Ok my friend ill try 10 discard 10 removal without mother... ill test it one week and then... hopefully ill be convinced :) discard = 4 inqui 4 hymn 2 duress removal = 4 stp 4 vindicate 2 ghastly demise
Greetings
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Ok my friend ill try 10 discard 10 removal without mother... ill test it one week and then... hopefully ill be convinced :) discard = 4 inqui 4 hymn 2 duress removal = 4 stp 4 vindicate 2 ghastly demise
Greetings
Yeah, I like discard more ( at least in my meta it has been better )
My build is a bit weird, but I run 4 Thoughtseize + 4 Hymn + 2 Kozilek I.
Test it out and let me know what you think ( Also let us know against which decks did you test ), btw, I run 3 Gatekeeper of Malakir + 4 StP and I also have 1 go for the throat ... ( which I may replace for +1 Kozilek or something else )
Cheers :^)
To keep it as easy as possible Ill start posting my deck
4 Gatekeeper
4 Vampire Nighthawk
4 Mother of Runes
4 Dark Confidant
2 Jotun Grunt
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Vindicate
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Ghastly Demise
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
OK thats the deck im running atm
and im testing it mainly vs: GW Aggro and Affinity - sometimes vs GWB DnT and Rock and Landstill
What would you change Mother of Runes with?
Would you keep Ghastly Demise while running Jotuns?
Greetings
Yeah, i tried my deck with mother.
And i have to say without mother im better with.
I'm playing dark rituals instead.
Btw.
My removals are 3 gatekeeper,4 StoP, 3 Vindicate (sideboard 3 diabolic edict )
Discard: 4 hymn, 3 duress, 2 IoK
this is a nice number of discard i think.
I've got a lot of first turn discard + Bob with ritual.
But as you said. Try it end show us your results. I'm interested in.
I'm actually trying it with 3 Bitterblossoms and 3 mirran crusader.
And it's nice to have a double sword effect.
Then Id love to have your meta... in my meta its like that: If you dont use your discard spells in the first 4 turns the enemy played all his hand and discards are a dumb topdeck - then....
so failure....
and...you are really ok with 4 stp and 4 vindicate? + 3 gatekeeper - i mean i run a gatekeeper more + 4 ghastly demise and sometimes i cant stop the waves of enemies.... hmmm
is there any matchup analysis for deadguy?
How about playing Smother as removal 12-16? and 4 discard^^ ill try
Greetings
Been quite fine with just 4 Thoughtseizes, 4 Tidehollow Sculler, 4 swords and 2 vindicates in my Vial version. Got 3 Perish in the board for the decks with majority of green creatures. Against Merfolk and Goblins, Jitte and Sword of Fire and Ice can handle the extra creatures.
I dont like having to much maindecked Creature removal tbh. If you for some reason would face combo you got so many dead cards in your deck wich you probly cant even board out in thoes matchups. Extra removal i would have put thoes into the board tbh.
TBH Im really tempted to try out the Chrom Mox version as it can go t1 BOB, Stoneforge, Hymn or Bitterblossom in a world of Mental Missteps. Like the 2 Deadguy decks that toped 8 last SCG open. IMO Deadguy is THE Stoneforge and Dark Confidant Deck in legacy.
Ehm you still play with vial and Tidehollow? Didnt know some people still do that - im surprised^^ but ok - mind posting your version? im keen on this one to be honest :)
you run 4 SFMs i suppose? Im running 2 atm....
Atm I only run 3 SFM but thinking of adding the 4th and adding a Batterskull into the Stoneforge package. Just need to get my 4th foiled one :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
I did post my list a couple of pages back. However thinking of new version as I find Mirran Crusader to be to good not to be played in a deck with a Stoneforge Mystic package.
It should contain: bob, stoneforge, swords, knife and butter, Mirran crusaders, Bitterblossom, x discards dispells probly 4 thoughtseize 4 hymns, Chrom moxes, Vindicates, wastelands, Gatekeepers, Swords and Fetid Heaths.
In my meta is ALL!
RLY ALL!
And yeah, i'm fine with my removals. Btw i play 3 vindicates not 4.
You shouldn't have to many removals in your deck.
If you are playing 12-16 removals and you are playing against combo like T.E.S or playing against 43 lands for example, you can't board out all removals.
Atm, im playing 3 SfM with 2 jitte, 1 Sofai, 1 batterscull.
More equipp as SfM? Yes. I draw automatically 1 equipp in each game and 3 SfM are fine.
Don't have to much and never draw no SfM
And a turn 2 SfM isn't my friend. I wanna play Bob instead.
