[Deck] ANT (Ad Nauseam Tendrils) Storm Combo

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Originally Posted by looreenzoo

Newbie question. I would like to get into Legacy and, after lurking for awhile, I'm considering starting with storm and, more in particular, with ANT. Since I have to buy all the fetches and the duals (on MTGO), I wonder if there is an overall consensus on the manabase: 4 Polluted Delta, 2 Underground Sea, 1 Tropical Island and 1 Volcanic Island are a given, but what about the rest? The primer goes for 3 Scalding Tarn fetching both blue duals and a Badlands, but I see lists making different choices.

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Depends on what you want to play in the sideboard mostly. If you are running almost anything other than a young peezy build I would recommend

1 island
1 swamp

2 u sea
1 volc
1 trip
1 bayou

4 delta
4 misty

Some people like the 4 non delta fetches to be a 3-1 split of blue based-black based (3 misty 1 mire) but this is all personal preference.

If you are running a young peezy build or something else that is heavily red based I would recommend swapping the bayou for a badlands and making the 4 non delta fetches into 4 tarns (or 3 tarns and 1 verdant).

This is all personal preference and there is plenty of tuning that can be left up to you (like if you want to add a 3rd basic or change around the fetches) but that should at least give you a good place to start, especially with most lists now adding even more green cards to the board (like grip on top of decay and swarm).


Or as a final alternative you can just go the sawaterix route and use whichever fetches you have foil versions of.

So basically you go this route:

- Foil Fetchlands are included in your deck automatically :D my first manabase was really weird, there were even a flooded strand and a verdant catacomb just because they were shiny, I'm kind of addicted to them.still didn't had a problem with them.

as many others already stated there is the option to either run bayou or badlands depending on your sideboard choices. (additional empty the warrens?young pyromancer? krosan grip?weird stuff like carpet of flowers or city of solitude?)
then adjust your fetchlands accordingly.

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

So basically you go this route:

- Foil Fetchlands are included in your deck automatically :D my first manabase was really weird, there were even a flooded strand and a playset verdant catacomb just because they were shiny, I'm kind of addicted to them.still didn't had a problem with them.

as many others already stated there is the option to either run bayou or badlands depending on your sideboard choices. (additional empty the warrens?young pyromancer? krosan grip?weird stuff like carpet of flowers or city of solitude?)
then adjust your fetchlands accordingly.

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I've corrected it for you. :tongue:

Stompint the 2 first rounds of the eternal weekend legacy trial. Lets see how it ends today and the tomorrow legacy main event. Lots of delvers u.u


Got a sencond foil japanese tendrills really cheap <3

Ended top 4 the trial. They ended giving the byes to the 1st and second because it was so late apart from other prices.
Played 2 carpets instead of fluster and also my second foil tendrills in side.


Fiodchain 2-0
Lands 2-1
Uwr 1-2
Elves 0-2
Renimator 2-0
Rug post 2-0
Deathblade no hymn 2-1
Top
Elves 2-1
Elves 1-2

R1 foodchain
G1 he gets destroyed
G2 he has 2 drs and i cant win. He draws chain and eats both deathrite to cast a griffin and i decay him so i win.

R2 lands
G1 i just win
G2 he has 2 spheres and cast spells and destroys my lands
G3 he has thalia and sphere but he never cast a spell. I decay his thalia and chain on my turn the spehrre and win with natural chain + tendrills

R3 patriot
G1 he delvers and i get rid of all permision but on my last turn i fall to find a bussines and loose.
G2 i masacre him and after that he is dead
G3 he has 14 lifes. 2 delvers and is full taped. He just casted a tresure. Im at 11. I have. Therapy, massacre, infernal. Ritual. Led. And 2 lands. I try this line. Cabal him. Naming daze. Cast massacre he forces. I cast ritual and led. Then infernal for lethal tendrills. But he didnt had the fow. So i failed by one storm. And drawing a second ritual to just win. So he beats me with a meddling mage.

R4 elves
G1 im dead on his turn 2 ater i duress his NO and he topdeck glimpse
G2 i therpay on glimpse. He dosnt has it. And draws it. And im dead turn 2 again.

R5 renimator
He keeps: petal, carefull, reanimate, fow, ponder, griselbrand on the draw.
He goes petal study and fails to fin land I therapy the reanimate and he never finds a land and losses 2 turns after.
G2 he start seizing himself a griseel and keeped a 1 lander again. I therapy his exume. And he fails again to find land 2. Gg.

R6 rug post
G1 pif
G2 natural tendrills

R7 desthblad with ts and no hymn
G1 he gets destroyed.
G2 2 thoughtseizes, a dearhrite, a fow and a liliana latter im dead.

I know ur readding this. So HI

Enter 7th and play vs elves
G1 he gets destroyed
G2 i have 3x led. Swamp. Petal infernal gitaxian. I pray for no t1 discard. He plays ts and i never get there.
T3 he gets a t2 ad nauseam.

