[Deck] Vial Goblins

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Originally Posted by Stevestamopz

I disagree with the above posts. 3 Marshall and 4 Drivers is perfect for Goblins gameplay; bit of mana-denial, bit of removal, all of a sudden you explode onto the board thanks to a Ringleader and a Warchief. It's been 6 years since that plan was effective but now it actually has a chance.

I would certainly go up to 4 Gempalms though, that card is an essential engine piece of Goblins in a world without Deathrite.

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Piledriver wasn’t played as a four of 6 years ago. It’s been awhile since that’s been the case.

The issue with running that many is you drop some pile drivers, ok, but depending on the board state you cannot profitably attack. Thalia can just stonewall him. Or he just gets chumped.

I’d rather wait to hit a matron or ringleader one of our top end cards, siege/krenko/Kiki and just bust the game wide open. I find with x2 Krenko, he is closing out games alongside a haste lord In one big turn, usually right after I’m able to find whatever toolbox I need. The grindy attrition game is going to give us he best chance to win in most matchups.

Also, TNN wasn't a thing, right? The bulk of your damage can't be stopped by the merfolk rogue, nor Strix or Snapcaster.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stevestamopz

I disagree with the above posts. 3 Marshall and 4 Drivers is perfect for Goblins gameplay; bit of mana-denial, bit of removal, all of a sudden you explode onto the board thanks to a Ringleader and a Warchief. It's been 6 years since that plan was effective but now it actually has a chance.

I would certainly go up to 4 Gempalms though, that card is an essential engine piece of Goblins in a world without Deathrite.

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It's perfect for Goblins gameplay in magical christmas land where your opponent has no removal or blockers and your Ringleaders always hit 3+ cards.
Piledriver in Goblins is like playing Stormchaser Mage as a wincondition in an Ancestral Visions deck. It kind of looks like it makes sense and it's probably good enough to win some games, but it's not an optimal finisher for the overall gameplan and you would win more matches if it was something else instead

I agree that you want to play as many Gempalms as you can afford but I think even with a DRS ban it's still probably too greedy to play all 4

Almost all of the lists that put up results pre DRS/2013 were playing 3 or 4 Piledrivers lol. What are you talking about?

http://mtgtop8.com/archetype?a=18&meta=6&f=LE

While piledriver has some downsides, it's the best way to quickly close games. It allows you to start with significant pressure off a vial on 2 while porting people down for example. There just isn't another 2drop that really does that, and its a way that really fits the "delver" playstyle (early threat + denial) so I think that its not a mistake to run piledriver. I rather not give them infinite time and try to 4drop them, feels like way too many things have to go right then.

1st league with list posted above, (chieftain over trashmaster, as trashmaster isn't on MTGO yet)

List:
4 Aether Vial
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
11 Mountain
4 Goblin Lackey
4 Goblin Matron
4 Goblin Ringleader
4 Goblin Warchief
3 Mogg War Marshal
3 Gempalm Incinerator
4 Goblin Piledriver
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Tarfire
1 Stingscourger
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Goblin Settler
1 Skirk Prospector
1 Goblin Chieftain

Sideboard:
2 Pyrokinesis
2 Blood Moon
2 Damping Sphere
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Stingscourger
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
3 Thorn of Amethyst
1 Goblin Sharpshooter


R1: Storm W(2-1)
R2: RB Reanimator W(2-0)
R3: UW Stoneblade L(1-2) [Probably would've won if I had trashmaster g1, as i lost to their artifacts with cavern in play]
R4: RB Reanimator L(0-2)
R5: Miracles W(2-1) [4 color, had an usea but also multiple EE main, punted g2 where i made a bad attack and a jace lived]

I brought in thorn vs miracles but he had a ton of disenchants and the like, so if that is going to be a problem we might have to include maybe pyroblasts?

Macabres were great esp when bringing in thorns against reanimator. The trashmaster seems like its going to great, can't wait until after this weekend. The mana denial plan singlehandedly won the first two (kind of hard) matches and seems great going forward. Settler was not as good as I thought, but 100% worth the 1st inclusion, as when it hits (which can be kind of hard) it usually is lights out. If stoneforge picks up in popularity more tarfires might be necissery, or including the 4th gempalm (but i think i like the first over the latter). Cavern was A M A Z I N G, and not playing 4 seems like a mistake.

