[Deck] Nic Fit (GBx Explorer Zenith Control)

That sounds ... awkward.

I would snap-keep your Hand #5. You have early removal vs Delver/Lackey/etc via Blood. You can lead Forest -> Top, upkeep spin, then either play more land that you find with Top, or draw a card you want then then play Verdant, crack for Swamp -> spin. There's a small chance you'll get dicked over and not find a 3rd land after Top + shuffle/Top, but I think the hand is strong enough that it's worth gambling that you'll find the 3rd land.

Edit for quote, since it kicked me to the first post of this page.

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Originally Posted by Megadeus

Hand 5: Forest, Verdant Catacombs, 2x Pernicious Deed, E Witness, SDT, Innocent blood

Again, I probably keep it, but it doesnt mean that it is right. If I never draw land then I lose without a fight. Having 2 deeds and having SDT makes me want to keep it though.

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I was thinking the same. Hand #5 is extremely solid, it does what Nic Fit does best: keeps the board clean while you ramp. If you can't find a land in your next 6 cards, you just did something incredibly mean in the past and you're now paying for it.

As for how to play BUG, it's difficult to explain over a forum. I can tell you that compared to BG, I rarely trigger an Explorer before turn 3 while I used to get Explorer triggers on turn 2-3 nearly all the time with BG.

How do y'all playtest?

Also, I feel like compared to other versions, BUG wants to get to 7 to 10 mana. Not because our bombs cost that much, but because if our bombs are countered or removed, we rely on the best damn recursive engines in Legacy (or at least the most versatile) to control the board state and to recur our bombs to win. Like someone else said, BUG fit plays like a grindy control deck (or so it seems from goldfishing on my part).

EDIT: I need some sleep: started thinking Wild Cantor would be awesome as no-sac ramp in my list lol. Any suggestions for a useful 1-drop Zenithable nosac ramp?

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

...I need some sleep: started thinking Wild Cantor would be awesome as no-sac ramp in my list lol. Any suggestions for a useful 1-drop Zenithable nosac ramp?

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Deathrite Shaman? It seems good colour wise and if it sticks it helps a lot in the mid-late game.

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

How do y'all playtest?

Also, I feel like compared to other versions, BUG wants to get to 7 to 10 mana. Not because our bombs cost that much, but because if our bombs are countered or removed, we rely on the best damn recursive engines in Legacy (or at least the most versatile) to control the board state and to recur our bombs to win. Like someone else said, BUG fit plays like a grindy control deck (or so it seems from goldfishing on my part).

EDIT: I need some sleep: started thinking Wild Cantor would be awesome as no-sac ramp in my list lol. Any suggestions for a useful 1-drop Zenithable nosac ramp?

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Yeah, you want one of Birds, Hierarch, or Deathrite. Any of them are playable options, IMO. Deathrite might not always make mana, but unlike the other two options he does more than just make mana. He's also a g/b Grim Lavamancer. It really depends on how reliable you want your mana generator to be. If you for sure want the mana, then go for Birds (probably over Hierarch).

I'll be honest, I don't actually playtest anymore. When I was really all-in on brewing the deck, I grinded it on Cockatrice with my locals against pretty much any deck they could/would throw at it. Now, though, I've become really disillusioned with Cockatrice because its randomization matrices just blow ass, so it isn't even "real" / worthwhile test data. I also have the benefit of weekly local events at the college here (although they rotate Legacy every other week), and I'm usually traveling to some legacy event on Saturday or other. So basically my testing is just playing events at this point. Probably not the best way to go about it in the abstract, but I like having a life >_> Also, Magic Theory goes a LONG way with this deck in particular, for some reason. I have a good grounding of the theory behind Nic Fit, so I can kind of skate by on that alone. Sometimes I have bad ideas that could have been revealed through testing...but meh.

I picked up a third Academy Rector at our local Modern Tournament last night. I am running 2 Diabolic Intent and 3 Green Sun. I tried to find Eladmri's Call but no one had any. I also forgot to get a second Baneslayer. I also got the Starved Rasulka. Just need to find Innocent Bloods before saturday. I think I'm going all in on Rector and Enchantments.

@Arianrhod: I dont get to play test at all anymore. Im taking my rector nic fit to SCG Cincinnati and I haven't played it in like 3 weeks except verses myself lol. So I am going off advice from people here and trying to watch the very few Nic-Fit videos that people post.

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Originally Posted by CRich3

I picked up a third Academy Rector at our local Modern Tournament last night. I am running 2 Diabolic Intent and 3 Green Sun. I tried to find Eladmri's Call but no one had any. I also forgot to get a second Baneslayer. I also got the Starved Rasulka. Just need to find Innocent Bloods before saturday. I think I'm going all in on Rector and Enchantments.

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I had to get my Call of ebay and even there they aren't exactly plentiful. It's not exactly a required card though. If you can't get one I wouldn't sweat it.

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Originally Posted by CRich3

I dont get to play test at all anymore. Im taking my rector nic fit to SCG Cincinnati and I haven't played it in like 3 weeks except verses myself lol. So I am going off advice from people here and trying to watch the very few Nic-Fit videos that people post.

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What is this 'playtest' you speak of? :) Legacy in my area is barely a thing. I travel over an hour once a week to get to the 'local' shop that has legacy scheduled every Thursday. It hasn't fired in over a month. My Magic playing friends aren't interested in rigorous testing, so my play consists of the rare events that fire. Realistically, I could play more Vintage than I can Legacy. I suppose I should play Standard since you can play that anywhere, but Legacy >>>>> Standard IMHO.

I read reports on here and am green with envy at the 'small' 32-player turn outs. No clue how it is that Legacy in the Chicago area is as weak as it is. Hotsauce has decent turnout, but it's pretty far and Mondays stink. Oh well, I still love it so I keep trying :) And on that note I am heading out to the weekly event. Knock on wood for 8+ people.

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Originally Posted by CRich3

I picked up a third Academy Rector at our local Modern Tournament last night. I am running 2 Diabolic Intent and 3 Green Sun. I tried to find Eladmri's Call but no one had any. I also forgot to get a second Baneslayer. I also got the Starved Rasulka. Just need to find Innocent Bloods before saturday. I think I'm going all in on Rector and Enchantments.

@Arianrhod: I dont get to play test at all anymore. Im taking my rector nic fit to SCG Cincinnati and I haven't played it in like 3 weeks except verses myself lol. So I am going off advice from people here and trying to watch the very few Nic-Fit videos that people post.

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You in the Cincy area? I'm from south of the river and my mtg group is going through its casual phase right now and am looking for some Legacy guys/gals.

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Originally Posted by slikwilly

And on that note I am heading out to the weekly event. Knock on wood for 8+ people.

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Yay! Decent turnout today (12). Went 3-1 vs Maverick, RUG, UR Ninja, and OmniTell. The loss was to the Ninja deck and was just some less than good luck. I wasn't able to get any ramp going in G1 and he countered my zeniths. G2 I mulled to 5, kept a hand w/ Bayou + Tribe Elder. He wasted the Bayou, my next card was a plains, then he Thought Scoured a Carpet & Deed into my yard. We played a couple more games after since he thrashed me so quickly. I took those w/o issue.

