With fewer green targets for GSZ, maybe play brainstorm instead and reduce the GSZ count?
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With fewer green targets for GSZ, maybe play brainstorm instead and reduce the GSZ count?
I'd also be wary of the UU cost in Cliques. Seems tough for a splash color even with Hierarchs.
You might also want to -2 mindcensor, -4 mother of runes, -most of the deck and go check the bant thread. Sorry to be so cynical, but I don't see how you even got the idea to cut Green Sun's Zenith to add brainstorms when the whole deck resolves / has become popular thanks to Green Sun's Zenith.Quote:
Originally Posted by iScare
Game is usually over when a Knight of the Reliquary sticks to the board and you untap with it. I don't really see how Vendilion Clique compliments the gameplan of Maverick. Sure, it's a nice 3/1 flier with good abilities but atleast I feel like it does less than Eternal Witness for example. Overall I feel like red splash would be better than blue, but if you splash blue at least splash with creatures that are also green and therefore fetchable with GSZ.
If you want some blue cards to play, you might want to consider Edric, Spymaster of trest, Rhox War Monk and Rafiq of the Many. I've found Rhox to be somewhat good if your metagame has a lot of burn. Batterskull ofc solves that problem also, but does Stoneforge Mystic usually live until she can land a batterskull? I'd much rather fetch up Umezawa's Jitte.
Just my thoughts about adding Brainstorms, Cliques and St Traft's and cutting Mother of Runes and GSZ.
I really agree with you - I was like "Did I click on the wrong thread?" I mean If youd like GUW then go play Bant, as it is similar to Maverick but has Blue in it...
And yeah punishing Fire is a card thats really worth splashing for.
In Germany/Austria GWr and GW are kind of at the same popularity at the moment, which does mean quite alot cause GW was kind of the Germans Deck at first.
Teeg doesn't turn off Storm, it doesn't even slow it down too much to be honest. With Teeg on the board Storm can still dig through the deck, sculpt the perfect hand, find Chain of Vapor/Grapeshot/whatever, get rid of the kithkin and kill you, while with Canonist (instead of Teeg) their digging is muuuch slower - usually slow enough that you can kill them before they find an answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by from Cairo
The case for Teeg against storm combo is that he allows you to steal G1s that you shouldn't win. I still see decklists that are cold to Teeg G1.
I played Punishing Maverick on a event with 242 players and made the 32nd place with 6 - 3 record winning some store credit.
Short report.
Round 1 vs. GW Maverick: 0 - 2 He got two very good draws and find his Knights when he needs them.
Round 2 vs. UR Delver: 2 -1 In game 2 he got a very fast start, but in the other 2 games I was never under pressure.
Round 3 vs. GW Maverick: 2 - 0 Punishing Fire game 1 and Mother + Scryb Ranger game 2. Bojuka Bog with Fire vs. Knight gives you a warm and fuzzy feeling.
Round 4 vs. Dredge: 2 - 0 He makes more mistakes and I was never ever under pressure. Two Ooze and one Bog in the maindeck helps.
Round 5 vs. Canadian: 0 - 2 Difficult matchup and I get raced by Delvers.
Round 6 vs. ANT: 2 - 1 I won game 1 (MD Teeg), game 2 I lost. In game 3 I got Ethersworn Canonist and Teeg, but he can handle them. Thanks to some attacks he is on 12 and his Ad Nauseam is not enough to win. Difficult matchup, maybe it would be easier if I would've seen my Pyroblasts one time. Countering Cantrips is just so good against Storm.
Round 7 vs. Bant Aggro: 2 - 0 Punishing Fire is King.
Round 8 vs. Punishing Maverick: 0 - 2 I know him and I know he plays the deck very well. Also he is on 5 - 1 - 1, so he has the chance to get into Top 8 (and he made top 8 and won the whole thing).
Round 9 vs. GW Maverick: 2 - 1 Game 1 I got total control of the board, thanks to Wasteland, Mother, Punishing Fire and Life from the Loam. In this long game 1 he hit me with Batterskull three times, manages to get Ooze and Knight, all three Equipments (BS, Jitte and SoFaF), Sylvan Library and Thrun, the Last troll, but it's not enough. In game 2 I keep a slow hand and got punished but game 3 was easy again.
