[Deck] Elves Combo

Went 4-2 this weekend

Round1 : Junk 2-1
Round2: Elves Combo 0-2
Round3: Tes: 2-0
Round4: RUG Tempo 0-2
Round5: Omniscience 2-0
Round6: Elves Combo 2-1

A bit of luck, and a bit of bad luck, and in the last round tight plays vs the mirror got me 9th place out of 42 players.
RUG could have been a bit better, knowing game 2 I saw 11 lands out of 16 cards...

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

As for SB:
4 Choke
3 Energy Storm
1 Essence Warden
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Mortarpod
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Thorn of Amethyst

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My opinion:

Armageddon > Choke
Absolute Law > Energy Storm

Gaddock Teeg is too strong not to play side.
It stops Chalice, Terminus, Jace, Wrath, the new uncounterable day of judgement, petals of insight, empty the warrens/ tendrils of agony/ Ad Naseum.

I think 4 thorn of Amethyst effects are the least you need to compete with unfair decks. I prefer 3 thorn, 1 Thalia.

My SB (as of 10-09-2012):

3 Absolute Law
3 Choke (need to find the Armageddons)
1 Essence Warden (should I keep her?)
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Mortarpod
1 Qasali Pridemage
2 Thorn of Amethyst

Also, I played a game once, and the guy (first game) removed my Ezuri, leaving only Entity... Should I up the count of Ezuri? I have an extra one, and I didn't like it when I only had 1 win-con left.

Alright, I noticed something.. Quirion Ranger is a card I am not fond... at all... There must be something better? I love the Symbiote though, combat tricks with it are pretty amazing :laugh: (blocked a Wurmcoil Engine with an Elf :tongue:)

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

Alright, I noticed something.. Quirion Ranger is a card I am not fond... at all... There must be something better? I love the Symbiote though, combat tricks with it are pretty amazing :laugh: (blocked a Wurmcoil Engine with an Elf :tongue:)

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Quirion Ranger shouldn't be a 4-of I don't think.
Though with Dryad Arbor it does give you another chump block trick.
And sometimes gives you an edge when trying to combo out. I just followed Chris A. and Caleb D. and decided to play two. Siding one or two out is often the right thing to do.

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Originally Posted by TraxDaMax

Quirion Ranger shouldn't be a 4-of I don't think.
Though with Dryad Arbor it does give you another chump block trick.
And sometimes gives you an edge when trying to combo out. I just followed Chris A. and Caleb D. and decided to play two. Siding one or two out is often the right thing to do.

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Of all the times I could have blocked a creature with Dryad -_- can't believe I didn't see it lol.

But yeah, my list has two, and are usually the first things I side out.

EDIT: I've noticed that I have difficulty vs targeted removal, is there a way to help vs those decks? Or is it better to just play around them?

In my list I changed:

-1 Forest
+1 Temple Garden (no money for a Savannah :cry:)

My SB:
-3 Choke
+1 Thorn of Amethyst
+2 Armageddon

Still testing :wink:

EDIT: To let others know, I test quite a bit before I make the changes. I don't switch cards after losing "one bad game", this way I can be sure if the switch is good or not. :smile:

What decks are the Armageddons against?

This seems like a bad card to use in your sideboard.
If you have enough elves to cast this card and it resolves through countermagic and discard then shouldn't you already be winning no matter what card you cast at that point?

I try to Armageddon kinda soon, with a couple mana-dorks in play, against Control (mostly) that way (unless FoW) I keep them off Brainstorm and what-not. I did it against Miracle Control once, they had Elspeth down though before I landed my Armageddon.. It slowed them down a bit, but I still died, lol.

Hello everyone. I'm a long time magic player, recently got back into playing early this year after about 2 years off (Military). I've jumped into the new sets and have researched whats good over the last 6 months. I feel like I'm aware of the meta at the moment. The reason I put together an elf deck is that I remembered back in the Tempest days running with an Elf Deck and typically always doing well locally around the state. It was essentially a G/R Elf-Ball deck with Rolling Thunder, Coat of Arms and Overrun as the win conditions, and Vitalize as some trickiness. Remember that was back in…97? So yeah, no retro deck list, but I remember having on occasion ran with some silly card choices, such as Gang of Elk lol. Thing is it worked, and Elves were always my go deck regardless of the format in legacy for some reason.