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Originally Posted by slikwilly

Yay! Decent turnout today (12). Went 3-1 vs Maverick, RUG, UR Ninja, and OmniTell. The loss was to the Ninja deck and was just some less than good luck. I wasn't able to get any ramp going in G1 and he countered my zeniths. G2 I mulled to 5, kept a hand w/ Bayou + Tribe Elder. He wasted the Bayou, my next card was a plains, then he Thought Scoured a Carpet & Deed into my yard. We played a couple more games after since he thrashed me so quickly. I took those w/o issue.

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Good job! Give us some details about OmniTell, if you can recall them -- a lot of people in this thread have been struggling with beating that matchup, so if you can relate your experiences therein, it might help them improve, or figure out a line that actually works, at least.

Unrelatedly, how scary is that Ninja deck, actually? I keep hearing rumors about it like it's basically mono-U but doesn't run FoW, etc, but that it's actually good somehow. Every time I see a list it just looks like a heaping pile, but I guess it must be better than it looks?

No I'm from columbus, I'm going to Cincy for SCG and I have family there. May come down more often though.

Ok now this is the time i will post what my Nic-Fit build was, i already acquired my Abrupt Decay. Below is my current list that will be playing this coming sunday.

Punishing Nic-Fit

Creatures : 13

4 Veteran Explorer
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Eternal Witness
1 Thragtusk
1 Broodmate Dragon
1 Olivia Voldaren

Spells : Instant/Sorcery/Planeswalker/Artifact : 25

4 Punishing Fire
4 Green Sun Zenith
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Pernicious Deed
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Liliana of the Veil

Lands:

4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Forest
2 Bayou
2 Wooded Foothills
2 Swamp
1 Taiga
1 Badlands
1 Mountain
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Phyrexian Tower

Sideboard :

3 Carpet of Flowers
3 Hymn to Tourach
2 Duress
2 Slaughter Games
2 Extirpate
2 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Good job! Give us some details about OmniTell, if you can recall them -- a lot of people in this thread have been struggling with beating that matchup, so if you can relate your experiences therein, it might help them improve, or figure out a line that actually works, at least.

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Get lucky breaks? :) We actually played 4 games since we finished before the other game that going on to determine prize payout. I went 4-0 against him. Game 1 he was on the play (I only played one game on the play all night) and let Island, Go. I go Swamp -> Therapy. He Brainstormed in response so called Emrakul to try to shuffle away whatever he hid. It whiffed revealing something like double Ponder, Ancient Tomb and some land. Turn 2 he Ponders, I Explorer & flashback Therapy to take away his other Ponder. Then he proceeds to draw tons of land while I am durdling trying to find a beatstick (w/ an Arena and SDT in play and still I draw nothing). Eventually he's able to S&T in a Grisselbrand. I played a Deed w/ seven land on board and a P.Tower in hand. So I play my Tower, and crack the Deed. He draws 7, going to five in the process. We durdle a turn or two more, and he cracks a fetch to shuffle away some cards. I played an Elspeth and make a dude. He casts S&T again, this time for Omni, I drop a Rector. Omni into Emrakul. I'm at 16 w/ a crap ton of land, Rector, a soldier, and Elspeth. He's got a spaghetti monster and can't attack me on the extra turn because he can't do lethal and can't annihilate enough permanents that I'd have to destroy the soldier + Elspeth. So he passes the turn, I Tower the Rector for Faiths Fetters onto Emrakul, jump the soldier and hit for lethal.

Game 2 he goes Island, Preordain. I figured he had a S&T target, but not S&T, so I go Swamp, Therapy and name Omni, hitting two :) T2 not much happens, T3 he drops a Lotus Petal, cracks it for a red, and Wishes for S&T. I Vindicate his Underground Sea leaving him with just an Island and hope he doesn't draw a sol land to cast S&T with. He doesn't so on T4 I Memoricide S&T. Considering he'd already wished for the one in his board that was game.

G3 not much happened T1 that I recall. T2 he hit me w/ a Thoughtseize seeing Explorer and Nethervoid. He took the Void. I top decked a Witness shortly thereafter, getting Void back, casting it successfully the next turn. Then it's slowly ramping to overcome the void while he can't do a whole lot. At one point he tapped his City of Traitors and played another land just to be able to pay for a Preordain :) Eventaully he got enough mana together to S&T putting in Omni, but even w/ Omni you still have to pay for Void. Basically taxed him out of the game.

Game 4 I don't recall. More successful Therapies.

There was a lot of fortunate top docks in these games. The things I really took away are that Nether Void rocks and wiffing on Therapy does not. I just got the Void yesterday too. When I got to the shop I saw a Storm deck and a Belcher deck. I'd been eyeing the Italian Void in the case for weeks, so I figured that 1) the price was good, 2) it was in good shape, 3) the event was actually going to fire, 4) it would be useful in the event, and 5) I am planning on some Legacy side events at the upcoming GP Chicago and I want it for that.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Unrelatedly, how scary is that Ninja deck, actually? I keep hearing rumors about it like it's basically mono-U but doesn't run FoW, etc, but that it's actually good somehow. Every time I see a list it just looks like a heaping pile, but I guess it must be better than it looks?

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The Ninja deck is normally mono-U I think. This guy added R for Fire/Ice, Chain Lightning, and Lightning Bolt. It seemed a lot like UR Delver w/ Ninjas. I never saw any but he said he was also running Jaces Phantasm. G1 I lost because T2 I swung w/ my Explorer leaving me w/o a blocker. He EOT a Snapcaster which I'm like, "Uhh... WTF is going on here?" since he had nothing in the bin. What's going on is he Ninja'd in his Ninja and got himself a free card. And then played a Delver. I can't recall how my Explorer died, but I was shortly left w/o any blockers so he's getting all kinds of cards off that Ninja while he's countering all my GSZ. I had kept a marginal 6 card hand that was probably fine if he doesn't have the Ninja and get mad card advantage off it.

Game 2 I mulled to 5, keeping a hand w/ Elder + Bayou. I lead Bayou, he wastes it so I can't play the elder and I never did draw a forest after he blind flips delvers on both his subsequent turns.

We played a couple more which were uneventful wins for me. The Ninja costs 4, so it's costly to Deed away, but besides that it seems like any other Delver-centric deck. Stick a Deed to wreck their stuff, play and/or recur bombs until dead. Having a blocker up so they can't Ninjitsu is also good.

So yeah, Ninja + Snapcaster? Pretty sweet. Flash Snappy at EOT, then Ninja during combat. You get your Snapcaster back for later use AND a card. Probably only works G1 though.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Good job! Give us some details about OmniTell, if you can recall them -- a lot of people in this thread have been struggling with beating that matchup, so if you can relate your experiences therein, it might help them improve, or figure out a line that actually works, at least.

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I have managed to beat Omnitell with BUG fit, but it's no easy task. I was able to duress a show and tell, and then after he got another one with burning wish, I extirpated the one in the graveyard. Unlike sneak/show, without SNT they have to get to 10 mana to hardcast omni--which he actually did in one game since I had no clock at all.

So.. discard, extirpate/extraction effects, a clock, and luck are all required to beat that deck.

