@Brael, can you elaborate on the keeping griselbrand and emrakul at bay circumstance please? Would like to hear that story :)
Printable View
@Brael, can you elaborate on the keeping griselbrand and emrakul at bay circumstance please? Would like to hear that story :)
I only play magic (and NicFit) for a bit less than a year but people do seem to say things like "Oh, NicFit must be good in this meta." or "I've been meaning to build a NicFit deck." more frequently after the dig ban.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Thanks to all the recent discussion. I leaned quite a bit.
I made a few changes to my deck (again) and decided to try out living wish two times main. I like the painful truth idea but as i am of the opinion somebody expressed in a discussion about Painful Truth vs. Read the bones saying if you are looking for card quality you take bones and if you are looking for quantity you are take bones (with the sidenote that he/she would never play either in legacy). With living wish i guess i am able to get a specific answer or threat which takes this idea a bit further.
Also i noticed that the statistical breakdown of played maverick cards (in the first post of the maverick primer) is a great place if you are looking for cute stuff.
So I just top 8'deck the warm up iq at togit near the scg open location last night. 4-1-1 in Swiss and lost in 90 minutes, 3 games to Joe Lossett. Running the same 75 today. I'll post more details when I'm back home.
I was at 23 life so I had enough to survive the 22 they would deal to me. My opponent was at 2.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
My board was Rhino, 2 Veteran Explorers (with 4 basics still in my library), Meren (0 exp counters), Pridemage, and Thrun. I couldn't profitably attack but neither could my opponent. I also had a Sylvan Library but I didn't want to draw any cards with it since I could be hit for 22, so it was just doing some filtering. I don't remember the exact sequence that got us to that board state but it involved S&T bringing in Meren and Thrun for me, and then Meren brought back my Explorers and at some point I cast the Rhino, and I had slowed the game down a lot with an opening of Explorer+2 Cabal Therapy.
Basically, my opponent couldn't attack. If just the Griselbrand swung he would go to 9 and I had 9 after his Emrakul blocked something. If just the Emrakul attacked the same thing would happen. If I attacked into two blockers my opponent would just eat my two best creatures and gain life, which would then safely let him draw cards.
I broke the stalemate after a couple turns by picking up a Rhino off of Sylvan Library. My opponent had mentioned that his best line at that time was to attack with Griselbrand, draw 7, and hope to find the cards to replay a Griselbrand on defense he already had the Griselbrand in hand so he would have been looking for one of his two remaining Show and Tells since I could Pridemage a Sneak Attack in his second main. After the game he checked the top of his library and he would have missed on that line.
Atleast, that's how it went to the best of my recollection. Show and Tell was round 1 (that story being game 3) and then after the 3 rounds of Legacy we did 4 rounds of Modern and I didn't use paper to track any of it so some things might be fuzzy.
Hello fellow Nic Fitters, first time poster here.
After reading nearly every page of this thread, I finally decided to join in.
I play Junk Nic Fit for about a year now, my current list is pretty similar to the one of Bobmans on p.131 (with some budget restrictions regarding the land base and thinking about cutting 1 Stoneforge Mystic once I can get my hands on new Meren)
Some thoughts:
1. I think the SFM-package is essential to stabilize versus "fast" non-combo decks like e.g. goblins, delver, maybe even merfolk and so on, but can also win you games when you get the 9/9 flying/hexproof/lifelink/vigilance Sigarda or a Rhino with an active Jitte.
2. Pernicious Deed. This card has won me so many games vs. fair decks, no way playing less than 3. It's our best option in so many matchups (last weeks playtesting against Death'n'Taxes with black splash for dark confident and thoughtseize resulted in 4-0-1 for me, mostly thanks to Deed).
3. Don't know about Painful Truths. Sometimes it's nuts, sometimes it just gets a needed card I would get from top anyway at the cost of a card + 3 life.
