Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Depends on the build of goblins. Mono Red will have a tough time with a fast combo, or with a bridge. The black splash can interact with you via discard, Warren Weirding and Gempalm, so that match is tougher. I'd side out some REBS and not name Blue, because if you do Piledriver becomes unstoppable. Don't forget he pumps up after he's declared an attacker, so he can sneak in if you have a card in hand. Play tight and remember they're going to attack for the kill, so Peacekeeper and bridge from Rw will be your key cards to get into play.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GundamGuy
I am not sure that your on the right game plan if you are losing to Eldrazi Decks and your plan is to remove an MD Ensnaring Bridge for an MD Rest in Peace, or Tormod's Crypt.
What is your plan here, and how were you losing?
Well the idea was to possibly sneak some first games against Eldrazi. As soon as they counter/bounce&counter Jaya I have no way of winning the first game (assuming a fast enough Griselbrand so that dork beatdown is not possible). Obviously this matchup is one for the bridge to shine, nevertheless I'm planning to cut one as more than one bridge seems redundant for a welder build and the possibility to search for them with the eTutors.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jandax
You need to switch up your play style more than cards IMHO.
sooo true...
I'm still far away from mastering this deck, but I'm on my way... :-)
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
yugular
I actually played Artificer's Intuition at a Jupiter Games event. I think it's pretty bad for Painter, though. There's too much confusion trying to milk the most out of situational artifacts. It's cute and all, but I just feel like a more aggressive approach is the way to go in Legacy today.
i.e. Mono Red-R/w Painter.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
zangoasyl
Well the idea was to possibly sneak some first games against Eldrazi. As soon as they counter/bounce&counter Jaya I have no way of winning the first game (assuming a fast enough Griselbrand so that dork beatdown is not possible). Obviously this matchup is one for the bridge to shine, nevertheless I'm planning to cut one as more than one bridge seems redundant for a welder build and the possibility to search for them with the eTutors.
Sneak and Show is a combo deck which is trying to minimize dead cards so running bounce main doesn't make sense. So you should not expect any bounce game one. I looked at a few recent Sneak and Show Deck lists and saw there were Zero MD bounce spells, with 1-2 Echoing Truths or Wipe Aways in the SB. So sticking a Bridge game 1, should be game. Additionally don't run Jaya into counter spells, wait till you can counter back or are in a favorable position. There is no need rush and not play around daze (unexpected) or force once you've soft/hard locked them. Does this mean you should run only one Bridge? No, because relying on tutoring for it on time game one is not a good plan.
Other things to note: Use your revokers wisely, they are your second best card against Show and Tell.
Show and Tell is way better for you then Sneak Attack. Show and Tell lets you put something (non-planeswalker) into play without fear from counters at the same time they do, putting a Bridge in this way is strong, and sometimes the thing you can put into play will trump there only way forward due to your earlier game decisions so it's right to let Show and Tell resolve.
Think of Show and Tell as a wierd Rock, Paper, Scissors.
- Bridge Trumps Emrakul and Sneak Attack but not Griselbrand
- Revoker Trumps Griselbrand and Sneak Attack but not Emrakul
Out of the board you need to watch out for Through the Breach, and REBs.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Firstly, Jandax thanks for giving feedback. Always appreciated.
Contrary to my intel, this week's league foe had caught the Death and Taxes bug after white splashing his long serving Goblins deck. I hadn't put too much consideration into this match mainly because I have been playing that deck for over a year and was pretty confident I could go with it if it was on the other side of the table.
My opponent is really happy and explains how joyful it is to him I made the time to play him. He then offers a heartfelt apology for being about to beat me.
Game One, I drop a moon into a fast combo, he does the whole putting library into GY and waits for his draw to extend the hand.
I go to board and whilst firebolt is an obvious starter I am unable to work out what to swap. I don't board and head into game two thinking game one worked so well why change the formula?
Game Two, plains, vial, go. I keep a mana heavy hand with the requisite cards to go again. I drop a stone, he drops a ratchet bomb and commences to tick it up, I drop a painter with a recruiter in hand hoping he will bomb the painter calling blue. EOT he vials in SFM, now I am thinking go SoFaI and he does! In his turn, he o-rings my stone, ticks up the bomb and passes turn. I pull an ETutor, play a fetch and pass. Here he makes a rookie mistake of forging the sword and attempting to equip it,"it falls off" so he tries to untap two of his four tapped plains as take backs. "No, it equips and then falls off" he tries to argue the point and just before I call a judge he realises his mistake and passes turn. EOT, I fetch a plateau and tutor for a 'stone. On my turn, I cast the stone and instead of waiting for me to pay activation he pops the bomb, which kills my painter. Since I still have three mana in play I drop the recruiter and grab a painter. He reacts by slumping closer to the table. I pass. He draws and this time rather than allowing me to perform the coup de grace he extends his hand and it's GG. 2-0 and 2-0 in the league.
Clearly, I got lucky. The SoFaI over a Jitte was bad but to basically give me an extra turn by not waiting for the 'stone activation was the game. There is plenty of live ammunition in DnT - Revoker, StP, Mom, Mangara and Flickerwisp are strong. Post board he didn't have a disenchant effect which was a mistake but still he had outs.
Ten minutes in total, DnT was always to time, I really like this deck. It feels easier to play and I have enough time to eat between matches!
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I would have recruiter'd for a Goblin Welder. That way with a painter in the yard and GS out, you have the kill, and Welder will eat the next piece of removal before a drawn/tutor'd painter does.
