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I like your sideboard solutions but this feels wrong. You can also disenchant their equipments and Phyrexian Revoker. Just the revoker bit seems strong enough and then on top of that you have all their equipment. Also, if they bring in additional hate like Pithing Needle, then it will be even more useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pherion
You're right. I wasn't thinking of equipment! In fact I played a game today against DnT. Disenchant did lots of work. The match is really easy though. Game 1 I ended up with a Jace and Lilly out ><, and game 2 he went all in w/ a t1 vial and walked into a Force.Quote:
Originally Posted by useL
I wouldn't say DnT is an easy matchup for any deck really, it is just a very good and resilient deck all around. The disparity between good and bad DnT players is very large however, and that can make all the difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pherion
I just had another game against Shardless BUG. Even when it goes well, it will just take a little longer, and Shardless BUG will win after using more than half of it's deck :frown:
Ofc they could be screwed sometimes and you will be able to land a Jace or Batterskull in time, but still... I just hope to dodge the deck ^_^!
Went 3-1 at a SCG Open Trial with UW Stoneblade, good for 3rd out of 12. Beat RUG Delver, Sneak & Show and Reanimator, lost to Patriot. I liked being able to fetch for lots of basics without worry of Wasteland/Blood Moon. Swan Song is the stone cold nuts versus Sneak & Show.
What happened in the UWR Delver match? I don't get much play against the matchup.
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He was on the play game 1 and just had the nuts; SFM -> Batterskull + 3 Force of Wills to protect. Game 2, I kept a greedy hand and got punished for it by his Wasteland + my Brainstorm not finding me additional colored mana sources. The match was over in like 8 minutes or something.
A few things I learned/re-affirmed was that Rest in Peace is nutty vs. RUG Delver, Swan Song is insane vs. Sneak & Show, and having a rock solid manabase is the way to ensure TNN and Jace are hitting consistently.
How is the matchup generally speaking? How do you normally sideboard against it?
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Was struggling hard lately to make Jace stick, not only because of the tax to play around Daze and Pierce, but also because of REB's. Thinking about other ways to create some CA like adjusting the count of Snapcasters and maybe add Liliana's to get rid of TNN and Fatties.
What's your take on the cardadvantage/Planeswalkers atm? I'm not quite up to date and would like to catch up as well as hearing recent experience with TNN vs. Clique. Thx guys
Would a couple of Lingering Souls be an option? It may be no good as a lot of threats in this deck die to -1/-1 effects but I thought I would mention it because it is something that I have been thinking about lately. Could just tweak the permission with those slots. I am playing elspeth in my list and I love her. I have also thought about a 3-way split putting 1 of each in. I dunno.
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I dropped to 2 Jace and they come out vs half of the decks that see play, but I will not drop them entirely. But I also play 2 copy's of Snapcaster, and don't want more with all the Deathrites around. I also tried 1 Liliana but I too often don't want to discard...Quote:
Originally Posted by Lemnear
The Liliana-issues is imo closely tied to running a build without FoW (at least in the MD). Could be wrong, but the number of cards in Hand usually drops fast in generalQuote:
Originally Posted by Lans89
If he's on the play, it's pretty rough as they can just open with Delver + protect it ftw some games while also being able to play a more grindy-midrange game of SFM-Equipment-TNN, all while keeping you off kilter with Wasteland and soft counters. It's pretty rough if you're on the draw. We did play some funsies games after the tourney match and I crushed him as I was able to land my SFM first, land my TNN first (fetching basics is key and I do not fear Stifle as Owen's Patriot list doesn't run them). Patriot is fairly threat light, like most Delver decks are, so if you can StP/counter they dude, do so. Often times that'll be their only threat, then they spend the next turn or two burning cantrips, digging for another threat while also trying to stop yours from coming down. If I can push the game to turn 4-5, and I'm still at a reasonable life total while facing down 1 threat, I feel like I'm getting there as my later game (Jace, Verdict) just trumps pretty much anything that have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
I believe I boarded like this versus Patriot:
-2 Spell Pierce, +1 Flusterstorm, +1 True-Name Nemesis
-1 Counterspell, +1 Disenchant
-1 Snapcaster Mage, +1 Supreme Verdict
My feeling is that I should be able to get there unless he has the nuts. Game 1, he had turn 1 Delver on the play + 3 FoWs in his first 10 cards, so there wasn't anything I could do about that. Like I said, game 2, I kept a greedy hand and got punished for it. Our funsies games though played out as I think it normally will (I crushed) unless he has the stonecold nuts.