A question outside at all.
Why is Dark Confidant called BoB?^^
I mean, his head is funny but i would call him Ken.
(Barbie and Ken) :D
Dark Confidant is Bob cos Bob made it :D Its inventational card like Meddling Mage, shadowmage infiltrator and other.
guys im just shocked - please take a look at the list up there and change mother with hymn ...but...
i just played vs a friend and his gw zenith aggro and lost 0-5
HOW?
What is so fucking wrong at this built?
Greetings
Guess your should try some protection green like Sword of Feast and Famine and Mirran Crusader and replace SoLaS with SoFaI. There is alot of good green creatures to justice protection from green on Mirran Crusader and SoFaF. I also feel the Deadguy need one of the following cards to be a more unfair deck, Chrom Mox, Dark Ritual and AEther Vial.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
I tried something new.... more or less^^
I transformed my deadguy ale into a aether build with aether at 2 - so no more creatures over 2 + i added 4 SFM + equip PLUS batterskull - and im very convinced that this artifact is worth it - 2 Mana 4/4 viginlance lifelink - thats just great :)
Greetings
I think your problem is, that you lose a game and wanna change your deck.
you should play it more and more to see how it works.
for example your 0:5 game.
you played 5 games - lost them - and wanna change and change.
just think a bit about it. pls
Hmmm anyways...
Did any1 try batterskull yet in a Deadguybuild? What was your list and how did it work?
Greetings
Get a room you two!
the only green creature that should trouble you is terravore. you hopefully have a mix of gatekeepers, nighthawks, crusader's, sfm (atleast a f&f in the side), bob, mom etc. most of your creatures are trumps to theirs. they either trade or do more than that.
what aspect of g/w zenith are you being troubled with?
Thanks for the help, but Itd would just spamm this whole thread full with just me having problems with a certain deck - Id prefer hearing your thoughts and tests on Batterskull?
Plus I had a new idea, we could work out a BEST list of Deadguy together. I had this idea when i read this on the first post
"After watching him go to the finals with this deck, I am convinced with proper tweaking (if possible?) this could be the deck to beat. I will easily say that he should have won the Grand Prix, as I for one can't name a deck that wins against Goblins with 1 land out other than 1 land Belcher."
So, I think Ill just start posting the deck with the cards I think that are very important, and all new of you, copy it and edit it and paste it in your new post and at the end we got a PERFECT deadguydeck^^
4 Scrubland
4 Wasteland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Dark Confidant
4 Swords to plowshares
- Thats the cards I am sure no1 doesnt have in his deck, now some1 else edit this please to your thoughts and so on and so on.
And at the end we got a Deck to Beat - I promise you
Greetings and Godspeed
Sry but this is fact, Philip.
Yeah im testing Batterscull at the moment and i have to say it's nice to have.
Opponent attacks you and you play in response Batterscull with SfM.
So test it too. It's nice.
I would add this to this List.
4 Hymn to Tourach
3-4 Stoneforge Mystic ( im not sure 3 or 4. Im playing 3 atm)
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
2 Umezawa's Jitte
Okay to make this work, you have to post the whole list, so mine + yours, Ill show you what I meant
ok, new List is now
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Dark Confidant
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
If some1 thinks this list has a mistake, just post this list and edit it as you wanted:) hope all of you got it now.
I haven't pulled this deck out in awhile but it tries to win by generating more card advantage than its opponent. This works most the time as long as you aren't playing against standstills or counterbalances. Its one of those decks that doesn't curb stomp anything, but doesn't have any really bad matchups (Blue decks with misdirection are the worst).
My list doesn't run Bob which has been considered blasphemy but Bob + Tombstalker is savage bad tech. Tombstalker is by far the best fatty in black and really I can't see building a tier one black deck without them. (The gate maybe, that deck commands respect)
Creatures- 13
4x Gatekeeper of Malikar
3x Tombstalker
3x Nyxathid
3x Nantuko Shade
Stuff- 27
4x Swords
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Night's Whisper
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Dark Ritual
4x Smother
3x Gerrard's Verdict
Lands-20
Guess :P
Sideboard
4x Vindicate
4x Oblivion ring <- Show and tell answer
4x Engineered Plague
1x Nantuko Shade
2x Duress <-- Not sure what else to run here
On paper the numbers look good too:
12 Removal spells
11 Discard spells
15 Cards that generate card advantage
9 Creatures that can make short work of opposing life totals
my list is off the top of my head; i just starting playing it again.
