If Leonin Arbiter doesn't work for me, I might cut some of the SB cards and move it to the SB and put Harriers back in main.
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If Leonin Arbiter doesn't work for me, I might cut some of the SB cards and move it to the SB and put Harriers back in main.
Congrats, I guess? People keep saying that Arbiter needs to be in the MD, but she has never shined for me. SB is a great spot for her, for not every deck will be crippled with her on the field. I am glad to see that Harrier was a positive part of your deck.
I've finally gotten around to some testing with Arbiter and I must say I have not been impressed. It has never been more than just a bear. It doesn't improve any of our problem matchups. Even harrier, while seemingly sub-par, has allowed me to win games I shouldn't have. The decks it hinders the most, blue-based control with few removal spells, we already have a good matchup against. There is also much better hate against combo than Arbiter. The one matchup I haven't been able to test is Vengevine survival. This is the one matchups where it seems it could be useful but for now, Arbiter is so underwhelming in the other matchups that I'm leave it out of the deck.
Well. i'm at the tournament. So far I'm neutral on Arbiter. It'll have done about as much good for me as Harrier. This is to say it has done nothing.
Burn was too fast and got Vortex active too fast for finks or jitte to help. Tendrils in turn manages to go off with only two lands drawn and one left in play the turn it went off. All without any fetches or tutors.
Two bad matchups in a row. Probably will play Belcher net. Considering a drop if I do.
MD arbiter seems meh. Might just be better as SB.I just feel like I'm losing my faith in the deck in general. It just hasn't done well at all for me.
I am not saying that Arbiters are bad or not yet. But I will say that if it turns out to be about the same as a Canonist, I would just stick with Canonists. They are a stronger lock.
Here's a report about the rest of the tourney. Round 3, some random pile. Was pretty easy. Round 4, storm. He fizzled game 1 and I had 2x arbiter and canonist along with 2 lands in my hand. Round 5 was dreadstill. Game 1 avenger+sword wins. Game 2 he just rolls over me. Game 3 I get him to 4, but he has removal fo my dudes and gets countertop active.
Overall, I'd rather just have Harriers MD. Was better in my opinion. Arbiter might work in the SB, but was a disappointment MD.
Here's the meta breakdown and T8 lists: http://poromagia.com/index.php?page=...e&articleid=11
I ended up going 2-3. 3-1-1 was needed to get into T8.
I don't consider Arbiter hate against storm combo. They don't play enough fetches nor search spells for it to be relevant...Well, maaaaybe Doomsday, but it is still a stretch. If you're looking to beat storm combo, Canonist is your man (well, artifact girl or whatever it is).Quote:
Originally Posted by supachai
What I can say from my testing is that Arbiter usually destroys Landstill on its own, and also Survival decks. And those are not good matchups for D&T.
@penguinizer: looking at your meta, it seems that Canonist >> Arbiter for you...
Ahh. Yes. Sorry if you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying that Arbiter was storm hate, but that if there's any reason to use Arbiter, it shouldn't be for storm combo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorgalis
As for landstill, which version have you been testing against? UBGw or UW/x? I know UBG usually runs 6-7 spot removal + deeds and it just kills us. Does Arbiter actually make this matchup beatable?
No prob Supachai.
I just smashed UW Landstill against a very good player (from the Mana Drain), but I play Gaddock Teeg + Qasali Pridemage, so that matchup is quite easy...:tongue: Arbiter is just overkill there, and it helps you slowing them down.
UBG Landstill has Innocent Blood and Ghastly Demise; if can play around those and/or make sure they don't have access to black mana, you're good to go.
Really, Arbiter is very good against fetchlands. I think that people thought that it would win games on its own...and sure it doesn't. But which creature does? (and Mangara doesn't count because it needs Karakas). It gives you a lot of time though, and meanwhile it beats or attracts removal. Of course, iit dies to most of the removal out there but...which creature in D&T doesn't? And we play Mother of Runes for a reason...
If you want to win games with Arbiter alone against fetchlands, you would need to land it turn one. But that would be a whole new deck, as you'd need moxen and Suppression Field.
I'm getting a lot of positive feedback about Flickerwisp, which I don't play in my GW build. I'll try to put it in somewhere...but I don't know what to cut.