This is my list I took to the SCG Open Trial:
2 Vendilion Clique
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 True-Name Nemesis
4 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Batterskull
1 Umezawa’s Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Counterspell
2 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
4 Force of Will
4 Brainstorm
4 Swords to Plowshares
1 Academy Ruins
1 Karakas
2 Plains
2 Marsh Flats
3 Polluted Delta
3 Island
4 Tundra
4 Flooded Strand
4 Mishra’s Factory
Sideboard
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Disenchant
3 Rest in Peace
1 True-Name Nemesis
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Flusterstorm
2 Swan Song
1 Detention Sphere
1 Supreme Verdict
3 Meddling Mage
Against RUG Delver, I boarded as such:
-3 Snapcaster Mage, + 3 Rest in Peace
-1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor, +1 True-Name Nemesis
-1 Counterspell, +1 Supreme Verdict
My thought behind cutting Snapcaster was that Rest in Peace has a much, much greater impact on their deck than Snapcaster does, plus I know that RUG boards in a healthy amount of REBs/Pyroblasts, so Snapcaster's effectiveness is reduced even further. As expected, Rest in Peace was a blowout in games 2 and 3, effectively leaving him with 4-6 actual threats once his Goyfs and Mongeese were neutralized by Rest in Peace.
With Bolt, REB/Pyroblast and opposing TNN running rampant in RUG Delver postboard, I felt comfortable boarding out a Jace and going more on the SFM-Equipment-TNN plan which typically trumps decks that are running TNN (he brought in 2 postboard), but no equipment. I cut a Counterspell in favor of having access to 2 Supreme Verdict as RUG Delver can sometimes get the nut hand with 1-3 threats on board while gripping 4 counterspells.
Against Sneak & Show, I boarded as such:
-3 True-Name Nemesis, +3 Meddling Mage
-2 Spell Snare, +2 Swan Song
-2 Swords to Plowshares, +1 Venser, Shaper Savant, +1 Detention Sphere
-1 Counterspell, +1 Flusterstorm
-1 Sword of Fire and Ice, +1 Sword of Feast and Famine
-1 Supreme Verdict, +1 Disenchant
True-Name Nemesis does nothing in this matchup whereas Meddling Mage comes down a turn earlier and can wreak havoc on Sneak & Show. Spell Snare hits nothing in their deck, whereas Swan Song hits literally every spell of theirs. Venser + Detention Sphere can do work off a Show & Tell or just simply hardcast at the opportune time whereas StPs are mostly dead (I kept 2 just in case of Grizzeldaddy). Flusterstorm does a better job of ending counterwars than Counterspell does and for 1 less mana at that. SoFaF vs. combo is a gimme, so SoFaI came out. And Supreme Verdict is worse than Disenchant vs. a deck that will have Blood Moon, Pithing Needle and Sneak Attack postboard.
Swan Song, Disenchant and SoFaF were MVPs for games 2 and 3. Swan Song countered a Blood Moon (keeping my Karakas turned on) game 2 and SoFaF sealed the deal game 3 as he couldn't keep both combo pieces in hand thanks to the discard trigger. Swan Song was particularly nice as tapping a single mana versus Sneak & Show's 3-4 mana just felt like pure win all the time.
I have a question:
How awesome does it feel to have a True-Name Nemesis equipped with a Sword of Fire and Ice/
Umezawa's Jitte and then turn that equipped TNN sideways? Is it satisfying? Does it improve the quality of your life?
Is Decay an issue with it being able to blow up non-BS equips?
How does it feel to have TNN in the format? Does it crush your soul and make you scream for a ban in your nightmares?
Equipment makes TNN far more deadly, so yes, Decay is a pretty good answer.
