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I've been thinking about this a lot lately, but the only times I really go for EtW is when it's in my opening hand or I have enough storm to dump 8+ goblins on turn 1.
I usually IT/LED or BW for Tendrils in most other cases.
Er.. if that makes any sense..
Does that mean that you want to cut Empty The Warrens from both, maindeck and sideboard? I wouldn't recommend doing that. But it depends a lot on your matchups whether you actually need Warrens or not. I'm thinking about moving the maindeck Empty The Warrens to the sideboard and playing the second Ad Nauseam, but so far I've really liked Warrens against a lot of decks. It's awesome against Merfolk and CounterTop lists without Engineered Explosives. It also often makes up for shitty draws, but I'm not sure if it's better than Ad Nauseam then.
I really like having EtW maindeck. I just feel like I'm not actively going for it as a win condition. I seem to only use it if I don't have a "win now" line of play or don't think I have a "win now" in the next few turns.
Sure. Why would you go for Empty The Warrens when you could go for protected Ad Nauseam or IGG loop for example? That's the purpose of having Empty The Warrens: to not just lose when you can't go for Ad Nauseam or Ill-Gotten Gains. The only times I actually dislike having Empty The Warrens is when flipping it with Ad Nauseam. But then again I rarely (if ever) lose games because of that.
Well, if you ever flip Ad Nauseam, just think of it as flipping a Force of Will. Tasty.
Agreed. I feel the exact same way. Sometimes, I use it to bait countermagic while holding other cards to go off with the smaller Etw (small means less than 10 goblins). Then I go for my other engine the turn after, usually an Ad Nauseam but sometimes just acceleration into tutor for a Tendrils and that's enough since my Goblin Tokens can swing if the EtW actually gets cast.Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
Just think of Ad Nauseam flipping a Draco. Even tastier (but that should never happen).Quote:
Originally Posted by RaNDoMxGeSTuReS
Just played Bryant's list to back to back wins.
Empty was insane.
Ill-Gotten Gains was insane.
Diminishing Returns was good.
Grapeshot was eh, but it was a good thing to have.
Good luck Bryant on the 18th.
LOL!!! This is what I get for playing a combo deck without Top. I took TES to a 1-2 drop at my local tournament after losing to BW zombies in round 1!!!!! I didn't think a deck of this quality could perform this bad .... yep. Next round i fucked Landstill in the ass (like combo does) then I lost to someone lucky enough to play Chalice @1 and Chalice @2 by turn 3 and they managed it 2 games in succession. DDFT still could have won but this deck could not handle that. Is it really luck? Or did I just have sub-par draws against these decks?
I know round 1 was solid luck. I Mulled to 6, Went for DReturns on turn 4 and missed. Went for an IGGed back DReturns on turn 6 then lost. And in the second game I lost to a topdecked Mindbreak trap after the bitch topdecked the second the turn before I won.
Round 2 was Landstill ... this matchup is still a joke and I won 2-0.
Round 3 was Chalice Mono-w Aggro w/ Chalice and Trini Main
g1: I won w turn 2 AdN.
Games 2 & 3 I lost because of turn 1 Chalice at 1 both times. And on turns 2 and 3 he consistently hit Chalice @2.
Is this commonplace? Have u ever seen an opponent hit this shit that many games in succession?
Bad beat. Get over it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Bad beat. Get over it.²Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Shit happens dude, I've lost to Patron Wizard.deck where the guy refused to attack me. But you know what? Two weeks later I top 8'd a GP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Nice to hear, and I'm unsure if I'll even be attending.Quote:
Originally Posted by lorddotm
Pulp, shit happens, can't change that.
I posted a shitty report.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryant Cook
Then I take back that good luck, I might be needing it for the 19th.
Firstly, I'm assuming that in your stompy games you didn't get a burning wish? You can pay the replicate cost any number of times on shattering spree and the copies won't be countered by chalice. It's really a great tool for dealing with that cardQuote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
The other half of your situation happened to me quite a lot a while ago, I blame it on diminishing returns. I rarely get anything great out of it and my opponent gets a fresh 7.
Add to that that if I was already against a fast clock then i've just given them a hand full of gas, and unless I got a hand of win I'm in no better position than I started in. It's not the card I've come to rely on.
Most of the times I would have gone for returns I now go for warrens. 12-16 goblins on turn 2-4 isn't great but most of the time my opponent has a harder time dealing with that than a new hand, and that buys me a few turns to rebuild; of course If I have a tutor in my hand I go for Ill-gotten gains and loop with the win condition in my sideboard if the tutor is a burning wish.
Tl;dr
Don't go for returns that often, your getting seven cards you can't mulligan, shattering spree is great sorry it didn't work out.
Dragon stompy is the deck that I stopped playing to pick up TES. I regularly dropped either two chalices or a chalice and a trinisphere or a trinisphere in the first two or three turns, if not on the first turn (off of seething song). I've also had absurd luck against combo running mindbreak traps and chalice out of the board in elves and TheBirdMan blew me out with continuos ridiculous combo hate draws in playtesting. Peoples decks work the way that they should work in dreamland sometimes, which sucks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
Round three was obviously an anti combo deck, so I wouldn't worry too much about dropping that matchup. And loosing to crap luck of Dreturns twice sucks but shit happens.
Thanks for the clarification scooter. But I was not complaining (thats what I do when real money is on the line and get sucked out on ... duh). Rather I was just posing a few questions: did I have ridiculously bad luck that night AND has anyone ever seen consistent double Chalice before turn 4. Cause I have played against a lot of Dragon Stompy/Stax and I have never seen sick draws like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by JonBarber
Honestly, you got lucksacked on, but that matchup is a bitch, pretty much comes down to who can win the roll. I find that Chants are much better than Duresses usually.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction
@pak0
I am not really sure but If you opponent has no counter you can make that way:
Play gemstone. 3x Petal.
Usea for B for Dark Ritual (SC:4) BBB in pool.
Sac one Petal for R und B. Cast BW for IGGY (SC:5) BB in pool.
Cast IGG for BB + Volcanic + Gemstone. Take Dark Ritual + Petal + BW. (SC: 6) 0 Mana in pool.
Play Petal for DR. (SC:8) BBB + 3 Petal. 1 Petal and B for BW -> Tendrils and 2 Petal + BB for 20 Tendrils.
I hope I made no mistake.
Burning Wish is removed from the game once it resolves, so you can't get it back with Igg.Quote:
Originally Posted by stumPen
The 1 BW is discarded by IGGY. But still there is one Mana missing ... I forgot it. So it doesnt work at all.