yep im running a Primeval Titan no other land search. Does Pithing Needle very effective sideboard in Sneak and Show Deck? How about vs Omni-Tel? is our only main solution is just to disrupt early?Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
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yep im running a Primeval Titan no other land search. Does Pithing Needle very effective sideboard in Sneak and Show Deck? How about vs Omni-Tel? is our only main solution is just to disrupt early?Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
^^ Wow dude! I thought you removed that during our last conversation? Involving 1 Karakas for Emrakul is not a good addition since we use RGB. Shriekmaw is nice but usually when Omni-Shows plays Show and Tell, they play Omniscience first to get an extra turn from Emrakul. Playing a lone Karakas might be too late since they play it again
Anyway, my SB now for this build are: - You might want to include Hymns if you want :laugh:
3 Duress
2 Hymn
3 Extirpate
2 Surgical
3 Carpet of Flowers
1 Damnation
1 Tsunami
I thought we were talking bout Sneak Show not OmniTell. In that case disrupting is your only way to prevent an omniscient emrakul, though in this instance Krosan Grip might be good as additional disruption.
after Omniscience is put via show and tell do i have the priority to Grip that enchantment before he/she can cast his spell freely?Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
Not unless you put a card in that has a triggered ability when it etb. Otherwise the stack is empty and the omniscience player has priority to play something before you get a chance to grip.
@ kabards and somethingdotdotdot: That's why I said it might be good as additional disruption: I'm still unfamiliar with how priority works in any TCG.
Cheatyface.dec definitely seems like an unwinnable matchup (2-8 to 0-10) even post board.
It is definitely a difficult match up. You need to play tight, and even then you may not win. pre board is porbably un winnable. Post board I think proactive disruption is best. K-Grip just does not seem that good vs them. I guess we do have a lot of ETB effects that can give us the ability to grip omni, but even then it is very situational
Has anyone actually have any luck with Carpet of Flowers? I just cut mine from the sideboard because I usually never need it. It has only been useful for me against RUG and Merfolk which I already do great against pre-board. Right now my SB is mostly hate for Show and Tell decks and Miracles.
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Extirpate
2x Memorized
2x Curse of Death's Hold (Goblins)
1x Faith Fetters
2x Angel of Despair
2x Pithing Needle (still need to test)
Also how many sac outlets should I be running? I am running GBW and most of the time I am waiting for a sac outlet.
Also it seems like Green Sun's isn't as power in the Rector version, at least not for me. I am thinking of putting in some Diabolic Intent instead since I need more sac outlets. Probably just do a 1 for 1 swap.
Last but not least:
Swords to Plowshares vs Innocent Blood?
Are you running B/G/W Nic Fit?Quote:
Originally Posted by CRich3
The best thing you can do against OmniTell is 4 x Angels of Despair/Oblivion Ring in the SB. It doesn't matter if it is on or off color, Omniscience and Show n Tell are unfair cards that require very specific hate. You don't need blue to play Mindbreak Trap in your SB, the same applies to Angel and Ring in a SnT infested meta.
Discard spells will not make-or-break the unfair matchups, they only grant additional turns for your non-existant threats to take away 20 life points. If you want to have a successful prison plan against those decks, I suggest Extirpate along with heavy spot discard.
@CRich3,
IB is always better than StP in Nic Fit IMO, especialy with Rector.
How many sac outlets are you running? I had the same problem a while back. Adding Diabolic Intent helped a lot both as a sac outlet and as a way to find answers. Currently I run:Quote:
Originally Posted by CRich3
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Diabolic Intent
2x Phyrexian Tower
4x Cabal Therapy
As for Zenith, I am running 3x Zenith and 1x Eladamri's Call. I like the call for a couple reasons: 1) it's instant. 2) it can find a non-green creature. I'm only running one Baneslayer; I think others like 2, so I consider the Call a psuedo-Baneslayer much of the time. I'm never sad to see it and it's great w/ Witness.
I am running the exact same minus the Intent (yet).Quote:
Originally Posted by slikwilly
@kabards yes I am running GBW Nic Fit.
Carpet is great against control, when your explorers are just bad for rampiong them. That is my main use for them.
Forgot to include Starved Rusalka. The effect is pretty poor, but it's cheap and zenithable.Quote:
Originally Posted by CRich3
Another option for vs Sneak Show is to use the sideboard for transformational into the traditional Rock, where you throw in some discard to buy additional turns then use Thalia as a tax (buy even more turns and negate Omniscience), Teeg back up, with KotR functioning as a fast clock with the ability to fetch up the miser Karakas/Maze of Ith.
That's the general strategy of Maverick/traditional Rock, as seen at the SCG Minneapolis finals of Rock vs OmniShow - http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...troy_thom.html
I haven't tried it, but it sounds pretty saucy to me...much better than relying on having hate in hand when the opponent goes to Show and Tell, which in my playtesting is not all that great.
Obviously you have to do stuff like take out Explorers, but I may test this out later.
Top 8'd all three prereleases this weekend. The important part: Midnight Friday, I'd snap-pre-regged for Golgari because I'm a hardcore G/B player (not just in legacy, I'm afraid). So I pick up my guild box, go and sit down and wait sleepily for them to say that we can open. I cracked the box, and open the following:
Guild pack: Abrupt Decay
Pack 1: Foil Abrupt Decay
I was a very, very happy person.
Anyway. I have 3 Decays after the weekend and will likely get my 4th out of boxes this weekend upcoming...as well as my 2nd Vraska (pulled one on Sunday). So I'll have ample amounts of the new stuff to really start messing around with for the BUG version, which is the version I still believe benefits far and away the most from Vraska and Decay.
I only actually got to play Vraska twice all day Sunday, across 6 rounds. The latter of these two appearances was completely meaningless, because she came down, Pulsed a blocker and I swung in for lethal. The first, however, she impressed me a bit more. She took out his 3/3 haste/lifelink puppy, and I left a dude back to protect her just in case. He passed without doing anything, I +1'd her, swung, he played the Carnival Hellsteed, tanked, and swung at me instead of killing Vraska. Next turn Vraska just pulsed his Hellsteed....so by not killing Vraska, he actually didn't save himself any value (Vraska lived at 1...which means I may have missed a turn of +1ing, not sure).
Tl;dr, the one time I actually got to really use her, she impressed me.
Now, for comments:
Rusalka <3
Megadeus is correct regarding Carpet of Flowers. Carpet and Explorer together make RUG impossible to lose as opposed to just a "favorable matchup." However, Carpet is far and away at its best in matchups like High Tide, Show and Tell, and Miracles -- the first two, you need every bit of mana you can get to keep up your barrage of hatred while they struggle to dig out (note that unless you're running Tsunami, boarding out 3 Explorers for 3 Carpets is correct vs High Tide). Show and Tell you don't care...you need as much acceleration as you can get to try to keep up with their Sol lands and Petals.
Miracles is far and away the most important of these cases, though...Stoneblade as well to a lesser extent. You really don't want to set off an Explorer vs these decks if you can help it. But without Explorer, our deck looks a lot more durdly. Carpet fixes this problem (also why Rector runs Sakura-Tribe Elders as a backup ramp source, Wood Elves in Scapewish, Coiling Oracle in BUG, etc). IMO, if you don't have Carpet in your board, you're going to struggle an awful lot vs Miracles, and that's the biggest single reason to run it at the moment (RUG being a close 2nd and S/T at 3rd). And yeah, I'll say again that you don't NEED it vs RUG...it's still a positive matchup. But if the best/most popular deck in the room is a literal bye for you, that's a pretty good place to be.
@CRich -- do you have Moat? If so, you don't really need the Curse of Death's Holds. Moat just kolds Goblins unless they're splashing green for Grip (and even then, they have to dig for it).
My Rector list runs the following as sac outlets:
4x Therapy
2x Tower
1x Intent
1x Rusalka (ergo, 4x Rusalka courtesy of 3 GSZ)
1x Nightmare
If you really need to crack Rector, Vindicating or Pulsing her is acceptable as well (+2). That gives me 14 effective sac outlets. I can't imagine needing any more than that. I used to have some problems with that as well, but once I added the Rusalka and the Intent, they went away. Rusalka was the big breakthrough, honestly. Being able to sacrifice something for 1GG is pretty sweet. Unlike Therapy/Nightmare/Intent, it also works well as Swords protection, since you can use it at instant speed.
Inquisitions should be Thoughtseizes if you're worried about Show and Tell, 100%. You don't care about lifeloss vs them, and if they have the awkward hand of like lands, cantrips, Omniscience, and Emrakul/Griselbrand (which they actually seem to keep fairly frequently), you want to be able to take Omniscience (ideally) or their creature (2nd ideally), so that you can Extirpate that bullshit and be done with it. Inquisition only really hits Show and Tell in that matchup. As for Miracles, Inquisition hits more, but again, you don't really care about your life total in that matchup.
---------------------
It's been a while since I've actually posted any lists or reports or anything. I'll be going to Mythic on Saturday, so hopefully I'll have some stuff for you guys then.
are you going with rector list?Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
On the subject of Carpet of Flowers,
I haven't loved it except for the Miracles matchup. It gets killed by Deed so often =(. I've been considering taking it out of my SB because I think Abrupt Decay is going to poop on Counterbalance and the like when the metagame shifts.
The RUG matchup is already so good and SnT matchup is already so bad. I'm not relying on Carpet for SnT. I'd rather board in 4 Durress and 3 or 4 Extirpate/Surgical.
But maybe I'm doing it wrong.
@Arianarhood: You bastard. I got Golgari as well and I pulled 3 Selesnya bombs and 1 copy of that enchantment that lets you tap a land and draw a card. Abrupt Decay, oh how I would loathe spending $20 for a copy.
Arianrhod, what's your current bug list look like now?
Those of you playing GBW Rock style, has anyone else done much testing with Armada Wurm?
I've only had a chance to use him once and normally I find myself wanting Sigarda/Thrun/Thragtusk to close out the deal.
On paper Armada Wurm looks perfect to fill that Primeval/Grave Titan slot, but in practice I find I'm just not using him very much.
Anyone with an opinion?
@Litenkatt -- I'm actually going to be running Scapewish, while Steve (Maverick777) borrows my Rector list. He's going to be taking it to SCG Providence, which I regrettably cannot attend. So he's gonna go kick ass with it instead. If I feel spicy I might run BUG instead of Scapewish, but we'll see how I feel the morning of. I really want to top 8 this one so I can bring home a pair of Goyfs...because I've got a free Legacy at my local on Sunday that I want to play Shardless BUG at (for no other reason than that it's something different and looks fun as hell). I also currently own 0 Goyfs, although I can borrow two from a friend (ergo, I need to win 2)
@Papyrus (Resisting the urge to say G-pap :P) -- It does die to Deed a lot, and honestly, it can be a pretty skill-instensive decision sometimes when to blow Deed vs when you need to keep your Carpet around. More usually, though, Carpet accels you to the point where you don't care if it dies.
IMO, for as long as Legacy is having a love affair with soft counters like Spell Pierce and Daze, Carpet of Flowers will continue to be an allstar. It completely negates those cards, for free every turn. Also, don't forget that you can use it as a green Dark Ritual -- play it main phase 1, then declare attacks. At the beginning of main phase 2, Carpet of Flowers will trigger. I've used this trick many, many times to cheat out things that I otherwise couldn't cast.
Duress and Extirpate are fine cards against Show and Tell, but I would much rather accelerate into a faster Cranial Extraction in the matchup. I'll just cite personal preference here and move on, as I don't think that one option is strictly better than the other. There are hands that Duress + Extirpate will just slaughter, and there are hands that Cranial Extraction will beat that Duress wouldn't do anything to. I probably lean harder on Therapy than I really should, if I'm being honest, which is probably a shortcoming as a player. At the same time, Nic Fit is a ramp/control deck with a combo finish (some versions). We get to use some horrifically powerful cards that nobody else touches because of mana cost, and a lot of times, people have no idea how to play around those cards. Show and Tell players have to know how to deal with Thoughtseize, because Esperblade is a thing. They don't, however, have any idea how to deal with a resolved Cranial Extraction.
There are certainly arguments on the Duress side of things, but I'll stick with my Carpets for now. Disclaimer: I do believe that the time is coming in the meta where Carpet will get pushed out, temporarily at least. I see RUG take a nosedive in popularity soon thanks to Supreme Verdict. Wrath of God hasn't been playable in a long time because it always just gets Dazed or Pierced. But now that you can Wrath and give no fucks, players and decks both are going to have to accept the fact that Wrath of God is a card, and respect it. IMO, RUG loses the most both from Verdict existing, -and- because Verdict will likely cause a meta shift towards decks that are inherently hostile to RUG in the first place. Once this happens, I will be comfortable adopting other sideboard options in place of Carpet. Until then, I'll continue to enjoy my byes.
While we're talking limited, too, my deck was Sunday was sickkkkkk. It was this awesome Golgari/Selesnya hybrid. Like, I opened a Decay and a Vraska for Golgari, and then the land that makes an 8/8 and the enchantment that Populates on upkeep for free every turn. Deck was ridiculous. I only lost one match....my deck durdled g1, I slaughtered him g2, and then g3 he had t4 Rakdos into t5 Carnival Hellsteed + like 2 other creatures. Sooooo awkward.
As for Armada Wurm, I think he replaces Grave Titan in GBW Rock-style, and does nothing else. You probably get to cut Fierce Empath if you were running it, because you have a really solid Zenithable finisher. That leaves Sun Titan dangling, but you can probably find him with Tops + shuffles by the time you need him, or you can run a Call or an Intent to tutor him up.
@Something... -- I'll post it up sometime this afternoon. I actually need to tinker with it a bit before posting, as it's not quite where I want it to be yet. Then Saturday night once I'm back from Mythic I'll try to get up a tournament report complete with the latest lists for Scapewish and Rector.
@Arianarhood
I neglected to mention that I also board in 2x Memoricide/Cranial split against SnT. It's still not a great matchup but I see what you're getting at with Carpet of Flowers making Mem/Cran that much better in SnT. I'll have to try it out instead of relying on Vet/Cabal like I have been.
I never ran Sun Titan to begin with. I played GB until Sigarda came out. Now that I'm playing GBW, I've never found myself needing the extra recurrance, between two Eternal Witnesses, Swords, Abrupt Decay, and Pulse.
If Sun Titan had green in it, I'd think about throwing it into Armada Wurm's slot to get another utility / beatstick but I'm not sure if I'd run it with my list because I'd have to put in a Fierce Empath.
Here's my starting point for BUG. Keep in mind that this is rough and untested:
4x Veteran Explorer
3x Coiling Oracle
2x Eternal Witness
1x Thragtusk
1x Sphinx of Uthuun
2x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2x Vraska the Unseen
1x Garruk, Primal Hunter
4x Pernicious Deed
1x Future Sight
1x Recurring Nightmare
2x Abrupt Decay
4x Brainstorm
3x Counterspell
2x Sensei's Divining Top
4x Cabal Therapy
2x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Volrath's Stronghold
1x Phyrexian Tower
3x Bayou
2x Tropical Island
1x Underground Sea
3x Forest
3x Island
2x Swamp
3x Misty Rainforest
3x Verdant Catacombs
//SB
4x Flusterstorm
3x Sower of Temptation
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide
2x Infest
2x Kitchen Finks
I'm also toying with the idea of trying to abuse Merchant Scroll, since it's very underplayed IMO. I mean, it's good enough to be restricted in vintage, so it seems like it should be better in legacy. Using Scoll would let us run 1 Counterspell, 1 Gifts, 8 Brainstorms, etc. Sphinx's Revelation is a particularly interesting example, although the W in its cost would probably be annoying. It's just an idea.
Speaking of ideas, another one I had for BUG was running baby [cards]Jace Beleren[/b]. If you drop baby Jace on t2 after an Explorer/Therapy, you're going to be stupidly far ahead, and it's a preemptive answer to Mind-Sculptor. I dunno. It's a thought that I'll probably experiment with at some point.
Vintage has Ancestral so that comparison is flawed. Anyway. I think you should give the Trinket Mage toolbox a try. It makes it so that Primeval Titan becomes a relevant finisher by grabbing Ruins/Stronghold that you can also GSZ for (unlike Sphinx).
If you insist on not giving it a shot and you don't play GSZ there is absolutely no reason to run anything less than 4 Shardless Agents.
I really love Shardless Agent, but as my BUG list is now, i wouldn't know how to fit him in, so i'm not sure if he needs to be in every non-GSZ BUG list.
I have a hard time justifying Green Sun in BUG versions because BUG tends to run dramatically fewer creatures (or Green creatures, at least) than other versions. I do love me some Trinket Mage, but I feel like there's just no room. By the time you're done with the core of Explorer, Therapy, Deed, Brainstorm, Top, there's so little flex room left. Space is just a huge problem for the BUG versions, I feel.
I know that I want to abuse the everloving hell out of Future Sight, and I know that the BUG version theoretically should be the combo-killer out of the family, due to things like Flusterstorm and Sower of Temptation. Like I said, this list is a very rough starting point, and will probably change a lot before I'm actually happy with it.
Vintage does have Ancestral, I fully grant that. But Scroll is still a 2-drop tutor for any blue instant. I mean, sure, it's a little restrictive, but it's a hell of a powerful tutor -- especially when you consider some of the cards that are blue and instant. I'm certainly not saying that it's the best option, but it's worthy of exploration, I feel.
My BUG list plays 4 GSZ, a Trinket package, and 5 PWs. I have foregone Pulses/Decays because, well, I can just nuke everything, all the time...
Creatures (12)
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Eternal Witness
2 Trinket Mage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thragtusk
1 Acidic Slime
1 Primeval Titan
Spells (25)
4 Brainstorm
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Pernicious Deed
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Executioner's Capsule
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Lands (23)
1 Academy Ruins
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Misty Rainforest
2 Bayou
2 Tropical island
1 Underground Sea
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
Sideboard (15)
1 Selkie Hedge-Mage
1 Chalice of the Void
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Pithing Needle
3 Engineered Plague
4 Thoughtseize
4 Negate
If I were to include a "Vindicate" affect to this list, I would do so in the form of a singleton Vraska. Perhaps -1 Liliana, +1 Vraska.
Also, I am really glad that Tao emerged from the deep with his Trinket package, it's very smooth. That singleton Slime is also a life-saver and reminds me of when I played GBW Nic Fit when I had Volrath Tower, Witness, and Vindicate online. Such a deadly looper and nifty surprise on SnT -> Omniscience.
4 Veteran Explorer
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Starved Rusalka
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Primeval Titan
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Intuition
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Surgical Extraction
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Pernicious Deed
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Vraska, the Unseen
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Verdant Catacombs
3 Polluted Delta
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
3 Forest
2 Swamp
2 Island
Cabal Therapy Flashback + Surgical Extraction Phyrexian Manacost = Munchkin-Memoricide.
I am jealous though I did manage to crack a single Abrupt Decay in my one and only prerelease. I then proceeded to take a decent pool and build a terrible deck out of it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
At SCG Madison I played the Legacy challenge on Saturday. At the time I was running Deadguy and ran into a Nic Fit player (who I now know to be jbone). He played an Explorer, I put him on Nic Fit and think to myself, "Great. I've got like 3 basics, he's got a bunch of bombs to ramp in to." I play out a Bitterblossom, he plays out a second Explorer. At this point I figure I can just fly over him, but I better do it fast before bombs start dropping so I play a second Bitterblossom.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
You can see where this is going. He then proceeds to Pulse my Bitterblossoms. Whoops. Hilarity ensues if you are jbone as he goes on to crush me.
After the game he told me he'd planned on Pulsing the Explorers on his turn. So yeah, Pulsing/Vindicating your dudes? Perfectly okay. So is punishing people who foolishly play out cards :)
Isn't that a meta shift that's a bit bad for us? Verdict pushes down Merfolk and RUG which are decks we can deal with handily. Something has to fill that void and it probably isn't Miracles because of Abrupt Decay. Am I missing something or is Goblins looking pretty good? Sure both Decay and Verdict hit them, but they manage pretty good CA through Ringleader and Krenko to fight through wipes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
BoP is pretty bad for us. Deed hoses it and it stinks w/o an equipment to slap on it in the mid- to late-game. There are any number of alternative ramp sources which are all better for us that Arianrhod spelled out earlier today since they net a land (or card).Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
Took another first place with BUG Fit. The list I used is posted above.
1-1-1 vs. OmniTell (we timed but I had it in the bag)
Lost G1 but dominated the following games. Negates and Thoughtseizes allows me to set up a lock on the game (a combination of Pithing + Capsule or Liliana/Jace with Negate backup).
2-0 vs. Zoo
Thragtusk and Ooze get there. Wiped 2 Goyf and 3 Qasali with a single therapy during a game.
2-0 vs. Merfolk
Single Garruk after a mull to 5 stalls to 7 X 6/6 Wurms. Volrath Tower + Thragtusk loop in G2.
2-1 vs. DnT
Lose G1 to a greedy 1 land/1 Brainstorm hand, I fail to find lands and I scoop to Karakas/Mangara. Recurring Deeds along with EE and Plagues makes it impossible for my opponent to stick anything in G2 and 3.
@qweerios: 4 GSZ seems good. Also the Executioner's Capsule seems right, I have to agree. But I really don't like the choice of 0 Abrupt Decay. And even though Spot Removal is currently not that great in Legacy, Decay fills the curve so well while being able to dogde Spell Snare. And getting rid of Counterbalance is what currently makes it a must-play imo, at least as a 2-off.
Man, I haven't seen anyone use Spell Snare in a good 6 months... As it is now, I prefer Liliana to Decay. I get more value out of her than a straight 1 for 1.
I've seen people use Spell Snare.....in vintage. (Seriously, it's soooooo good right now in that format). But Qweerios is right -- I haven't seen a Snare in legacy in a long-ass time. Not really sure there's pressing need for it to come back, either -- Counterbalance is around, but it's hardly dominating.
@Slikwilly -- Birds is fine in BUG versions (as is Hierarch). BUG needs some kind of mana dork, because they need a way to make blue mana without actually fetching an island, or else Merfolk will eat their soul. Being able to block the fishmen while building up mana to play/crack Deed is a big deal in the matchup. I resist playing BoP/Hierarch in other versions of the deck, but it's fine in BUG. It's just a situational choice.
And yeah, I'm going to miss having RUG around to shit on, but we'll adapt.
I think there are two -huge- gainers from RtR: BUG Control (non-Explorer, specifically), and U/W traditional control/Landstill. I'm not sure Verdict/Sphere are good enough to resurrect Standstill as a card, but they are awfully good.
Now -- both of these decks (should) shit on RUG in its current incarnation. More importantly as far we're concerned, they should shit on Show and Tell even harder. BUG has always been good vs combo IF it runs Goyf. Discard + counter + clock is something that combo just folds to. U/W will have Detention Spheres to nuke things off of Show, uncounterable sweepers to kill Grisel/Emrakul, and a ton of more situational options alongside lots of countermagic. They also have Terminus still, which means they'll have likely somewhere around 6 sweepers (3/3 or 4/2, I'd imagine). Both of these are also good vs Maverick, because they have a pisston of sweepers. Maverick -can- rely on Tsunami/Choke, however, which means that, along with Omniscience and Detention Sphere, Disenchant/Krosan Grip should gain in market share -- even more so if the U/W deck chooses Stoneforge.
Goblins seems fine vs BUG, but they're going to struggle vs U/W. U/W can bring all the spot removal, combined with sweepers and potential Moats. One thing that gives me pause about the matchup, though, is something that Finn pointed out in the DnT thread on Salvation -- Verdict's mana cost. 1WWU is pretty specific, and vulnerable to Waste/Port. BUG has always, always, always had trouble with its mana base as well, so Rishadan Port seems like a good gainer in the meta.
As for where that leaves us....well. BUG is an easy matchup for us, as is most varieties of U/W.dec. I don't know what exactly these lumbering U/W control decks will look like, so I can't say how best to attack them as yet, but Nic Fit's level of recursion (esp. Nightmare) is something that seems like it would be pretty boss vs the way their deck will likely be set up. They'll also likely have few win conditions, which means Cranial Extraction is an all-star (same with BUG). Phyrexian Arena may get bumped up in number, or additional copies in the board at least, as Arena tends to win those matchups by itself. Detention Sphere is nothing that we need to worry about, as it can get Deed/Pulse/Decay/Qasali/Sliver/Vindicate/Vraska/whatever out of the way. Rector is fine vs Goblins, thanks to Moat -- not sure how other versions fare. Scapewish is probably fine, since it can just combo out while chumping with accelerators.
Or, it might be that I don't have enough faith in RUG as a bad guy, and maybe it'll adapt and be fine. Or maybe people won't actually do the work of rebuilding BUG and U/W to make the meta shift happen. It's all theory and conjecture. If RUG/Maverick get pushed out and the meta shifts, though, I certainly don't think it's the end of the world for us. We can literally tune our deck to beat anything. The Explorer/Therapy engine is inherently good, IMO, and not merely good vs a certain meta. Hell, the deck in its modern form was born during the Misstep era. If it survived that, and it survived the high tide of Show and Tell, we can survive whatever is coming.
Regarding the BUG fit list... How often do you guys mulligan a hand with no explorer? Would you keep a hand with therapy, land, land, and no creatures? Do you always try to have therapy + 1 or 2 drop creature to abuse it?
I think I'm playing the deck wrong. lol
Well, in my list, I generally keep the following hands:
1 Vet + 1 Sac Outlet + 1-3 Land + 2-4 Else (sac outlet includes GSZ for Rusalka as well)
1 Birds + 1-3 Land + 3-5 Else (Again, includes GSZ for Birds as well, though in that instance Else would also not include any sac outlets)
Re: mulligan decisions.Quote:
Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner
I'm on GBW rockstyle Nic Fit for a few months now and have been learning the hard way that one (me) should nearly never keep a one-lander no matter what. Especially 1 land, explorer, (possible) sac outlet bit me in the tail more often than I'd like to admit. You open yourself to Stifle, Wasteland, Counters, Swords/Path in way one often cannot recover from, IMHO. I want to make it to mid/late game and that is not the way to go.
Rare occasion where one landers work out for me, involves: -postboard game -basic land -sensei's divining top -1cc action (carpet, sword, discard and the like).
Disclaimer: and even that setting came back to haunt me recently. On a mulligan to six postboard vs Stoneblade I kept basic land, SDT, SDT, three other cards. My opponent forced both tops on T1 and T2 respectively, gg.
I've gotten a lot ballsier with my hands that I keep on the draw, and more often than not it pays off. I usually snap keep anything with a basic (or a fetch) and a Top. Some hands are obvious (land land Explorer Therapy XXX win?). But I tend to experiment a lot. It depends on what I'm up against, too. If I'm playing vs like Gobs or Fish, I'll keep a mono Forest + Explorer hand, because I can rely on my opponents' attack phase to set it off. I'll try to remember better what hands I actually keep, because to be honest I just kind of do it and don't think much about it afterwards.
But yeah, it depends a ton whether you're on the play or on the draw.
If I am playing against any deck that has to attack to beat me, I will usually keep the one land explorer hand. Eventually it will trigger, and once it does. Oh man. Of course that is also if they dont run white. Because STP is a Bitch.
Im currently Taking sample hands while I solitaire and Ill post whether or not I keep (keep in mind I am playing GB)
Hand 1: Forest, Swamp, 2x Verdant Catacombs, Eternal Witness, Maelstrom Pulse, SDT
I will probably keep this more than 60% of the time G1 just because of SDT and Witness. The pulse is nice catch all removal. G2 I would keep this if I were playing against most non combo decks. Probably mull against tribal.
Hand 2: 2x Swamp, Verdant Catacombs, Pernicious Deed, maelstrom Pulse, Explorer, natures Lore
G1 I will almost always keep this hand. I would open by fetching for a forest and playing the explorer. G2 again I will keep it if I were against any non combo deck (maybe even keep it vs belcher)
Hand 3: 2x Forest, Swamp, Bayou, Dryad Arbor, SDT, Maelstrom Pulse
Meh... dryad arbor in the opener always makes me cringe. SDT is a redeeming factor. More than likely I would keep, but I doubt it would be right. Against control G@ I may keep it, but against anything else I mull.
Hand 4: 2x Forest, Swamp, Treetop Village, 2x GSZ, Garruk, Primal Hunter
Ill probably keep G1. Having 2 GSZ is awesome. G2 Its tough. having no removal against creature decks seems bad.
Hand 5: Forest, Verdant Catacombs, 2x Pernicious Deed, E Witness, SDT, Innocent blood
Again, I probably keep it, but it doesnt mean that it is right. If I never draw land then I lose without a fight. Having 2 deeds and having SDT makes me want to keep it though.
Thinking about it, this is with only 3 explorers in my deck due to dropping my deck in a cup of water last night (dont ask). Luckily double sleeves! Sadly one man didnt ,make it