Printable View
If you are able to fire off a Tezzeret ultimate, that usually means you just win the game right there so it doesn't matter if you sacrificed some of your artifacts to Ravager already. It's a non-issue. If Tezz's ultimate isn't enough to kill your opponent, you can just use the ultimate first and then use Ravager shenanigans to finish the job.Quote:
Originally Posted by ehotonic
*raises hand* I use Thopter Foundry! I 4x it with 4x SFM, and 4x Cranial (1x Sword of the Meek). It's unbelievable; it smashes most control MUs because they can't wrath instant-speed every turn. It also eats up extra Opals and lands. The card isn't super-powerful on its own, but it is very useful, and then becomes a game-breaker when you find SFM or Sword later on. I like it much much better than Baleful Strix.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
Yay, an Affinity list made a SCG top 16 this weekend at Baltimore and it's not actually shitty:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=58707
Creatures (26)
4 Etched Champion
4 Master of Etherium
3 Memnite
4 Ornithopter
4 Signal Pest
4 Vault Skirge
3 Stoneforge Mystic
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Lands (15)
2 Darksteel Citadel
4 Ancient Den
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Vault of Whispers
1 Ancient Tomb
Spells (16)
4 Cranial Plating
4 Springleaf Drum
4 Mox Opal
4 Thoughtcast
Sideboard
1 Batterskull
3 Chalice of the Void
1 Pithing Needle
3 Relic of Progenitus
2 Ethersworn Canonist
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Mindbreak Trap
The list could be a lot better, such as getting rid of the random 1-ofs - though they could be due to card availability - but overall, the list is pretty solid.
hello guys, hope you are doing well
did not post in this thread for an eternity cause i switched to other decks (mainly rock), but now i have the feeling i want to get my affinity back together as it was my first deck ever :P
i was wondering about a few things... i did read a lot in this thread lately, and basically you only see either straight UB-Tezzeret-Swarm lists, or Esper lists with SFM
aren't there any other reasonable spashes? red ok... galvanic blast maybe but it is not really needed, and i dislike it... are there maybe some good cards in the green-spash that could be of use in any of the matchups? sylvan library maybe, together with vault skirge it could be awesome, basically draw 3 each turn
another question i got is if there are some good manasinks for affinity, or maybe even some sort of combo-potential with maybe gaes cradle?
last question is: what sideboard cards are used for what matchup? a few cards are obvious, but what cards in the different spashes help the most in problematic matchups (and what are the most problematic matchups?)
thanks in advance
Affinity can splash Red to good effect, but it shouldn't be splashed just so you can use Galvanic Blast. I'm trying out a 4-color build of Affinity with red in it for Magus of the Moon. Magus of the Moon is pretty good so far, since it can disrupt your opponent's manabase but do minimal damage to yours.
Green is the worst color you can splash in Affinity. Glimpse of Nature is the best green card you can run, but it only just makes Affinity into a bad combo deck. Sylvan Library wouldn't be bad card to run in Affinity, but it doesn't seem worth it to splash green for it.
There are combo approaches you can explore with Affinity, such as Glimpse of Nature or Erayo, Soratami Ascendant, but similar to what I had said, playing combo in Affinity just makes it into a bad combo deck and a bad aggro deck. If Skullclamp were unbanned, then I can see Affinity going through a combo approach with Skullclamp, maybe even using Gaea's Cradle. But for now, I think you should just focus on being an aggro deck when playing Affinity.
The most problematic matchups for Affinity are combo decks like Storm or Show and Tell decks. Most of your SB should be devoted to beating combo. There are lots of options to choose from. Chalice of the Void is good against Storm, so is Ethersworn Canonist, and even Phyrexian Revoker. You want your anti-combo cards to have overlap and be useful against more than one combo deck. Canonist is good against Storm, but also good against OmniTell. Revoker is good against Sneak Attack, but it is also useful against Storm since it shuts off LED. And so on.