Anyway, back to the real world and things that work, I put together the elf deck based off readings and other decks. I've gone undefeated here in Germany the last 2 weeks and overall only lost a few times in various Fright Night Magics and tournaments before that. Of course it isn't that different from other deck lists, but I have some cards not typically used.

4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Wirewood Symbiote
3 Birchlore Rangers
3 Quiron Ranger

4 Fyndhorn Elves
2 Llanowar Elves
4 Priest of Titania

4 Elvish Visionary
1 Regal Force
1 Soul of the Harvest

2 Mirror Entity
1 Craterhoof Behemoth

4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Summoners Pact
1 Crop Rotation

1 Dryad Arbor
2 Gaea's Cradle
3 Forest
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Pendlehaven
2 Savannah

Side:
1 Realm Razor
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Mortarpod
1 Gaddock Teeg
3 Absolute Law
3 Thorn of Amethyst
4 Faerie Macabre

For the most part, the 4-of choices are cards I believe to be a must. Priest of Titania is the questionable one, but its explosive power is too good. 2 Gaea's Cradle, if you can afford it, is outstanding, especially along with crop rotation. 13 land is enough for me to rarely have a mulligan.

I know what your thinking, theres probably 2 or 3 card choices that your like wtf?

Why Soul of the Harvest? Its a virtual Glimpse you can zenith for; but isn't that what Regal Force is for? In testing, I came across the occasional issue when I'd have 3 or 4 Elves in play which does not provide many cards from Regal, and no Glimpse of course. As long as you can play a creature or two, this card fixes that. It is quite simply, a backup plan, not to mention a 6/6 Trample. Of course having added it recently, I've only came across the situation 3x when I may have needed it whereas before I remember there being more situations, but that is the point. I think I will go through some more tests with it to truly see if its worth it, but if anyone else has tested or has a counter-logic on it, please let me know. Currently its helped and not hurt.

Why Craterhoof Behemoth? (And not Ezuri) Behemoth is a win condition you can zenith for in the event you don't have Mirror Entity ready. Yes if you have the mana why not just zenith that Regal? once again, a situational backup plan win condition. This card is by far my favorite to throw down. Does the deck need it? Clearly not, but I like these backup plans that don't hurt the deck. On Ezuri, even many of the current Elf lists don't include him; remember him with his ability will cost 8 Mana. At 8 Mana, Behemoth creates a bigger bang. If you had the infinite mana setup on the board with Ezuri, well it involves using Mirror so you wouldn't need Ezuri. So the same question applies, it's worked for me, hasn't effected the way the deck plays, has only helped, so any thoughts against?

Why 1 Summoners Pact? (And not Chord of the Calling?) Sometimes you can't afford to spend the mana for a Chord or tap the creatures needed. The pact is used in those dire situations when you may need that win, be it Regal, Behemoth, Soul (Glimpse). I've used this card as one of two things, get the combo going for the win, or simply get the win condition out. I'm not saying Chord is not effective or isn't a better choice, nor that the Pact is needed, I find it a little easier to work with when you have a few Elves or don't want to tap out. Once again its a nice back-up.

If I were to take something out it would be the Soul of the Harvest, then the Summoners Pact, simply because they are backups to an already solid plan. In my case these have acted as backups like they are intended to, and really help achieve that win when you may otherwise be delayed. I've ran with 2 Regal Forces and loved that too, it also addresses the issue of having but a few elves in play and casting Regal. I know with Mirror Entity and Wirewood you can just bounce it back anyway if you really need the cards, but you can't always those conditions into play. Good players know what to look out for, even when this type of deck is meant to overwhelm an opponents answers.