@Kabards

I'd love a report after Sunday. I've been toying around with a Punishing Fit list for a few weeks but I haven't gotten around to do any testing.

My list is a little different from yours - I cut Olivia and Deranged Hermit for Thragtusk2 and Thrun.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Unrelatedly, how scary is that Ninja deck, actually? I keep hearing rumors about it like it's basically mono-U but doesn't run FoW, etc, but that it's actually good somehow. Every time I see a list it just looks like a heaping pile, but I guess it must be better than it looks?

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Could you link a list for interested parties?

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Originally Posted by guelahpapyrus

Could you link a list for interested parties?

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From SCG Minneapolis.

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Originally Posted by guelahpapyrus

@Kabards

I'd love a report after Sunday. I've been toying around with a Punishing Fit list for a few weeks but I haven't gotten around to do any testing.

My list is a little different from yours - I cut Olivia and Deranged Hermit for Thragtusk2 and Thrun.

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Yeah tomorrow i will put a short tournament report after i got home, i'm also considering to put out Olivia if it doesn't work tomorrow :laugh:

Why do you not run a Primeval Titan. I always thought it was a great addition to the deck. This way you have Broodmate for the immediate impact and Titan for getting 2 Groves or Stronghold/Grove the long, grindy game.
How comfortable are you without any Disenchant effects to tutor for? But maybe Abrupt Decay is enough, that would be an easy free slot.

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Originally Posted by Tao

Why do you not run a Primeval Titan. I always thought it was a great addition to the deck. This way you have Broodmate for the immediate impact and Titan for getting 2 Groves or Stronghold/Grove the long, grindy game.
How comfortable are you without any Disenchant effects to tutor for? But maybe Abrupt Decay is enough, that would be an easy free slot.

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Yeah Primeval Titan is also a good choice but if you want to go for Zenith to finish the game maybe you should go for Broodmate Dragon rather than Primeval Titan

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Originally Posted by Tao

Why do you not run a Primeval Titan. I always thought it was a great addition to the deck. This way you have Broodmate for the immediate impact and Titan for getting 2 Groves or Stronghold/Grove the long, grindy game.
How comfortable are you without any Disenchant effects to tutor for? But maybe Abrupt Decay is enough, that would be an easy free slot.

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Yeah Primeval Titan is also a good choice but if you want to go for Zenith to finish the game maybe you should go for Broodmate Dragon rather than Primeval Titan

Got 2nd at Mythic for just shy of $250 credit today, with Scapewish. I'll have a report up probably Monday morning. I went completely undefeated until the finals, then my luck ran out and I died in two very, very narrow games to BUG control. They were easily winnable if he didn't draw quite as good, or if I drew a little bit better...just the way the cookie crumbled. Certainly not displeased, though.

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Got 2nd at Mythic for just shy of $250 credit today, with Scapewish. I'll have a report up probably Monday morning. I went completely undefeated until the finals, then my luck ran out and I died in two very, very narrow games to BUG control. They were easily winnable if he didn't draw quite as good, or if I drew a little bit better...just the way the cookie crumbled. Certainly not displeased, though.

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If Burning Wishes weren't quite so hard to find I feel like I could really get behind Scapewish haha. All my aggro-loam lands are already pretty relevant to the list. Doesn't seem to be much of an investment to transition over and honestly, so far, all I see are super positive results haha.

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Originally Posted by kabards

Yeah Primeval Titan is also a good choice but if you want to go for Zenith to finish the game maybe you should go for Broodmate Dragon rather than Primeval Titan

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I usually green sun into titan or hardcast him to find any land + boseiju to roll out scapeshift the next turn to make u/w control players have it in their faces! :mad:

I have liked Prime Time a lot. The flying on the dragon is nice, but the trample and fetching 2 treetop villages is pretty sweet... A lot better vs miracles as they cant terminus away the lands easily.

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Originally Posted by kabards

Yeah Primeval Titan is also a good choice but if you want to go for Zenith to finish the game maybe you should go for Broodmate Dragon rather than Primeval Titan

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Broodmate is sometimes not going very far in the control mirror. They Swords + Jace the Token, or Swords + Snapcaster the Swords or Deed everything. Primeval getting 2 Groves is almost impossible to outcontrol in G1, so now they have to race you and not vice versa.

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Originally Posted by Tao

Broodmate is sometimes not going very far in the control mirror. They Swords + Jace the Token, or Swords + Snapcaster the Swords or Deed everything. Primeval getting 2 Groves is almost impossible to outcontrol in G1, so now they have to race you and not vice versa.

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But Broodmate has the evasion that Primeval Titan don't get. Maybe it's case to case basis

Ok this is my Tournament Report for tonight after playing 5 rounds of Swiss battling out for a Box of Return to Ravnica. I'm using my Punishing Nic-Fit 30+ players came to test their newly built deck.

Round 1 vs UW Miracle. 2-0
Game 1 : I won the die roll, I got a good hand, 1 Veteran Explorer, 2 Lands, 1 Zenith, Cabal Therapy and 1 Huntmaster of the Fells, i disrupt his hand early and he doesn't have any answer to Huntmaster and a Thragtusk that came from Green Sun Zenith.

Game 2 : Mainboard out : 4 Veteran Exlorer, 4 Cabal Therapy, 1 Olivia Voldaren, 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Pernicious Deed. Sideboard in : 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 3 Hymn to Tourach, 2 Duress, 3 Carpet of Flowers. Opening hand i got an early disrupt, Carpet of Flowers, Pyroblast and a 2 Green Sun Zenith. Disrupt + Carpet of Flowers + back up Pyroblast wins the game also a couple of Abrupt Decay that hit his counterbalance.

Round 2 vs Sneaky Show 1-2

Game 1 : Opening hand 1 Veteran Exlorer, Liliana of the Veil, 3 Lands and 1 Zenith, 1 Abrupt Decay. Im on the draw. He plays a land pondered then passes the turn. I only play Veteran Exlorer and pass the turn. 2nd turn he put his Ancient Tomb then cast Show and Tell and put Emrakul and i just put my land then passes his turn while smiling infront my face, Im just thinking that i can survive Emrakul if he doesn't have any counter in his hand. During my turn I cast my Liliana of the Veil and hoping that he doesn't have any counter in his hand. Successfuly i used the 2nd Ability of Liliana to put down his Emrakul then he was already controlled by Liliana.

Game 2 : An Easy win for him he has his Leyline of Sanctity in his opening hand, my Disrupt was locked in my hand and i could't get my Maelstorm Pulse in my deck.

Game 3 : Same as game 2 but he mulled for Leyline of Sanctity.

Round 3 : vs Esper Stoneblade. 2-0

Game 1 : Abrupt decay kills his Stoneforge Mystic and a couple of disrupt via Cabal Therapy and Huntmaster sealed the game.

Game 2 : win via Abrupt + Punishing Grove combo and early Carpet of Flowers and early Thragtusk wins the game.

Round 4 : vs Belcher 1-2
Game 1 : Lost via 1st turn Belcher

Game 2 : I play my Veteran Explorer then passes the turn. He combo out via Empty the Warrens with 16 Goblins then passes the turn. I put my Phyrexian Tower and sacrifice my Explorer and Deed for 0. Thragtusk via Zenith sealed the game.