Top 4 vs elves (the one who beat me in swiss.)
G1 he got destroyed
G2 i have a ton of mana and discard.
He topdecks his random nullrod. My cantrips never find a bussines. And i end up loosing to his 3 damage a turn.
G3 i duress his surgical. And he has hoof and 4 more shitty cards. I win next turn if he dosnt draw a therapy. He draws it. Discards the infernal he saw. And i fail again to fin anothrr bussined while he has a symbiote, driad, bayou, drs and visinary going.

So end up without byes and a shitty 100$ store credit. This is sad. Because my opp always topdecked and blow me awaya with his best card 4 times. Sad sad

So lets see how is it tomorrow going. I havent seend much miracles so I think im gonna cut the grips for something cooler.

Ended 7-2-1 sorry guys u.u
Report will follow^^

Damn, sorry about the trial with those bad beats Togores! Losing four games to elves that way must suck pretty hard. Can't wait for your report on the Legacy Champs! Did you make top 16 with 7-2-1?

One of the reasons to play Elves is that we have an absurd amount of finishers ^^
A second reason is that our do-nothing cards beat down in those kinds of situations where neither player can really do much.

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Originally Posted by .Ix

Damn, sorry about the trial with those bad beats Togores! Losing four games to elves that way must suck pretty hard. Can't wait for your report on the Legacy Champs! Did you make top 16 with 7-2-1?

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I ended in 22th place just over reid duke (that means im better than him? *_*) and got 100$ that makesna total of 300$ won im the 3 events played in Us.

An yeah I will write a report and post it as soon as possible.

Discussion Time Folks !

I hope all of you realized that the metagame shifts again,this time in the delve(r)-blue direction.

If we take a look at all the recent top8 decklists there is one thing i would like to underline: The stupid amount of Delverdecks with Treasure Cruise ,mainly UR Superstar Delver which is a turn 4 Deck with counterbackup.

Bug Delver (or should i say Sultai Delver?) has switched discard spells and you will get thought seized more often then hymned in the future.
Some Bug Delver lists don't even play discard anymore.

Anyway, i'm writing this for a specific reason:
How does this Metagame Shift affects us as Stormplayers?

My impressions so far:
We have to face more countermagic and definately more pyroblasts in upcoming tournaments.
combined with angry insects and Swiftspears we are under pressure pretty early in the game so i'm thinking of:

- moving Ad Nauseam in the sideboard
- playing Empty the warrens in the main (even if its bad against Pyromancerdecks,but you still get many freewins)
- play manasupport in the sideboard to combat softcounter.carpet of flowers comes to
mind.
- multiple tendrils of agony to play grinding station (then we only care about flusterstorm and stifle)

Now i want to hear your feedback ad ideas , discussion has been started !

I don't have that too much experience with ANT. But do we need to do anything? This seems like a positive to me, with fewer hymns flying around.

I played 3 U/R delver decks in row last outing and went 2-1, with the loss coming from me trying to be cute and playing Gifts (should have been a Grim Tutor). I only lost because I got stuck on 1 land with a bunch of rituals and no led/petal. It should have been 3-0.

The match-up isn't easy but it doesn't seem that hard to me. They don't have that many hard counters that matter, and without waste/stifle there isn't pressure on your early mana.

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

Discussion Time Folks !

I hope all of you realized that the metagame shifts again,this time in the delve(r)-blue direction.

If we take a look at all the recent top8 decklists there is one thing i would like to underline: The stupid amount of Delverdecks with Treasure Cruise ,mainly UR Superstar Delver which is a turn 4 Deck with counterbackup.

Bug Delver (or should i say Sultai Delver?) has switched discard spells and you will get thought seized more often then hymned in the future.
Some Bug Delver lists don't even play discard anymore.

Anyway, i'm writing this for a specific reason:
How does this Metagame Shift affects us as Stormplayers?

My impressions so far:
We have to face more countermagic and definately more pyroblasts in upcoming tournaments.
combined with angry insects and Swiftspears we are under pressure pretty early in the game so i'm thinking of:

- moving Ad Nauseam in the sideboard
- playing Empty the warrens in the main (even if its bad against Pyromancerdecks,but you still get many freewins)
- play manasupport in the sideboard to combat softcounter.carpet of flowers comes to
mind.
- multiple tendrils of agony to play grinding station (then we only care about flusterstorm and stifle)

Now i want to hear your feedback ad ideas , discussion has been started !

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The shift in the meta more towards U/R Delver and away from traditional BUG delver lists and Miracles is IMO a good one for storm. In the G1's, U/R Delver only has 4 Forces and 4 Dazes with the occasional Pyroblast to impede our plans (this is based on the Legacy Champs lists). Stifle and even Spell Pierce seems absent so there is less countermagic to deal with. These decks seem to rely on primarily one axis to beat storm (countermagic) which typically means we are favored. Could be more problematic if these decks start packing in more Cages/Null Rods in their board. I agree that their quicker aggro/burn makes Ad Nauseum worse, I think swapping it for an Empty post-SB is a fine plan. I think Carpets in the board are unnecessary.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sawatarix

Discussion Time Folks !

I hope all of you realized that the metagame shifts again,this time in the delve(r)-blue direction.