@Shawon: First, cool to see that Esper Affinity doing well! That was really close to the one I was playing before I wanted to switch it up a little.
@AggroSteve: As far as combo-potential goes, I recently saw some weird deck somewhere that splashes :r: and uses Metalworker to burn the opponent, but it seemed really janky and wholly contingent on having Metalworker; without it, the deck was sort of impotent. Personally, I've found that adding that third color in Affinity can be very occasionally problematic to ripping off your Cranial Plating swap during an attack; we don't have all the fetches and duals at our disposal, so it can be an issue even with Springleaf Drums and Moxes fixing for you. I ran the Esper Affinity pretty similar to the one Shawon just posted above with great success, but just was interested in changing things up a little bit (I think my latest permutation is posted somewhere above -- basically trades off SfM for some black disruption). Regarding your SB question, CHALICE OF THE VOID! If your meta runs a lot of RUG Delver (mine does), it just dominates since everything in their deck is basically 1cc (against Elves it's great, too, since it can delay them from going off by bouncing elves); and, hell, also just great against anything :u: for that matter: no Brainstorms/Ponders (bad news for Show and Tell; stops all of Reanimator's graveyard dump cards, Entombs and Careful Study, etc.). I only recently started playing with Chalice, but I find myself always SB'ing a playset. Otherwise, I just like spot-removal, hence why I run 4 in my SB, along with some graveyard hate and some other disruption. Storm is not very prevalent in my meta, so I'm not too concerned with that at the moment.
@frogger42: Would you mind posting your deck list when you get a chance? I'd be curious to see how you integrate Thopter Foundry.
1-0 at SCG Philly, 2-0'd Goblins. Updates to follow.
Edit: 2-0. Beat RUG Delver. Game 3 my opponent TRIPLE mulliganed. I almost felt bad but then I remembered I hate RUG.
I root for you. It'd be awesome to see Affinity in the top 8!Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
So I ended up 5-4 at SCG Philly, winning 5 games in a row... and then losing four games in a row. I won against Goblins, 2 Storm decks, RUG Delver, and URW Delver. I lost to BWR Stoneblade, then to goblin master Jim Davis, and to two OmniTell decks. There's definitely a lot of things I learned, since this was my first Open, but I'm kinda too lazy to elaborate on all of my experiences in writing, such as being more nervous than my first round opponent was probably half my age, forgetting A LOT of triggers, and familiarizing myself with REL rules and trying not to get screwed by them or my opponents. OH, and I learned one knew rules interaction that I always assumed worked differently: if you swap one of your Equipment to another creature, and it fizzles because your opponent removes it, the Equipment stays on the original creature. I never would've realized that until a judge watching told me about that.
I could have fought hard just to turn my loss to BWR Stoneblade into a draw because we played g2 into overtime, but I'm glad I was able to enjoy a nice game after I did not enjoy my game against UWR Delver, despite winning, because my opponent was trying to rules-fuck me in every situation.
Jim Davis is a really cool guy, and I'm glad I got to be on a Feature match with him (I did say no to being on camera, sorry Twitter), and he helped me let go of my nervousness. As he said "Haters just hate, they don't do," so I'll have to remember that next time I'm at an Open or I'm nervous at a tournament. He did kick my ass though. I got mana screwed out of white on g2, and I just sat there with a SFM and Batterskull in my hand as Jim just obliterated me. I think I'm going to dump the Stoneforge package and go back to running Etched Champions, if I'm going to continue playing Moon lists. Or I could just go back to running my Esperblade list.
I ran less hate against Omni-Tell this Open, but despite facing two OmniTell decks in a row, I don't regret my decision considering there was my last two losses. I'm more concerned with my MD now that I have to rethink how I face Goblins. Although, in my last match against OmniTell, I had 2 out of 2 Canonists on the board and a Ravager. The guy won by playing a Rushing River with kicker off of Omniscience, which I have to say was pretty awesome. If he had Echoing Truth, he would've been nailed because I could just sacrifice my Canonist in response to protect the other one.