On the note of Armageddon, I've sided that in as well, but it was hard to tell how many you needed, 3 or 4? I wanted to do it as soon as possible, so basically turn 3 was average. Something I found that was fun that has a better chance at coming out than an Armageddon was Realm Razor. Yes its a bit dangerous, but if you need a stall and they can't answer it, you only need 1 in the deck vs. the 3 or 4 Armageddon, food for thought. I'm still in testing, and its working like I need it too.

We all know how 1 Grapeshot is always fun too, sometimes I run with that in place of another win condition. To be honest, I've always used it as a board clear vs. a win, never had enough triggers for the clean kill. Volcanic Awakening is also randomly fun, but not advised for tourney play.

Vitalize also is a great, older card, that I've used in the past and continue to try and implement today. Its like untapping everything and starting over. We've seen it in standard with Village Bell Ringer. Its never failed me in the deck either, the question is how many and is it worth it? To be honest with you, I'd almost gladly trade some of my choices for 2 or 3 of these.

Sorry for the really long post, I was bored and had a lot time. Figured I'd try to contribute about as much as I read.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

What decks are the Armageddons against?

This seems like a bad card to use in your sideboard.
If you have enough elves to cast this card and it resolves through countermagic and discard then shouldn't you already be winning no matter what card you cast at that point?

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Not if your opponent likes 2 cc enchantments that counter everything you play if they have sensei's dividing top.

It basicly against UW miracles, BUGstill and NicFit

I used to think Viridian Shaman was crap... Was I ever wrong? Wow... Played an affinity player, and I ate up all his cards with Shaman+Symbiote, not bad.

Also, other than Chord of Calling, there are no other ways to get Mirror Entity than drawing it?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

I used to think Viridian Shaman was crap... Was I ever wrong? Wow... Played an affinity player, and I ate up all his cards with Shaman+Symbiote, not bad.

Also, other than Chord of Calling, there are no other ways to get Mirror Entity than drawing it?

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Against most tier 1 decks Viridian doesn't do a whole lot. But, it does wipe affinity yep.
It also cleans up mortarpod, jitte, chalice, cursed totem and ensnarring bridge. These cards can hurt us.

And I'm afraid that's the deal with Mirror Entity. Myself, I just play 2 Mirror Entity. No chords, no Ezuri. Not that I don't like them, I'm just very keen about the list I play.

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Originally Posted by TraxDaMax

Not if your opponent likes 2 cc enchantments that counter everything you play if they have sensei's dividing top.

It basicly against UW miracles, BUGstill and NicFit

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Natural Order+Progenitus is better against all these matchups.
Both spells cost four mana but Natural Order puts a serious threat on the table. Mostly for the bugstill and Nic Fit matchups though. It becomes perish or good game and quite often Nic Fit and Bugstill won't have in their deck at all or just can't find Perish.

As for U/W miracles deck that one is a nightmare for elves and it is better to avoid this matchup rather than waste sideboard slots on a subpar answer. Terminus in response to Armageddon? The miracle deck has more lands in deck and hand to recover quicker. Good game for the elf player.


@Viridian Shaman: He wrecks stoneblade pretty hard killing Jitte and Batterskull. He does help in a lot of random corner cases too.

@Mirror Entitiy: He is mostly just intended to win on the spot while comboing off via Glimpse of Natures, kind of like a final blow. He works in other situations but this is what he is used for. If you want a finisher you can tutor try Ezuri.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

Natural Order+Progenitus is better against all these matchups.
Both spells cost four mana but Natural Order puts a serious threat on the table. Mostly for the bugstill and Nic Fit matchups though. It becomes perish or good game and quite often Nic Fit and Bugstill won't have in their deck at all or just can't find Perish.

As for U/W miracles deck that one is a nightmare for elves and it is better to avoid this matchup rather than waste sideboard slots on a subpar answer. Terminus in response to Armageddon? The miracle deck has more lands in deck and hand to recover quicker. Good game for the elf player.

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I think we need to see Armageddon as a speed bump, not as a game winner.
If we resolve a Priest of Titania, or setup a heritage druid base, Armageddon will likely buy us enough time to combo out with the mana our Dudes will give us.

