[Deck] Deadguy Ale (B/w Confidant)

after some testing i made a new gbw build:

4xgoyf
4xconfidant
3xdoran
3xlynx(maybe not the best creature but solves some problems and survives with a deed)

4xswords to plowshares

4xdeed

4xvindicate
4xthougthseize
4xhymn to tourach

4xlotus petal(i really, really like this card i the deck, not only goyf becomes bigger but i solves you mana many times and kan be really handfull in so many times)

1xvolrath's stronghold(like his one too, against control or aggro/control it can be very iriitating for them)
5xswamp
1xforest
1xplains
4xheath
4xmire
3xscrubland
3xbayou

sb:

4xgaddock teeg
4xextirpate
4xtormod's crypt
3xeplosives/krosan grip/jitte/ whatever i want

i really like this list because it can be very quick, enough removal and big beaters.

do people have tips for me for a better side cause that's not my strongest thing:laugh:

I have no idea why you would run Deed.. It kills most of your creatures....kills confi, kills goyf, kills doran, kills lynx unless you regen it...and you dont even have tombstalker,at the least...

Doran was always hard to cast.... So I dont think he'd fit in.

I still think the land D. route with sinkholes and wastelands are the way to go specially, thresh and other decks in the decks to beat are very vulnerable to Land destruction...

deed is almost the best card in the deck, i play the deck very much and i almost never blow up my creatures. and if i have many vreatures to blow up, i'm winning so i dont have to blow it up. if i'm still losing, i see no reason why i would not blow it up. i run 1 volrath's stonghold now if i need the creatures back and it works really fine.

doran is really not hard to cast, when i cast it. most of the time its mid-game so i have al the mana i need.

i played a tourney last sunday with the ld build and it really screwed me up. most of the tim ei was mana screwd cause of wasteland and the ld did really nothing to the situation. most of the decks dont bother if their landd gets kil;ed. thresh has cantrips to search for, loam plays enough lands and loam them back, goblins play vials and ld themself, ichorid can do without land still very good, and landstill wins if they get a crucible wich happens me many times. thats the reason why i cutted the ld route, it never worked for me on tourneys.

edit. i really want to run 3 stalker instead of the spectral lynx slot bur they hurt so super badly with confidant and i had really very bad expierience with this. i played bw deadguy with 2 stalkers and revealed them for almost 8 times on a tourney. thats the reason i'm afraid to run them.

Sensei's Divining Top about your Tombstalker problem. Need I say more? Oh, and where's Wasteland? That's what I hate about 3c, you lose Wasteland. (Unless, of course, you run Mox Diamond instead of fragile non-basics, but in that case you cant run deed. See?)

i cutted wasteland cause i didnt like it, in the bw build its a must but i was so insane many tourneys mana screwd because of wasteland in opening hand or as topdecks when i needed bb that i really wanted a 3c build without it. yes i know the power of this card but i really never had luck with it.

i'm going to try to put top in the list but i want to keep the petals because of the quickness and mana solve of this card.

i'm going to try to fit 2/3 top's in the list(what's the best number?)

the threshold decks can run 3 tops because they run 10+ filter effects to go with it. If you plan on using the top you should run 4 or you might never see it.

So be it. That's better than seeing double Top. It's also because Top is not necessary, not critical, to have in your opening hand. Why? Cause you have to disrupt the opponent severly in your opening hand. There's hardly time or mana to Top until turn 3/4.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hummingbird TG

So be it. That's better than seeing double Top. It's also because Top is not necessary, not critical, to have in your opening hand. Why? Cause you have to disrupt the opponent severly in your opening hand. There's hardly time or mana to Top until turn 3/4.

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You do realize that you can simply draw off spare tops and fetch them away, don't you? I'm sure there are plenty of good reasons to cut a top from the deck, but redundancy really isn't an issue if you play a decent amount of shuffle effects.

Yea, 8 shuffle effects. Thats not really alot, though. The primary reason for not playing 4 tops, though, is the fact that if I see two in my opening hand, to shuffle one away I would need to spend mana to cast it, that mana which I can be using for disrupting my opponent instead, and a card in hand which could have been a disruption piece necessary.