Post your list so we can help out.
http://www.mtgthesource.com/forums/s...l=1#post494553Quote:
Originally Posted by LegacyDan
his list as of wednesday though it may have changed slightly sense then so don't quote me on that.
I have been running mono white version with canonist main.
For the sideboard I have found Chalice of the void works much better than Chant for me. for 1 against storm combo you don't need to leave a mana open and you can lay every threat for a faster clock. Though what impresses me even more is its versatility against decks like enchantress, and red burn. If you set it for 1 against those it slows them down considerably. Also against some versions of affinity if you are on the play chalice for 0 can wreck them or late game at 2 for plating, ravager, and the new guy that gives +1+1 counters. I wouldn't bring it in if you are on the draw however.
for reference my SB currently consists of
2 aura of silence
2 cataclysm
2 BFT
3 chalice of the void
2 kitchen finks
1 relic of protogenesis
1 tormods crypt
1 wheel of sun and moon
Im not quite sure which gy hate is best for me, so even though I don't have tutors I still keep the 3 different GY hate cards so Ichorid has a harder time with therapy, and it is harder to name the right one with needle.
Chalice of the Void does have the problem of shutting down a huge chunk of this deck itself if not timed properly (i.e. if not landed after an Aether Vial or two).
against storm and affinity you set it for 0. Against enchantress your 1 drops don't do much anyway except for vial. Against burn yes you lose BFT and Mom if you dont time it right, but shutting down 1/4 of their deck is Very worth it.
against Storm, and Enchantress you have better options in the deck that don't require you to dilute your deck's threat base all that much (i.e. Ethersworn Canonist is a prime example).Quote:
Originally Posted by HerrFunker
Against Affinity, there is always the option of running things such as Serenity if you are really concerned about Affinity, and if it becomes a really huge problem you can always just have Null Rod in the sideboard considering you really don't need Aether Vial in this match up, much less the equipment if you can shut down 90% of their deck.
As far as Burn... why do we need Chalice of the Void in that match up exactly? That should be an easy win for any version of Death and Taxes to begin with...
I dunno. I've had trouble against Burn. It just ends up being fast, and Sulfuric Vortex prevents me from stabilizing fast enough. I may just be an idiot.
As for jitte and whatnot. Smash to Smithereens seems to appear at the worst possible time.
okay, so um... have you tried the Green Splash?Quote:
Originally Posted by Penguinizer
Things the Green Splash adds to help the Burn Match Up:
Gaddock Teeg = Shuts down Fireblast and Flame Javelin among a few other more interesting options they could be running such as X-spells.
Qasali Pridemage = destroys Sulfuric Vortex... key in defeating them...
Tarmogoyf = a creature that is near impossible for a burn deck to get rid of with anything in their deck short of a fireblast cast extremely early.
All of these cards and more are available in a Green Splash that enable you to stop them from killing you as easily. Granted you will take damage faster than normal due to fetches and horizon canopy... but on the flip side that ALSO has the benefit of preventing you from being the victim of Hidetsugu's Second Rite which I am told some burn decks capitalize on...
For the record, I used to play burn, I know what it's weaknesses are and what they are not... and both Mono-White Death and Taxes, and GW Death and Taxes have the tools necessary to beat the deck without adding things like Chalice of the Void.
what's the consensus on enlightened tutor, is 3 or 4 the right number?i'm thinking about buying those foil ones and i need to know what's the best configuration...:)
0? IF you are gonna use them, 3 seems about right.
Hello, I'm a consistant lurker on this thread but rarely post. I've been toying with DnT and it's variants for a few years without much actual tournament experience but lots of games with friends. I'm going to GP Toronto and am deciding between ThopterTop or GW DnT, I'm leaning towards DnT simply because it's more fun to play.
I have a lot of respect for Finn's mono-White list but I can't help but be lured by the goodies that splashing Green gets me. I wonder what people with more experience have to say about the green splash and the current meta-game. I'm specifically excited about 4x Tarmogoyf, 4x QasaliPridemage. I would take out Serra Avenger and Flickerwisp to accommodate.
Other features I'd like to include is 1 Crucible of World to reccur Horizon Canopies, Wastelands and generally keep my mana flowing so as to better facilitate the tempo imblanace that Rishadan Port creates.
I'm also thinking of running 3x Cannonist MD and boarding into Leonin Arbiters against the Survival and other search heavy strategies.
Any thoughts, specifically about the green splash I guess...