4. Last weeks, I was sadly disappointed about Siege Rhino, too. Yes, Siege Rhino. So depressing when facing 6/7 goyfs or 8/8 knights. Most times it was just an overcosted lightning helix with no impact. Maybe just matchup dependent..
5. Regarding the sideboard, 1 Teeg plus 2 Canonists plus some point discard/extractions felt extremely powerful in combo matchups G2 & G3.
Last but not least, I realized some of you generally win 2-0 vs. Shardless. My experiences were the other way round: Their visions are pure CA, Liliana & Hymn raping my hand, goyf & Tar Pit doing the rest. Help appreciated!
(p.s. Nic Fit not only being my favorite deck, this is also my favorite mtg thread. Go on guys!)
I could not agree more then this. Points 3 & 4 especially. Like i said in p 131, the effect of Sensei's Divining Top 1: ability eot is nearly the same. Yes, i agree with Ralf that it is a "slow" engine, but often 2 out of 3 cards are not useful plus this deck loves the long game, so i feel that quality > advantage any day with this (type of) deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Meyer
Siege Rhino, i am really starting to have a love/hate relationship with this card. Sometimes it just races, other times i just stare at 4 mana clunkiness.
Very curious about what others are gonna say about Shardless MU. Never once played against it with NicFit, but it seems like a slightly worse version of BUG Delver (due to the cardadvantage).
Today i was gonna play at a tournament, but as life happened and i could not go. Instead i went out and found myself some Japanese cards to complete my list (Meren of Clan Nel Toth). So final changes are (thanks to Ralf and Echelon) to the p 131 list:
- Forest
- Courser of Kruphix
+ Knight of the Reliquary
+ Dryad Arbor
I'm sure others can elaborate more, plus most of my experience is with BUG I've only had the one shot with Junk now. The key I found with BUG was that all of your cards are 2 for 1's, even if they're also generating 2 for 1's with Liliana, Hymn, Agent, and Visions you should still be generating more of them. In BUG you generate absurd quality too because Birthing Pod turns every card into whatever is optimal. Let me give you a typical sequence over a few turnsQuote:
Originally Posted by Meyer
TX - Pod Eternal Witness into Meren, EoT return Eternal Witness to hand.
TX + 1 - Play Baleful Strix, pod Strix (1 exp counter) into Trinket Mage. Trinket Mage tutors Hangarback Walker. Play Hangarback Walker for 0 (2 exp counter), play Eternal Witness return Hangarback Walker to hand. EoT return Baleful Strix to play.
You mention Ancestral Visions being a problem, well that sequence I just named on turn X+1 draws you 5 cards (2x Strix, 1x Witness, 1x Trinket Mage, 1x Meren) while putting stuff onto the board and you can get similar levels of advantage every turn. Their best plays are Shardless into Visions for 3 cards but your typical play is to get 3 cards. They just can't keep up, and while they will disrupt you for a long time they eventually just run out of resources and lose.
Junk is pretty similar except you're not using pod, what won me my games was Courser of Kruphix+Top, it's a pretty absurd combo. Every turn you basically get to pay 1 mana for 1-2 life (sometimes you'll hit a fetch which you can then crack for free) and 1 card, in a grindy matchup that quickly turns into some real advantage.
The early game really comes down to Cabal Therapy which I've found to be true in most matchups actually. The guide is completely correct in my opinion, it's what I've modeled my calls on and it has yet to really let me down. Brainstorm G1 and G2 play, and Hymn G2 draw. If their opening in G2 is Tropical Island on the draw though I divert from the guide. If you call anything here they'll Brainstorm so it's best to hold your Therapy and hope they fire it off early. Tropical probably signifies Shardless Agent so that's what I would call there. Alternatively if they cast a DRS off of the Tropical it could mean either Hymn or Brainstorm (or T2 Agent).
This is so underestimated. Courser + Top: Cardadvantage, increased mana development, life gain and land filtering which increases card quality.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
More then a year ago i also ran 2 Domri Rade in my PFire list (as an experiment). While Domri was underwhelming, having the triple card combo was just sic.