Game 3 : He mulls for 6 then puts the Lion's Eye Diamond then passes the turn. I put my Veteran Explorer 1st turn even if i had an opening Cabal Therapy in hand, i think this was also my missplay during game 3. During his turn he got a top decked Belcher come from a Gitaxian Probe that sealed our game.

Round 5 : vs Dredge 2-0

Game 1 : An early Zenith to Scavenging Ooze sealed the game.

Game 2 : same as game 1 Scavenging Ooze is the MVP.


Thank you for reading my tournament report.

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Originally Posted by kabards

Ok this is my Tournament Report for tonight after playing 5 rounds of Swiss battling out for a Box of Return to Ravnica. I'm using my Punishing Nic-Fit 30+ players came to test their newly built deck.

Round 1 vs UW Miracle. 2-0
Game 1 : I won the die roll, I got a good hand, 1 Veteran Explorer, 2 Lands, 1 Zenith, Cabal Therapy and 1 Huntmaster of the Fells, i disrupt his hand early and he doesn't have any answer to Huntmaster and a Thragtusk that came from Green Sun Zenith.

Game 2 : Mainboard out : 4 Veteran Exlorer, 4 Cabal Therapy, 1 Olivia Voldaren, 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Pernicious Deed. Sideboard in : 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 3 Hymn to Tourach, 2 Duress, 3 Carpet of Flowers. Opening hand i got an early disrupt, Carpet of Flowers, Pyroblast and a 2 Green Sun Zenith. Disrupt + Carpet of Flowers + back up Pyroblast wins the game also a couple of Abrupt Decay that hit his counterbalance.

Round 2 vs Sneaky Show 1-2

Game 1 : Opening hand 1 Veteran Exlorer, Liliana of the Veil, 3 Lands and 1 Zenith, 1 Abrupt Decay. Im on the draw. He plays a land pondered then passes the turn. I only play Veteran Exlorer and pass the turn. 2nd turn he put his Ancient Tomb then cast Show and Tell and put Emrakul and i just put my land then passes his turn while smiling infront my face, Im just thinking that i can survive Emrakul if he doesn't have any counter in his hand. During my turn I cast my Liliana of the Veil and hoping that he doesn't have any counter in his hand. Successfuly i used the 2nd Ability of Liliana to put down his Emrakul then he was already controlled by Liliana.

Game 2 : An Easy win for him he has his Leyline of Sanctity in his opening hand, my Disrupt was locked in my hand and i could't get my Maelstorm Pulse in my deck.

Game 3 : Same as game 2 but he mulled for Leyline of Sanctity.

Round 3 : vs Esper Stoneblade. 2-0

Game 1 : Abrupt decay kills his Stoneforge Mystic and a couple of disrupt via Cabal Therapy and Huntmaster sealed the game.

Game 2 : win via Abrupt + Punishing Grove combo and early Carpet of Flowers and early Thragtusk wins the game.

Round 4 : vs Belcher 1-2
Game 1 : Lost via 1st turn Belcher

Game 2 : I play my Veteran Explorer then passes the turn. He combo out via Empty the Warrens with 16 Goblins then passes the turn. I put my Phyrexian Tower and sacrifice my Explorer and Deed for 0. Thragtusk via Zenith sealed the game.

Game 3 : He mulls for 6 then puts the Lion's Eye Diamond then passes the turn. I put my Veteran Explorer 1st turn even if i had an opening Cabal Therapy in hand, i think this was also my missplay during game 3. During his turn he got a top decked Belcher come from a Gitaxian Probe that sealed our game.

Round 5 : vs Dredge 2-0

Game 1 : An early Zenith to Scavenging Ooze sealed the game.

Game 2 : same as game 1 Scavenging Ooze is the MVP.


Thank you for reading my tournament report.

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So it seems that Scapewish/Punishing Fit/Jund in general seems like the best bet in a fair environment, but very susceptible to the deck/hand based combo decks. Since Dredge has always been grave-based and, to a certain extent, alpha-strike based as opposed to cheat-in-big-bad-and-win or copy-this-spell-thirty-times-and-win, I'm not exactly surprised by that game.

Though, I have to ask: did you think you could win against Belcher if you had Therapied for something first?

So I've been testing Deathrite Shaman a little and while I haven't played many games with it yet, I wasn't very impressed with it. I feel that Birds of Paradise might just be stronger, more consistently producing mana when that's what's needed (which is what i wanted Shaman to do).

Have any of you done much testing with the card? I'm really curious if it has a place in the deck since it seems really strong.

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Originally Posted by MrIggins

So I've been testing Deathrite Shaman a little and while I haven't played many games with it yet, I wasn't very impressed with it. I feel that Birds of Paradise might just be stronger, more consistently producing mana when that's what's needed (which is what i wanted Shaman to do).

Have any of you done much testing with the card? I'm really curious if it has a place in the deck since it seems really strong.

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I don't think Deathrite Shaman does what this deck wants. On the flip side, I'm of the opinion that Deathrite Shaman is going to be the Noble Hierarch / Mom of Jund decks. The introduction of Deathrite Shaman and Abrupt Decay gives me the feeling that straight up Jund decks are actually viable now. They have enough beaters, they have enough disruption now, and they have enough removal now.

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Originally Posted by EpicLevelCommoner

So it seems that Scapewish/Punishing Fit/Jund in general seems like the best bet in a fair environment, but very susceptible to the deck/hand based combo decks. Since Dredge has always been grave-based and, to a certain extent, alpha-strike based as opposed to cheat-in-big-bad-and-win or copy-this-spell-thirty-times-and-win, I'm not exactly surprised by that game.

Though, I have to ask: did you think you could win against Belcher if you had Therapied for something first?

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Maybe i could win my belcher match in 3rd game i would name Pyretic/Desperate Ritual i his hand rather than Belcher or Burning Wish to slower his phase then if i got named the correct card i would already name that match. I think it's better if you would be aggresively disrupt his hand early rather that put a Veteran Explorer and pass the turn, and well that was my Missplay during that game.

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Originally Posted by kabards

Ok this is my Tournament Report for tonight after playing 5 rounds of Swiss battling out for a Box of Return to Ravnica. I'm using my Punishing Nic-Fit 30+ players came to test their newly built deck.

Round 1 vs UW Miracle. 2-0
Game 1 : I won the die roll, I got a good hand, 1 Veteran Explorer, 2 Lands, 1 Zenith, Cabal Therapy and 1 Huntmaster of the Fells, i disrupt his hand early and he doesn't have any answer to Huntmaster and a Thragtusk that came from Green Sun Zenith.

Game 2 : Mainboard out : 4 Veteran Exlorer, 4 Cabal Therapy, 1 Olivia Voldaren, 1 Punishing Fire, 1 Pernicious Deed. Sideboard in : 2 Pyroblast, 1 Red Elemental Blast, 3 Hymn to Tourach, 2 Duress, 3 Carpet of Flowers. Opening hand i got an early disrupt, Carpet of Flowers, Pyroblast and a 2 Green Sun Zenith. Disrupt + Carpet of Flowers + back up Pyroblast wins the game also a couple of Abrupt Decay that hit his counterbalance.

