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I think anywhere from 2-4 is defensible, but 3 is the easiest fit. I'd always play 4 if I could because the randomly blow people out, but the deck is susceptible to flooding already and is also color intensive, so the Wastelands aren't free like they are in Delver.
With Miracles turning into Mentor Miracles, I think Massacre isn't such a bad choice and I'd be willing to try it as a replacing one copy of Toxic Deluge. I think that if I'm going to keep discard main, I either have to keep it at four, or eliminate it. I will try four Hymn at my next event and see how that goes, but I think I will change it over to Liliana increased numbers. Liliana just has more modes and isn't as bad of a top deck as any discard.
Today was three rounds and it just wasn't a good day for me. I mulled nearly every game, probably because I just didn't see a hand I could work with and I lost every die roll, but the first. First match was against a midrange Affinity list utilizing Black Vise. Definitely an interesting deck. I lost game one by Ethersworn Canonist keeping my hand from emptying fast enough, and Vise killing me fast after Days Undoikg being cast. I definitely wasn't prepared for something like that as a pilot, but it felt very winnable. In this, I took out Forces and brought in Spellbomb, Extraction, Jitte, Nullrod. I've always felt like bringing Rod in with artifact cards was a bad choice, and it certainly was. After hitting Rod off of a Cascade, I promptly drew Spellbomb and Jitte. Any help with this would be much appreciated.
Second match was lost by at least three misplays against Infect. Game one I mana screwed myself by fetching a Sea instead of Bayou. As a result, I couldn't cast any of the four green cards in my hand that would have given me a fighting chance. Game two was one on the back of Goyf beats with Deathrite activations. Game three I mulled to five and lost on turn three. In this match up, I brought out Jace, a Goyf, a Vision for Jitte, Clique, Hymn, Thoughtseize.
Third match was against Mentor Miracles. This match up has changed I feel from your traditional Miracles. I lost game one after a good long grind and Mentor going nuts with Top activations. Game two I destroyed him after Goyf beats and eventual Shaman activations. This match came to a draw. I feel that if it were to keep playing out, I would have beaten him, but we were both just slow pilots.
My list:
[deck]4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
2 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Ancestral Vision
4 Brainstorm
1 Thoughtseize
2 Hymn to Tourach
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Maelstrom Pulse
4 Force of Will
4 Polluted Delta
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Swamp
1 Forest
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
1 Creeping Tar-Pit
2 Wasteland
Sideboard
1 Pithing Needle
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Disfigure
2 Thoughtseize
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Golgari Charm
1 Sylvan Library
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Null Rod
2 Arcane Laboratory
1 Vendilion Clique[/deck]
Right now, I am changing Thoughtseize from the main to the side and moving Hymn from the board to main. I think this will be proper now that Dig is gone. I think I will be taking Clique out from the side and possibly putting a second Disfigure in. Not entirely sure why, but I know I'm not entirely happy with Clique. I have only castes it once though, so I could be wrong. Might actually put Massacre in in Clique's place. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.
To previous poster, you brought up a lot of questions, but I'd just point out you seem very light on turn one creature interaction. I wouldn't suit up this deck without 2 disfigure, but I'm currently playing 3.
We really want to drag out games, and turn one plays can be dangerous. Mom, elves, delver, infect, all these decks require quick efficient interaction. I'm not sure how competitive you can be with only 1 disfigure.
Also notion theif is on the uptick, so I think disfigure is a reasonable answer to that card.
For you all playing the white splash in the side, what is the benefit of meddling Mage versus containment priest?
I'd play Dread of Night out of the board before Massacre. You can cascade into it or just drop it on turn one if it's in your hand. Miracles might also have a difficult time removing an enchantment as well.
meddling mage is also playable against stuff like storm?Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris
Containment Priest is pretty much only good versus Reanimator, Dredge, Elves, and Sneak and Show.Quote:
Originally Posted by wnorris
Meddling Mage is good (or at least useful) versus Reanimator, Dredge, Elves, Sneak and Show, Miracles, Storm, Jund (P. Fire), and all sorts of janky combo decks.
So, why play the more narrow card?
Thanks for your input. I don't have much experience with meddling Mage, and i wasn't sure if it was too narrow for matchups like miracles and elves. But the more I think about it it seems pretty good there.Quote:
Originally Posted by H
Do you normally board it in in all of those matchups? I feel like Jund, and maybe miracles, would just have lots of ways to remove it.
I honestly I don't play Shardless, but I do believe that they board it in versus Miracles. Versus Jund, well, I guess it depends on how much discard you have to take to out and how many other things you have in your board. Lands would probably have been a better example of a Punishing Fire deck though, plus Mage can stop them from Loaming as well.