Nah, I just Terminus.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
But it doesn't remove TNN who can help stall until you get more equipment or another TNN. Just wondering how much we care about Decay.Quote:
Equipment makes TNN far more deadly, so yes, Decay is a pretty good answer.
@DragoFireheart,
Not especially. Nemesis is merely a means to an end and the way people derive pleasure out of magic is subjective.
Decay is akin to any other piece of removal and the only blowouts are when you desperately need Jitte charges or a Batterskull to gain you some life. Just like most removal, this deck is designed to care very little about it. Losing an equipment is generally a trade in your favor anyways because you got that piece of equipment for free in the first place.
By the tone of your post you seem to be a bit flustered by Nemesis in general and attribute its degeneracy to the players that play this card. The card is powerful and legal. If this fact somehow makes you enjoy Magic less, the game remains Magic nonetheless.
True, but a Squire is not impressive. :laugh:Quote:
Originally Posted by Qweerios
I consider it a roughly even trade, but I was curios about the impact of losing equipment for your TNNs. I know pre-TNN it felt sorta bad to have your jitte blown up after fetching it with SFM.
I'm more frustrated about not having any. Waiting for WotC to make up its mind.Quote:
By the tone of your post you seem to be a bit flustered by Nemesis in general and attribute its degeneracy to the players that play this card. The card is powerful and legal. If this fact somehow makes you enjoy Magic less, the game remains Magic nonetheless.
What does the DCI have to make up its mind about?
Whether to not ban it and force me to spend 30+ on a single or to ban it and likely give me a 50%+ discount for table-top trolling/Vintage TNN deck.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
A Fish that can chump most of MUDs creatures in Vintage is pretty cool.
The echo chamber of The Source is the reason you're not getting TNN...I guess you can do that.
I'd rather meta-game honestly. If it's not good enough to ban, it's weak enough to fall prey to something. The trick is figuring out what's the Achilles Heel of the meta before everyone else catches on.Quote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
I personally can't wait for alternative art. This art is lame. I like zack's show and tell art but this lacks in focal point and lighting.
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Sounds like the Tarmogoyf syndrome: good card, bad art.Quote:
Originally Posted by Secretly.A.Bee
Well, it's better than op goyf art, but still nothing special.
I want to talk about Jace and his current lull in the only format it's legal and played in. If it is in fact no good these days, does it belong in the sideboard for the heavy control matchup? What should take its place if in fact it is unnecessary? Is liliana a good card for us? I see several lists running multiple Verdict's in the main. Is this to combat faster TNNs in a mirror/UWR Delver? Is it working? Lots more to come, but let's start with this.
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I've been thinking of going down to 2 Jace main and up my Verdict count to 2 main (currently 1 main, 1 sideboard). But Jace is really good in all the games they don't draw TNN whereas Verdict is obviously better in the games they do. It's a tough call, as that's one more dead card in the combo matchups too. I'll do some testing, but I suspect that 2 maindeck Verdict may be too much; running 4 StP, 3 Snapcaster maindeck. Might just cut a StP for the Verdict, ugh, don't know.
2 Jace / 2 Verdict is probably the right call. You really don't want to be sitting pretty against an opposing TNN. Have more Jace and TNN in the side if you want: pitch your verdict to FOW if they are useless in your current matchup. Because you lack enough ways to interact with TNN pre-board, Jace will almost certainly be DOA if the opponent has TNN. I think counting on them to NOT have TNN or not draw into him is a bad idea atm. Unless you see a lot of Storm combo I wouldn't worry too much about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arsenal
@Secretly.a.bee: If we want black, then we're Deathblade. I personally prefer the U/W version of True Blade because DnT is also on the rise and Wasteland is nasty when they draw multiplies. Basics are important in ensuring you can cast those Verdicts and Jaces.