DP warning. Just couldn't resist on reworking the PFire list. For that i am including Meren. The list is nearly reworked, but there some (minor) open ends.
Main:
3 Veteran Explorer
3 Deathrite Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Eternal Witness
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Meren of Clan Nel Toth
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 open slot
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Punishing Fire
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Volrath's Stronghold
2 Bayou
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
Sideboard:
2 Carpet of Flowers
3 Slaughter Games
2 Thoughtseize
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Kolaghan's Command
2 Golgari Charm
2 Blood Moon
1 open slot
For now i am on the 3/3 split between Veteran and DRS. 3/4 was a bit to much and i don't want to go lower on DRS as it is a miracle worker.
1: Maelstrom Pulse is probably slightly better then a Kolaghan's Command in the current meta.
2: With Meren + Eternal Witness i do not see the need of Volrath's Stronghold. As much as i hate to see it go, i will probably add another coloured mana or Kessig Wolf Run to the deck.
3: With Meren i see more value in Reclamation Sage, but i am not sure if i want Sage in the MD or in the SB.
4: The open MD slot is where normally your 6 drop is at. With a Courser MD i do not feel the need to run Primeval Titan. The card has been mediocre. Of all the creatures i have been most impressed by Stormbreath Dragon. But running that card means a couple of things. A. Running a second Mountain MD (with a total of 7 basics), it will cost you games not being able to dig up the 2nd mountain with Veteran. B. because it is not green, running 2 would be better. Aka just like Baneslayer Angel in the white lists. C. It would also mean that Thrun becomes less usefull, since SBD dodges most of the hate aswell. Otherwise, the 2nd SBD can fill the slot of R.Sage and moves it to the SB.
5: If not going for SBD, then what 6- (or 7drop) would be a good call. Already tested cards: Charnelhoard Wurm, this card is a real nightmare IF it connects. 7 mana is a lot, but when playing SBD i always was able to get that 7 mana to pump the SBD the turn or two after it was cast. So i might just be able to pull it of to run a CMC 7 instead.
Rampaging Baloth, provided some dangerous pressure that was nearly comparable with Grave Titan. Especially with Courser in play (or Veteran Explorer).
Then some of the latest set cards: Skysnare Spider, Vigilance is a very nice ability, being able to pressure and block with a 6/6 boady (and with Reach) seem solid. Then we have Arbor Colossus, This has a 6/6 body with Reach and destroy's a flyer upon entering the battlefield for 5 mana. For 6 mana it becomes a 9/9 body. I do miss Trample on this one (or Vigilance).
6: Blood Moon is a solid card against lands. Along with Slaughter Games, which is good against Storm and Miracles, these provide some useful cards against a couple of the current meta decks as seen in the New Jersey . Comparing against the rest of the New Jersey decks, PFire NicFit seems to be a solid contender.
Thoughts?Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
I know that I will be insulted for this, but I'll say it anyway.
What about Tendrils of Despair? I'm sure it has been tested already, but I think it could be a decent option, not really for it's main effect but because it allow us to have more chance to abuse our best friend's ramp ability.
One black mana to sac explorer and put in play 2 lands, plus the discard 2 (not at random) which is a decent bonus in my opinion.
I'm no expert with this deck, so I wanted to ask the big nic-fit.dec guys here (Ralf, Bobmans, Ricardo?)
I was saying you should have a Broodmate Dragon but then saw you had only one Huntermaster. You muste have at least two huntmaster in jund version. He is so good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
You should keep Volrath Stronghold in the deck as well, wolfrun is a bit win more I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubblekill
3 things come to mind when seeing this.
1. To play the card, you need a creature to sacrifice. 2. The effect falls short for a must effect in opposite of Diabolic Intent. 3. The opponent gets to choose, Hymn to Tourach would do a more reasonable job. All in all it does what we want, but in every way to little to impress m2c.