Round 2 vs Sneaky Show 1-2

Game 1 : Opening hand 1 Veteran Exlorer, Liliana of the Veil, 3 Lands and 1 Zenith, 1 Abrupt Decay. Im on the draw. He plays a land pondered then passes the turn. I only play Veteran Exlorer and pass the turn. 2nd turn he put his Ancient Tomb then cast Show and Tell and put Emrakul and i just put my land then passes his turn while smiling infront my face, Im just thinking that i can survive Emrakul if he doesn't have any counter in his hand. During my turn I cast my Liliana of the Veil and hoping that he doesn't have any counter in his hand. Successfuly i used the 2nd Ability of Liliana to put down his Emrakul then he was already controlled by Liliana.

Game 2 : An Easy win for him he has his Leyline of Sanctity in his opening hand, my Disrupt was locked in my hand and i could't get my Maelstorm Pulse in my deck.

Game 3 : Same as game 2 but he mulled for Leyline of Sanctity.

Round 3 : vs Esper Stoneblade. 2-0

Game 1 : Abrupt decay kills his Stoneforge Mystic and a couple of disrupt via Cabal Therapy and Huntmaster sealed the game.

Game 2 : win via Abrupt + Punishing Grove combo and early Carpet of Flowers and early Thragtusk wins the game.

Round 4 : vs Belcher 1-2
Game 1 : Lost via 1st turn Belcher

Game 2 : I play my Veteran Explorer then passes the turn. He combo out via Empty the Warrens with 16 Goblins then passes the turn. I put my Phyrexian Tower and sacrifice my Explorer and Deed for 0. Thragtusk via Zenith sealed the game.

Game 3 : He mulls for 6 then puts the Lion's Eye Diamond then passes the turn. I put my Veteran Explorer 1st turn even if i had an opening Cabal Therapy in hand, i think this was also my missplay during game 3. During his turn he got a top decked Belcher come from a Gitaxian Probe that sealed our game.

Round 5 : vs Dredge 2-0

Game 1 : An early Zenith to Scavenging Ooze sealed the game.

Game 2 : same as game 1 Scavenging Ooze is the MVP.


Thank you for reading my tournament report.

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I think I won our game 2 with Firestorm on your Ooze. :tongue: Great tournament report, and thanks for the advice on Nic Fit. I am planning to pick the deck up sometime soon, probably by December :tongue:

Deathrite Shaman would be fit sideboard by BG decks, but for Nic-Fit scavenging ooze is enough for this deck just my opinion

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sherko7

I think I won our game 2 with Firestorm on your Ooze. :tongue: Great tournament report, and thanks for the advice on Nic Fit. I am planning to pick the deck up sometime soon, probably by December :tongue:

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Oh yeah forgot cause i'm already sleepy when i make this report trying to remember all the things that happen :laugh: 2nd game i loss to Dredge via Zombie swarm and a firestorm in the face of Scavenging :laugh:

Okay, here's the promised update. This is probably going to end up being a pretty huge post, covering a lot of topics, so I'll try to break it up as best I can.

ScapeWish:

4x Veteran Explorer
3x Wood Elves
2x Eternal Witness
3x Huntmaster of the Fells
2x Thragtusk
1x Primeval Titan

3x Pernicious Deed

3x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Cabal Therapy
4x Burning Wish
4x Green Sun's Zenith
2x Scapeshift
2x Bonfire of the Damned

4x Taiga
3x Badlands
3x Bayou
2x Stomping Ground
4x Forest
3x Mountain
2x Swamp
1x Phyrexian Tower
2x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle

SB:
3x Red Elemental Blast
3x Thoughtseize
1x Slaughter Games
1x Tsunami
1x Pulverize
1x Damnation
1x Virtue's Ruin
1x Reanimate
1x Innocent Blood
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Scapeshift


Unfortunately, this Mythic event was a bit smaller than usual -- we only had 23 people instead of the usual 30-35. Prizes were still guaranteed down through top 16, so you had to suck to not get something, although they're probably going to be decreasing a bit for the future, sadly. Regardless, there was a pretty good crop of talent in the room, as is normal for upstate New York.

R1: Gabe with Nic Fit Blue

Gabe's a friend of mine from the Ithaca crew, and he's been experimenting with Nic Fit for a few months now. Last I saw him, he was on straight G/B and hating it. I'd advised him to add a color. He'd previously played a lot of BUG Control, so it's hardly surprising that he went with blue. His list is a good bit different than some others that we've seen in here, for good or for ill. Regardless, game one I kept a slightly sketchy hand because I was pretty sure that he was on Nic Fit, and would therefore be accelerating me. It was like a two-lander with a Wood Elves, a Scapeshift, and some other 4+ drops. He didn't accelerate me (in fact neither of us saw a Veteran all game), but my deck decided it wanted to draw lands, so it worked out anyway. We went back and forth for a little while, I Scapeshifted, and he died.

Game two was hilarious, and featured the kind of shenanigans that can only happen in a Nic Fit mirror. We both had turn 1 Veterans. He swung into me, I blocked, and he played a turn 2 Consecrated Sphinx. He was only at 19, so I couldn't turn 2 him with the Scapeshift in my hand. I decided to be funny instead while waiting to get that one more land/point of damage. I Wished for Innocent Blood, then Wished again for Reanimate, taking his Sphinx. On his turn, he bounced Sphinx with Jace. Then he Therapied me, whiffing but seeing the Scapeshift. He didn't have a creature to flashback, so he died to angry mountains the next turn.

1-0/2-0.

R2: Tony with BW Stoneblade

Tony's my local/frequent carmate that appears in my reports a lot because we always seem to play every freaking event. I don't really remember too much about these games. I know that I won with Scapeshift both games, and I know that g2 he had gained a ton of life with a Batterskull and it just didn't matter. I think the mountains hit for like 42...

2-0/4-0.

R3: Phil with MUD

Phil is an acolyte of Timur's, so I knew that his list was going to be much more dangerous than a traditional MUD deck. Game one I have to choose between leading with Top or Explorer, because there's a very real danger of Chalice@1. I elect to go with Top, and pass turn. He makes a Grim Monolith and ships back. I play the Explorer and pass with Top mana open. He makes a Wurmcoil. We dance around for a bit, with me ramping and him not drawing more land. I eventually Wish for Innocent Blood, then Deed away the tokens and his Monolith -- literally the turn before he draws a Voltaic Key. Phew. He eventually digs out while I'm stuck on like 6 lands with the Scapeshift in hand, but with a Huntmaster and a Thragtusk in play, and drops a Steel Hellkite. I spin Top, see Bonfire, and chuckle. Draw step, Bonfire for 5, swing for lethal.

G2 I elect to not board. I'll be on the draw, so bringing in Thoughtseize is a horrible idea because he probably has Chalice@1. He leads Tomb pass, then drops a t2 Lodestone followed by a t3 Wurmcoil, I think via Monolith. I have four lands, so after doing some math I smile. I Wish for Pulverize, and sac my two mountains to wrath his board. He still has the two tokens, and three lands -- a pair of Tombs and a Port. He punches me and passes, then slips up and fails to Port me on upkeep, which lets me breath a sigh of relief and resolve a Pernicious Deed to kill the tokens. We both take a few turns digging out of our respective holes, and I eventually Scapeshift him for way more than lethal. He looks sad.