EDIT: The sideboard seemed good, except for the sharpshooter/chainwhirler slot. Probably will slot in an extra macabre as RB reanimator doesnt go away and that matchup is g1 really tough

I've been running the list I posted (minus Trashmaster) on the past weeks and it was doing good with those 2 drops and 4 Piledriver.
Didn't miss more late game cards at all.
Also, Krenko works best with more haste lords, 4 doesn't seem enough to make him work best.

Also, I dont't think we need that many late game cards. The deck already has grindy potential with Matron + Ringleader and 1 SGC, IMO.
Jim Davis also likes something in those lines for Goblins and he is someone who really knows the deck.

Maybe it's play style differences, but this kind of list suits the way I like to play.

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Originally Posted by r497

I've been running the list I posted (minus Trashmaster) on the past weeks and it was doing good with those 2 drops and 4 Piledriver.
Didn't miss more late game cards at all.
Also, Krenko works best with more haste lords, 4 doesn't seem enough to make him work best.

Also, I dont't think we need that many late game cards. The deck already has grindy potential with Matron + Ringleader and 1 SGC, IMO.
Jim Davis also likes something in those lines for Goblins and he is someone who really knows the deck.

Maybe it's play style differences, but this kind of list suits the way I like to play.

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Agreed, the grind is already great (i mean, its not rare to grind out even miracles) and doesn't need too much more.

Can't wait for trashmaster, every sfm deck i face so far seems like i autowin if i had access to a trashmaster to tutor up.

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Originally Posted by Kofurea

While piledriver has some downsides, it's the best way to quickly close games. It allows you to start with significant pressure off a vial on 2 while porting people down for example. There just isn't another 2drop that really does that, and its a way that really fits the "delver" playstyle (early threat + denial) so I think that its not a mistake to run piledriver. I rather not give them infinite time and try to 4drop them, feels like way too many things have to go right then.

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Oh right, when I say Piledriver is bad I don't mean it should be cut for like 8 MWMs or more 5 drops to get super grindy/defensive (because you can even play the new MWM from M19 if you want), I still think having a clock is good but I just think Piledriver is terrible compared to Rabblemaster

Rabblemaster is the best way to quickly close games
Piledriver is faster if you have a draw with a nice curve and the opponent isn't interacting with you, but it's way worse if:
A) You didn't have a nice curve of Goblins (this is even more likely to happen when you are using your early turns to cast Thorns and shit vs combo which is where Piledriver is supposed to excel)
B) Your opponent has removal / blockers / Hymn / counters for your other dudes leaving you with a 3/2 or even a 1/2

If you look at Rabblemaster and you think "Hmmm this seems good but I am afraid of all my other Goblins being forced to attack", then:
A) If you want Piledriver to do anything your other Goblins still have to attack, so you don't even really avoid this drawback
B) You can build your deck in a way that you don't get punished by this by playing fewer Gray Ogres and more removal spells (which correctly lines up with the control strategy of getting to the lategame where you can leverage Ringleader advantage). If you have Piledriver + Warchief vs a TNN or a Thalia or a Tarmogoyf then you're still screwed even though you don't have to attack with anything. If you have Rabble + Weirding then you're in a much better position.

On the other hand if you look at Rabblemaster and think "I wouldn't play this card even if it didn't aggro/taunt all my goblins" then in my humble opinion your brain is stuck in a timewarp from 2008

I agree that only costing 2 is a nice fact about Piledriver but if Aether Vial sticks and I have Port going then I don't really care about my manacurve because I should be favoured in that game anyway.
You can fill that spot on your curve with other 2s (Sparksmith, Weirding)

Both my testing and replays I have watched suggest to me that Piledriver is nice when it works but this is outweighed by the many situations vs fair decks where it's just completely irrelevant
You're welcome to disagree and I obviously don't have any way to prove I'm right about this, I just haven't found anything to convince me otherwise

So many nonsense things I wanna share with allu :D

Piledriver, in my humble opinion, is awesome against low decks, but I don't think we need x4 in the recent meta (with or without drs/gp), I play one copy side, I played in main but finally I often ended up moving it to side in T2 . It's a card I don't want in my opening hand. Our probably FOWed turn 1 vial allows us to cast piledriver in the second turn yeah! (a wise opponent is going to let him get in) What's more, next goblin we play will be wiped 100% sure and, eot3 our main threat will be an 1/2. It's too slow against 80% of the decks. One single copy to be tutored is different, we will call him when we need him, not before.