Lets take a look at the latest U/W Miracles finalist.
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/dec...0&iddeck=66250

If I were him, those FoW's, 2spell pierces and 2 Counterspells were probably coming out for 3CB, extra 1Terminus, 2 Path to Exile and a jitte. Perhaps Jace is too clunky I'm not sure.

I may be wrong here, but that would seem my plan playing his deck against Elves.
Knowing this, you can freely Armageddon when you see that it is definately in your advantage. And I think this should be in either turn 2, or turn 3.
If he leaves his Forces in, and you Armageddon, he'll have to 2for1 himself anyway.
And this means he didn't board in something relevant, or his Jace's are out.

Fact is, control decks need mana to function. Blow their mana up in the beginning and they might not recover. It's kind of like the Stifle/wasteland trick that Tempo decks get random wins off of now and then, only your opponent can't afford to play around land destruction or they will never succesfully interupt your army of pointy eared friends in time.

Well this is atleast my opinion why Armageddon deserves a spot in the board.

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Originally Posted by TraxDaMax

I think we need to see Armageddon as a speed bump, not as a game winner.

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This is exactly why I am suggesting Natural Order over Armageddon, at the same mana cost one is a speed bump and the other wins games.

I'm with joemauer here. UW Miracle can easily operate with 2 lands, too because of Sensei's Divining Top,Brainstorm and Terminus Miracle cost (W), also Counterbalance costs 2 which isn't THAT hard after an Armageddon.
the good old Natural Order does the same in my opinion, and it has already been played long ago, to great success. It also wins nearly every non-combo matchup on its own if they don't have perish (what joemauer said).
But at the moment I think it's better to NOT play Natural Order or Armageddon.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

This is exactly why I am suggesting Natural Order over Armageddon, at the same mana cost one is a speed bump and the other wins games.

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Mirror Entity also wins games, and we already play it.

The 2 things I dislike about Natural Order in Elves are:
- Terminus/Perish still solves it.
- Playing 2 NO with 1 Progenitus sideboard feels random (because drawing Progenitus gives you dead draws, and drawing a NO turn 6 feels very underwhelming. Progenitus just isn't the scary beast it once was). Playing 4NO, 2 Progenitus clogs up the sideboard.

FYI, I have tested NO recently. And I actually played Show and Order at GP Ghent, so I really like the card. I'm just not sold on it in this deck yet.

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Originally Posted by Alexeezay

I'm with joemauer here. UW Miracle can easily operate with 2 lands, too because of Sensei's Divining Top,Brainstorm and Terminus Miracle cost (W), also Counterbalance costs 2 which isn't THAT hard after an Armageddon.

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When we cast Armageddon, it is when we are ahead in mana. That means we already assembled some kind of mana resource in creatureform and perhaps kept a land in hand while casting.
We probably are also on the play meaning they need 2 extra turns to attain even this 2 mana. I have won games out of nowhere in 1 turn with Elves with 3 creatures in play, a forest and crop rotation in hand.


But, again this is just my experience with the deck.
I do agree Geddon would be one of the first things to take out of my board, but not as long as Miracles is a deck.

Dear guys,

I am new at this deck and only played it once at a tournamet. I'm playing legacy for many years but normally Goblins.

I have a few questions:

What are the keycards (not main, I want to speak about the sb) against:

- Maverick
- Goblins
- UW
- RUG Delver

At the moment, I'm playing cards like Jitte, Grip, Faerie Macabre and stuff in the sideboard but don't know the right boardings.
Against Maverick we have to keep cards like Linvala or Canonist. Against Goblin there is the Jitte and Artefactremoval against nasty Chalice.
What's with UW? Gaddock Teeg is an option. I don't know if I should run cards like Armageddon.

The cards I'm testing this days are Goblin Bombardement and Absolute Law. Goblin Bombardement seems to be strange, but maybe it is an option against Dredge and Aggro (so is a saccoutlet against equipment). The rule has to be clear. In a meta full of red, it should be a good choice.