Broodmate Dragon is a card i would never run. Played back in 2012 and never did anything. Moving on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ganfar
2 Huntmasters have been performing very well. Solid consideration, perhaps in the RecSage slot MD. But that does not solve the absense of a big dude. Which can still be SBD. If so Kessig will obviously not make the cut. Probably be a color land > stronghold > kessig.
Primeval is my 6 drop of choice in punishing fit.
With woolfrun in your list, titan is a 2 turn clock, that only dies on swords or terminus, but that let all your explorer attack for 6+ for the rest of the game :smile: He is inevitability ! (but yeah I get how he could be win more)
Been trying to think of ways to abuse Meren today and came to the idea of creatures that sacrifice themselves. At first I thought of Evoke creatures but the only one that seems halfway usable is Shriekmaw and not being green is a factor. The next thought I had was Echo creatures and that brought up Hunting Moa, Deranged Hermit, and Multani's Acolyte. Do any of these seem remotely viable to anyone else?
Fleshbag?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brael
A follow up to the list I posted. I played at my LGS 2-0 miracles, 1-2 Merfolk. 2-1 BUG goodstuff, 1-2, and RUG 1-2. Two bad keeps, and I disliked seeing Karakas early, its moving to the board. Vindicate was a pornstar.
1 Question though, how do you deal with lands other then the two Paths for marit lage?
Pressure them with discard early on taking out stuff like Crop, Gamble, etc. Surgical Extraction on Dark Depths when they flip it with Loam. Or Loam itself. Take out Punishing fire with Slaughter Games or DRS. And random stuff like Pithing Needle on Maze of Ith. Also i'd keep in either Deed or Decay for stuff like Molten Vortex. Even then, its still hard. They will most likely Waste your Karakas. Plus they eot the Lochness monster so things like Liliana are useless. Its no joke playong that mu.Quote:
Originally Posted by moseby
It's nice to toolbox with RecSage but Huntermaster is much better card in so many match up. You want at least two in your deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
If you have wolfrun in the deck, then Primeval Titan is a good card in the deck. But as you said: It's win more. The two untily lands Tower and Stronghold can help you to advance and get back from the game, so Wolfrun is not so needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Plm
If you are going to play witha 6 drop you should play with Broodmate Dragon. Thing Broodmate is better then Titan:
*More power (8>6)
*More Bodys (You have to remove two cretures)
*Has flying (Don't get chmupblocked by ground cretures and blocks 3/X flyger as a bodd (Delver and Vendlion)
You get so much more from Broodmate and do not need other cards in the deck to make it good(Like titan wants unitly lands)
No love for Ruric Thar in Jund?
He's massive, has reach AND vigilance, he destroys cantrip decks and punishes the opponent if they manage to remove him.
Better than that 6 mana spider anyway :P
Ruric Thar is actually the closest to what i want to play, but the thing with this card is that it can also lock yourself out of the game. Plus it should shine against storm, where it will never see play due to its CMC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jain_Mor
So to sum up the realistic options, this is where i'm at. Huntmaster #2 MD with RecSage in the SB is a fact.
1: Volrath' Stronghold + Thrun + Broodmate Dragon
2: Kessig Wolf Run + Thrun + Primeval Titan
3: 2nd Mountain + 2x Stormbreath Dragon
Mind that in option 2 Kessig Wolf Run could also be a Treetop Village or Raging Ravine. A manland is strong on it's own plus it makes coloured mana. Ravine makes R, which also works for PFire.
This is my current list. I would love some input here because I'm not very experienced with the wish build and kinda lost. Mainly I wanted to try sth different but the added toolbox effect suits me fine. Now i just need to sort that toolbox.
I found Karador makes (kinda) a lot of sense (probably just my definition of sense) in top-deck scenarios against discard heavy decks. You wouldn't want do gsz him but topdecking into through living wish can make a lost game into a win (considering most or at least some of your creatures will be in graveyard by then; if your manabase isn't there yet in topdeck mode you were probably fucked anyway). Considering the other real option is obstinate baloth (which i think is horrible) this can be really good. Also the holy trinity between Phyrexian Tower - Meren - Kharador is just beatiful. I should probably just finish my edh deck...