Anyway, I'm torn between deciding control list (port/mwm/...) vs assault list (instigator/bloodmoon/noports). I was testing the second one yesterday (new rules) being aware that I was going to face many new expected stuffs like reanimators, canadians, dredges... I made 2-1-1 (wins against pox and miracles - draw against maverick, loss against canadian). List is quite similar as the link you shared several days ago but with some changes. I play with badlands and fetchs, I think they help to avoid land draws in the mid-game but overall, I can play the understimated earwig squad, 1 main 1 side. These friendly peers make you win many matches. You can play them with caverns but 4 copies are not enough. Ex:

Yesterday earwig ate:
Miracles: I extirpated 3 jaces, so I only need to play around 2 mentors as its unique wincon...
Maverick: equipments and others.
Pox: ensnaring/toxic/...
...

I really thing they worth.

Finally, the main trouble of this deck, in my opinion, still being the same. Opening hands with 3x 3R/2R goblins, 1 removal, 3xlands. Mulligan. I don't know but I'm always watching videos on the internet where people draw Cavern, mountain, wasteland, vial, lackey, removal, threat. I always draw wasteland, wasteland, kikijiki, ringsleader,matron,gempalm,cheiftain. Sure bad luck, mulli: mountain+5 goblins, come on! This is the real world!

Apart from cries, enjoy playing.

(sorry my english btw)

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Originally Posted by cheinp

Anyway, I'm torn between deciding control list (port/mwm/...) vs assault list (instigator/bloodmoon/noports). I was testing the second one yesterday (new rules) being aware that I was going to face many new expected stuffs like reanimators, canadians, dredges... I made 2-1-1 (wins against pox and miracles - draw against maverick, loss against canadian). List is quite similar as the link you shared several days ago but with some changes. I play with badlands and fetchs, I think they help to avoid land draws in the mid-game but overall, I can play the understimated earwig squad, 1 main 1 side. These friendly peers make you win many matches. You can play them with caverns but 4 copies are not enough. Ex:

Yesterday earwig ate:
Miracles: I extirpated 3 jaces, so I only need to play around 2 mentors as its unique wincon...
Maverick: equipments and others.
Pox: ensnaring/toxic/...
...

I really thing they worth.

Finally, the main trouble of this deck, in my opinion, still being the same. Opening hands with 3x 3R/2R goblins, 1 removal, 3xlands. Mulligan. I don't know but I'm always watching videos on the internet where people draw Cavern, mountain, wasteland, vial, lackey, removal, threat. I always draw wasteland, wasteland, kikijiki, ringsleader,matron,gempalm,cheiftain. Sure bad luck, mulli: mountain+5 goblins, come on! This is the real world!

Apart from cries, enjoy playing.

(sorry my english btw)

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Point by point: I don't see any reason to play the winstigator list as its a low disruption medium aggro deck, you're better off playing something like infect or dragon stompy imo if you're thinking of running that

The earwig seems fine, but you have to run black and spoil the nice hard to wasteland/back to basics manabase which i'm not sure is worth. If 50% of the meta seems to be fast combo it probably is correct though, but I don't think it currently falls that way.

I have had very little real mulliganning problems to be honest. What list are you running?

I was absolutely running 4 Goblin Piledrivers in 2012, and hell I did it in 2016.

Admittedly I might have a bias, others on the thread have been trying to get me to run less for a long time, and only recently have I done so. My latest list only had 2, and now that Deathrite Shaman is gone, I can happily get my Tarmogoyf trading, Combo Killing, Swords to Plowshares soaking 2 cost back. I love that explosiveness combo element he adds, and how it just gets people.

Goblin Piledriver is the best aggressive pivot the deck has access too, and until Eidolon of the Great Akki, or Goblin Freebooter comes out it's frankly our best bet game 1 against combo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cheinp

So many nonsense things I wanna share with allu :D

Piledriver, in my humble opinion, is awesome against low decks, but I don't think we need x4 in the recent meta (with or without drs/gp), I play one copy side, I played in main but finally I often ended up moving it to side in T2 . It's a card I don't want in my opening hand. Our probably FOWed turn 1 vial allows us to cast piledriver in the second turn yeah! (a wise opponent is going to let him get in) What's more, next goblin we play will be wiped 100% sure and, eot3 our main threat will be an 1/2. It's too slow against 80% of the decks. One single copy to be tutored is different, we will call him when we need him, not before.