Good times. Shout outs to John for being a good tournament guardian angel and Jeremiah Rudolph (aka Rock Lee in our forums) for organizing the ride to Philly and being the reason I came to Philly!
hi guys.... i would need some help here
i have serious problems constructing a usefull sideboard
i have problems for straight UB, for UBw and for UBr
what cards do i want to counter, and what options would be appropriate in the different matchups
thanks in advance
EDIT: also, what are your thoughts on steel overseer, and on lightning greaves in this deck?
Could you elaborate on your problems? Are you referring to other decks that are UB or UBx, or just builds of Affinity?Quote:
Originally Posted by AggroSteve
I can list for you all of the SB options that are relevant now, but I think the best way to help you out and others is to share with you two principles I operate under when constructing SBs for Affinity:
- Aim to run SB cards that have versatile application. Chalice of the Void is an example. It is not only good against fast Storm Combo, including Belcher, but it is also handy versus Delver Tempo decks that rely on a bevy of 1-mana spells.
- Primarily consider only artifacts as your SB options, and only consider nonartifact spells unless they are very versatile. Running Dismember or Dispatch just to have removal against creatures is bad SBing because you are likely removing artifacts to fit in those SB cards and you are thus reducing the internal synergy of Affinity. However, running something like Spell Pierce is a very smart SB option, because when you are able to resolve it against a critical spell (such as Show and Tell or Terminus), it is worth the trouble of diluting your deck since it can be such a life saver.
As I said, I can enumerate you all of the SB cards that you should be thinking about, but I will give you a small example of what I am currently working on now. After some reflection upon SCG Philly, this is my latest SB rendition for the Moon Affinity build:
SB
4 Chalice
4 Tidehollow Sculler
4 Vedalken Certarch
3 Ethersworn Canonist
Even though I'm running Certarch, a nonartifact creature, over half of my SB are all artifacts. Now look at the applications each SB option has against various matchups. We already discussed Chalice. Ethersworn Canonist is also relevant against OmniTell, but it is a must-answer card against Storm decks. Tidehollow Sculler is good hate against OmniTell decks since it is not only hand disruption, but it is also live against Sneak Show, whereas Ethersworn Canonist isn't. Vedalken Certarch is an excellent foil against Sneak-Show, but it can also be brought in against control decks.
Like any other two-drop (Ravager, SFM), it can be very bad for your opponent if they choose to ignore it. However, unlike Ravager or SFM, it doesn't have immediate impact on the board state and its usefulness depends on its own survival after resolution. I wouldn't run it.Quote:
EDIT: also, what are your thoughts on steel overseer, and on lightning greaves in this deck?
Lightning Greaves is very interesting and unique. But shroud has some anti-synergy with Plating. How about... Swiftfoot Boots? Hexproof and haste is definitely a spicy combination to have on a creature.
After losing to Reanimator in a local tourney, I came around to putting back gy hate in the sb, and with that consideration came new brainstorming on updating SB flexibility. However, I felt I also needed cards to deal with Reanimator post-reanimation, so I decided to add in Karakas and O-Ring. Of course, I chose those cards specifically due to their additional relevance to Sneak-Show.
