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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
sporenfrosch1411
In that place, i would much rather see Chalice of the Void then. Its more versatile.
I believe he's talking in addition to 4 trinispheres and 4 chalice of the voids.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
jandax
Yeah that's just simple supply verses demand. Because of the volumn of business SCG does, they do in some way influence the market, but if they were to set prices, their competitors would lowball them for effect.
I saw maybe two online stores not named SCG have one Candelabra available in the past two weeks. Less than 24 hours after the event, all those stores were sold-out and 6 Buy-it-Nows on eBay were bought. So StarCity has the only available Candelabras on the market. I'm not saying they bought the ones on eBay and from the other stores, but I wouldn't put it past them. That is price fixing. Remember before Grim Monolith was unbanned, SCG had hundreds in stock for approximately $5 a piece. Not two minutes after the unbanning announcement, they were "sold out". One day later, the price is at $40. How is that right? They paid maybe $1 for those cards that they are selling for 40 times as much! It's still a $25 card, not because it is played in EDH and a couple fringe decks (that cost infinity dollars to make), but because it's how SCG does business. Once a card spikes that high, it will never go back down to a reasonable level. I'm still surprised Time Spiral only a little more than doubled in price after its unbanning. It's out of stock at $29.99 right now and they're buying them for $15, so I can only assume "as soon as they get them", Time Spiral will be priced around $50.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
Sims
I believe he's talking in addition to 4 trinispheres and 4 chalice of the voids.
Obv.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
What's a good price to unload Candelabra? Wait for another 1-2 tourneys to get more people spiking its price higher? I have a Candelabra that I would like to unload. If they're selling for ~$200, I'll be glad to unload them even at $150.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
Jason
I saw maybe two online stores not named SCG have one Candelabra available in the past two weeks. Less than 24 hours after the event, all those stores were sold-out and 6 Buy-it-Nows on eBay were bought. So StarCity has the only available Candelabras on the market. I'm not saying they bought the ones on eBay and from the other stores, but I wouldn't put it past them. That is price fixing. Remember before Grim Monolith was unbanned, SCG had hundreds in stock for approximately $5 a piece. Not two minutes after the unbanning announcement, they were "sold out". One day later, the price is at $40. How is that right? They paid maybe $1 for those cards that they are selling for 40 times as much! It's still a $25 card, not because it is played in EDH and a couple fringe decks (that cost infinity dollars to make), but because it's how SCG does business. Once a card spikes that high, it will never go back down to a reasonable level. I'm still surprised Time Spiral only a little more than doubled in price after its unbanning. It's out of stock at $29.99 right now and they're buying them for $15, so I can only assume "as soon as they get them", Time Spiral will be priced around $50.
I'm not saying I like SCG or any other online retailer over another but I can say that they are all great places for a speculator to shop. They have all the undiscovered cards very cheap and in large quantities.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
Metalwalker
What's a good price to unload Candelabra? Wait for another 1-2 tourneys to get more people spiking its price higher? I have a Candelabra that I would like to unload. If they're selling for ~$200, I'll be glad to unload them even at $150.
I would sell it now or in a few days. You should cross your fingers that someone will top 1-8 with it during this weekend in SCG Legacy Open.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
Jason
I'm really kicking myself because I've been watching Candelabras on eBay for the past two weeks. I was hoping to get one for cheap last Wednesday, but when the price was $70, I passed. What a steal that would have been! Needless to say, no card should change prices 4 times in one week (last Wednesday - $69.99 on SCG *sold out*; last Friday/Saturday - $99.99 on SCG; Monday morning - $149.99 on SCG; now - $249.99), more than tripling in value in 8 days. Methinks SCG is doing shady business and I have a hard time dealing with them due to their continuous price fixing.
Sounds familiar. I stopped trying to get Bazaar of Baghdad when it's price got over 30 bucks. Pretty dumb, in hindsight. On the bright side: my playset of goyfs was only 10 bucks.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
Jason
Not two minutes after the unbanning announcement, they were "sold out". One day later, the price is at $40. How is that right?
Their job is to turn a profit, right? By making cards unavailable as their price is AMAZINGLY UNSTABLE, they are able to take advantage of the skyrocketed price. They don't back out on the ones that they did sell at the low price (that I've heard of), they simply said "we don't know what these are going to move to in the next 48 or so hours, so we don't have any for sale" in order to ensure that they do what they are supposed to do. They made sure they made money.
How is them buying it from an underpriced retailer and selling it for the proper price any different from you doing it?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Star City had Tombstalker a week ago at 7. They're now sold out at 8. If TA keeps doing well how far is Tombstalker going to go? I'm guessing 15 at the high end.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
They just do the same as any other store. They have a number of them in stock at a certain price. If they sell out instantly on all of them at once, they know the price is too low and to raise it. They restock them again and if they sell out instantly again, they raise it again until it levels out. If they just stocked everything they had, they would be wiped out by one person more than likely in a speculator rush and never have much in stock and lose a ton in the process. It's just being smart, not controlling the price.