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This is pretty much my experience with him as well. He is attacking as a 3/2 if they're controlling our board (which i expect more fatal push now that DRS is gone, believe that). You do get the scenarios where they are forced to trade their 8/8 knight of the reliquary or 5/6 goyf for your 9/2 piledriver. And we should always be willing to trade creature for creature against most decks. More often than not though for me at least, he is waiting to build a big board, or you do decide to swing out like that and offer the trade and he gets punishing fired (this card will make a comeback with no DRS, as well) or some other removal, then you look really bad.

If you want to play 4 piledrivers, by all means. When you put a card as a 4 of in your deck though, you are saying that you always want to draw that card in multiples in a game (matron/ringleader/vial/lackey) and I just have a hard time putting him in that category. I'm running 2 with 3 war marshalls as my other two drop slot.

Guess my memory of 2012 was wrong, but those lists aren't playing a lot of cards we use a lot now, namely tarfire. I'm not shaving on these personally, as i still want instant speed removal that hits 80% of the creatures in the format. I'm still kind of evolving what I want to be playing, might try out 3 piledrivers for a more aggro heavy list.

Morning Everyone,

I'm very new with the deck, but am excited as aggro has always been my archetype and since zoo still seems unplayable, well, here I am. I've been running a mono R winstigator list with some slight tweaks to the main, somewhat of a concession to play style but mostly to fit the theme of getting 3/4 drops into play with tapping the least number of lands possible.

Some obvious changes from the more stock lists are warchief over chieftan, and 4 spirit guides over chrome moxen.

The sideboard is a mess, I know, but I will get to the things I've liked and not liked. I am much less worried about the SB as I imagine it will solve itself as the meta has a more obvious threat to face off against.

From the sideboard, most cards I am unsure about. With that said, the cards that have over performed were 3 ensnaring bridge. I've brought ensnaring bridge in, effectively every match up. Jamming 15/16 damage against fair decks, getting trapped by their larger critters, and then building up a presence to alpha has been great. Non-storm decks, also stumble against it, although abrupt decay and echoing truth were probably on the way in (from reanimator and sneak show respectively), sticking a t2 bridge has yielded enough of a moments piece to get an extra combat step or two. It hasn't won me all my games against combo but it provided more than just grave hate in the form of interaction.

Fair match ups still feel too balanced, and I imagine there is something I am doing wrong/boarding incorrectly that is slowing me down versus maverick and stoneblade, but those have been on the 50/50 side of games.

I'm definitely excited to continue to improve with the deck, but if any of the veterans see obvious red flags, feel free to point them out.

Current iteration:

8 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Aether Vial

3 Tarfire
4 Goblin Lackey
2 Warren Instigator
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chainwhirler
3 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Settler
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sweltering Suns
SB: 2 Abrade
SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Dead // Gone

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Originally Posted by Kobra_D

Morning Everyone,

I'm very new with the deck, but am excited as aggro has always been my archetype and since zoo still seems unplayable, well, here I am. I've been running a mono R winstigator list with some slight tweaks to the main, somewhat of a concession to play style but mostly to fit the theme of getting 3/4 drops into play with tapping the least number of lands possible.

Some obvious changes from the more stock lists are warchief over chieftan, and 4 spirit guides over chrome moxen.

The sideboard is a mess, I know, but I will get to the things I've liked and not liked. I am much less worried about the SB as I imagine it will solve itself as the meta has a more obvious threat to face off against.

From the sideboard, most cards I am unsure about. With that said, the cards that have over performed were 3 ensnaring bridge. I've brought ensnaring bridge in, effectively every match up. Jamming 15/16 damage against fair decks, getting trapped by their larger critters, and then building up a presence to alpha has been great. Non-storm decks, also stumble against it, although abrupt decay and echoing truth were probably on the way in (from reanimator and sneak show respectively), sticking a t2 bridge has yielded enough of a moments piece to get an extra combat step or two. It hasn't won me all my games against combo but it provided more than just grave hate in the form of interaction.

Fair match ups still feel too balanced, and I imagine there is something I am doing wrong/boarding incorrectly that is slowing me down versus maverick and stoneblade, but those have been on the 50/50 side of games.

I'm definitely excited to continue to improve with the deck, but if any of the veterans see obvious red flags, feel free to point them out.