Hello everyone, I just joined here so thought I'd say hi. Its pretty interesting on how much you can modify this deck, I see quite a bit of these types emerging on other forums I checked out.
I was kinda hoping I can get some tips, opinions and perhaps some advises about my B/W deck. I wanted to put it on a different post, but since it can/might be able to contribute I thought I'd post it here instead of making a new one.

At the moment this is what I have for my deck:

Lands (23)
4X [CARD]Bloodstained Mire[/CARD]
7X [CARD]Swamp[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Scrubland[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Godless Shrine[/CARD]
1X [CARD]Tainted Field[/CARD]
1X [CARD]Volrath's Stronghold[/CARD]
2X [CARD]Tomb of Urami[/CARD]

Creatures (16)
4X [CARD]Hypnotic Specter[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Dark Confidant[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Nantuko Shade[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Mother of Runes[/CARD]

Non-Creature Spells (19)
4X [CARD]Dark Ritual[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Swords to Plowshares[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Hymn to Tourach[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Duress[/CARD]
3X [CARD]Vindicate[/CARD]

Artifact (2)
2X [CARD]Umezawa's Jitte[/CARD]

Side board (15)
4X [Card]Withered Wretch[/CARD]
4X [CARD]True Believer[/card]
3X [CARD]Extirpate[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Warmth[/CARD]


[CARD]Wasteland[/CARD] was taken out. While the card may add some more disruption and can slow down the opponent a great deal. Majority of the time, however, I dont have any targets for it. Non-basic lands I usually see aside from dual are, other wastelands, Ghost quarter, fetches and Flagstones.
The fact that BB is very important on turn two, its colorless mana production just slows me down actually. So I took out the Wasteland.

[CARD]Volrath's Stronghold[/CARD] Added as a 1 off, can be useful when opponent uses Pernicious Deed, Engineered Explosives, Wrath of God/Damnation, and etc. Bringing back the threats, however, even though it can be pretty useful. The deck operates of alot of colored mana sources, and getting 1 on the opening hand can be problematic if you only have 1 other colored mana producing land. That means if I dont run into another colored producing land that can be the deciding factor of the match. 1 of this land seems good enough.

[CARD]Tomb of Urami[/CARD] There are some games that I lost where I got the opponnent into top decking. But since my clock was too slow, they were able to recover in time. I was thinking that maybe the tomb can act as my alternate win condition. Getting them into top decking and making urami into a big creature pretty much translates into... find the answer now or lose.

[CARD]Mother of Runes[/CARD] A pretty good drop for a mere 1 mana. Protects my threats from spot removal. Especially since specter, confidant, and most especially the shade... always has a target symbol on their head.

[CARD]Umezawa's Jitte[/CARD] I think I run enough creatures to warrant the use of the card. Having more though just doesn't seem right. The life gain is not bad either after taking some life loss from confidant.

=== Some things I'm hoping I can get some thoughts on ===

1) For awhile now I've been wondering wether I should run Cursed Scroll instead of the Jitte. They can both generate card advantage, but scroll can hit the opponent. Jitte also requires a creature, and that creature also needs to be able to connect a hit. While Cursed scroll seems more reliable. However spending 3 mana a turn to deal a measly 2 damage seems inefficient for the cost. But then again Jitte can just be plain evil a well, especially when combined with Mother of the Runes.

2) Alot of people are telling me to replace either the Hymn to Tourach or Duress with Thoughtseize. I know its a good card, but even with jitte in the deck. Between the fetchlands and Confidant, I fear that I'm just going to lose way too much life. What's your opinion on Gerrard's Verdict to occupy the Duress slot?

3) For this deck, what is your opinion on Dark Ritual vs Chrome Mox?


Thanks for taking the time to read, and many thanks to those that responds.

Between the fetchlands and Confidant, you don't even lose much life. Better to pay two more life than get bashed int he head by a Tarmogoyf, though, no? But if you're really paranoid about life-loss, you can play Sensei's Divining Top.

(Although if you do do that, make sure to run at least 2 Tombstalker. By the way, where are the Tombstalkers? They're too good to drop.)