I agree with most of what you said here until you go and say that black means DeathBlade. That's incorrect. It means Esperblade. GREEN is what makes it DeathBlade. You can argue with that all you want but that is my concensus after playing it for almost as long as esperblade. Esperblade is also a control deck and DeathBlade is a midrange. I have a small black splash for discard, but I also run 5 basics (2 plains, 2 island, 1 swamp). I play against Wasteland 1 out of every 2 decks I play against on average and thus far haven't had a problem with my current lineup. Black gives me access to information via discard and post-board I have more options sideboard than just plain white blue does and if I need to I can board out black. I'm not sure when I would ever do that but it's there.Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoFireheart
I'm already at (have been for about 2 weeks) 2 jace, I took the 3rd one out for an Elspeth and haven't looked back. I don't know if this will be better, but I won't be able to tell if I don't test it.
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It isn't just Wasteland though, it's having pull out a basic Swamp turn 1 while your discard still matters, then having to fetch a basic Plains turn 2 for SFM, then on turn 3 you fetch Island, which leaves you unable to cast TNN, Counterspell (if necessary), etc.
UW can just fetch basic Islands and Plains and not have to worry about not having UU or WW (Veridct) on the critical turns it's needed.
I see your points and opinions, I just don't agree so far. I play often against DnT and I do just fine.
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I switched to Esper Trueblade as my primary deck about a month ago, and it's been running extremely smoothly. Team America is the one deck that has given me problems, mostly because of Liliana wrecking my board and stripping me of my removal, so I'm wondering if I'm "doing it wrong". True-Name Nemesis has dramatically improved my matchup against the field, but compared to Lingering Souls (which it replaced), it is a huge liability against Liliana.
My maindeck runs 11 creatures, including 4 flash creatures (Snapcaster Mage, Vendilion Clique, Venser), which I find to be the best answer against Liliana. Ideally, I'd be able to stick a Batterskull to reach the long game, or land a Jace, but I only run two, which makes it hard to land against a tempo deck that also runs Hymn. I have 4 Force, 2 Counterspell, and 3 discard spells in the main.
In my sideboard, I like boarding in an extra Venser, a Path to Exile, a Supreme Verdict, and two copies of Rest in Peace. I've experimented with boarding out all the countermagic, particularly on the play, keeping all the discard in to deal with cards like Krosan Grip; I've also tried boarding out all the discard, leaving all the countermagic in, with the intention of stopping their bombs, but this is quite weak against Thoughtseize/Hymn into Liliana. I've also tried boarding out both discard and countermagic and upping the threat count with Meddling Mages, which are primarily there as a 2/2 body (since it doesn't really help much in terms of disruption) to better pressure Liliana.
I'm not having much success with this though. I find that my best games come when I can stick a quick Batterskull without being wrecked by discard/Grip, or if I can play a Jace against an empty board. Do you guys have any advice on how to approach this matchup?
I run both in Esper, 3 TNN and 2 Lingering Souls as Souls covers a lot of TNN's weaknesses.
What did you cut to make room for both? I run 2TNN 1 L Souls. Still have 2pierce,2ponder,1counterspell as I dont want to dilute the combo muQuote:
Originally Posted by HSCK
Has anybody tried out the back to basics list that Joe Bernal top 8'd with? It looks interesting with all the tri color delver decks and lands variants running around, I think it's a pretty strong hate card in the format right now. I can't find a deck tech or any real information about it. If someone could help me out I would be very appreciative.
As I'm on straight UW, I've been running 2 Spell Snare and have been loving it. I may even consider cutting my 1-of Counterspell and upping my Snare count to 3, it's just that good right now in the meta. The only matchup I really dislike it in is Sneak & Show, but it hits major, relevant targets in SFM + TNN decks and Reanimator, which are major meta players right now.
Indeed, my counter - suite is 4 FoW, 1 Counterspell, 1 pierce, 1 snare. I love it. I've been debating going to 2 snare but my meta is weird and I need to be able to counter trinisphere and other non current legacy decks often. I'm on esperblade.
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Been playing this deck a lot recently.
Recently went 2-2 at a weekly event. Meh.