Current iteration:

8 Mountain
4 Cavern of Souls
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port

4 Simian Spirit Guide
4 Aether Vial

3 Tarfire
4 Goblin Lackey
2 Warren Instigator
2 Goblin Piledriver
1 Stingscourger
3 Gempalm Incinerator
1 Goblin Chainwhirler
3 Goblin Warchief
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
4 Goblin Matron
1 Goblin Settler
1 Tuktuk Scrapper
4 Goblin Ringleader
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker

SB: 3 Ensnaring Bridge
SB: 2 Pyrokinesis
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 1 Sweltering Suns
SB: 2 Abrade
SB: 3 Mindbreak Trap
SB: 2 Dead // Gone

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Well I'd say I see a giant red flag in that you're playing simian spirit guide. The card is terrible in Goblins, always has been. To emphasize: THIS IS NOT AN AGGRO DECK. If you play it like one, you will lose a lot. I'd immediately cut those guides for 2-3 chrome mox and another mountain. Your deck just will not function consistently with only 12 permanent red sources. 4 ports in winstigator is also super ambitious, the chance you have double red on t2 is pretty small.
Ensnaring Bridge is not a card you want in fair matchups because those matchups you want 4-6 cards in hand from matroning and ringleadering. I can't fathom why you'd play Sweltering Suns, why would you play a board wipe that kills all your own stuff too? If you want that effect play Sudden Demise. Dead//Gone seems pretty niche, and overall weak. You're horribly soft to storm and other combo decks, you need something like Chalice, Thorn, or Damping Sphere.

4-1 On Mengucci/Foulkes stream

4 Cavern
1 Pendelhaven
3 Port
4 Wasteland
11 Mountain

4 Vial

4 Tarfire
2 Pyrokinesis

4 Lackey
4 MWM
1 Stingscourger
4 Incinerator
4 Matron
3 Chieftain
1 Chainwhirler
3 Ringleader
1 Krenko
2 SGC

SB
3 Surgical
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Ringleader
2 Moon
1 Sharpshooter
2 Scrapper
1 D-Sphere
1 Needle
1 Winter Orb
2 Relic

Started 2-0 2-0 2-0 2-0 vs UWR Delver, Pox, Eldrazi Stompy, and the Mirror, then Lost 1-2 to Canadian

He/they made a non-obvious punt G1 vs Canadian by playing turn 1 Lackey on the play and not attacking it into Nimble Mongoose turn 2

There was a weird line in the mirror match where it was obvious that neither side realised that Gempalm counts all goblins in play (you and the opponents), this may become more of a common occurrence going forward.

The list is fine, I think you want the 4th Ringleader maindeck and a Trashmaster cutting either 1 Pyro 1 SGC or 1 MWM

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Originally Posted by 1GoblinLackey

Well I'd say I see a giant red flag in that you're playing simian spirit guide. The card is terrible in Goblins, always has been. To emphasize: THIS IS NOT AN AGGRO DECK. If you play it like one, you will lose a lot. I'd immediately cut those guides for 2-3 chrome mox and another mountain. Your deck just will not function consistently with only 12 permanent red sources. 4 ports in winstigator is also super ambitious, the chance you have double red on t2 is pretty small.
Ensnaring Bridge is not a card you want in fair matchups because those matchups you want 4-6 cards in hand from matroning and ringleadering. I can't fathom why you'd play Sweltering Suns, why would you play a board wipe that kills all your own stuff too? If you want that effect play Sudden Demise. Dead//Gone seems pretty niche, and overall weak. You're horribly soft to storm and other combo decks, you need something like Chalice, Thorn, or Damping Sphere.

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It's not about being an aggro deck, it's about having 2 red mana on turn 1, and then using ports and wasteland from there on out. Which, kind of is an aggro deck. I get that goblins is more of a midrange deck as compared to burn, but I feel as if it is still more aggro than D&T, which to my dismay is often classified as aggro.

The permanent red count is low, but the red count is not. Goblin Warchief is meant to mitigate this some what as my 3 mana choice over chieftan. I'm hoping that trashmaster relieves me from missing any lord effect but I haven't really found myself needing chieftan as my out.

The fair match ups with bridge are for things like, sword of fire and ice, or umezawa's jitte. I've faced 6 stoneblade decks in my first 25 runs and it is definitely on my list as a concern moving forward.

Dead//Gone gives outs to Depths and reanimator, which are otherwise, unfavorable matchups it seems. Which is what I was looking for in a sb card. Naturally speaking, there aren't a lot of answers in monoR and so I've been checking out some "weird" tech for sure.