If we take a look at all the recent top8 decklists there is one thing i would like to underline: The stupid amount of Delverdecks with Treasure Cruise ,mainly UR Superstar Delver which is a turn 4 Deck with counterbackup.

Bug Delver (or should i say Sultai Delver?) has switched discard spells and you will get thought seized more often then hymned in the future.
Some Bug Delver lists don't even play discard anymore.

Anyway, i'm writing this for a specific reason:
How does this Metagame Shift affects us as Stormplayers?

My impressions so far:
We have to face more countermagic and definately more pyroblasts in upcoming tournaments.
combined with angry insects and Swiftspears we are under pressure pretty early in the game so i'm thinking of:

- moving Ad Nauseam in the sideboard
- playing Empty the warrens in the main (even if its bad against Pyromancerdecks,but you still get many freewins)
- play manasupport in the sideboard to combat softcounter.carpet of flowers comes to
mind.
- multiple tendrils of agony to play grinding station (then we only care about flusterstorm and stifle)

Now i want to hear your feedback ad ideas , discussion has been started !

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agree the direction is fine for now, luckiĺy everyone runs Huang based version
-key aspect is staying out of the U-R war
-I hope that Blood Moon argument (goyf decks) for straight U/R will outperform B splash (combo) - that would result in a nightmare
-UR runs agressively, spends most of their mana asap so SP is not interesting for MD, nor Stifle - key aspects of former UR w Goblin Guide, one discard should be enough, TC is just more cantrips most of the time = you don't care
-permission is also +1dmg with Swiftspear (Ponder->GP, Bolt, Daze that, fow daze = 9dmg turn) that could be unpredictable as every lifepoint matters
-current version run 0 GY hate, if it ever runs something it's a Relic of Progenitus to hose Goyf, DRS and the mirror

= it's impossible to be a negative MU, basicaly this should be better than Burn as a discard to eliminate 50% chance to lose is not mandatory T2

... it's hard to predic but hopefully SCG noncombo meta will back Ant with clown stuff like UWR and Elves catching on

Yeah this seems like a great development for us (until they start splashing 6 discard or playing a bunch of permanent hate postboard).
In the US meta I'd play Empty main. I'm not sold on Carpet unless everyone starts playing Stifle, since most lists play 0 Wastes, 0 Stifles. But 1-2 are surely an option.
I still don't like multiple Tendrils.

While it's a good news if people drop Stifles and Wastelands for turn 3-4 Treasure Cruises, the point to have a close eye onto is if graveyard hate increases as a result of TC/DTT while dealing splash damage to DRS/Goose/Goyf/Cabal Ritual/PIF/etc.

I defeated a lot of ur in the eternal weekend. Tonight or tomorrow I will write a report. But I sided :
On the draw
2 decay
2 carpet
2nd tendrills
For
1 nauseam
2 sensei
2 petal

On the play
3 decay
2 carpet
2nd tendrills.
For
1 nauseam
2 sensei
2 petal
1 preordain

Destroyed them all preaty easy like in the fetured match.

Here a summed report of the events already posted here and the new report of the eternal weekend main event.

http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...491#post843491

I agree with all of you guys saying that these new UR Huang lists are a really favorable match-up for us. I was thinking about what to board in the match-up and I thought that not boarding at all would be a fairly good solution for me. But there are some cards we don't want, just like Top, and maybe Ad Nauseam. I don't think I'll add specific sideboard cards like Carpet of Flowers, but it's really good, and Empty the Warrens is too. From a standard board I would bring in 2 Flusterstorms for a Top and Ad Nauseam, and, if I have it, I would be bringing in also EtW.

Talking about how Treasure Cruise and UR affect the metagame: I saw a lot of non-red (or not completely :tongue:) delver decks, like BUG, which is shifting from a more midrange plan to a full tempo plan, with stifles and cruise, and often no discard like Sawatarix said. Also I saw some 4-colours Delver, which is rising in popularity. Those decks have cruises, which means less room for denial spells and taxing counters. A lot of times they will have no Snare and a few Spell Pierces.
Also I don't think that Miracles is going away, because it's still the go-to deck for loads of people who saw the amazing performances it had just some weeks ago. Also because it has a good match-up against UR "Huang" I think. And also, I see Deathblade spreading a bit, but that's good news for me, since it's a pretty good match-up :smile:

What about the impact of increased graveyard hate?

PiF seems to be the main way I win these days.

Graveyard hate is more common these days,true.
Luckily we have 4 Routes to win and 3 of them don't care about GY:

Ad Nauseam kill (ok)
Tutor Chain (ok)
Storm X route (ok)

So we are fine actually.
Even a resolved RIP isn't disastrous.

Currently i'm toying around with Gifts Ungiven and goldfishing it.I like the card in theory and it is not that clunky as expected.
Try it yourself:
Draw 6 cards+ gifts ungiven as an opening hand and tell me your results.How often do you cast it as a setup,how often in the comboturn itself?
I have taken 50 hands so far and among them i had
21 Setup-gifts and 29 Combo-gifts.