Hummingbird TG:

I did not run Tombstalker, since I am running confidant. Drawing tombstalker could very well spell game for me should I draw him via confidant. Sensei's divining top is a good card and works well with confidant but I dont want to run it just for the sake of trying to fit in tombstalker. Should the opponent be in top deck mode that's why I have nantuko shade. The tomb of urami is just there as an alternate win condition. Should there be no shades present.

I've actually started using Thoughtseize now, at a cost of losing hymn to tourach though. I am experimenting on it at the moment, wether losing the 2 for 1s for the sake of getting the critical cards. Granted Hymn can also hit that critical card plus others, however, we're talking about consistency here.
At the moment this is what I am running...


Lands (23)
4X [CARD]Bloodstained Mire[/CARD]
7X [CARD]Swamp[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Scrubland[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Godless Shrine[/CARD]
1X [CARD]Tainted Field[/CARD]
1X [CARD]Volrath's Stronghold[/CARD]
2X [CARD]Tomb of Urami[/CARD]

Creatures (16)
4X [CARD]Hypnotic Specter[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Dark Confidant[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Nantuko Shade[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Mother of Runes[/CARD]

Non-Creature Spells (19)
4X [CARD]Dark Ritual[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Thoughtseize[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Duress[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Swords to Plowshares[/CARD]
3X [CARD]Vindicate[/CARD]

Artifact (2)
2X [CARD]Umezawa's Jitte[/CARD]


Side board (15)
4X [Card]Withered Wretch[/CARD]
4X [CARD]True Believer[/card]
3X [CARD]Extirpate[/CARD]
4X [CARD]Warmth[/CARD]



I am running thoughtseize and duress together, just experimenting for now. Although I am curious about something, is 16 creatures on the deck sufficient enough to run Cabal Therapy instead of the duress?

thoughtseize + hymn to tourach seems like the best discard package, rather than duress (as in, seize replaces duress). I was never a huge fan of therapy. I mean, it's pretty good, but I feel more comfortable with any of the above as I don't like to blindly cast a therapy

Zappa, I really like that deck, but I have 2 recommendations for you.

1) I think you should add some deltas and wastes to the deck, that way you only have to run 3/4 scrublands and have a more stable manabase. However, what you have should definitely work, and I can understand if you don't want to pick up deltas, wastes and sinkholes (pricey as hell) The manabase definitely seems to work right now though. I know. The land D makes your discard so much more powerful.

I'm surprised that you don't have many targets for wasteland. The vast majority of decks in legacy run mostly nonbasics. The power that wasteland provides is often worth a little bit of mulliganing because you don't get 2 black sources in your hand

Land D + Hymn makes people cry, it's great synergy.

2) I really like running 8 pinpoint discard, but you need the CA that hymn provides. Especially in a deck like deadguy. You win by establishing control over your opponent, so you need to focus on whiping their lands and hands. It makes your threats go the distance unhindered much more often.

Anyway, I know this has been discussed to death, and I'm sure you've heard it before, but I recommend you test it out.

I agree about the Hymn. Run it or suffer. :laugh: But in all seriousness, Hymn, as mentioned earlier, is great CA. Also, Hymn seems nice against Control, like Landstill and the like.

Also, 4 Shades? Multiples aren't that good. Play at least one Tombstalker. 8 dmg is not GG. If you have both Confidant and Stalker, you should be in pretty good shape already, as it means 1) they don't have removal or 2) Confidant has drawn you enough gas and they aren't doing anything much, then you thrash them with Stalker eitherway, no?

Oh, and where are the E. Plagues?

The funny thing about it all when it comes to this deck in particular is the original is usually the most thought out.

Here it is folks:

The top two decks in the format currently are: threshold/landstill

What do both of these decks hate to see? land disruption, this is why dragon stompy is so amazing right now.

If I was ever to play this deck again, I would play the following:

BGW

lands//22
4 wasteland
3 scrubland
3 bayou
1 forest
1 plains
2 windswept heath
4 bloodstained mire
4 swamp

creatures//15
4 tarmogoyf
4 dark confidant
4 hypnotic specter
3 nantuko shade

spells//23
4 dark ritual
4 sinkhole
4 vindicate
3 duress
4 thoughtseize
4 swords to plowshares

sideboard//
4 jotan grunt/extirpate (I would run grunt because of my meta, extirpate is better)
3 krosan grip/serenity (grip if its' thresh/landstill, serenity if stax/challice agro)
4 engineered plague (ETW, ichorid, goblins, random decks)
4 engineered explosives (thresh/fish/etw)


The sideboard is very generic, but strong... the MD is plain and simple, and is strong because of that.... you can get away with running only 22 lands, as you have he extra boost from ritual, and you have a very low curve, which pays off.

