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Urborg, like Riftstone Portal, is an underappreciated card. Lands requires a lot of mana each turn if you're locking someone down with Ports and replaying Loam and cycling, or if you're activating manlands, or if you're trasmuting Tolaria West, or if you're playing Worm Harvest, or if you're playing Mindslaver. Just because you have a lot of lands in your deck doesn't mean you can't be mana-screwed or color-screwed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
Yeah, I know. But if you're locking down people with Ports and playing multiple Loams and is in a stage where you don't need your Mazes, why don't you bring back some other lands instead your 6 lands that don't add mana instead?Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
When you're activating manlands or playing Mindslaver or the garbage that is Worm Harvest, you are already winning. You should just wait until you found another land and then do it all. It's only aceptable if the time is short, mas STILL is a bad card to run in any other case.
Transmute Tolaria West? Tapping one of the non-mana producers, counting that your ONE Urborg in play, only to get one extra mana? And Urborg adds black mana, not blue... Can't understand that...
(GOD FORBID YOU TO WASTE A TOLARIA WEST FETCHING SUCH A BAD CARD)
Also, Urborg makes you opponent fetchlands tapping for mana. Just saying.
I can't remember last time I was mana-screwed, but the color problem I've found a great solution: CUT BLACK.
Of course, if you are short on mana, regardless of how many lands you have in play, you aren't going to get to that stage as quickly, and maybe you won't get there at all. So, in other words, you won't be activating manlands or playing Mindslaver or playing Worm Harvest. In my experience, having lands that allow you to turn on your Mazes, Chasm and Tabernacle is essential, whether that's Riftstone Portal or Urborg, or a combination of the two. You seem to disagree. To each his own, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
I'm just in no hurry to win. I can just stall the game and finish the job in turn 40.Quote:
Originally Posted by ESG
And what real benefit do you get from that? You loose game 1, you loose the round!Quote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
The real benefit is doing all this on Game 1, so I don't have to worry about losing. Also, I still can play Mindslaver about two turns after any player running bad cards, and with no hurry because while they play a bad swamp, I play one more lock piece.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
Anyway, don't waste e-ink trying to convince me use Urborg or Riftstone Portal. I don't have any flex slot to waste with any of those, and even if I had, I would just play more Tranquil Thickets.
Well, if can give us your list with some tips for an unlooseable G1, i would be graceful.
Already posted in the last page. I don't know about you, but I can't see myself losing to anything besides some form of combo, that's why I believe this deck is so well positioned in today's meta. Well, I'm having some trouble with Vial Aggro, but I wanna believe it's because I sux at Magic the Gathering.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenCid
New list without Urborg, but with portal
//Lands
1 Glacial Chasm
1 The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale
4 Maze of Ith
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
2 Tolaria West
2 Tranquil Thicket
1 Karakas
1 Horizon Canopy
3 Tropical Island
2 Savannah
1 Forest
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Academy Ruins
2 Nantuko Monastery
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Riftstone Portal
1 Celestial Colonnade
// Not Lands
4 Exploration
2 Manabond
4 Mox Diamond
3 Intuition
2 Enlightened Tutor
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Mindslaver
4 Life from the Loam
So, I decided to revive my Lands deck for a small tournament tonight and had a really interesting thought: why not replace Mishra's Factory with Inkmoth Nexus and Kessig Wolf Run? My ratio tonight was 4x nexus and 1x wolf run, and they were great. The flying is super relevant, and being able to just tap out an win vastly speeds up the clock of the deck.
I haven't put ANY testing into this idea, just threw it together an hour before the four-round tournament, so it could be garbage. Anyone else tried this out?
Quote:
Originally Posted by antipode3141592
How did the tournament go? I would love to hear your experience with it.
would like to know anyone had tried cursed scroll as a 1 or 2 of before?