4 inquisition
4 hymn
4 vindicate
4 swords
4 mom
4 bob
2 sfm
3 gatekeeper
3 nighthawk
1 mirran crusader
2 top
1 sofai
1 solas
1 jitte
3 marsh flats(i have a lot of fetches; sadly enough i don't even own a playset of the cheapest one)
2 verdant catacombs
1 bloodstained mire
2 scrublands
7 swamps
3 plains
4 wastelands
first off, I do realize I have several unorthodox choices: mom, solas, mirran crusader and top.
mom dominates any deck without counterspells. I do realize people don't usually run solas, but i'm usually happy to see it. mirran is easily castable with double white as a 1 of, tops are amazing, they have saved me countless times against bob,let's you save spells like gatekeeper or swords against hymns and discard. i do want to add a batterskull though.
Try out Stillmoon Cavalier...seems good in your setup where your double (sometimes triple!) black are so important. It would give you some flexibility in your 3-mana beater slot rather than having to come up with 1WW for the Crusader. It would essentially let you drop Solas as he would have built-in pro:w + b.
Just an idea.
No1 feels like improving our Deadguy - DtB?
I still have my cataclysm list ready, but I just don't have access to Stoneforge Mystics yet... why'd they have to get so pricey! :frown: I'm honestly probably just gonna proxy or borrow till prices plummet to a reasonable level, but I could get some testing to see how it handles some matchups like Enchantress, Lands, Zoo, Goblins, etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipp802
how is 10 bucks "pricey?"
How does 16 to 20 bucks = 10 bucks?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Maker
<> $80 for 4 cards about to rotate seems pricey, especially when they spent over a year at $3-5
get the event-decks, per Deck 2 SFM for 25(?)$ seems fair, especially when you consider him a legacy-staple
this just makes me smile, if sfm was really valued at 20 then the event, then decks would be gone already... leto pointed out that by default the most a sfm would be worth is basically 12.50 each. however it is likely 10 otherwise i would just buy the event decks like no other.
Yeah, I heard about that too, which is why I'm pretty much expecting them to plummet soon like I mentioned. I actually went ahead and plugged in a few numbers below to give a fair look at what we should expect to see.
http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...ceAnalysis.png
yes, total agreement to the price concerning SFM, Hell stay stable at like 10 euro or stuff which is ok.
but,back to the deadguy topic, does no1 have an idea what to add to this list? I mean dont you want to get Deadguy go to DTB? :)
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
4 Dark Confidant
4 Swords to Plowshares
4 Stoneforge Mystic
4 Hymn to Tourach
2 Umezawas Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
well, isn't it obvious that there is no perfect list, as multiple choices are dictated
a) by your playstyle
b) by your meta
It beginns with the cmc1-discard question. TS or IoK? For me it's a metacall, what you will play, TS in an all aggro/aggro-control-meta with fast clocks everywhere is not the smartest idea... I'm sure you get the point.
Same as TS are in my eyes following choices:
-Vindicate (cool swiss army knife, but somehow cluncy. Is it really needed?)
-Tempo (Vials? Moxen? Rituals? Do we need the tempo in DGA, and can we compensate the disadvantage?)
-cmc3 Slot (nighthawks, stillmoon Cavaliers, Crusaders?)
-Finisher (do we need them? If so, who is the house, stalker, Percy, Obliterator, Nyxathid?)
-Heavy in which color, Black or White?
-Do we need Mom?
-Do we need more cmc1 Removal?
-Should we splash a third colour (B/G/R?) and what would we gain?
-Should we play Mental Missstep (k, obvious, but couldn't resist ;) )
...
that are all questions where I don't see a universal answer. This is not math, its not 1+1=2 in Amerika and in Europe in Magic. Thats something you should consider
ye ofc, but i thought, thered be something like a most favored list at all - as expected theres none - i play my dga with mother vial and with 4 cc3 cards - but ok ill drop this wish to get a most favored dga list
Greetings and Godspeed
I see that nobody plays Kataki? How come? Are you guys completely unconcerned about your affinity MU?
Kataki is awful in other matchups. I could understand running him out of the board, but there's still no way to find him reliably, and you don't want to dedicate 4 slots to him because he is limited in use. I would suggest something like Serenity (because it helps in a couple other matchups, namely Enchantress and maybe White Stax), but with the reliance on equipment that this deck has it's probably not ideal. Unfortunately, I haven't tested the affinity matchup much since I made the switch from Junk to Deadguy, but losing Pernicious Deed worries me.