Does anyone test Boil? With a R splash it could be > Armageddon against UW. It is an Instant and the UW-man often searches for Tundra because he doesn't expect Wastes in this matchup.

But often I also don't know what to take out. Priests and Ranger seems often to be legit.

Does anyone of you play with different winoptions. I like to play Emrakul and Ezuri and also tested Fierce Empath to search for Emrakul and Regal Force. What do you mean?

I'm pretty much playing the GW stock list:

3 Birchlore Rangers
4 Elvish Visionary
2 Fyndhorn Elves
4 Heritage Druid
4 Llanowar Elves
2 Mirror Entity
4 Nettle Sentinel
3 Priest of Titania
1 Quirion Ranger
1 Regal Force
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Viridian Shaman
4 Wirewood Symbiote

1 Crop Rotation
4 Glimpse of Nature
4 Green Sun's Zenith

1 Dryad Arbor
3 Forest
2 Gaea's Cradle
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Pendelhaven
2 Savannah
4 Windswept Heath
3 Wooded Foothills

//Sideboard
3 Faerie Macabre
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Qasali Pridemage
3 Energy Storm
2 Meekstone
1 Mortarpod
4 Thorn of Amethyst

I pretty much don't care about Linvala, Keeper of Silence. Elves is a turn three deck and Linvala, Keeper of Silence is mostly just a two-off. So I'm all about racing them. I'm not sure wether to play Absolute Law or Energy Storm. Absolute Law is better against Goblins, while Energy Storm is better against Canadian. Against Umezawa's Jitte I bring in the extra Qasali Pridemage from the board, but normally you can just combo out, before they get Jitte online. I really like Mirror Entity as a win option and the loops to go infinite with it. I don't see myself swapping her out for Ezuri or Emrakul.

With the recent vanishing of Reanimtor from the german metagame, I'm thinking about removing the Faerie Macabre from the sideboard in order to bring some hate against UW Miracle, but I just can't seem to find cards, which I like in that spot. I don't like the thinking behind bringing in Armageddon, due to the nature of UW Miracle to be very efficient with one to two lands in play. The matchup is horrible and I don't see myself winning it, by boarding in two or three cards. It could also be possible, that it is right to play Humility and a fifth sphere in Thalia, Guardian of Thraben in those slots. I really like the idea behind Humility against Show and Tell, but I don't like it against Omniscience, because they also have the storm kill. I would just bring in spheres in that matchup in hope to catch them offguard, by having the wrong combination of cards. After all Elves can kill quite consistent on turn three.

Edit: If you want me to be more specific about certain things or want to ask some questions about my point of view, you can always private message me on the german forums Pee-Dee-2. It's easier to display some stuff in our native language.

I've read a couple posts on Mirror Entity going infinite.. May I ask how it works?

Currently, these infinite mana situations came to my mind:

#1: Mirror Entity + Nettle Sentinel + Heritage Druid + Wirewood Symbiote

#2: Mirror Entity + Priest of Titania + Wirewood Symbiote

#3: Mirror Entity + Heritage Druid + Wirewood Symbiote + Wirewood Symbiote

I know I might miss some but I don't know them all off the bat.
Since I'm too lazy to explain them in detail:
Basically, in every situation you activate Entity for 1 to make the Symbiotes creature type "Elf" so they can tap for mana or Priest produces more mana...then you can also bounce the Symbiotes themselves since they are Elves. Then you can replay Symbiote.
This results in at least 1 extra mana left each time you do that. Meanwhile you untapped a creature with the symbiote effect and you are able to continue to tap for mana and use the Symbiote bounce again while ending up with an extra mana in the end
-> infinite
-> kill with big guys

I always forget that Mirror Entity turns my elves into every creature...

I changed up my SB a bit:

-1 Essence Warden
-2 Armageddon (I know, I know controversial...)

+1 Thorn of Amethyst
+2 Meekstone

I cut the Armageddons because they have been somewhat lackluster in my match ups, so I added a Thorn (for unfair decks) and Meekstones for Flying Spahetti Monster et Al.