I was thinking about Inkmoth, but it's worse in aggro matchups and the lifeloss is quite relevante versus Ad Nauseam. I don't know if I like it.
really? my opinion is the deck is dead actually... the number of Surgical extractions played - now with Snapcaster and frequent use of V. Cliques... I can't imagine Lands to have actual tournament success other than by weird coincidenceQuote:
Originally Posted by Fuzzy
Hmm, has anyone tried Ground Seal? I mean, it can protect the deck quite nice, while drawing once.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
Ground Seal shuts off our Loams bro, I've been having a lot of success with Chalice of the Void again vs decks like that. I never used to play with it but they made their way back into my SB and I love em. Also, I tried Knight of the Reliquary in the side, and MAN is it insane g2 when they board out a bunch of their removal
Graveyard hate was always present, and the hate of choice for everyone is just a bad Extirpate. I run 1 CotV in my sb with 7 ways to tutor for him, and against any deck who is suposed to run Surgical you should go to the Crucible plan. Also, Tranquil Thicket is gold except they have the second Surgical, so maybe I will try raising the count for 3 next time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sloshthedark
If you cut the 3 mana needed to Clique, you still can dredge Loam. But if you can't, your opponent can't tap out to play anything. If both players are doing nothing, you are already winning.
I don't know your meta, but what I see is lots of 3-color decks being the biggest parts of the Tier 1. I can imagine myself beating anything in the DtB section except for ANT, and some guys who follow this thread could back me up on this.
But you play some decks that lose to blue cards or artifact hate, who knows...
My tournament results are essentially meaningless, as it was only four rounds, with 10 people, and the players weren't very strong (I faced Bant Tempo, Reanimator, Belcher, and Infect). Anyway, with that in mind, I discovered the following things about Inkmoth/Wolfrun:
1) having a flyer was handy against the various fatties Reanimator has access too
2) the threat of -1/-1 counters helped buy times against small creatures like Noble Heirarch and Stoneforge Mystic (kept small by blowing up their white sources)
3) I was able to actually finish three games in a round!? seriously, only needing one or two turns to kill as opposed to 10+ turns (with Factories, Barbarian Ring, Cursed Scroll, or Mindslaver) was amazing. The biggest drawback to this deck is that it takes FOREVER to win sometimes, and this innovation does a lot to fix that.
I needed to run one more red dual (I had only Taiga, Volcanic Island and Mox Diamonds as red sources) to more reliably hit the red requirement for Kessig Wolf Run. I also figure that 4x Inkmoth/1x Wolf Run is probably the right ratio, as you don't ever want to see more than one Wolf Run.
I ran 3x Crucible of Worlds in the maindeck as well as 3x Tranquil Thicket, expecting maindeck graveyard hate (specifically Surgical Extraction or Extirpate)... which I didn't come across. But trying your best to always have a Tranquil Thicket in hand against decks that might have Extraction/Extirpate does a lot to help your chances. I couldn't find my Chalice of the Voids so I missed those severely...
At any rate, I need to test this a bunch, but won't really have any time to do so until January. Hopefully one or more of you will be able to do some testing?
@Fuzzy, those are totally relevant points. But if you don't like Inkmoth, what about just adding the 1x Kessig Wolf Run? Having an activated factory smash in for +(X-5)/+0 (X is the number of your mana sources) as opposed to just 2 or 3 a turn would also be a much faster clock. Thoughts?
I don't like using red sources in this deck or useless lands by itself. Call me crazy, but maybe Sigil of Distinction would be better in this spot with Inkmoth Nexus, and Chimeric Mass better if you can just swing a few times. In any case, I wouldn't play anything except 3 Factorys and 1 Slaver - And I hate Mindslaver, I would kill for a better wincon.Quote:
Originally Posted by antipode3141592
But some people here are against this line of thought (No worry to win, just play fast and with good cards), so that's only my personal opinion.
I've been thinking about this a lot, and this thread needs a serious necro...
3 cards that should probably all be considered:
Treasure hunt-- running 40+ lands, seems solid, with cards like manabond/ reliquary tower at your disposal, there are many ways to break this card.
Seismic assault-- with this on the table, a resolved treasure hunt can end the game.
Reliquary tower-- it allows us to multi-dredge loam for huge hands in the mid-late game, and can provide large hands via treasure hunt.
I also think that people need to up the barbarian ring/cephalid coliseum counts, I would want at least 1 of each in my build, and probably 2 of the coliseum.