2 Snapcaster Mage
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 True Name Nemesis
1 Vendillion Clique
4 Brainstorm
4 Force of Will
2 Spell Snare
1 Counterspell
2 Ponder
2 Jace, the Mindsculptor
1 Supreme Verdict
4 Thoughtseize
4 Swords to Plowshares
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Flooded Strand
3 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
1 Karakas
4 Tundra
2 Underground Sea
1 Scrubland
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Board
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Zealous Persecution
2 Flusterstorm
1 Path to Exile
3 Rest in Peace
1 Humility
2 Meddling Mage
1 Pithing Needle
1 Manriki-Gusari
1 Virtures Ruin
And here is what I played against, In a not very detailed match report.
Match 1: Nic Fit/Explorer Pod/EDH deck in legacy
Game 1: No idea what im playing against. End up getting True Name out, however a Thragtusk comes out of nowhere and does work with other big derpy stuff.
Game 2: He fills up the board with creatures, I eventually draw Humility, but it is ripped out of my hand by Cabal Therapy and got smashed by Thragtusk again.
0-2
Match 2: Sneak & Show
Game 1: Emrakul comes out with his noodle like arms and kills me. Not much to say about this one.
Game 2: Show and Tell revealing Humility is pretty solid. Oh and Karakas was there too. GG.
Game 3: Game comes down to him needing to draw a land to be able to cast Sneak Attack. But a well timed clique with a Feast and Famine beatdown ensures Tentacruel and Grizzlebees dont show up.
2-1
Match 3: RUG Delver
Game 1: Get killed by a turn 1 delver. Delver didn't get to go farming either.
Game 2: EE @ 1 + Thoughtseize revealing that he has no counters led me to land True Name and bring the beats.
Game 3: A very well timed clique from his board grabbing the rest in peace lead to the Goyf beat down.
1-2
Match 4: Grixis Delver (Young Pyromancer stuff)
Game 1: Batterskull & True Name Bring the Beats
Game 2: Turn 1 delver goes farming. And then Zealous Persecution laughs in the face of all the creatures in his deck. Batterskull brings the beats.
2-0
So far I like this list.
Spell Snares are the flex slot.
Might go back to Spell Pierce instead of Snare.
Virtues Ruin is in the board because there is quite a bit of Death and Taxes in my meta.
I would Really would like to squeeze in another Counterspell and a Diabolic Edict.
I also had Sword of Fire and Ice in the prior to this,but I really like having Feast and Famine more.
Jace has been pretty underwhelming. It might have been the matches I played against though.
I think since you have access to 1cc discard, running Spell Pierce over Spell Snare is reasonable. Spell Snare is really there to stop SFM (and other 2cc creatures/spells, but mainly SFM right now). As UW doesn't have discard, I need to actually stop SFM from ever happening whereas Esperblade can let SFM resolve if they want, then just 1cc snatch the tutored Equipment.
Esper Players: What do your sideboards look like? What are your problem matchups? I'd like to go into the matchup analyses much more in depth than I can find to simply read about online. We don't have a lot posted in this thread about esper in games 2 and 3.
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Hey all.
I'm an UWR delver player currently, but I've started considering to play straight UW stoneblade, as my local meta punishes greedy manabases a lot.
That said, I'd like to hear opinions on a list I've put up. I'm not really sure if it plays smooth (didn't have the opportunity to test yet), but it looks like the mana base is pretty resilient and even allows for cute shenanigans like back to basics (loved that recent list that used 3 b2b maindeck, but opted not to include it yet).
So, what do you think?
Thanks in advance!
Land (23)
1x Academy Ruins
4x Flooded Strand
5x Island
1x Karakas
2x Marsh Flats
3x Plains
1x Riptide Laboratory
2x Scalding Tarn
4x Tundra
Artifact (4)
1x Batterskull
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Sword of Fire and Ice
1x Umezawa's Jitte
Instant (16)
4x Brainstorm
2x Counterspell
4x Force of Will
2x Spell Pierce
4x Swords to Plowshares
Creature (13)
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Stoneforge Mystic
4x True-Name Nemesis
1x Vendilion Clique
Sorcery (1)
1x Ponder
Planeswalker (3)
3x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Sideboard (15)
2x Disenchant
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Enlightened Tutor
1x Humility
4x Meddling Mage
1x Oblivion Ring
1x Pithing Needle
2x Rest in Peace
1x Sword of Feast and Famine
1x Vendilion Clique