The green splash for goyf seemed bad to me at first, but it seems to be worth the splash, all the while providing decent sideboard options versatility with explosives, and it doesn't harm the manbase all that bad, as you can always fetch basics if you are expecting manabase hate.

The manabase may also seem a little odd, but it is efficient, and keeps you from getting color screwed off of magus/moon, which is gaining popularity, and you cannot afford not having access to all of your colors (well, WB for Vcate).

I kinda wish I didn't trade off my sinkholes, I should probably but some new ones soon.

You don't play Hymn to Tourach, it is motivated or you simply forgot it?
On my own, i' ve played deadguy in a 50 people tuornament placing out of top8 by rating, and loosing 2 games in swiss each on 2-1 and each by a topdeck of Back to Basic, that completely shut me down and i wasn't able to draw fetchalnds and\or basics. Here is the decklist:

// Lands
1 [ON] Polluted Delta
4 [ON] Bloodstained Mire
3 [A] Bayou
3 [B] Scrubland
3 [TE] Wasteland
4 [ON] Windswept Heath
1 [CS] Snow-Covered Plains
2 [CS] Snow-Covered Swamp

// Creatures
4 [FUT] Tarmogoyf
4 [RAV] Dark Confidant
3 [TO] Nantuko Shade
2 [10E] Hypnotic Specter
2 [LRW] Shriekmaw

// Spells
4 [IA] Swords to Plowshares
4 [AP] Vindicate
4 [B] Sinkhole
4 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [FE] Hymn to Tourach (4)
4 [MM] Dark Ritual

// Sideboard
SB: 1 [LRW] Shriekmaw
SB: 3 [AP] Pernicious Deed
SB: 3 [OD] Aegis of Honor
SB: 1 [TE] Warmth
SB: 2 [TE] Perish
SB: 1 [RAV] Darkblast
SB: 4 [GP] Leyline of the Void

The problems I see with that previous list:

1. it has 3 basic lands: If you noticed, mine runs 6, which I think is the minimum, as you already always want access to BBGW, which is impossible off of only 3 lands.

2. If you are going to run hypnotic specter, run him as a four of... I know he starts to loose spunk as the game goes on, but he is awesome in the early turns (1,2,3, sometimes 4)... the reason he is a four of is because he can wreck oponents in the early game... it is the same premise as to why threshold runs 4 daze and not 2-3.

3. DON'T RUN HYMM, there is no reason to, you have access to better discard spells. Both of the better choices I chose to run are almost obvious, they are 1 mana less (ideal for a deck like this), they actually hit a target (unlike hymm, in which case you hope to hit what you want).

4. Shriekmaw is bad, there, I said it! Now, he isn't bad in all decks, he can be pretty good in some decks, however, when you flip him over to a DC and take 5 when your opponent has a black creature/artifact creature, or just has manlands or some nonsense, you will hate yourself, as you just lost the damage race to yourself.

EDIT:

5. Always run the full playset of wastelands, Jesus man!

I also think your sideboard needs some tuning, but that could be just me.

hymn is great for the bit of card advantage it gives, and is good at putting the opponent in topdeck sometimes. but I suppose you're right, when running confidant and specter (and 3 colors, since hitting BB turn 2 is a tad harder), thoughtseize + duress seems like it could be a better option and worth exploring

still, hymn isn't a bad option either.

oh and the SB does look a bit random, enginered plague is very good and you probably want 4 of them. I was looking for a witty way to retort at aegis of honor, but it actually looks like tech against burn decks, as you don't have many outs other than racing and the bobs, seizes and fetches makes it a lot easier for them (as if that was possible? autopilotburn has to be the easiest deck to play ever)

burn does run a very low land count though, occasionally with a quick start and some LD you can leave them boardless for you to kill them with any7 combination of your creatures... if it increases as a concern (don't know why it would), you can run COP: red or something to that extenet.