Also i really lost faith in recurring nightmare. it feels too situational, too counterplay affected (just shoot the dude), isn't there when you need it, is there when you don't need it
Lands:
Bayou
3 Forest
Marsh Flats
2 Phyrexian Tower
2 Plains
Savannah
Scrubland
2 Swamp
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
Dudes:
2 Deathrite Shaman
4 Veteran Explorer
Gaddock Teeg
Scavenging Ooze
2 Eternal Witness
Reclamation Sage
Meren, of some Clan
3 Siege Rhino
Sigarda
Non-Dudes:
4 Cabal Therapy
3 GSZ
2 Path to Exile
3 Sensei's Diving Top
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Living Wish
Maelstrom Pulse
3 Pernicious Deed
SB:
Bojuka Bog
Karakas
Phyrexian Revoker
Night of Souls' Betrayal
Surgical Extraction
2 Thoughtseize
Krosan Grip
Melira, Sylvok Outcast (I don't accept losing to infect. Just, no.)
Thrun, the Last Troll
Containment Priest
2 Ethersworn Cannonist
Karador, Ghost Sth
Orzhov Pontiff
Is there an individual topic about BUG Walkers on the site? Or any discussions about this type of Nic Fit are going here?
Discussion about walker Fit's right here ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by mainactivenet
Havent heard a while about it.
I decided to try a kind of McDarby's list with some little changes:
Mainboard:
// creatures
4 x veteran explorer
2 x baleful strix
1 x scavenging ooze
1 x thragtusk
1 x tasigur, the golden fang
// planeswalkers
3 x jace, the mind sculptor
3 x liliana of the veil
2 x kiora, the crashing wave
1 x ugin, the spirit dragon
// discard
4 x cabal therapy
3 x hymn to tourach
// searching engine
4 x brainstorm
2 x ponder
// removal
4 x innocent blood
4 x pernicious deed
// lands
4 x polluted delta
4 x verdant catacombs
1 x phyrexian tower
2 x swamp
2 x island
2 x forest
1 x creeping tar pit
3 x underground sea
2 x bayou
1 x tropical island
So, the sideboard is in develloping progress and i have some doubts about Ugin, the spirit dragon vs Karn liberated.
Do anyone has some expirience piloting BUG walkers deck? I'm especially interresting for tests versus combo decks.
I played something similar to BUG walkers. I ran decay over IB and also had 3 snap casters. I had CTP and snapcaster/Tusk as win con (aside from Jace). I also played maindeck FOW. You will be able to hard cast it a decent amount of the time and it improves the combo game.
I do not this this Kiora is very good. If you played DRS I could see a case for the newest Kiora but as it is this one is worse than 4 mana flip garruk.
8 mana is a lot. If you want to run a big Walker I think Karn may be better.
I played Gprobe as well so my combo match game 1 was not great but discard into early lily/jace gave a chance. The addition of force also helped.
I bring in things like dispel, TS, surgical postboard.
2 Tom4ik
Could you post your deck list?
What was the feeling of piloting this deck, is it consistence or need something to improve topdecks?
Manlands are good if you need a manasinker. You have Pfire for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Here you might be able to find some ideas.Quote:
Originally Posted by mainactivenet
Karador is a late game Meren that doesn't rely on triggers. The holy trinity actually is Phyrexian Tower/Diabolic Intent - Meren/Karador - Eternal Witness.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dadadot
That trinity (with some parts being interchangable) allows you to tutor any card from your deck every single turn/allows you to recur discard/removal every single turn. That's how you kick an opponent off his feet and proceed to break limb after limb every turn he doesn't come up with an answer to your engine.
@Bobmans: I'm glad to have been of help!