After playing straight GW Maverick for months now, players have adapted to the deck and you will have a hard time fighting through.
Maverick with Punishing is somehow the next stage in the evolution and right now better than straight GW. As a sidenote: My first tournament with Punishing Fire and it paid off! What would've been possible with more experience and practice (Round 1 and Round 5)? I will never know, because I was too lazy :tongue:
Where was that event and what was that ? Can you link some more data about it ?
Looks like meta became more mirrored than I except ^^ - time to think about answer deck ^^.
The event was the annual Eternal weekend in Hanau, Germany. You're right, Maverick was indeed a big part in the meta, but also was Canadian, Delver-Burn and Stoneblade.
I don't have any links right now, but I think some information about the results will be posted next week.
Looks like two GW/r Maverick decks in the top 8 of SCG Open.
I've been playing Punishing Fires in Naya Zoo for quite a long time, and recently switched to Maverick, and I've had a blast with both decks. That being said, I really hope the deck doesn't catch on. There are few things in Magic more boring and time consuming than a Punishing Fire mirror, and waiting on those matches to finish even if you're not actively participating in one is pretty disappointing too. :cry:
That being said, these decks are for real. Just in case anyone thinks you're a scrub unless you play blue.
You're right. that person should just play BANT. I was only referring to the decklist someone posted recently consider splashing blue with using Cliques, Geist of St. Traft and spell pierces.Quote:
Originally Posted by Machahiko
I would have posted in the Bant thread if I had more than 4 MD blue cards or if splashing changed the deck's strategy. The Geist list I posted is closer to the spirit of G/W maverick than Punishing Fire maverick, for example.
G/W/u w/Clique+Geist just got 3rd in the latest SCG open, the highest a Maverick deck has placed in these during the past few months.
Brainstorm would force me to cut some critical cards; see if you can pull out 4 cards from that list. GSZ gives the deck the consistency it needs. Also, adding brainstorm would double the amount of blue cards in the deck and make it more reliant on blue mana, which isn't where I want to go with choke in the board.
On Jace: Seems win more to me, especially in an aggro deck. Elspeth is the planeswalker for this deck, ending games quickly, adding resiliency against sweepers, and beating Jace. I might add another and play with 61.
On Edric: He's extremely weak to removal, which is what I'm trying to mitigate, and if your opponent doesn't have removal, a knight would have ended the game.
On Clique: Maverick is inherently weak to a some key cards: Pernicious Deed, Perish, Show + Tell, Wrath of God, Storm tutors/Ad Nauseum...Cliquing these cards away attacks your opponent's strategy in ways that G/W + G/W/r cannot. Clique and Spell Pierce deal with the cards that Maverick is most vulnerable to. Punishing Fire deals with cards/decks that Maverick has tons of outs to and natural strengths against.
Those are good points, but it seems to me that black has a stronger disruption than Clique does. Clique is unique in that it's very aggressive, so ya it gets the nod over black's discard. But the other points I feel can be addressed with a deck that's very similar to No-force Bant.
The more blue you add, the weaker you become to other blue decks, aggro decks, and mana disruption. Adding counters dilutes the GSZ toolbox or forces you to cut Mother or Stoneforge. I love Bant and am constantly testing different variants, but the Maverick shell is my favorite and has distinct advantages over NOFOW. If there was more combo in the metagame, I'd up the Tropical/Tundra count, but for now, this is where I want to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by rukcus
Clique vs. Thoughtseize - Maverick is extremely strong because many of its creatures (Pridemage, KOTR, Ooze, [Clique]) function as both answers and threats. This flexibility allows the deck to win without Brainstorm. If it were just Clique vs. Thoughtseize, then I would give black more consideration, but Geist and Pierce seal the deal. Also, Thoughtseize is a bad topdeck in a deck that wins because it topdecks threats at a greater pace than your opponent can answer them.