Note that at various points in these games, I therapied him and he had Platinum Emperions in his hand, which I was absolutely terrified of. It occurred to me later that I could Scapeshift with lethal +3 mountains, pointed the last three triggers at Emperion, and then the rest at his face and he would have still died. At the time, though, I was scared shitless of that thing.

3-0/6-0.

R4/R5 ID.

Top 8 decides to play, since Henry was playing Big Red and was feeling confidant as the first seed. Naturally he lost in the first round of Top 8, but at that point Top 8 felts like playing it out anyway, so whatever. I was 2nd seed, so once he lost, I got the privilege of being on the play every match!

Top 8: Connor with Death and Taxes

Connor is a newer member of the Ithaca crew, and I think this was actually his first legacy event away from home. Timur attempted to console him at various points because this matchup is ATROCIOUS for Death and Taxes. It's almost impossible for them to beat Scapewish. Game one I Virtue's Ruined him twice, then Scapeshift FTW. The Thoughtseizes in my board were relevant for the first time ever here, as I Wished for one to discard his equipment that he tutored for with Stoneforge. I didn't board anything. Game two looks an awful lot like game one, except I won quicker.

Top 4: Nich with Team Italia

Nich and I have a habit of having good games. He usually falls somewhere in the Deadguy/Zombardment/Italia range...he's been playing Bombardment a lot lately, but since Mythic is developing a tendency for MUD decks (which just SHITS on Bombardment), he opted to play something that doesn't scoop to that matchup.

Both of our boards stay pretty clear throughout these games, and Scapeshift does the heavy lifting. He had some good times ripping Therapy off the top on like turn 20 when we have one card in hand, because obviously it's another Therapy. Etc. At the end of the day, he can't overcome the mountains.

Finals: Some dude with BUG Control

Unfortunately I never got this guy's name. Pretty sure he was another member of the Ithaca crew that I'd not met before, since he had borrowed like half of his deck from Timur. My luck ran out hard here. He goes for fast pressure g1, with a Goyf and a Clique beating down. Other than those two, however, he's flooding out hard, but so am I. He has no cards in hand, and is WELL with Scapeshift range. My outs are like any non-land card in my deck. I rip a Badlands. Awkward. First game I lost all day =(

Game two he drops a fast Jace, and has literally just enough counterspells to protect it. Like...if he had one fewer counterspell or I drew one more threat, I won the game. These games couldn't have been closer. If he drew slightly worse or I drew slightly better, it would have been completely different. Still, though, I'm content with my 2nd place finish, good for $240 store credit, which along with some trade-ins means I now have 2 Goyfs again, and I'm back up to a playset of Bobs (which is relevant for vintage and modern). Scapewish has now won me just shy of a grand between Vestal, Mythic, and local events, making it the most successful version...even if I enjoy the Rector version more =(

There's pretty much nothing I would change about the decklist at the moment. Everything has a purpose, and is the best option for that purpose. Pulverize is a little questionable, and can be replaced if you don't have MUD or Affinity in your local metas. The deck just ROLLS to MUD without it, though, so it's probably worth the insurance to keep it around just in case.

Biggest slop of the day: I didn't open a single Slaughter Games in two boxes, and my foil preorders just shipped on Friday. So Friday night at Draft, I literally SECOND-PICKED a Slaughter Games just so I had one for legacy. And then I DIDN'T FREAKING USE IT ONCE. Rage. So much rage.

Steve was running my Rector deck, and went 2-2-1 for a top 16 finish, largely because he's terrible. He lost to Nich's Team Italia because he didn't get back Sun Titan with Nightmare, opting for Thragtusk instead; he lost to Merfolk because he was stupidly greedy; he beat Burn despite slipping up his Yosei lock at 1 life, while looping Cranial Extraction and somehow failing to take Fireblast; he beat Death and Taxes (different player than top 8); and he drew with a different BW Stoneblade player so that they were both in top 16. I think that he technically won that match, though, when they played it out. He'll be practicing with it all week, and then running it at SCG Providence, so here's hoping he does well with it.

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Topic 2: Rector update / boarding thoughts

1x Starved Rusalka
4x Veteran Explorer
2x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Fierce Empath
2x Eternal Witness
3x Academy Rector
1x Sigarda, Host of Herons
2x Baneslayer Angel
1x Thragtusk
1x Sun Titan
1x Yosei, the Morning Star

1x Moat
3x Pernicious Deed
1x Recurring Nightmare
1x Faith's Fetters
1x Phyrexian Arena

3x Sensei's Divining Top

4x Cabal Therapy
3x Green Sun's Zenith
1x Diabolic Intent
1x Vindicate
1x Maelstrom Pulse

3x Bayou
2x Savannah
1x Scrubland
3x Windswept Heath
3x Verdant Catacombs
3x Forest
3x Plains
2x Swamp
2x Phyrexian Tower

//SB
3x Carpet of Flowers
1x Nether Void
1x Raking Canopy
1x Humility
1x Harmonic Sliver
1x Scavenging Ooze
2x Aven Mindcensor
3x Extirpate
1x Cranial Extraction
1x Memoricide

This hasn't actually changed that much. I've been thinking about putting in a Vraska somewhere, probably in the sideboard, but I haven't tried it yet. Vraska has impressed me as a card, so far, but I don't know what/where I want to put her yet. I suspect that sideboard will be here eventual home, probably at the cost of the do-nothing Mindcensors. I like Mindcensor in theory, because it helps out vs Maverick while also being effective vs combo. In practice, though, they're somewhat underwhelming.

Yosei over Kokusho is completely correct, and I'm annoyed that it took me this long to realize that.

Harmonic Sliver has been awesome, and I believe is correct over Qasali for the "artifact kill dude slot." It kills something and then leaves a body behind to ramp through Tower, pass through Nightmare, or sac to Therapy. This can be surprisingly relevant.

Sakura-Tribes have definitely been better than Viridian Emissaries for me in testing. If you are in a matchup where you need to Therapy them, you can still flash it back on the snake...you don't get your land, but if you're vs combo you care less about the land and more about the discard. Usually, Sakura-Tribe fogs, ramps, and makes Nightmare active much, much earlier than it otherwise would be, which is all I could ask for from a 2-drop.

Ooze has been great in the sideboard. I still like other cards over it in the maindeck, but I can't disagree that Ooze is fantastic in some matchups.

I think that the only change I'm looking at making is cutting the Mindcensors, probably for a Vraska and a Deathrite Shaman, more for testing purposes than tournament readiness. If you're taking Rector to an event and you want to copy my list, run it with Mindcensors for now. They're the weakest link, but I don't have anything that's "confirmed better," if you will.

Now, for sideboarding. Steve specifically asked me to write this up so that he has something to go on for Providence....largely because I kept yelling at him as he boarded out Sakura-Tribe Elder every match.