Latest SB:
4 Chalice/Thorn
4 Cage
1 Karakas
3 O-Ring
3 Canonist
I literally just had this idea as I'm writing this: I'm thinking about trying out Thorn of Amethyst over Chalice, to double up as Storm hate and Omni-hate. Keep in mind, I'm back to running Ancient Tombs, 4 MD this time instead of 3. EDIT: Already hating Thorn as Storm hate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
i was wondering why you would run cage over relic of progenitus
cage practically works only against reanimator and dredge (maybe i am missing something, maybe storm via past in flames or combo elves but that should allready be dealt with due to canonists and chalice)
relic has the same applications but against more matchups like maverick, Rug, Bug-tempo, any green deck with big beaters like goyf, KotR
additionally every topdecked relic can be cycled or used for more graveyard controll, cage does not stack and would be an awefull topdeck after you allready have one in play, and the only matchups it is worse than cage is dredge and combo elves
on the chalice vs. thorn topic:
i would definitely prefer chalice, it can outright kill some decks and make the win quite easy, thorn on the other hand can be usefull in more matchups but without taxing effects in this deck thorn may only buy one turn or not even hinder the opponent as much as a chalice would, both cards do not hinder our gameplan (allthough thorn a bit more) and therefore thorn is woy worse than chalice
well the choices obviously depend on the meta, and to further understand your decisions it would allways be needed to know about your meta as well
depending on the meta it would be preferable running whitesplash (combo), or redsplash (midrange, aggro... whipflare is an awesome card there :P)
EDIT: on oblivion ring... i do not think it is the right choice, but i do not know, i have still little testing expierience with this deck (well after 3 or 4 years i did not play it) but if you are only worried about the creatures the opponent could reanimate or put into play there would also journey to nowhere and it costs only 2 mana and also a card you mentioned vedalken certarch.... just food for thought
I'm running Cage over Relic because I want to beat Reanimator. Relic is slower and can be beat by Pithing Needle.Quote:
Originally Posted by AggroSteve
I've gone back to Chalice. Being able to cast Chalice for 0 in any situation is more beneficial than I realized. Whether it is tapping out for Thoughtcast and drawing Chalice, or needing to activate Mox Opal to turn 1, Chalice@0 is pretty useful play and comes up very often.Quote:
on the chalice vs. thorn topic:
i would definitely prefer chalice, it can outright kill some decks and make the win quite easy, thorn on the other hand can be usefull in more matchups but without taxing effects in this deck thorn may only buy one turn or not even hinder the opponent as much as a chalice would, both cards do not hinder our gameplan (allthough thorn a bit more) and therefore thorn is woy worse than chalice
Journey to Nowhere doesn't also exile Omniscience. Vedalken Certarch doesn't remove Elesh Norn or Blazing Archon.Quote:
EDIT: on oblivion ring... i do not think it is the right choice, but i do not know, i have still little testing expierience with this deck (well after 3 or 4 years i did not play it) but if you are only worried about the creatures the opponent could reanimate or put into play there would also journey to nowhere and it costs only 2 mana and also a card you mentioned vedalken certarch.... just food for thought
Drew Levin wrote a premium article about Affinity on SCG. It was pretty interesting. I'm almost done building the deck, and might bring it to a few local events :)
I won't reproduce the article here or post his decklist, because that wouldn't be fair, but the article will be available for free in a few weeks (IIRC SCG articles are free 1 month after being posted).
This week, he posted a second article, with videos of him playing the deck on MTGO.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...That-Wins.html
http://www.starcitygames.com/article...In-Legacy.html
I like how Drew Levin's first article on Affinity is titled "Introducing A Budget Aggressive Creature Deck That Wins," and the list has a miser's Tundra :laugh:
His list isn't actually bad, other than the miser's Tundra that is completely unnecessary other than to sell more Tundras. It's your standard UB Tezzeret with Ancient Dens instead of Darksteel Citadel for the SB Canonists. I've been looking for an excuse to go back to running Vault Skirges, and now that I'm back to running Tombs, which makes Frogmite harder to cast turn 1, I might cut the Frogs for Skirges.
The SB is pretty bad:
4 Canonist
4 Chalice
3 MBTrap
4 RiP
The MBT is overkill. RiP is too slow against Reanimator, the worst graveyard deck to face for Affinity, and furthermore, running just 4 gy-hate isn't enough. The SB has no answers against Sneak-Show other than MBT, but that's pretty terrible. You can't prepare against every combo deck with the same 15 card SB, so I can understand the focus on Storm. But there's not enough gy-hate in there.
Is it possible to have a competitive deck using 2x invisible stalker, 2x Stoneforge Mystic + 1 U.Jitte in main deck?