I have found Thorn of Amethyst to be pretty good against Show and Tell decks. Being able to slow that deck just one or two turns is crucial for us.

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Originally Posted by joemauer

I have found Thorn of Amethyst to be pretty good against Show and Tell decks. Being able to slow that deck just one or two turns is crucial for us.

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Agreed. I always board 1xThalia and 2xToA in against them, together with 1xTeeg (Petals of Insight), 1xQasali (Omniscience/sneak attack) and double Humility. I have yet to loose to Sneak and Show/ Omnitell still. All this hate is really effective.

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Originally Posted by RtR Spoiler

Deathrite Shaman {B/G}
Creature - Elf Shaman
{T}: Exile target land from a graveyard. Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
{B}, {T}: Exile target instant or sorcery card from a graveyard. Each opponent loses 2 life.
{G}, {T}: Exile target creature card from a graveyard. You gain 2 life.
1/2

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Say hello to your new favourite 4-of maindeck utility.

It's an Elf. It's 1cc. It synergizes with our untappers. It's a semi-reliable manasource with Fetchlands (yours or the opponents). It shrinks KotR. It eats Lavamancer food. It buys time versus aggressive decks. It survives Lackey -> Gempalm Incinerator. It's a maindeckable answer to Reanimator. Hell, if you're willing to make the splash (not that you have to) it's even decent reach as well as an answer to Snapcaster Shenanigans.

I mean seriously? This + Bayou + Quirion Ranger equals 4 unblockable damage per turn provided your opponent have stocked their graveyard. The best Elf card printed since Lorwyn. Crazy.

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Originally Posted by Infinitium

Say hello to your new favourite 4-of maindeck utility.

It's an Elf. It's 1cc. It synergizes with our untappers. It's a semi-reliable manasource with Fetchlands (yours or the opponents). It shrinks KotR. It eats Lavamancer food. It buys time versus aggressive decks. It survives Lackey -> Gempalm Incinerator. It's a maindeckable answer to Reanimator. Hell, if you're willing to make the splash (not that you have to) it's even decent reach as well as an answer to Snapcaster Shenanigans.

I mean seriously? This + Bayou + Quirion Ranger equals 4 unblockable damage per turn provided your opponent have stocked their graveyard. The best Elf card printed since Lorwyn. Crazy.

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I must agree to an extent. 4of main deck I am not so sure about, whereas maindeck in general I see. Does it replace the need for Ooze? Asking because some decks run the 1 in main as opposed to SB.
It isn't a for sure way to hit for mana, and hurts our turn 1 mana play as a 4of. I can see 2 in main honestly, and maybe the other in the SB. Of course its dependant on the meta, and while I think its great I really don't think 4 of will support the speed needed for the deck. Its a good 'backup' or something do when you have nothing else to do...but when you have nothing to do with this deck isn't it failing?

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Originally Posted by yaWgnorW

I must agree to an extent. 4of main deck I am not so sure about, whereas maindeck in general I see. Does it replace the need for Ooze? Asking because some decks run the 1 in main as opposed to SB.
It isn't a for sure way to hit for mana, and hurts our turn 1 mana play as a 4of. I can see 2 in main honestly, and maybe the other in the SB. Of course its dependant on the meta, and while I think its great I really don't think 4 of will support the speed needed for the deck. Its a good 'backup' or something do when you have nothing else to do...but when you have nothing to do with this deck isn't it failing?

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I think 4 of the new guy is too much aswell.

Also, Ooze is really too good to throw out.
The games I have won off the single one in my main is ridiculous. I have been considering throwing a second in my sideboard because it is so good. Especially after a boardwipe it's a 2cc "Hi, I win the game"-dude.

For me, the only real advantage Deathrite Shaman has is it's an elf, and usually can produce mana. So I would probably exchange perhaps one for a Llanowar Elves or Fyndhorn Elves. Maybe 2 like you state but I'm kind of scared of messing up the manabase this way.
This will definately improve the Dredge and Reanimator match-up though.

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Originally Posted by TraxDaMax

I think 4 of the new guy is too much aswell.