I will note before I go into this that these are rough guides, not exact do-or-dies. Depending on the player and their individual style/list/experience level, I'll board differently. But as a rule of thumb, here you go:

Maverick:
IN: Ooze, Mindcensors. If they're running Stoneforge, bring in the Sliver.
OUT: Nightmare, 1 Rector, 1 Veteran. If Sliver is coming in too, take out Pulse.
Notes: Maverick runs multiple Oozes, which will make Nightmare horrible. I usually board out 1 Rector to hedge against a competent player, but if the game goes to 3 and I get the feeling that my opponent doesn't know how to exile Rector to fizzle her trigger (don't spread that secret around, since probably 80-90% of people don't know about it), I'll usually board her back in. Pulse is less good than Sliver is if you need an artifact kill for equips, because Mother of Runes is a card. Boarding out 1 Veteran is fine here, because they'll usually ramp your opponent, and that can be dangerous because a lot of Maverick lists have started to adopt Armageddon to fight Miracles. If they Armageddon you g2, board out 2 more Explorers for Cranial and Memoricide to remove that from the equation. If they're running Armageddon, they'll probably board out Thalia, which means you need the ramp a bit less. You still have 1 Explorer at that point to Zenith for, and you still have the Tribe-Elders. Plus, your cards are better at every level on the curve than theirs are.

RUG:
IN: Carpets x3, Canopy, Ooze
OUT: Yosei, Titan, Empath, Nightmare, Phyrexian Arena
Notes: You ride your 5-drops to victory post-board. Baneslayers, Tusk, and Sigarda are all more than capable of finishing the match. You also have the ability to hardlock their combat via Moat + Canopy. Nightmare comes out because RUG often boards in dredge hate in this matchup. If you don't see gy hate g2, feel free to board it back in g3. Arena comes out because RUG can get some wickedly fast openers, and can put you low enough on life, especially with threat of burn, that you bleeding every turn for a card is a bad idea.

Show and Tell (various):
IN: Everything except Canopy and Ooze.
OUT: Deeds, Moat, Nightmare, Sun Titan, Thragtusk, Yosei, Empath, Vindicate, Pulse, 1 Explorer
Notes: Sliver beats Sneak Attack and Omniscience, which is why it comes in. Sometimes that won't be good enough, but you shave percentages where you can. I hate playing vs Show and Tell decks because you have to take out all of your fun cards. Like, the deck is completely anti-fun. Your sole goal in life is to make their life as much of a living hell as they've made yours. Nether Void rapes Omniscience, especially if it comes down before they Show and Tell. Humility turns off Griselbrand and Emrakul. Cranial and Memoricide are obvious. Extirpate pairs with Therapy to strip key threats, like Burning Wish, or if you get lucky, Omniscience/Emrakul/Griselbrand/Show and Tell. Extirpating Brainstorm is perfectly acceptable too, because it will both slow them down and make their deck much clunkier -- if they can't trade in excess combo pieces for cards that do something, they bog down really quickly. Don't forget that Therapy (they in resp. Brainstorm hiding their good cards), followed by Extirpate can be a pseudo Mind Twist, since it forces them to shuffle away their two best cards. Carpets accelerate you into more bombs. Etc. Try to be as much of a dick as you can, and you're probably on the right track.

Miracles:
IN: Carpet x3, Cranial, Memoricide, Canopy, Sliver.
OUT: Explorer x4, Deed x2, Moat
Notes: Most Miracles players I've played against board out Counterbalance in this matchup. Regardless, if you're on the play, you call Top with Therapy. If you're on the draw, you call Counterbalance just in case. Counterbalance can be a big problem if it comes down early. Mid-late game, though, and it's useless -- which is why IMO boarding it out is correct from the Miracles viewpoint. Explorer is horrible here because they have as many basics as we do, but their threats are Jace+counterspells and Entreat. Sliver gives you can out to Counterbalance, but more importantly it acts as a Green-Sunnable Naturalize for Detention Sphere/O-Ring. Fetters locks down Jace. Canopy nullifies Entreat until they can find a Sphere/Ring. You only need 1 Deed in deck because it's largely horrible against them, but you want 1 copy so you can just sit on it to make Entreat bad. Cranial and Memoricide take Entreat ASAP, followed by Jace. They're a slow, durdly control deck with like 3 win conditions. Strip their wincons and they get much, much worse. Your threat density is insane, especially with Nightmare looping and Yosei threatening to lock them out. Arena is amazing in this matchup, since they have no actual card advantage -- they live off the top of their deck with Top, and can't actually draw cards.

That's all I'm going to say about sideboarding, because I think that you should be able to get the general gist of what you board in vs what. The thought patterns are basically the same for every other legacy deck.

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I have one more topic to discuss, but I'll make a separate post for that, since my browser is lagging. I don't like double-posting, but this post has grown large enough that I feel it necessary for my sanity, if nothing else.

Okay, post #2, topic #3: Future Sight.

Timur (Zirath on here) and I were talking about this a good bit Saturday, and after watching Gabe go totally apeshit one game with a Oracle of Mul Daya, I think that there really is something to be said for the idea. However, I think that Future Sight is more of a specific version under the umbrella of Nic Fit Blue, as we have PFire, Scapewish, and Jund under Nic Fit Red, and so on. If you just shove Future Sight into a blue Nic Fit deck, I agree with whoever noted earlier that it's win more. It definitely is. That said, I feel that there is a Future Sight-centered build to be discovered that is at least as good, if not better than the BUG lists. There are two primary issues that I see on inception:

1: no white. Unless we want to get really, really crazy with the mana base (looking at you, City of Brass), there's no way we can easily splash white, and I've noticed that basically every BUG Nic Fit list I come up with is better with white. Sigarda is still the best, Unburial Rites is still amazing, Sun Titan still goes hand-in-hand with filthy Gifts piles, and so on. I will note here that, to my knowledge, there has never been a City of Brass control deck in legacy, while Vintage had 5c Stax for many years. I'm not sure that now is really the time, but the idea HAS been effective in the past.

2: Finding Future Sight. If we're basing a list around the concept of Future Sight, then we need either a way to efficiently find it, or ways to emulate it. Oracle of Mul Daya comes immediately to mind here, as a solid GSZ target if nothing else. The lack of white bites us in the ass yet again, as we can't use Rector or Enlightened Tutor to act as additional copies. At the same time, we don't really want multiple Future Sights, because they're absolutely useless in multiple. "Yeah man, I can REALLY cast shit from the top of my deck now!"

My best thought for #2 invalidates #1: Grim Tutor. Diabolic Intent is also an option, but that depends on how many creatures we're running. I believe that something like 2 Grim/2 Intent is probably a reasonable place to start, and then can be pared/tuned later depending on testing. With Thragtusk and something like Elixir of Immortality, the lifeloss from Tutor should be able to be compensated for, and while most decks care about the 3-mana cost, we really don't.

-This- is a version I can wholeheartedly support Trinket Mage in. Finding Top is going to be very important, and a Future Sight list is going to want to be abusing the topdeck lands as much as possible (Volrath's Stronghold and Academy Ruins). Primeval Titan is probably important. Mage can also find Elixir of Immortality, which buys a chunk of time and provides a cheap, renewable shuffle effect. It would also allow us to not worry about milling out from excessive card advantage...or if we just went balls-deep and ran the Helm/Cloud Key while we're at it, to storm off. Obviously Jace and Brainstorm are the nuts here, as they quickly become Recall depending on what we're putting back on top.