That match you won through your opponent's inexperience. Jitte would have indeed destroyed you, and you definitely needed to sideboard. Keep in mind SoFI and naming blue, so with that respect you can shave a few blasts Bridge will shine for you because they can only attack to win. They have lots of utility in their lands so Moon effects are also good. If they get Mangara/Vial/Karakas online you're toast. Firebolt is sweet in this match as stated. So that leads to the decision tree branching off where you're on the play or draw in games two/three. On the draw, I'd assume a more controlling roll and board in art/creature removal and bridges. You can shave cards like blasts, because all their cards sort of do the same thing. Sure, it's tits when you have painter on Blue, but you'll need on the spot removal in Firebolt, Viashino Heretic (reusable tutorable artifact hate) and the like. Also, find room for extra Bridges, because DnT does have ways of removing one and swinging for a million after a board stall.
I've only played the match with Mono R and I had sets of Bridges and Revokers after boarding. They all did their part, but the thing I'd concentrate on is bridges. Not letting them attack nerfs their equipment, and you can easily lock them off of Mangara, so the rest of their deck is just sitting there while you can assemble and protect your combo. But this is all against a good DnT player. If they're new to the deck then you have to play to their weaknesses more than your strengths. Both decks are good decks, it comes down to experience and a little luck, really.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Cool, thanks again Jandax.
I think game two was a really different story had he been more attuned to his deck and yes, an active Jitte was completely the end...
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I have played the DnT match ALOT... And with experienced players. From this experience and results I have found it a very difficult matchup. Very skill intensive and grindy. All of our trump cards like moon appear dead but aren't, and both players have multiple answers to eachothers game plan.
All in all it can be a fun matchup. What out for flickerwisp... That's the card that can get ya.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Mindcensor can as well. If they pass with three mana open, it's a red flag. If you let them get a Vial up to three, you're gonna have a bad time
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Ish
I have played the DnT match ALOT... And with experienced players. From this experience and results I have found it a very difficult matchup. Very skill intensive and grindy. All of our trump cards like moon appear dead but aren't, and both players have multiple answers to eachothers game plan.
All in all it can be a fun matchup. What out for flickerwisp... That's the card that can get ya.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Yeah... Seems like one of the "safest" plans to go, evolve around a moon effect and a revoker on vial :D
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
My cards for "RaWberry shortcake" come in today! After playing fair for a while now I'm headed back to the darkside and cant wait! I do have a question though. Do you guys beat down SnT, or do you try to 3 card combo them instead?
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GundamGuy
Sneak and Show is a combo deck which is trying to minimize dead cards so running bounce main doesn't make sense. So you should not expect any bounce game one. I looked at a few recent Sneak and Show Deck lists and saw there were Zero MD bounce spells, with 1-2 Echoing Truths or Wipe Aways in the SB. So sticking a Bridge game 1, should be game. Additionally don't run Jaya into counter spells, wait till you can counter back or are in a favorable position. There is no need rush and not play around daze (unexpected) or force once you've soft/hard locked them. Does this mean you should run only one Bridge? No, because relying on tutoring for it on time game one is not a good plan.
I was talking about Jace @bounce in game 1, as this seems to be a recent MD 2-off of Sneak Show, as the top8ed SCG Legacy Open Charlotte and Starcitygames Open Series: Los Angeles Sneak Show decks suggest. Besides that thanks a lot for your thoughts, it really made me think different about this matchup... Looking forward to test it again somewhen soon!
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Could be piloting Painter tonight for the first time in *six* years.
Let you all know how it goes!
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Jungian Thing
On my turn, I cast the stone and instead of waiting for me to pay activation he pops the bomb, which kills my painter. Since I still have three mana in play I drop the recruiter and grab a painter.
If he shot first and did not wait for your activation to pop his ratchet bomb and you had 3 mana open. Why not just respond to the bomb activation by activating grindstone in response. Unless there is more to the situation seems way better than this line of fetching up another painter with an imperial recruiter with the open 3.
Also about jace in sneak and show. I'm not sold that jace is all that good in sneak and show, but either way he has a nice big blast target on his head. If they do manage to stick a jace I think you are in trouble anyway.
So I guess use your blasts judiciously, and only counter the key spells so you can fight over what matters.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
GundamGuy
If he shot first and did not wait for your activation to pop his ratchet bomb and you had 3 mana open. Why not just respond to the bomb activation by activating grindstone in response. Unless there is more to the situation seems way better than this line of fetching up another painter with an imperial recruiter with the open 3.
Yes, I see the ambiguity. Sorry. He popped it while the 'stone was on the stack.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Went deep at the local today with my previously posted Rw list. Will post a list and write up but here's a spoiler:
Achievement Unlocked: It's Miller Time
-Win via a natural mill (Helm of Obedience, for me)
fucking boss
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jandax
Went deep at the local today with my previously posted Rw list. Will post a list and write up but here's a spoiler:
Achievement Unlocked: It's Miller Time
-Win via a natural mill (Helm of Obedience, for me)
fucking boss
I have that achievement! Actually done it 2 or 3 times (w/ stone). It's pretty frustrating unless it's game 3 it your up in game 2. Usually the opponent is hard locked and just won't scoop.
But I did mill out a loam pox player who did half the work for me with grindstone.
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Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
I did it with Helm. Funny thing was I boarded out one GS for the helm and that would have been game a while back because I had at that point two welders, two painters, and a heretic out on the board sitting behind a bridge just tuggin' it. Mine is also better because I won turn 5 of over time via welder shenanigans. That was an awesome game.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Painter is live on SCG right now. A strange game. The player in question is taking lines I would not. Unsure if he is running a different line of thought or is a touch untested.
Re: [Deck] Imperial Painter
Never played the deck before, but I dunno why he wasn't topping after draw to try to dig deeper in the main phase. Also revoker naming stone forge and batterskull seems terrible when you know your opponent is playing jace
