped EE @1 the next turn. His next turn play was a Plateau, swing for 3. I StP the sucker, and we keep going on like this for a while, trading StP/EE/Spell Snares for Kird Apes, Nacatls, and Goyfs. I tapped out to play something on one of my turns, and he Lightning Bolts + Lightning Helixes me. At this point I haven't done anything to him, and the next turn he plays a Sylvan Library. I didn't draw an EE to deal with it, and he eventually starts paying life to dig with the life generated by Helix + multiple StP. When it was him 12, me 2, I'm struggling to dig for a Cunning Wish for Pulse to stabilize but it's a little too late. He goes Price of Progress (Force of Will) / Fireblast for the win.

SB: +3 PtE, +1 Relic, -1 Jace, -1 SDT, -2 Counterspell

g2) PtE's go in for the dudes, Relic comes in for Goyf. I choose to play after the loss, and he mulls to 5. I draw a hand full of removal, not noticing that instead of the an StP I have a Path to Exile in hand. We trade creatures/removal like last time, but I give him another basic, and he's matched me with land drops. His turn 4 he drops a Sulfuric Vortex, and me without a Force in my hand. I tried to dig for EE without luck, but I did get a Cunning Wish in my hand. He played another Vortex the next turn, but I EoT Wish --> R2D. I draw another Wish the subsequent turn, but by the time I play R2D in the main phase, I'm sitting at 6 (scribble?) life. The turn after, I wish for a Pulse, and with Pulse on the stack, he plays Price of Progress.

0-1


Round 2) Aggro Loam

g1) This game was horrid. I win the roll and keep a hand with 2 nonbasics. My first play is Tundra, SDT, go. His first turn was Mox, Wasteland for Tundra. I didn't draw a land the next turn, but I played a land, SDT'd and ended my turn. He wishes for Loam the very next turn. I spent the next few turns trying to dig for basics to stay alive, StP'ing a Bob in the process. He starts recurring Loam to Wasteland everything I play. My only answer was to either Spell Snare his Goyfs or StP his creatures. He swings with a Bob a few times before playing Worm Harvest (ugh). I couldn't find an EE.

SB: -2 Counterspell, +1 Crucible of Worlds, +1 Relic of Progenitus.

g2) I mull to 6 to find more basics, and I play with a Plains + Island in hand. My first turn play was Island, Relic, go. I steadily build up a mana base, fetching for Islands/Plains while being careful and holding back duals. I am able to StP his Bobs / Snare his Goyfs, which tapping Relic every turn to remove something from the graveyard. He also builds up his mana, and Grips a Relic at the end of my turn. I have here in my notes that I Forced "something" the next turn and he followed it up with a Chalice at 1, which I had no answer for. I have 2 WoG in hand, no Disk in sight. He goes Bob, Crusher, I go WoG. He goes Bob, Crusher, I WoG again. He draws another Crusher and I struggle a little, but the game is done.

0-2


Round 3) Merfolk (homebrew)

g1) I have no notes for this game, as funny as it is, because I actually lost my dice for the match and just kept life totals. All I know is, this guy didn't run Vials or Cursecatchers, making it an easy game. I deal with the big dudes, WoG with Force backup, and resolve Elspeth, token it up, and roll for the win.

SB: -1 Clique, -3 Standstill, -1 Relic, -1 EE (no Vials to worry about), +3 PtE, +3 EP

g2) I actually draw only 1 :w: source and 1 :u: source the whole game, while drawing Academy Ruins, Dust Bowl, and factories. Couldn't find a fetch to get a :b: source for EP, and didn't draw enough spot removal. Since I left the damn blue source out there, he was able to overrun me with a few Merfolk after I sent some farming/exiling. Ugh.

g3) Things go right. EP hits the table before he knows it, and another follows. His only play of this game was Echoing Truth the EP, but I just recast it the next turn with plenty of backup. Elspeth comes in the game to finish things, with me using a single flying 4/4 Soldier token.

1-2


Round 4) Zoo

g1) I choose to play, and my first turn is just a land drop. He fetches for a Forest, and I immediately think it's Zoo. Nacatl comes out to play. Yeah. I actually don't draw another :w: source for the rest of the game, and with a WoG and Humility in hand, I didn't fare well in this game before just being overrun and hit with a Fireblast.

SB: -1 Jace, -1 SDT, -2 Counterspell, +3 PtE, +1 Relic

g2) He mulls down to 5, and I'm on the play. I have PtE's in hand, but go with it anyways. The big difference from last game is that I actually get the second :w: source, and I resolve Elspeth and start spewing out tokens. I stabilize, trade StP/PtE/counters with his creatures, and am able to win with tokens, Factory and company.

g3) Same SB, he sides in :really:. I start the game with Tolaria West and a Tundra in hand, and I play the Tolaria West as my first land drop. I am able to trade removal with creatures, but some do slip through the cracks. I'm sitting at 10 when I get a Cunning Wish. While it's on the stack, with no other counters in hand but FoW, he plays double Price of Progress (countered one), and then Fireblasts for the win.