I have yet to sketch up a list, but I am very interested in pushing R&D forward on this. I'd also be very interested to hear what thoughts you've had thusfar, Timur -- hopefully we can get something hammered out here, because I do believe there is potential, even if it'll be a few months before it's ready for Jupiter/Mythic.

Infinite shout outs. For reference, the BUG player is Morgan; he's relatively new to our group (about a month) but he's definitely doing good work. And yes, almost the entire deck was composed of my cards. The only cards that weren't mine were Jace, Deed, Abrupt Decay and Shaman and that's only because my Jaces are on loan.

In addition, we have been calling Nich's deck the White Picket Fence. Originally, he used to play a BR deck that was the evolution of the Gate, which we called the Fence. Why the Fence? You can hop over it. We've added white and here we are now.

On the topic of Future Sight, I have been tossing this in my head for a long time. Here's the cards I know I want to play:

4 Veteran Explorer
4 Cabal Therapy
1 Future Sight
2-3 Jace the Mind Sculptor
3 Sensei's Diving Top

Luckily, this is very open ended.

In addition to the white issue (Rector is the best tutor), the other problem is the nature of black and blue. Black and blue, by far, are the most parasitic colors in Legacy. The most powerful black cards require you to have absurd amounts of black mana (Grim Tutor) and they require you to tap out. The most powerful blue cards require you to play other blue cards to make those blue cards good (Force). This creates a problem in deck construction because you can't go deep in either color because you will either end up with to much manipulation or too much disruption.

Now the other issue is what does the deck do. You've already suggested the Trinket Mage toolbox (I hate Trinket Mage for reference); however, the Helm-Top combo is something I can get behind because of how powerful of a secondary win it can be. The thought I had was going into the Turboland area. You have Jace and Explorer and we already talked about Oracle. This kind of deck can also reward you for playing permission (Mystic Snake) because you will have an effective extra card. You also get rewarded more for Fact or Fiction since it draws even more cards with Future Sight and it finds Future Sight better than other cards besides Grim Tutor.

I could also get behind 5CC. Gotta play all the Magus of the Moon.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Scapewish has now won me just shy of a grand between Vestal, Mythic, and local events, making it the most successful version...even if I enjoy the Rector version more =(

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The Rector version is mighty fun to play, but half the reason I asked a couple weeks back about running different versions is because Scapeshift seems to be the nuts. Sadly I am miles away from having the resources for that build.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Steve was running my Rector deck, and went 2-2-1 for a top 16 finish, largely because he's terrible. He lost to Nich's Team Italia because he didn't get back Sun Titan with Nightmare, opting for Thragtusk instead; he lost to Merfolk because he was stupidly greedy; he beat Burn despite slipping up his Yosei lock at 1 life, while looping Cranial Extraction and somehow failing to take Fireblast; he beat Death and Taxes (different player than top 8); and he drew with a different BW Stoneblade player so that they were both in top 16. I think that he technically won that match, though, when they played it out. He'll be practicing with it all week, and then running it at SCG Providence, so here's hoping he does well with it.

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I've been on the Nic Fit train for only 3 or so months now and only now feel like I really have it down (though I'm the type of player who needs lots and lots of games w/ a deck). Part of the reason Nic Fit is awesome though, is the complexity makes it fun. Prior to Nic Fit I was on UR Delver for 2 months and couldn't wait to be done w/ it (after GP Atlanta).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Topic 2: Rector update / boarding thoughts

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I'm on a very similar list these days:
-1 Baneslayer, -1 SDT, +1 Eladamri's Call, +1 Elspeth Knight-Errant

Not too surprising though, given I modeled it after much of your leg work :cool: I've got some slight mana base changes too, but they're more due to availability than anything. Seems solid as I have it though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

This hasn't actually changed that much. I've been thinking about putting in a Vraska somewhere, probably in the sideboard, but I haven't tried it yet. Vraska has impressed me as a card, so far, but I don't know what/where I want to put her yet. I suspect that sideboard will be here eventual home, probably at the cost of the do-nothing Mindcensors. I like Mindcensor in theory, because it helps out vs Maverick while also being effective vs combo. In practice, though, they're somewhat underwhelming.

I think that the only change I'm looking at making is cutting the Mindcensors, probably for a Vraska and a Deathrite Shaman, more for testing purposes than tournament readiness. If you're taking Rector to an event and you want to copy my list, run it with Mindcensors for now. They're the weakest link, but I don't have anything that's "confirmed better," if you will.

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My board differs a bit more:
-2 Mindcensor, -1 Extirpate, +1 O-Ring, +1 Thrun, +1 Leyline

O-Ring is good because you can put it on any Show & Tell and take out whatever they play. They'll still get a chance to respond w/ instants off Omni or draw of Grisselbrand, but I think it's solid. Thrun and Leyline I'm less sold on. When I put in Leyline I love it in the opener, but seldom is it worth mulling for, so maybe it's wrong. I actually put Thrun in vs Maverick. Hexproof (stones StP) + regeneration go a long way.

Speaking of new toys, I have yet to figure out how to squeeze in an Abrupt Decay. It replaces neither Vindicate nor Maelstrom Pulse thanks to the occasional need to nuke a land or respond to an Empty the Warrens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Arianrhod

Now, for sideboarding. Steve specifically asked me to write this up so that he has something to go on for Providence....largely because I kept yelling at him as he boarded out Sakura-Tribe Elder every match.

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This is a constant battle for me too. "No, do not board out Elders!" It seems like such a lame card, but sometimes you gotta have it. Same w/ Rusalka. It's counter-intuitive to be boarding out Deeds, Explorers, and bombs with this deck.

The boarding advice is solid. I should put it in my notebook just so I'm not doubting myself about taking out 'key' cards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by slikwilly

This is a constant battle for me too. "No, do not board out Elders!" It seems like such a lame card, but sometimes you gotta have it. Same w/ Rusalka. It's counter-intuitive to be boarding out Deeds, Explorers, and bombs with this deck.

The boarding advice is solid. I should put it in my notebook just so I'm not doubting myself about taking out 'key' cards.

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I tend to think of boarding the deck as such: game one, we want the most ludicrous over-the-top shenanigans we can get, because we don't want to lose game one if we can at all avoid it. We need all of those bombs, because that's how we win games.

However, some decks, we don't need them. Or we need different bombs.

Like vs RUG -- it's actually impossible to RUG to beat Sigarda. You don't need Sun Titan there, or Yosei. All they do is end up in your opening hand and make you rage because you're going to struggle getting to that much mana (and be Daze proof). They can't profitably interact with Thragtusk. They can Gilded Drake Baneslayer, which is annoying, but they have to find one before she kills them -- and even then, you can either sac your Baneslayer to Rusalka/Tower in resp to the trigger, or you can crack Deed@2, which causes the trigger to fizzle as well. And believe me, there are few things scarier than RUG of all decks having a Sun Titan. He is the literal first card I take out g2 -- even though he's usually an all-star g1. Like you said, it's very counter-intuitive.

Also don't disregard the bombiness of stuff like Cranial Extraction. There are plenty of matchups where that's all the bomb you need. It doesn't fight in the traditional way, and it can't really turn sideways, but it can do every bit as much damage as an unchecked Sun Titan can when used properly.