I brought Nic-Fit Blade to the local Monday legacy event yesterday. Turnout was on the low end at about 25-30 players. Sadly, it was not a good day for Veteran Explorer and company. A quick summary:
Round 1 vs. MUD
2-1
Game One: Super grindy - he got a turn three or four Blightsteel Colossus into play. I played double Veteran Explorer, chumped to go to 9 poison, fetched out 4 basics, and untapped into popping Pernicious Deed for 4 to kill his sidekick Lodestone Golem and playing Liliana of the Veil and forcing him to sacrifice Blightsteel Colossus. The game went on for a long time after that with him eventually searching out a Platinum Angel and beating down with it. My board of Grave Titan + Rhino got him down to -17 life and I was able to use top to find a Pernicious Deed, which I blew for 7 to win the game when Angel died.
Game Two: Sometimes you die to turn three Blightsteel Colossus!
Game Three: Two Deeds, a Qasali Pridemage, and a Titania (joined by two elementals) equipped with Sword of Fire and Ice were enough to grind out his permanents and keep him off of Forgemaster or bigger.
Round 2 vs. Reanimator
0-2
Game One: My early Deathrite (I can't remember if he was Zenithed for or naturally cast) was Dazed, leading me to believe I was up against BUG Delver. Naturally, I started developing my board with great creatures - easy day! Imagine my sadness when he untaps and plays Careful Study discarding Griselbrand, Reanimate.
Game Two: I've noticed that my play-style is a little bit too aggressive with this deck. This is a great example: I could have blind-cast Therapy turn one but instead lead off with Explorer. Had I just gone for Entomb turn one, this game would have been interactive. Instead, I faced down a turn two Griselbrand with no Liliana in hand. I had Karakas, but he had Pithing Needle.
Round 3 vs. Infect
1-2
Game One: My opponent attacks Glistener Elf into Veteran Explorer (the Elf was a 2/2 thanks to Noble Hierarch), allowing me to search out some basics. The game goes incredibly long as he isn't able to find protection for his Inkmoth Nexus that my Qasali Pridemage is threatening. I'm able to get off a Deed and stabilize, eventually I am able to attack + Green Sun's Zenith tutoring for Rhino for the kill and my opponent concedes.
Game Two: My opponent assembles Nexus + Berserk + Invigorate on turn three and I had no instant speed removal for him. Again, I could have played Deed and threatened to blow it for 0 (to kill the Nexus), but I went for the greedier play of Stoneforge searching up Jitte as I felt that an active Jitte could dominate the board. My opponent had Krosan Grip x2 in his hand anyway, so this was ultimately a moot point.
Game Three: My opponent is able to position himself to attack with multiple threats, threatening to pump whoever goes through (Inkmoth Nexus, again) for lethal. I mulliganed to 6 and kept a somewhat uninteractive hand that threatened to go big quickly, but it wasn't enough.
Round 4 vs. Alluren
0-2
Game One: I'm able to resolve Pernicious Deed for four against his active Alluren, leaving my opponent with about 15 creatures in the graveyard and three in hand (Strix + Harpy + Land) and I'm reasonably happy to top-deck Liliana, forcing the discards, but sometimes your opponent just draws Alluren off the top again and kills you.
Game Two: There isn't much to say about this game; he couldn't find the combo and we ended up trading permanents back and forth. I didn't have a Top going compared to his Sylvan Library, which eventually found him the combo while I was stuck drawing Hymns when Green Sun's Zenith, a Threat, or even a Fetch (I had Titania in play) could have won me the game.
So, today I learned:
1. Nic Fit doesn't like to play against Combo - no news there!
2. Dryad Arbor felt mediocre to me. It's possible for it to wear a sword, but I wasn't particularly impressed by it. There were too many situations where a mulligan to six with an Arbor in hand felt awful.
3. I think Thrun + Sigarda may be overkill. I'm going to remove Thrun from the sideboard going forward, at least until I feel like I miss having him around.