Sure, I'm soft to storm, but I do have 5 reasonable cards at the moment, and like I said, the board will change, but I'd rather see things moving forward first to know what to account for.

Sweltering suns was a try out for 2 reasons, if I could get a 3 for 1 when an opponent overcommited a little bit, perfect. If I didn't need it, then cycle it away. It's not that you would cast it into your own goblins, it's when your own goblins ate a bunch of their spot removal. I do think access to an effect like that moving forward may be useful, and I didn't know about sudden demise, that is something I'm going to try next.

All that said, I'm still very new to the deck, and I am in no way saying that any of my card choices above should be treated as streamlined or anything, but just that the future is all of a sudden open, and I enjoy playing a lot of magic, so some of these things that seem to be a concern, I'm willing to try. That is all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kombatkiwi

4-1 On Mengucci/Foulkes stream

4 Cavern
1 Pendelhaven
3 Port
4 Wasteland
11 Mountain

4 Vial

4 Tarfire
2 Pyrokinesis

4 Lackey
4 MWM
1 Stingscourger
4 Incinerator
4 Matron
3 Chieftain
1 Chainwhirler
3 Ringleader
1 Krenko
2 SGC

SB
3 Surgical
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Ringleader
2 Moon
1 Sharpshooter
2 Scrapper
1 D-Sphere
1 Needle
1 Winter Orb
2 Relic

Started 2-0 2-0 2-0 2-0 vs UWR Delver, Pox, Eldrazi Stompy, and the Mirror, then Lost 1-2 to Canadian

He/they made a non-obvious punt G1 vs Canadian by playing turn 1 Lackey on the play and not attacking it into Nimble Mongoose turn 2

There was a weird line in the mirror match where it was obvious that neither side realised that Gempalm counts all goblins in play (you and the opponents), this may become more of a common occurrence going forward.

The list is fine, I think you want the 4th Ringleader maindeck and a Trashmaster cutting either 1 Pyro 1 SGC or 1 MWM

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With all the talk here about piledrivers, this is pretty interesting list. 0 in the 75 is not what i'd expect to see. That's a lot of removal, too.

What matchup is winter orb for?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bichon_Blitz

With all the talk here about piledrivers, this is pretty interesting list. 0 in the 75 is not what i'd expect to see. That's a lot of removal, too.

What matchup is winter orb for?

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I don't think Winter Orb is good in this deck, all the matchups you would want it you should be favoured anyway (they didn't board it in vs anything and I didn't hear them say anything about it)

Piledriver sucks lol

Edit:

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The fair match ups with bridge are for things like, sword of fire and ice, or umezawa's jitte. I've faced 6 stoneblade decks in my first 25 runs and it is definitely on my list as a concern moving forward.

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This is what artifact destruction is for, with 1 card in hand you still lose to SFM with a Jitte on it. As was pointed out this is not a deck that empties its hand quickly so you may even have problems stopping TNNs etc

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Dead//Gone gives outs to Depths and reanimator, which are otherwise, unfavorable matchups it seems. Which is what I was looking for in a sb card. Naturally speaking, there aren't a lot of answers in monoR and so I've been checking out some "weird" tech for sure.

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This is an okay idea but it overlaps with Ensnaring Bridge a lot (if you still want to play that) and you already have Stingscourger to give you this effect

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Sweltering suns was a try out for 2 reasons, if I could get a 3 for 1 when an opponent overcommited a little bit, perfect. If I didn't need it, then cycle it away. It's not that you would cast it into your own goblins, it's when your own goblins ate a bunch of their spot removal. I do think access to an effect like that moving forward may be useful, and I didn't know about sudden demise, that is something I'm going to try next.

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If you need to kill a lot of really tiny guys then you have Sharpshooter or Chainwhirler and if your opponent has 3 2/2s then they're probably playing a deck that loses to Gempalm Incinerator / Ringleader. Playing a 1RR sorcery is going to be difficult sometimes and I think in the vast majority of situations where you want this card it's going to be worse than Pyrokinesis. Sideboard slots are quite precious imo, you don't want to be wasting them on effects that are so borderline that you're justifying it with "well if I draw this in an awkward spot I can just cycle it"

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Originally Posted by Kobra_D

It's not about being an aggro deck, it's about having 2 red mana on turn 1, and then using ports and wasteland from there on out. Which, kind of is an aggro deck. I get that goblins is more of a midrange deck as compared to burn, but I feel as if it is still more aggro than D&T, which to my dismay is often classified as aggro.