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Round 5) CounterTop

g1) I lose the roll and he mulls to 6. His first turn play is fetch, Trop, SDT, go. I'm predicting Counterbalance coming the next turn, but do have a Spell Snare in hand. I draw, land, go. He does play the CB the next turn, and I Snare it, meet his FoW, which meets mine. I play SDT the next turn, he draws and passes the turn. At his EoT I see a Humility, land, Elspeth. I move the land up, then Elspeth, Humility, draw + play, pass. He plays Bob the next turn, which I StP at his EoT without reponse. In the next 3 turns, I drop Elspeth, Disk, Humility (shutting down a Trygon), all which go through with him digging with top to find an answer. There was a mini-Elspeth token battle, but the moral of the story is, I resolved her ability with Disk in play.

SB: None.

g2) No notes for this one, but he resolves Top/CB. However, all my shit costs :4: and higher, and I am able to get a Humility and Disk out on the board. After several turns of drawing, Topping, watching one of his Goyfs die to my 2/2 Factory, he scoops and pulls 3 Krosan Grips out of his library.

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So yeah. That sums up the day. Obviously, I had a subpar performance, but that's why we play the game, to get better. I am cutting the singleton Vendilion Clique for a 4th Spell Snare MD, especially when I didn't get to use it for pretty much the entire tourney. I do have a Vindicate on the way and it may replace something MD. I need an all purpose slot if I can get it. In terms of being the 61st card, whatever it is, I'm thinking about cutting it to bring my buddy Eternal Dragon back.

The card that I missed the most yesterday was Humility, which I didn't get in any of the Zoo matchups. Would have been nice to do so. The biggest thing I want to redo is my mana base. I originally had T.West + Dust Bowl in there. I like Dust Bowl for slower matchups, but I think I'm heading in the direction of Wastelands.

As for the SB, Negate really didn't see play for the entire tourney. This may be the Zoo talking, but I would have really liked to have BEB's in there. Again, I realize I played in a limited meta today, so that may not be the truth.

wow rockout? What do you mean by that morbid?

I'm actually considering going back down to 60 cards and running the 4th brainstorm.

In terms of BEB vs Negate, negate is going to be your combo hate as well as your burn hate. Its tough to have multiple bebs in your board and still able to bring in enough combo hate.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockout

wow rockout? What do you mean by that morbid?

I'm actually considering going back down to 60 cards and running the 4th brainstorm.

In terms of BEB vs Negate, negate is going to be your combo hate as well as your burn hate. Its tough to have multiple bebs in your board and still able to bring in enough combo hate.

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Oh, sorry, didn't mean to come out that way. I got up at 10:30 or so, started typing the report while eating breakfast, and hit refresh. Boom, another report :wink: I apologize for that if it mislead.

And yeah, there was *one* combo deck yesterday as far as I could tell, and as far as I could tell, it wasn't going very far once you countered the critical (insert mana ritual here).

Ah, gotcha. Hopefully our next tournament we will fair better.

yeah running the 4th brainstorm is>than running say a spell snare. Spell snares good at hitting their 2 drops but it doesn't save you from inevitably getting overpowered. Running all 4 brainstorms in my opinion ensures that you hit your 4th land drop and by turn 4 get to start playing bombs to turn the game around. Getting hit by price of progress is really annoying and it seems like there's nothing we can do to stop burn/ red sligh from winning in 1 turn with 14 or so damage.

heres a question i've been thinking about: is it better to waste their lands early game and fall behind a turn on hitting 4 mana in exchange for slowing them down or keeping the waste to cast your board sweepers on turn 4

anyways, thanks for the reports rockout and morbid, they were very interesting to read

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rockout

I'm actually considering going back down to 60 cards and running the 4th brainstorm.

In terms of BEB vs Negate, negate is going to be your combo hate as well as your burn hate. Its tough to have multiple bebs in your board and still able to bring in enough combo hate.

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Don't know if my most recent list got posted yet or not but I ran 3x Negate and 3x Hydroblast in the SB. Still had my 2x Chant as well.

While being the one to popularize the 3x Brainstorm approach I did insist that it was focused on being relevent in that particular list only. I wouldn't reccomend that strategy for any 61 card deck and it really only worked in that build because it was so focused on attrition and had a ton of Counter Magic and Removal MD the deck didn't need the 4th Brainstorm. That build also played considerably less 4 drops as I only ran 1x Elspeth and it was in the SB.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by konsultant

Don't know if my most recent list got posted yet or not but I ran 3x Negate and 3x Hydroblast in the SB. Still had my 2x Chant as well.

While being the one to popularize the 3x Brainstorm approach I did insist that it was focused on being relevent in that particular list only. I wouldn't reccomend that strategy for any 61 card deck and it really only worked in that build because it was so focused on attrition and had a ton of Counter Magic and Removal MD the deck didn't need the 4th Brainstorm. That build also played considerably less 4 drops as I only ran 1x Elspeth and it was in the SB.

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I haven't been having any issues running three brainstorm with two SDT. I know you guys have been looking at SDT as fulfilling the same role as FOF, but in my experience SDT also substitutes (though not necessarily quite as efficently) for brainstorm. If I wasn't running SDT (like rockout's recent list) I'd definitely want the 4 brainstorms.

That being said, Geoff, would you mind posting your list? I'm especially interested to see your board and what you were expecting to play against with that much hate.

The 4th brainstorm is almost never relevant except in those mana light god hands. The list has been doing exactly what it's meant to do against and the field and that's just win and control the board. Other than getting burned out through pulse and a little bit of a unlucky streak I felt the list could have easily made the top 8 through the field I described.

FoF > Top.