[DTB] Blade Control

I strongly disagree on Karakas being mandatory. If I'd play Karakas I'd play 2 of them. A 1of is in a deck without any way to tutor it up way to random, especially when its only needed in specific MUs. How about drawing it vs Storm and not drawing it vs SneakAttack?

4 Force of Will aren't needed aswell. Stoneblade doesnt aim on casting more than a Force each game, because it strictly is Card-Disadvantage, and we can handle nearly all permanents once they landed the game. And..you claim we got alot of blue cards? I'd love to see your list, as I play rather few blue cards. Or medium, but not many for sure.



Greetings

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

I strongly disagree on Karakas being mandatory. If I'd play Karakas I'd play 2 of them. A 1of is in a deck without any way to tutor it up way to random, especially when its only needed in specific MUs. How about drawing it vs Storm and not drawing it vs SneakAttack?

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Yup, your second plains is really better than a Karakas against Storm...

A one of means you have a 20% chance to draw the card by turn 5, which is increased by your cantrips and fetchlands. Why wouldn't you take the added flexibility? Double plains on the other hand is almost never a necessity.

When thinking over it another time, I think you might be right - Ill give it a shot (again). Still I wouldnt want to cut on the 2 Academy Ruins - as suggested I might cut a Plains...

Greetings

Of course I am right, I use logic and reason. :wink:

Karakas isn't dead against Storm. You can bounce your Cliques to re-use them.

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Originally Posted by Hitman82

Karakas isn't dead against Storm. You can bounce your Cliques to re-use them.

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Well that was a rather large piece of shit I posted there. You are right.

Sorry.

Greetings

You can also play a 2nd Karakas in the board.

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

4 Force of Will aren't needed aswell. Stoneblade doesnt aim on casting more than a Force each game, because it strictly is Card-Disadvantage, and we can handle nearly all permanents once they landed the game. And..you claim we got alot of blue cards? I'd love to see your list, as I play rather few blue cards. Or medium, but not many for sure.

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You might reconsider your position, not just because 99% of the player base disagrees with this, and not just because you were knocked out of your last tournament by combo, but because it seems you are missing the point entirely.

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

You might reconsider your position, not just because 99% of the player base disagrees with this, and not just because you were knocked out of your last tournament by combo, but because it seems you are missing the point entirely.

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Could you elaborate?

Place 2, 19 and 22 on GP Ghent only played 3 Force of Will too. Making it 3 out of 4.

Greetings

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Originally Posted by Philipp802

Could you elaborate?

Place 2, 19 and 22 on GP Ghent only played 3 Force of Will too. Making it 3 out of 4.

Greetings

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2nd place at GP Ghent was an Elf combo deck. Are you sure?

If you are interested in the 99% bit I can list 297 other decks sporting the full 4 Force from various other Legacy events. But that isn't really relevant, now is it.

I think the burden is on you to substantially validate the claim that one of the (if not the) best cards in the format is not worth including as a 4-of. I see minor, shallow reasoning so far.

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Originally Posted by Rico Suave

2nd place at GP Ghent was an Elf combo deck. Are you sure?

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Oh sorry, it was listed on the second place in the top8. Obviously it wasn't place two, I am sorry. My fault.

You know, Force of Will is, in most Match-Ups not the best card, by far. It's worth it's gold in Combo-MUs. Other than that it's not that great. Getting a Force of Will Dazed can be game-deciding due to the Card-Disadvantage. I for my part see now reason to play the full set of Forces in the MB (1 in Side) in a meta that doesn't warrant it.

Greetings

Tolaria West could tutor for the one-of Karakas, along with Engineered Explosives. Slow, but it'll do the trick when you need it midgame. Also nice for the mirror to side one Ancestral Visions. Tolaria West for that thing and suspend. Four turns later they need a FoW or you win on card advantage (usually).

I personally would never play with less that four FoWs main deck. Simple reason is that you don't want to look rediculous playing blue and still losing to TES and its friends. Modern Blade Control plays very little counters, and of course in the States people are reluctant to play TES or ANT, so you don't get punished all that often, but just wait until you enter Europe. We play unfair decks, you know. :wink:

I think 3 Force in Esper cannot be bad; also proven by many top 8 finishes. You have discard and compared to Miracles you have more redundancy in your threats/answers and don't rely on specific cards to resolve that required setup like Terminus, Entreat or Counterbalance. If you often side out Force of Will what stops you from adapting to configuration the 75 slightly to adapt to the meta.

List I have been brewing:

4 b-storm
4 Force
4 spell pierce
2 Counter spell
4 swords
3 jace 2.0
2 clique
3 snap
4 mystic
1 bskull
1 sword of feast and famine
1 jitte
3 e.e
1 elspeth knight errant

23 Lands

Side:
3 surgical
2 thoughtsieze
2 Wrath of god (going to become supreme veridct)
3 dread of night
1 e.e.
4 duress

Please comment.

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Originally Posted by catmint

I think 3 Force in Esper cannot be bad; also proven by many top 8 finishes.

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Do you know what happens when the blue decks play 3 Force of Will? Sure, they may get a top 8 finish, but they DO NOT WIN. Combo does, as evidenced by GP Ghent where the finals was combo vs. combo.

I like to win. And if you do, I would advise playing 4 Force of Will. It's a far more complicated issue than what can be discussed here without a 5000 word essay on the matter.

True story - I once played RUG with 3 FoW. I lost to ANT on turn 1/2 in the match. It was not pleasant.

Playing 3 FOW makes sense if you're expecting a lot of mirrors and aggro decks. It doesn't make sense when you're going into an unknown field with any number of unfair strategies. In either case, having 4 FOW in the 75 is the right call, and a choice as to whether to kick the last copy to the sideboard.

I like what Reid Duke said a while back on his NO RUG videos. Force of Will is a card you want to see in your opening hand, especially playing against an unknown matchup. Even if you open two, you just pitch the other one for the first one. It's never a bad card to have in your opening.

Multiple FoWs in hand allows you to sometimes pitch the other and preserve your more precious blue cards in the future, like in Esper, which relies on its late and mid game a lot more than other decks. Preserving Ponder, Brainstorm, and Snapcasters are huge.

I personally run 3 FOW main and 1 SB -

But I also run 4 extra spell pierce/counterspells main and 2 flusterstorms in the side. I find that usually enough against fast comb.

FoW is a lot less dead against creature decks than Swords to Plowshares is against combo decks. No one talks about running 3 Swords. We are a Brainstorm deck. If you have too many FoW's in your hand, BS them away or pitch them to other Forces. It's not always the best, but it's nice having 4 FoW when your BSing for an out.

It's okay to run less (or no) Forces in a deck like Aggro Bant, where you run a big threat density. It's not okay to run less Forces when you rely on resolving SFM or Jace to win. I would most definitely not go below 4 Force of Will in the maindeck, even if all you are doing is playing against aggro all day. Sure, some more spot removal is going to be better than Force in that matchup, but Force can still counter their removal on your SFM, their Jittes, their Force on your Jace (if playing against something with aggro and blue), etc etc so on and so forth.