There were plenty of other stores selling Candelabras cheaply, but they sold out later. I had thought about grabbing a few, but decided against it, but I did see them so SCG isn't controlling much. Limited supply drove the price up.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
Jason
I saw maybe two online stores not named SCG have one Candelabra available in the past two weeks. Less than 24 hours after the event, all those stores were sold-out and 6 Buy-it-Nows on eBay were bought. So StarCity has the only available Candelabras on the market. I'm not saying they bought the ones on eBay and from the other stores, but I wouldn't put it past them. That is price fixing. Remember before Grim Monolith was unbanned, SCG had hundreds in stock for approximately $5 a piece. Not two minutes after the unbanning announcement, they were "sold out". One day later, the price is at $40. How is that right? They paid maybe $1 for those cards that they are selling for 40 times as much! It's still a $25 card, not because it is played in EDH and a couple fringe decks (that cost infinity dollars to make), but because it's how SCG does business. Once a card spikes that high, it will never go back down to a reasonable level. I'm still surprised Time Spiral only a little more than doubled in price after its unbanning. It's out of stock at $29.99 right now and they're buying them for $15, so I can only assume "as soon as they get them", Time Spiral will be priced around $50.
It's the free market powers being somewhat suppressed. SCG is a large (Probably the largest) Magic retailer. They can drive up card prices all by themselves. How so, you might ask? My dear Watson, I shall enlighten you then. Let's take Tarmogoyf as an example.
Once people discovered that Tarmogoyf was good, SCG began buying them at a set price. Let us, for the sake of argument, assume that this started out as being 20 $. As long as SCG were stockpiling their Goyfs for 20 $ each, every potential seller would not want less than 20 $ for his Goyf when selling it at a place like eBay, mainly because SCG were willing to pay that. And it is quite likely that the eBay sellers would set the price above that (Who wouldn't?). Once SCG started selling Goyfs at, say, 30 $ (Again, sake of argument), the eBay sellers could sell their 2 or 3 Goyfs at 27 $ each and make a profit compared to selling it to SCG because their Goyfs were individually cheaper. SCG, on the other hand, had the power of availability - if you want a playset of soem random card fast, that's probably the easiest way to do it. And many players won't even bother with eBay - they just buy from stores like SCH, ChannelFireball, TrollandToad or whatever. Now, all of these other stores understandably look to the leader for prices. In this case, the leader is SCG because it's such a huge business (Compared to the others, that is). When someone sets a card price on eBay or MOTL, they tend to look at shop prices, and since these are heavily influenced by SCG, this allows SCG to control the market to quite an extent. Now, let's continue our Goyf story. Say that SCG raised the price of their Goyfs to 33 $. Almost immediatly, individual sellers will pick up on this trend, because who doesn't want to make as much money as possible? So their prices would go up to 30 $. And so forth.
I'm not calling SCG evil or anything like that, I just thought I'd like to point out how they could (perhaps hypothetically) influence the market prices directly.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
@Dragon Whelp: You are right but there are 2 things we need to look at. 1. There is a finite supply at a certain price. 2. When all the cheaper ones are bought up if there is demand left over then people will buy from SCG. However, if all the demand is met from the lower price shops either SCG holds on longer or lower's their price to make a sale.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
jazzykat
@Dragon Whelp: You are right but there are 2 things we need to look at. 1. There is a finite supply at a certain price. 2. When all the cheaper ones are bought up if there is demand left over then people will buy from SCG. However, if all the demand is met from the lower price shops either SCG holds on longer or lower's their price to make a sale.
I would like to make a parallel to the diamond industry. You see, diamonds are one of, if not the single most expensive jewel. However, in actuality, they are not much rarer than rubies. Now, let us compare prices:
An ideally cut diamond. Average price: 4,544 $.
Same, but with a ruby. Average price: 1,800 $.
Now, why the disparity? There are two reasons for this. One would be what would equal hype when it comes to Magic cards. Diamonds are pushed as much better and more special than rubies, and if you propose to someone, you'd better have a diamond on that ring. The second is hoarding. Massive hoarding. You would not believe it. The sellers create an artificially low supply by hiding away lots of diamonds, thus inflating the price. Magic card stores do the same. Think about it. If SCG had 100 Candelabra in store right now, would everyone hurry up and buy them? Probably not at the same rate that we see now. They would wait for the price to drop and the hype to die down. If there's 8? Holy crap, get 'em while they're still there! And that's basically how it works. Hype and artificially low supplies drive up prices. I mean, don't try to tell me that they don't have any Jace TMS in stock at all. They're just waiting until people are ready to pay any price in order to get their Jaces in time for whatever big tourney is coming up next. Then they sell en masse.