This is an interesting Maverick variant. I agree, it is closer to Maverick since it runs GSZ and not FOW/Brainstorm. How's it been playing? I bet it confuses opponents a lot. I'm thinking about giving it a test run. How is Choke in the sb? Seems strange, since it shuts down your own lands...Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueNevus
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/...with_adam.html
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...0&iddeck=52320
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...5&iddeck=53460
I gave it a try yesterday on private testing and it seems very strong against controllish Rock decks, like the rising star Nic Fit. Clique + Karakas is just plain awesome.
Geist is very strong in the mirror, providing a short clock but he seems fragile on it's own. With equipment he is just a beast. Here i am totally on par with BlueNevus - Elspeth is far superior in that list.
Edric seems weak, but he will win games that you cannot win otherwise. EoT Mindscensor or Scryb + fetch on an emtpy board combined with Edric on our turn is pretty nasty. He competes with the Sylvan Library slot somehow, maybe the second Ooze a Terravore or Thrun might be stronger.
I just built the GWu build and all I have to say is "Holy 3CC Mana Slot!" Compared to GW or GWr Maverick, where I am used to 12-14 2CC drops and 6-7 3CC drops, this deck has 12-13 3CC drops and only 7 2CC drops. Without sticking a turn 1 Noble Hierarch, I'm not sure what I am going to do on turn 2, drop land, go? I guess I could play a SFM if I'm lucky enough to draw one or GSZ=1. I like to have a 2 drop in my Maverick. I'll give this deck a couple of run-throughs and let you know how it goes.
The idea of a Maverick hybridized with Bant for adding the non-counter blue bombs deserves consideration. You're basically trading the robustness of the manabase for card quality and versatility.
Let’s consider the 3rd place Starcity list. It’s a good work in the sense it splashes Bant goodies but is able to keep all Maverick columns.
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
2 Aven Mindcensor
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
3 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Plains
I think this list is optimized for a Stoneblade heavy meta. I wouldn’t like such a list in a vacuum. The average mana cost is very high, and I agree with Water_Wizard, with so many 3/4cc cards the risk of unkeepable or slow hands is bad, especially where tempo is popular.
Geist, again, shines against control but is less spectacular elsewhere. I could compare it to Mirran Crusader: cool, broken with equipments, but in the end there are better options.
I’d take a different route. Since your blue splash is heavy enough to allow you to support Clique and Jace, and you want more resiliency and a lower cost, I’d answer the provocation of those who say “If Brainstorm is so strong, why don’t you splash just for it?”
I’d remove Geist and Edric for Brainstorm, and I’d keep Clique and Jace. In this way you’re splashing for the best of non-counter cards of the best color – thus you’re increasing the power level of your card pool – AND you’re adding useful capabilities to the deck.
Brainstorm gives its best with so many shuffle effects.
Clique is fast, evasive, and adds a very useful tool against combo (very good thing in my meta) and control.
About Jace. Yes, it’s true he’s less coherent with Maverick strategy than Elspeth. I’d see the thing from another point of view: he’s a B-plan for situations where you can’t win with creatures, and this is very good. (Or, of course, he’s “just” a draw engine).
Compared to standard Maverick builds, you’re more resilient against perish anyway, and Brainstorm’s capability of increasing resiliency and finding answers and sideboard cards game 2 and 3 is well known.
I’m going to test this list:
4 Knight of the Reliquary
4 Mother of Runes
4 Noble Hierarch
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
3 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
4 Brainstorm
4 Green Sun's Zenith
4 Swords to Plowshares
3 Vendilion Clique
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Windswept Heath
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Savannah
2 Tropical Island
2 Tundra
3 Wasteland
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Karakas
1 Forest
1 Plains
I agree with Morte's assessment on Geist - it's a lot like Mirran Crusader for me as well. It's something I really want to work, but seems to require too much deck building around to make it happen.
Especially if you're behind on the board, Geist seems like a pretty bad topdeck.
Morte that deck looks alot like the one from the last Legacy GP (Providance I believe). Which did really well even if your not running the Force of Wills in the sideboard (which I didn't care for at the time).