Ok, so here's my view on Thoughtseize in aggro matchups. Let's say you're playing against a very aggressive deck such as Burn. It's late in the game, your opponent has 1-2 cards in hand, you draw a Thoughtseize. If you cast the Thoughtseize and take something like a Fireblast, you didn't lose 2 life but rather gained 2 because the Fireblast was going to hit you for 4. Thoughtseize may seem awful on paper against an extremely aggressive deck like Burn, Zoo or Goblins but if you're downgrading all of their Bolts or Blasts to Shocks, aren't you gaining life in the long run? If you take a turn 1 Goblin Guide that was going to hit you 4 times, didn't you just gain 6 life?Quote:
It beginns with the cmc1-discard question. TS or IoK? For me it's a metacall, what you will play, TS in an all aggro/aggro-control-meta with fast clocks everywhere is not the smartest idea... I'm sure you get the point.
Obviously I would rather have an Inquisition or Therapy against one of those decks, but I'm not a huge fan of snap boarding Thoughtseize out in aggro matchups. Am I just crazy or does anyone agree with me?
Your rationale is correct. If you don't have a card that's better than saving you 1 life for 2 mana (vs bolt for example) in your board, keep them in. Especially good on the play like you explained vs creatures if you couldn't answer them otherwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by bfeingersh
well i think that was a bad explanation, it that scenario of a lategame thoughtseize, you would likely take 6, they would blast you in response, in all likely hood. and being late in the game, i don't see you being at a very high life total. The burn matchup is easily if you stick a jitte or a solas and i guess batterskull now.
affinity isn't the worst match up. it's not that bad, just sometimes they get nut draws.
Im gonna push my Bw deck into abuse Stoneforge and her weapons.
3 Gatekeeper of malakir
3 Mirran Crusader
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine (this spot is metaspot)
1 Umezawa's Jitte
3 Bitterblossom
4 Sword to Plowshares
3 Vindicate
4 Thoughtseize
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Chrome Mox
2 Blinkmoth Nexus
4 Wasteland
4 Scrubland
4 Marsh Flats
2 Fetid Heath
3 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Urborg
First of I wanted to push up the land count compared to Caleb Durward's & Joe Bernal's versions of the Deck. I think chrom mox is the way of the 3, Mox, Ritual and Vial as long as Mental Misstep is played as much as it is. So adding man lands to go from 19 lands to 21 lands. I wanted the land that was cheap to activate do normal damage and was harder to block, wich Is the Blinkmoth Nexus. 1/1 Flyer land perfect to equip and attack through without geting blocked by heavy ground creatures.
Chrome Mox, Why chrom mox? Well Deadguy's best cards are all 2cc dropps so why not play a card that makes us able to cast them on first turn? All our 2cc dropps makes up for Chrome moxes draw back of losing a card. Deck is filled with 2 for 1, even land has this hybrid abilitie, sure its virtual card advantech but still, wasteland being land and a land destruction card and nexus both being a land and a creature. Without the chrome mox, what is our best first turn? Land, thoughtseize? We are playing legacy after all. Or we could do something like turn 1 hymn, t2 thouthtseize, stoneforge / bob / Bitterblossom
Bitterblossom: With the Equipment plan every creature even the smallest becomes value, when you can play one of the most powerful black enchantment ever printed that does this exaclty. I dont see a reason not to play with it. It can easly overwhelm a control players target removals if it sticks.
Mirran Crusaders: can easly win any BUG matchs alone, stick a equipment on him and opponents life will go down very fast.
With Batterskull I really want to see them in my starting hand or top decking them. Flexible 2 for 1 card with abiltie to fetch up Manriki-Gusari for other stoneforge mystic decks or swords with gamebreaking triggers and protections or just a beater.
Lastly I really do like what Fetid Heath does offer to the manabase. Makes your turn 1 plain still able to cast a turn 2 Hymn to Tourach or your 1 Swamp 1 wasteland and still on turn 3 play your Mirran Crusader. They also increases your chances for geting both colors from just 1 land without using our life total, wich I rather use for more cards or Tokens.
Sideboard isnt complete but it is gonna be something like this:
3 Perish
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Sword of War and Peace
3 Ethersworn Canonists
2 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Duress
You obviously don't thoughtseize when they have 1 card left in hand and mana up, that would be stupid. If they blast you in response and you take a chain lightning, you take 6 instead of 7.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Maker
This is also true of many other cards of Zendikar. Hoping that Goblin Guide goes down to $3 or less for my red deck, jace goes down to $60, and Stoneforge gets cheaper.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystical_Jackass
Batterskull will also get cheaper. A mythic rare in standard that loses Stoneforge and has limited application in Legacy? Should go to $15 or so.
Anyways...