Also, Ooze is really too good to throw out.
The games I have won off the single one in my main is ridiculous. I have been considering throwing a second in my sideboard because it is so good. Especially after a boardwipe it's a 2cc "Hi, I win the game"-dude.

For me, the only real advantage Deathrite Shaman has is it's an elf, and usually can produce mana. So I would probably exchange perhaps one for a Llanowar Elves or Fyndhorn Elves. Maybe 2 like you state but I'm kind of scared of messing up the manabase this way.
This will definately improve the Dredge and Reanimator match-up though.

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Agreed. It may put question to the may manabase, but even with the loss of one or two Llanowar/Fyndhorn it hurts our first turn mana ramp. Deathrite will most likely not provide mana that second turn. The advantage Ooze has is that with a single G, you can remove any card, where as with the Deathrite you need G for creatures or B for instants. Your right in saying its advantage is that it is an elf and could produce mana, but we can't count on that mana in the first few turns. It syncs with Priest of Titania and our untappers, but so does a Llanowar that the Deathrite would replace. Its basically something thats fighting with Ooze for the same effect.

I haven't ran Ooze maindeck, but you make me want to honestly. It makes sense.

I'd run Ooze MD if I could afford it.. :( No more job, can't buy any cards... :(

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Originally Posted by Mr. Froggy

(...) other than Chord of Calling, there are no other ways to get Mirror Entity than drawing it?

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If one really wants/needs to find Mirror Entity faster, one could test using a couple of Eladamri's Call or Worldly Tutor as alternative/extra tutors.

I actually thought of E. Call, maybe I should try and test it.

Out of all possible win-cons for Elves!, which has worked for you best and why? And which is your favourite win and why? I want to experiment with the most win-cons possible, like Emmy, Ezuri, M. Entity, Grapeshot, etc.

Vengevine is my favorite win condition for the sole fact that he is good on his own when you aren't comboing out via Glimpse of Nature.

I also get a sick kick out of people siding in Surgical Extraction while I am siding out Vengevines.

FYI, Deathrite Shaman's first ability is NOT a mana ability and can be responded to, needled, and stifled. There is no way im playing a situational mana elf in this deck. Its so much slower than ooze vs dredge, never will deal damage (seriously), and requires you or your opponent to have lands in GY to make mana.

That said, this beats glacial chasm... lol

How many people are going to side in Needle thinking, "Yeah, fuck those Deathrite Shamans"? Answer: nobody.

Anyways, a black splash seems good here. You need Cabal Therapy for Terminus if you actually want a chance against UW Miracles. And even then, it could be floating on the top of their library. Maybe something with more certainty is required, like Cranial Extraction; I dunno. That's obviously slow.

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Originally Posted by igri_is_a_bk

You need Cabal Therapy for Terminus if you actually want a chance against UW Miracles.

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Who the hell even plays till turn six with Elves vs. UW Miracles? Seriously, threads like this would run way smoother, if people would actually think, before they post.

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Originally Posted by flrn

Who the hell even plays till turn six with Elves vs. UW Miracles? Seriously, threads like this would run way smoother, if people would actually think, before they post.

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I'm pretty sure you can end of turn Brainstorm/activate Sensei's Divining Top to Miracle set up Terminus (which is a 3-4 of in that deck) by turn 2-3.

People should really think before they post.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by (nameless one)

I'm pretty sure you can end of turn Brainstorm/activate Sensei's Divining Top to Miracle set up Terminus (which is a 3-4 of in that deck) by turn 2-3.

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Which Cabal Therapy solves how?

I believe he was saying that Cabal Therapy vs Terminus is useless, since they don't want that card in their hand anyway.

Right. Brainstorm means you whiff, or if they've been floating it on top of their library, then you whiff. That's why I said Cranial Extraction, or the like, could be helpful because it'll nail all the copies regardless of where they're hidden.

And who plays this deck til turn six vs. UW Miracles? Me. Every game. And I'm guessing most people. Why is turn six relevant anyways? Terminus without Miracle is not the UW player's plan.