In the end, Meddling Mage can be a hard card to play optimally. It is a powerful weapon and a big part of why this deck, in the hands of a highly skilled player like Lejay is a very formidable opponent. I, for one, often cannot wield it as well as it should be. If you are a beginner, or unsure, I would not play it, because then it is definitely the worst card in the list. As you learn the deck and the meta, it is a good thing you can turn to though.
I board Dread of Night for the same reason. It's just better than Massacre in all the matchups where you want Massacre and both are bad against Elves. As for Disfigure, I'll take my chances with Elves and Mom. D&T's average hand is obnoxious to us but not debilitating, and we're favored in the long game because of Jace, Liliana, and Deluge. Against Elves, we don't have much interaction game 1, and a 1-2 Disfigure isn't going to change that. It's a terrible cascade hit in matchups that aren't D&T, Elves, and Delver, and it's marginal even against Delver, where Strix is all but strictly better. In a world where it's correct to run even singleton MD Disfigure, I'd rather play Jund.
Have u seen this list http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/328096#online it includes the new jace. What do people think of it? I rather just run Sylvan Library i think.
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I wouldn't want to just completely rule out baby Jace since after playing with him (and against him) in modern, I've learned that it's a pretty damn good card in grindy matchups. Having said that, I have a hard time believing that a second JTMS or a Sylvan Library wouldn't just be better. It would be one thing if baby Jace let you cast Ancestral for free or something gross like that. I'll probably test it out though just to get a better feel before I totally dismiss the idea because like I said, Jace is the real deal in modern.Quote:
Originally Posted by weiuweiu
Yeah, I noticed I'm lacking in that interaction as well. What would you suggest I take out for a Disfigure in the main? I'm leaning towards the miser Pulse and moving it into the bored, replacing Clique. It will hurt my control match up, but I feel like D&T will be making a come back, and Infect is getting more popular by the day. Maybe dropping Vision down to three?Quote:
Originally Posted by Swizzie2000
How does everyone feel about Jitte? I noticed I'm the only one running it. It helped me to close out a few games in fair match ups. It's just an absolute beating, not to mention it helps out in Burn just a little. However a smart Burn player will bring in artifact hate for Agent and Strix. Or do smart Shardless players remove Strix? I know Strix is an excellent blocker against Swiftspear.
I played with baby Jace last night. Was not impressed by it at all. In theory I thought it would be good to recur removal/etc but usually if we can get it to flip we're usually just winning the game anyways. Our spells are a bit too low impact outside of Vision, and since we can't Jace it back, usually I'm hitting an Abrupt Decay maybe? I didn't have times where it was good to flashback a Hymm or Thoughtseize, as I was ahead on cards and just needed a clock to finish them off. Because of that, I feel big Jace is much better suited (I was running 2 in place of that and the 4th FoW) for this list. Plus big Jace would never get Sword/Karakas'd out, while baby did multiple times.
I have been playing this recently and winning almost every match, but there is one guy online who plays Junk Stoneblade with Hymn and Gerrard's Verdict, as well as Lingering Souls and Bob, STP Decay etc.
I don't think I have ever played a more slanted matchup in my entire life. I board out forces and board in disfigures and artifact hate, but he just gets seemingly the nut draw every single game.
Anyone else having a similar experience?
I've not played this matchup, but try a Night of Souls Betrayal in the SB. Seems like it'd do some work.Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
Split the finals of my local legacy tonight playing the list that won a couple weeks ago.
dragon stompy 2-0 win
rug delver 2-1 win
reanimator 2-0 win
top 4:
rug delver 2-1 win
Finals:
split with reanimator
really liked the deck! here is my sideboard
1x scrubland
3x meddling mage
1x golgari charm
3x thoughtseize
1x surgical extraction
1x grafdiggers cage
2x disfigure
1x sylvan library
1x pithing needle
1x toxic deluge
Could you post your list again, please and thank you?Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinP
I don't think you want to put disfigure in the main, but you definately want multiples in the sideboard. 2 arcane laboratory is probably more than you will want/need vs storm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimson Viper
If you really want more creature kill in the main, I'd recommend toxic deluge or maelstrom pulse.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Krimson Viper
3 Baleful Strix
4 Shardless Agent
4 Deathrite Shaman
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
4 Ancestral Vision
2 Hymn to Tourach
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Toxic Deluge
1 Forest
1 Swamp
2 Bayou
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
1 Tropical Island
4 Underground Sea
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Wasteland
honestly never played the jace and ended up sided him out alot.