As someone stated earlier in the thread, absolutely brilliant way to make money. But sucks for the rest of us, doesn't it?
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jason
I saw maybe two online stores not named SCG have one Candelabra available in the past two weeks. Less than 24 hours after the event, all those stores were sold-out and 6 Buy-it-Nows on eBay were bought. So StarCity has the only available Candelabras on the market. I'm not saying they bought the ones on eBay and from the other stores, but I wouldn't put it past them. That is price fixing. Remember before Grim Monolith was unbanned, SCG had hundreds in stock for approximately $5 a piece. Not two minutes after the unbanning announcement, they were "sold out". One day later, the price is at $40. How is that right? They paid maybe $1 for those cards that they are selling for 40 times as much! It's still a $25 card, not because it is played in EDH and a couple fringe decks (that cost infinity dollars to make), but because it's how SCG does business. Once a card spikes that high, it will never go back down to a reasonable level. I'm still surprised Time Spiral only a little more than doubled in price after its unbanning. It's out of stock at $29.99 right now and they're buying them for $15, so I can only assume "as soon as they get them", Time Spiral will be priced around $50.
I'd agree with you except:
A) We only had a couple dozen Grim Monolith in stock at the time of the unbanning,
B) We had zero Time Spiral in stock at the time of unbanning - and it just won our largest Legacy open ever last week (nearly 300 players, Edison)
C) I know of a few people who have been buying up Candelabras over the past couple of months, and I think you can tell who they are based on the number of auctions they have on E-bay over the past week (check completed and current auctions).
Also, price fixing by definition requires more than one party - it is a conspiracy across an entire market to consciously set a price on a product at "X" so there are no options to buy said product at a price other than "X". Given that we don't control the supply of Magic cards for the world, much less the dozen-or-so Candelabras showing up on E-bay right now - I think you're looking for a different term here :)
It's pretty interesting to see how most market fluctuations are attributed to us; it's flattering, but more times than not it's incorrect.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Dragon_Whelp
Think about it. If SCG had 100 Candelabra in store right now, would everyone hurry up and buy them? Probably not at the same rate that we see now. They would wait for the price to drop and the hype to die down. If there's 8? Holy crap, get 'em while they're still there! And that's basically how it works. Hype and artificially low supplies drive up prices. I mean, don't try to tell me that they don't have any Jace TMS in stock at all. They're just waiting until people are ready to pay any price in order to get their Jaces in time for whatever big tourney is coming up next. Then they sell en masse.
Right now we have a total of six Candelabras - four as individual cards, and two that are in complete AQ sets we have on the website. We are also completely sold out of Jace, TMS - but we are still working through our Edison, PAX East and Memphis Acquisitions right now. I would think that it would do us better to sell Jaces, and whatever decks people would buy that include Jaces, then to have thousands of dollars in dead inventory on a card we're showing zero of right now :)
- Ben
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
So it seems that SCG declared that Wasteland is atleast a $30 card. More realistically this number atm is around $35-40, and thats after it seeing print as judge foil :confused:
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
Pippin
So it seems that SCG declared that Wasteland is atleast a $30 card. More realistically this number atm is around $35-40, and thats after it seeing print as judge foil :confused:
They don't "declare" its value. They have people who, I'm guessing, watch ebay and other places along with what people pay from them to determine how much people are willing to pay to acquire said card. They also figure out how much they have to pay to buy them from people. If people are willing to move the card at both prices, then there's no problem. If not, they adjust the sell or buy price accordingly.
If they want someone else to work for this end, they're welcome to contact me as well...
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
They've had Wastelands at 30 for a while, afaik.
Most people trade nice copies at 25.
-Matt
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
I'm really starting to think the format is going to implode on itself like Vintage again. This is getting silly. Wasteland is a stupid Uncommon. It's almost making packs of tempest worth opening. I have a bunch of starter decks still and it's getting tempting.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
dahcmai
I'm really starting to think the format is going to implode on itself like Vintage again.
Remember those rumors about the filler between legacy and extended? Maybe they aren't so rumorish after all. The idea is there. The demand for a longer format is there. I think it's going to cap on availability. I'm working on the "overextended staples" now.
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Re: Raise, raise, raise. The price of cardboard
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Originally Posted by
sdematt
They've had Wastelands at 30 for a while, afaik.
Most people trade nice copies at 25.
-Matt
Think you read it wrong Matt. They aren't selling it for $30, they are buying it for that much. Wasteland is currently 49.99 on SCG for NM copy, and 44.99 for a SP one.
:eek:
