That deck is probably in the wrong forum at this point. :tongue:
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That deck is probably in the wrong forum at this point. :tongue:
This reminds me of that Combo Loam deck that did well at an SCG several years ago. I need just 1 more Chains and the x2 Word of Command for the board to test it. You don't want smallpox mainboard though? I would likely drop some number of mox diamond, and entomb/crop rotation. Just adds a lot of do nothing air to the deck other than helping to find combo pieces. If your opponent plays pithing needle on stage then those cards are almost dead cards since you wont need to tutor up lands as much. I think for this style deck you are better off running Decay or smallpox in the main board and just play for the long and grindy game. Your opponent won't have brainstorm and ponder to help filter their draws. The list I saw also ran dark confidant for additional card advantage without drawing cards. I think that could be an option as well to get ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
This is the link to the deck that I was referring to. It is Jund though
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deck...p?DeckID=54216
I think I have most of that maybe I'll try it. Not sure I like burning wish, seems slow and not sure the targets are large enough impact.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
I love smallpox, obviously, I just don't think there is enough room and I'd rather have the combo win of dark depths or the combo lock of chains/anvil game 1 then side into a more grindy control deck for game 2 when they bring in their answers for the combo. As it is I am not sure I'm playing enough lands, my first list had 4 smallpox, and they got cut for more lands.
You are running 33, plus mox diamond, exploration and loam. It is likely enough/too many lands. You have 8 that don't tap for mana and you have bog which is best crop rotated for when needed. I honestly think it would be better to cut back on the stage/depths combo and maze of ith since you are running 3 crop rotate and 2 entomb. You have enough tutors to make it easier to find these things. You could easily slot a couple decay and smallpox into those slots. I like the burning wish package since it means you can answer more pre-board and you also have access to winds of change to put your opponent in that place where they have 0 cards in hand and the chains/anvil combo literally makes it impossible for most decks to ever actually have cards in hand.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Deepwood Legate have two abilities i like. Against some opponents he is free to cast and versus others he is hard counter.
Right, cc is four which make it harder to remove him too.
ha ha ha, cool!..i'm surprised i haven't seen this one..can't wait to drop this on my first turn against a green deck. Don't care if I win I just want to pull it off. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
personally though i'd rather run nantuko shade or even the classic order of the ebon hand or knights of stromgald(coz o' the protection from white ability)..
the art looks more like a zombie than a shade though..
You lost me at "harder to remove him". :really: Might make a hilarious sideboard against anything with forests, but I figure Nantuko Shade would be the automatic go to card for pumpable creatures. He eats Goyfs for a living.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
i think he meant its "unabruptdecayeable" or counterbalance doesn't hit it easily..Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
i like the card but i think its outclassed by many other things that we don't even use..
It is safe from Abrupt Decay because of cc of four. It is also hard to Daze since you cast it for free vs UGR. Basically it is only vulnerable to StP and Terminus. A well timed lightning bolt can mess things up, but then I like to play with Chalice of the Void in the main deck. Chalice and Legate on turn two seems nice:-D
Yeah, i looked at Nantuko Shade, but think it has a vulnerability window if cast early, because of casting cost.Quote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
I see. Sometimes I forget about people and their metas. A meta with plenty o' Green will definitely give that Shady Legate something to work with. I run Innocent Bloods, Smallpox, and 2 POX so normal creatures just can't stick around for me in my games. At times I forget our 'ultimate goal' is card advantage and we shouldn't be losing spells and resources as much as our opponent is.
This is the reason why I dropped some Dark Rituals. Top decking them would have been awesome if there was a Shade version of Nether Spirit but since there isn't, I'm running them less. What's more, I don't fight decks that face blast you in 2 turns. Meta got slower for some reason (MIRACLES cough*).
Only other good Card Advantage spell I've seen is Bottled Cloister. Very tempted to just go "Quad Laser" and run 4 Pox and 4 of the vast majority of cards. Still haven't found a trader for a Tabernacle at Pendrall Vale. Damn it'd be sweet backed by Urborg and Wastelands.
Speaking about card advantage....
Toil // Trouble
I am not much for the crappy black "draw two"'s but i like the Trouble effect (as a novice i tried playing Storm Seeker). But, nah. Not good enough :-/
wow, storm seeker..haven't seen that in ages, also sudden impact..Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
its not that its not good enough, the problem is that the "trouble half" is a non-bo with our deck, ahem, liliana, hymn, etc..
this could be nice in a black/red land destruction deck though..just not sure how competitive such a deck would be against the top tiers..
Rakdos Land Destruction Pox has access to Dreadbore which would probably be the most powerful removal in da universe if it was instant speed [lolz]. You also get Terminate and Rain of Salt if you're really gunning for LD. Only reason I don't build it is the dual lands. Mono-B has Smother and Hero's Fall but they're inferior to the ones I've mentioned.
You also get access to stupid strong cards like Goblin Deathraiders
Is Death Raiders that good?
I'd rather play Spike Jester over Goblin Deathraider. But would never play either in a pox deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Well, Spike Jester would be nice against Miracles.
The B/R Land Killer deck I had [not pox] used the Death Raiders as cannon fodder for a Mortivore [lolz] and allowed for strong hits by using removal on blockers and letting the trample through.
Granted, I too wouldn't use it in Pox but as example, B/R has some of the best power to toughness for the CMC around. A super aggressive Pox blended with Red lightning could work, but for now, the only splashes that placed are B/G and B/W. I'd laugh if a B/U Pox worked some magic but that's probably the least likely to work.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
There's two blue version one: bug basically, shardless pox with abrupt decay, brainstorm and ofc shardless agent as only splash. The other is straight B/U and splashes for snapcaster (3) and jace, vryn's prodigy (4) only for a extra 7 effects of your best current ld spell. I've seen these versions and they are basically much weaker to resolved spells since they play less actual effects of sacrifice effects.
I've seen it 3-1 in our local league but the pox deck with greatest result here is probablly B/G pox.
I like the idea of running UB where you get ancestral, stifle, maybe some force post board if you're against fast combo. Jace, the Mind Sculptor seems like fun in that, but jace, vryns prodigy is likely better for what he does when flipped. Overall I like the idea of Ashiok over Jace if you really want to go UB.
Dark Depths. Enough said.
They also ran stifle and flusterstorm for sideboard.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
The obvious upside with jace, vryn's prodigy is that he doesn't die when flipped to smallpox
I found this interesting little card Runeflare trap.
In BR Chalice build against Miracles, perhaps. It dodges both counterbalance and my own chalice. Trigger when the opponent plays his Jace.
Who is they? This UB pox list sounds awesome!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxboy
During the Cruise era I was messing around with U/B pox for Snapcaster, Stifle, Daze, and Treasure Cruise. It was one of the most fun decks I've ever played in my entire magic career.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
I toyed with a list on this forum last year, I loved the snapcaster sinkhole plan, and the interaction with cabal therapy. I made a play of snapcaster, target smallpox, flash back cabal therapy sacking snapcaster then flashback smallpox. I think it could be better now that flip jace is a thing, another way to replay smallpox and sinkholes is brutal.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
I do not know what list is being discussed, mine was never posted for any events I played in.
Seems like some very cool plays. Is there a card in black that can be abused with Jace minus ability since its not technically "flashback"? For example, can cast invigorate for alternate cost out of the graveyard with a Jace minus.
Since U/B Pox is being discussed, I saw this online recently - http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=12272&d=270714&f=LE
I saw that list. I don't know if I like calling it pox just because it runs smallpox out of the board. I definitely think the smallpox could have been in the main. Force could probably come out of the board vs fast combo which we have a fair match up against already if we can fire off discard.
Even the spell pierce and dismember or black sun's zenith could be the 4 Smallpox
True, we shouldn't be discussing builds without Pox spells in the main. Then the thread would lose all meaning...:cry:
Fair enough sarcasm. It could be a great starting point to making something UB pox.
Are you serious? Obviously, anyone posting here has some affinity for the namesake card, but decks evolve over time. a UB prison / resource denial deck would still belong here IMO. Its running Sinkhole main!!! Any sinkhole deck belongs here.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
His comment was sarcasm.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
My main issue with the deck is the fact that it has a delver style to it and should likely be running delver. In which case it should be in the delver thread. There are certainly things we could take from it though.
Things I like in that list provided by running blue
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver - mills out and takes opponents creatures
Stifle - Great form of mana denial
Brainstorm - Good card selection spell to help smooth the road to victory
Snapcaster Mage - Buy back stifle, sinkhole, etc
Things I don't like
Spell pierce - Really more for dedicated tempo strategies that want to close a game quick and can't really fight a long fight, not great with liliana
Force of Will - Card disadvantage, again not great alongside liliana
For the cards I don't like I would love to see hymn to tourach or smallpox in the main as they play to our game plan much better and don't require being held for a reactive game plan.
A local at my legacy tournament in Stockholm, with a great love for land destruction. I could ask him for a list but from what I know he doesn't hang around the forums so other then his real name which I won't tell :tongue: I can't tell more for the moment, met him yesterday in the tourney and he's still brewing all kind of things.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
UB is fine. If it wins or doesn't win, as long as it's got Pox as the theme, it's fine. When it's in the sideboard, that means Pox isn't the main theme anymore. If people are going to start posting decks with no Smallpox, or Poxes in it, then again, shouldn't it be in another thread?
How can we discuss improving a deck based on Poxing when we remove the namesake card? :confused:
Claymore mentioned a "Poxless" pox deck and that made me cringe, but it had 4 Smallpox and no Big Pox. That's still a Pox deck cause the overall goal of card advantage through symmetrical sacrificing is there.
Frankly, if you can pull off a Death Cloud deck, it would be 'similar' to Pox but who'd run Death Cloud over Smallpox given the cmc?
I think the reason why U doesn't work with Pox is that the color's advantages cancel each other out. Pox wants to hit top deck but doesn't want to draw excess cards. Brainstorm doesn't help you 'recover' from a Smallpox and doesn't disrupt our enemy in any way shape or form. The only trick idea I liked was Shadow of Doubt but mono-B can run it anyway. I pitched a CounterBalance idea but a Counter Balanced Pox would end up defeating itself due to two different card advantage mechanics causing a lack of deck focus.
After doing some quick checking, some B/U cards for a milling focus on Pox may work:
Mind Funeral: for a deck hellbent on blowing up and denying mana, this maybe the most stupidly powerful card ever... Backed by Extirpating fetchlands and non-basics, this could be quite anger-inducing.
Mind Grind: a worse version of Funeral, but probably fatal late game backed by Dark Rituals.
Paranoid Delusions: since it's not an enchantment, could it be used on say, a Mishra's Factory? That'd be goofy, but not efficient I'm sure.
Lim Dul's Vault: combo Pox?
Glimpse the Unthinkable: right before Mind Funerals...
Dream Salvage: Draw extra cards using Liliana's +1?
Diabolic Vision: Probably not good since it's a 5 card version of Brainstorm for slower speed and 2x cmc.
Consult the Necrosages: seems like great utility.
I'd consider running Nemesis of Reason cause of how epic the flavor and feel of the card is, but not as a 4 of obviously.
Problem is getting the Underground Seas and corresponding fetches. I myself can't build this deck but this could be a great starting point for some that want something different.
Mind funeral would be great against belcher if you can take a turn and power it out with dark ritual.Quote:
Originally Posted by OmniStrata
Not sure about the other options as far as competitive. I know my shardless pox build is sweet but it runs life from the loam as well as brainstorm and ancestral. It's quite a different animal though
If I was playing UB pox I would certainly not play cards like Force of Will or Spell Pierce. Things I envision blue offering:
JTMS - Do I need to say anything?
Snapcaster Mage - I would only run him if I was also playing therapy, as snapcaster mage + innocent blood / smallpox is quite a nonbo.
Flip Jace - provides filtering effect on the front and CA on the back. Only problem is he may turn on game 1 removal from an opponent
Brainstorm/Ponder. Ponder seems like a perfect card when we get into top deck mode.
Stifle - Great compliment to LD element
Visions - Question is, is this card good enough without cascaders
I agree very much with your accessment.Quote:
Originally Posted by rlesko
With regards to visions I think it fits perfect for us. If we suspend turn 1 we get the value turn 5. Right about the time we generally have played out our hand and are ready to go with some new fresh cards so long as we have a way to draw them. Likely too slow vs fast combo but open up an easy 4 slots for boarding.