4. There were several situations where Meren would have been great - especially against Mud, but also in the grindier games against Infect and Alluren.
5. A third divining top is probably necessary.
6. I liked Phyrexian Tower a fair bit; the acceleration can be really clutch in certain situations and an additional sacrifice outlet is a nice thing to have.
7. Living Wish was great game one but very easy to board out - I'm not sure if I'd continue to run it going forward.
Questions, Comments, or Criticism is always welcome. I hope you guys find this helpful to read.
It's nice to read about NicFit. Thank you for sharing. Tbh i have been on and off all day just to hope someone wrote something in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by gth842s
Your G2 vs reanimate is a very typical error when playing NicFit. Getting greedy will cost you games. Now you learned it the hard way. Play safe and tight. Especially when you know you played against a deck that can (and will) drop you a T1 Griselbrand. Also, this is typically a match-up where Veteran Explorer trigger can backfire. Speeding up this deck is generally a bad idea unless you get to fire off a Slaughter Games or something backbreaking the same turn (unless you know your safe for 1 turn and doing so puts you into a solid spot).
Yeah... That's just poor sequencing. Doing this vs. other decks opens you up to getting blown out by Daze/StP when they counter your Explorer or StP it before you have a Therapy in the yard. Order should always be T1 land + Therapy, T2 land + Explorer (fuck you, Daze), flashback Therapy (fuck you, StP), preventing your opponent from ever having an opening to mess with your explorer. They won't be able to Daze it b/c you've got a 2nd mana and they won't get priority until after you've sacrificed Dora to Therapy.Quote:
Originally Posted by gth842s
Also, it might be nice to post your list so we have some context on why certain things might have happened.
Hi there, Fellow Nic Fit Abzan player,
Been following this thread and i'm going to have this weekend's a legacy tourney, would like some inputs on my list that i tweaked after a great number of games:
Creatures
4-Vet
2-DRshaman
1-Scavenging OOze
1-Qasali pridemage
1-Voice of resurgence
1-Eternal Witness
1-Courser of kruphix
2-Siege Rhino
1-Thrun
1-Thragstusk
1-Sigarda
Spells
4-Cabal Therapy
2-Swords to plowshares
4-Abrupt decay
1-Maelstrom pulsse
3-Pernicious Deed
3-Green Zenith
2-Liliana of the veil
1-Garruk Relentless
3-Sensei's top
3-Forest
3-Swamp
1-Plains
2-Savanah
1-Scrubland
3-Bayou
4-Verdant Catacombs
3-Windswept heath
1-Marsh flats
1-Phyrexian tower
SB:
2-Ethersworn Canonist
1-Gaddock Teeg
3-Thoughtseize
2-Surgical extraction
2-Choke
1-Swords to plowshares
1-Recurring Nightmare
1-Krosan Grip
1-Golgari Sharm
1-Hallowed moonlight
My meta should be (with order of appearences):
Miracles
BG/x other grindy decks
Delver (Bug, Rug, Grixis)
Shardless BUG
Reanimator
Infect
Crippled Death and taxes (probably without Rishadan ports)
Goblins/Merfolk/Burn/Affinity/Dredge
Lands, MUD, Storm and other types of combo decks are almost non existant;
The cards that for me are still in deciding, are, Thrun, Garruk and Voice. I find that they are very good against Miracles, and also good against BG/x and Delver.
Thrun & Thrag should be Rhinoes and Voice should be DRS. Rhino is a cheaper and therefor better Thrag and Thrun gets fucked by Terminus the same way Rhino does, so you might as well enjoy the Rhino's lifedrain/leech. Voice of Resurgence does nothing to further your gameplan and plays very, very poorly with Pernicious Deed.
Also, with Sigarda in your 60, switch a Swamp for a Plains. Getting those with Explorer can be pretty big.