The permanent red count is low, but the red count is not. Goblin Warchief is meant to mitigate this some what as my 3 mana choice over chieftan. I'm hoping that trashmaster relieves me from missing any lord effect but I haven't really found myself needing chieftan as my out.

The fair match ups with bridge are for things like, sword of fire and ice, or umezawa's jitte. I've faced 6 stoneblade decks in my first 25 runs and it is definitely on my list as a concern moving forward.

Dead//Gone gives outs to Depths and reanimator, which are otherwise, unfavorable matchups it seems. Which is what I was looking for in a sb card. Naturally speaking, there aren't a lot of answers in monoR and so I've been checking out some "weird" tech for sure.

Sure, I'm soft to storm, but I do have 5 reasonable cards at the moment, and like I said, the board will change, but I'd rather see things moving forward first to know what to account for.

Sweltering suns was a try out for 2 reasons, if I could get a 3 for 1 when an opponent overcommited a little bit, perfect. If I didn't need it, then cycle it away. It's not that you would cast it into your own goblins, it's when your own goblins ate a bunch of their spot removal. I do think access to an effect like that moving forward may be useful, and I didn't know about sudden demise, that is something I'm going to try next.

All that said, I'm still very new to the deck, and I am in no way saying that any of my card choices above should be treated as streamlined or anything, but just that the future is all of a sudden open, and I enjoy playing a lot of magic, so some of these things that seem to be a concern, I'm willing to try. That is all.

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First off, sorry for being curt and kinda rude in my response. I had been answering goblin questions all over the internet and had begun to kinda lose it.

Anyway, to your points: Warchief provides mana, but in a limited way. He more than anything else will make you feel starved for red sources. If you have a matron in hand and warchief in play, the only limiting factor is your red mana. This is why you do not want spirit guides. Spirit Guides also make you extremely susceptible to removal. Say you go Spirit Guide + Cavern winstigator, pass on the play. Your opponent bolts your winstigator. Now, you are HUGELY behind. Their bolt basically 2-1'd you. Chrome Mox requires another red card in your hand, but if you chrome mox out a winstigator then get to play a turn 2 matron after winstigator got bolted, you're still totally fine, you're still ahead on mana, and matron puts you up a card. Spirit guide is played in red decks like Prison Stompy archetypes because the stuff they are powering out is intended to stop the opponent from playing the game at all. It doesn't matter if you 2-1'd yourself if half your opponent's deck is turned off via blood moon or chalice. Goblins just isn't that kinda deck. We are a late game deck, first and foremost. The aim of the deck is to live to turn 5-6, at which point you can turn the corner with your superior card advantage. I also really have to emphasize that spirit guide and rishadan port just should never be played in the same deck. Port demands a lot of permanent mana sources to be at all useful. There's a reason all the decks that play port play 23 lands like D&T, or even more (Lands).

I still don't understand how ensnaring bridge helps you in fair matchups. Sure if there's giant stuff like Knight of the Reliquary or Goyf or Angler, it can be theoretically good, but it is the world's biggest nonbo with Ringleader and Matron. Goblins is a deck that is trying to accumulate cards in its hand, not spit them out onto the battlefield ASAP. Ensnaring Bridge also is pretty bad against Jitte specifically, since they can attack with a small creature then use the counters to shrink the creature then pump it before damage. The chances that you actually lock out a deck like stoneblade with bridge are low. They'll either attack your mana/vials leaving you with a bunch of cards stranded in hand, or just kill you with jace ultimate. Or just abrupt decay. Ensnaring Bridge isn't terrible in a goblin board, but should be specifically sided in vs Show and Tell and Marit Lage decks, and that's about it. Anything else, and you are likely just hurting your own game plan. Remember that every non-goblin you have in your deck has a very serious cost because of ringleader. In fair matchups, I try to not let my ringleader "hits" drop below 29-30 after sideboarding. Any more than that, and you are neutering your best tool.

I think Sudden Demise is near strictly better than Suns. Pyrokinesis should handle your board wiping needs though. The only true sweeper I've seen played in goblins that makes sense to me is toxic deluge, and that's if you're really really scared of True Name Nemesis.

Dead//Gone is a good effect, but too expensive. 3 mana is just not fast enough against Reanimator and is hard to hold up against Lands/Depths. A second stingscourger along with some other grave hate effect would likely be much better. I'd strongly advise Relic of Progenitus.

I hope this explains things better.