What color combination would be better? UWr (4x Galvanic 1x Shrapnel Blast) or UWb. I have almost all the cards affinity, the only problem is: I have only 3x Mox Opal and the moment I have no Ancient Tomb available. help me with a list and side.
The field here is currently:
1x Death & Taxes
1x Sneak and Show and their mutations (Omnitell, Enter the Infinite, Dream Halls / Hive Mind - All the same owner)
1x Maverick (Splash U - Meddling Mage, Fluterstorm... etc.)
1x Goblin
1x LED Dredge
1x Belcher
1x UR Stasis
1x The Gate
2x Slivers
1x Burn
1x All Spells
1x UG Infect
I think that is all....Thanks.
- "Damn...Sneak and Show".
I don't think Invisible Stalker is any good, seeing as it's only good with Cranial Plating, and it can't be targeted by Arcbound Ravager. It seems like too much set up to try to make Invisible Stalker + Plating one of your main avenues of victory. Doesn't Etched Champion do everything Stalker does, but better?
You say they are some cards you don't have, like the 4th Mox Opal. What cards do you have? If you are going Red, do you have Whipflare, or Red Elemental Blasts? Whipflare can take care of a lot of the creature matchups, including UG Infect. It also doubles as an answer to Empty the Warrens. ReB can take care of your blue matchups, such as Show and Tell or Bant Maverick.
Since you are playing white, you can avoid having to run red just for creature removal because you can just play Dispatch. Dispatch is probably better than Galvanic Blast against UG Infect.
Do you have Chalice of the Void? Because you will need that in order to win against Belcher or All Spells.
You don't seem to have a lot of midrange or control decks, just either combo decks or creature decks, so you probably want to stay away from running Tezzeret MD (or in the 75).
I can help you more if you tell me what cards you have.
He gives budget alternatives for Tundra like Glimmervoid. Seachrome Coast works too. I do agree on the GY hate though. I'd like one to two more cards against GY decks, cutting a couple MBT. I think Cage is the best here. I don't think RIP is too slow because Drew's deck can reliably generate two mana on the first turn. The lack of Show and Tell hate is because you can race Show and Tell decks but you can't do anything against Storm decks. They are just too fast.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawon
I think the deck is sweet. The emphasis on evasive dorks lets you come out really fast and keep swinging. I've goldfished it a bunch and I like -1 Drum, -1 Champion +2 Steel Overseer. There were a few too many hands that were a bit too durdly and Overseer is pretty sweet to jam on turn one. It could very well be wrong since I haven't run the deck through the gauntlet yet.
Tundra is still terribly bad because it has no interaction with the rest of the deck, and it creates a completely unnecessary risk of being blown out by Merfolk with their Islandwalking Lords. Furthermore, black mana is not worthless in the deck, you not only need it to cast Tezzeret, but having ways to activate Cranial Plating's second ability is not something to be overlooked. Therefore, even Glimmervoid is better than Tundra, and Glimmervoid sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Amon Amarth
If a flex mana fixer is really needed, then any mana-producing artifact would be better for the 1-of slot. Paradise Mantle is way better than TUNDRA, or even Lotus Petal. At least they can be sacrificed to Ravager or help cast Thoughtcast.
RiP is too slow against Reanimator. That deck runs Daze and discard. You also can't cast Rest in Peace off of Ancient Tomb. Stick to artifact-based gy hate like Crypt, Spellbomb or Cage (no Relic) if you want to beat Reanimator.Quote:
I do agree on the GY hate though. I'd like one to two more cards against GY decks, cutting a couple MBT. I think Cage is the best here. I don't think RIP is too slow because Drew's deck can reliably generate two mana on the first turn. The lack of Show and Tell hate is because you can race Show and Tell decks but you can't do anything against Storm decks. They are just too fast.
Affinity can't race S&T decks. Maybe Sneak-Show, like occasionally, but any S&T matchup is bad pre-board. Like I said, you can't game against every combo deck, but not running SB hate against S&T decks because you think you can race them is naive.