(I'm a newbie with the deck)Quote:
Originally Posted by Echelon
I was just thinking to acquire a Thrun on MODO since the online meta is absolutely ruined by miracles (and delvers)..at least the Troll doesn't die to swords or JTMS -1, is it not a decent Rhino n. 4? I agree about the Tusk.
4 rhino. 4 gsz. Play path instead of swords. Also vindicate is amazingly better than pulse.
I personally don't like courser in the deck and relentless is not a mb card from my experience.
Cut a fetch for a karakas.
All suggestions. Do what you will.
I have to disagree on Rhinos. I started with 3 and lowered the number.
Thragtusk is way better then Rhino against miracles because it still leaves a token against swords, terminus and jace. The matchup is all about attrition and sticking 1 or 2 creature that pressure them, not about a helix or 2 to the face. From my experience.
Thrun is also better then Rhino against Miracles, since only terminus can deal with it.
Has for voice, i think people underestimate it's value. I have had many games that the token it generates by being killed (and also by our own therapy) or by players playing instants in my turn, is relevant.
Garruk was a sideboard card, but planeswalker's are good against miracles and BG/x. It could possibly be changed to zenith or another lili
Karakas is a welcome addition, and also plains.
I play pulse because of the added protection against pyromancer and because i don't think the land destruction portion of vindicate surpasses the benefit of being able to go 2 for 1. Still i will try it.
Thanks.
4 rhino is why you play the deck. Thrag is good but five is a lot more than four from my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by mario_dude
I may add a thrun back in considering how good he seems.
Garruk just seems like a dead card in a lot of matchups. Lily is amazing but we get little value off her. If she weren't so expensive I would play some number on mtgo.
I will have to try voice at some point. Seems strong. (33 tix each on mtgo. I will pass)
Vindicate deals with everything. Lands can be problematic such as karakas, depths and stage, etc. I just need versatility as opposed to value most times.
As for pw, my favorites are ajani mentor and lily. (No blue so jtms doesn't count)
Id probably just swap the Voice for a Meren.Quote:
Originally Posted by mario_dude
Tusk and Thrun are fine as those gives you different angles. 2-4 Rhino is choice. I like flexibility over streamlined here and never go higher then 2-3 Rhino's (which is a waste since i hava Japanese signed playset).
If i where to run a combat walker i'd probably go for Elspeth over Garruk R (moving that one to the board). Flying Rhino or Tusk is sooo sweet.
I understand the Lili's.
Recurring Nightmare will probably never be boarded in.
Extirpate might be a good call over SE, due to split second being awesome against Reanimate and Miracles. Maybe even taking out RUG lightning Bolts or shit like that.
And i also miss Karakas.
U don't play white nic fit solely for the Rhino. It's also or so much because of swords, sigarda, added sideboard options. I too feel that diversity is better then streamlined, more so in legacy where u can find so many diferent matchups, and in a deck u have a tutor effect like zenith.
Recurring is there for the grindy matchups, like against miracles, BGx, and Shardless. Sure u have to set it up against opposing DRS, but after a deed it's awesome to go vet + recurring.
It also can come down to Meren or other card that ensures Card Advantage over time. But Meren feels alot more fragile in those matchups.
Extirpate is cool, but sometimes u need to pay 0. It probably evens out on
The added versatility in vindicate is the Land destruction clause. If i had Lands in my meta i could see go vindicate route, likewise i'm sticking with pulse. Last night i got several 2 for 1's, (2x DRS one game, 2 Goyfs the other :)
Since i dont see (or few) stuff like Storm, Tin Fins or (manaless) Dredge, Extirpate would be the better call. Your "problematic" matchups are not fast (expect Reanimate, but when they go T0 Griselbrand they deserve to win) and all run countermagic (except the one Dredge). Hitting discard on stuff like StP/SDT into Extirpate is pretty solid against Miracles. All in all i think that Split Second is more relevant then 0 mana in your meta. Currently i pack SE just because i have a LOT of storm in my meta and typically tap out and play aggressive vs them, otherwise i would run Extirpate for sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by mario_dude