i'm no expert in splashing colors in pox but when i hear about adding blue, i can't help but think of shadow of doubt..
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i'm no expert in splashing colors in pox but when i hear about adding blue, i can't help but think of shadow of doubt..
Talking about splashing colours in Pox decks I brewed a version with Shardless and Ancestral Vision. It works pretty well.
Deck list and mini tournament report here
https://thelibraryatpendrellvale.com...ery-agent-pox/
Sib
Hope you like it
Personally I won't give up mox diamonds. The explosive factor plus turn 1 library into shardless cascade into ancestral is way too good and happens often enough. I love having tombstalker because he is a very difficult to answer threat for the majority of legacy. Creeping tar pit seems good but I have enjoyed lumbering falls for the fact it can't be answered with spot removal. I suppose when you're not running creatures that may not be such an issue though. Not sure how you aren't running Sylvan Library, but I suppose that is just preference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibelius
I ran out of space for Sylvan Library. I was in my first build over the two Duress, but I had to add more turn one plays. Doing nothing on t1 is just not an option. I think that with such a number of spells we don't actually need library but it would be nice to find space for one or two. We are trying to blank removal, both smallpox and our opponents, so running Tombstalker doesnt seem like a good idea. This deck wins, it just takes a while :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
Sib
I like your list don't get me wrong. It seems solid. I just like my list with library and mox diamond. But you are 100% correct when you say blind cascading into diamond is a feel bad. Especially if I don't have land in hand. Such a kick in the front.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sibelius
So, what're everybody's thoughts on eternal masters? I like the sinkhole art and I look forewords to foil deluges, but I think they picked the wrong art for hymn to tourach.
If the price is right i will get myself a set of Sinkholes.
A Pox deck 5-0ed the League a couple days ago. What do you guys think about the build? It's similar to mine, but with some interesting choices. No Innocent Blood surprised me, as did the inclusion of Ob Nixilis.
post a link
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/422686#paperQuote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
Very interesting build. The mikokoro throws me off though. Not sure why you want to give your opponent cards in pox. But it obviously worked for that player.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
If they are hellbent and you have smallpox or liliana they don't get to deploy any cards except at instant speed, also seen some stupid shit vs storm.
If you force them to draw a card in response to infernal tutor after they crack led they aren't hellbent anymore.
clever trick!
I'm aware of the trick vs storm with infernal tutor, but it's good to mention anyway. It just seems odd for a pox deck to run that card. The 2 mana plus land investment just doesn't seem ideal to me. Clearly it worked though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Toxboy
i assume the 2 ratchet bombs in the main is a meta call, the pilot is probably expecting some eldrazi, monastery mentor and young pyromancers..so those should most likely be for the chalices(chalice at 1 hurts) and the token creatures..
i am curious with the demon, its abilities seem really good for pox..i guess as a 1-of its fine..
Ob nixilis seems really good, but the 5 mana is very concerning to meQuote:
Originally Posted by zenitramleirdag
I've been play-testing this build on xmage and with friends, and am pleasantly surprised with how solid it is. I was also concerned with Ob's cost. With ritual, though, he's easy to get on the board Turn 3. He also provides a useful outlet for rituals drawn after the first few turns. When he hits the board, he often has that "game over" effect you get from Nether Void or Abyss in certain match-ups. If you've ground your opponent down and then land the Ob, they're finished.Quote:
Originally Posted by mykatdied
As for Mikokoro, it's been surprisingly useful. Another poster mentioned the synergy between Mikokoro and Liliana/Smallpox once you get your opponent hellbent. I've also used it to put a card in my hand for an emergency scroll activation, and I've used it with a Hymn in hand when opponent only held 1 card.
My concern is likely more around giving your opponent the chance to find more answers and business. I would rather have something that fills my hand and not theirs. Even underworld connection seems better or another nixilis.
I think I'm fine with the one copy, or replace it with a sea-gate wreckage. Also, pointing out that with the ob emblem, the mikokoro is 4 dmg a pop
That could be a perfect reason to run it. Good point actually. If you have liliana and ob out it's not likely that a threat will stickQuote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
Also, found a very compelling reason to run the second nether void. Turns out that if you hit Liliana before they get to five lands, then miracles just can't win the game.
If you have lot of contrôle deck like in my meta is a absolute 😉
That Ob Nixilis list is interesting. I suppose that was a very controllish meta as the deck has no Innocent Bloods. Is Innocent Blood no longer mandatory or was that simply a non-agro meta? :confused:
I am not very high on innocent blood right now, as most of the decks where we want to get creatures off the table that agressively, they have enough creatures to blank blood by the mid-game. I think the general meta is shifting towards wide or recursive removal, a'la deluge, ob, night of soul's betrayal, black sun's zenith, scroll, abyss, with a little suplimental point and click on the lines of murderous cut, victim of night, abrupt decay, dreadbore, vindicate, dismember, ghastly demise, or such. I also think we need to look at actual means of acquiring honest card advantage a'la ob, crucible, dust bowl/drownyard temple, sea-gate wreckage, so as not to get buried by the jace/loan decks
I feel like Innocent Blood is a pretty integral piece to the deck. It only costs one black which is very important with all of the two mana spells we want to play. It deals with Mother of Runes, TNN, big threats, shroud, and redirect effects with very few downsides. Good targeted removal costs 2 which is a crowded slot and all of that removal is still dead to a Marit Lage. Pyromancer and Mentor are good against Innocent Blood, but those cards lose to Cursed Scroll anyways. I do think there is a slot for Murderous Cut, Spinning Darkness, or Toxic Deluge main deck, but I probably wouldn't drop below three copies of Innocent Blood for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quitrex
Toxic Deluge and Night of souls betrayal are good against everything on that list, and are card advantage bc they can take out multiple threats, Innocent blood is not good at all against Marit Lage bc of being a sorcery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chiptoon
Innocent blood is great when you need tempo but the other choices are better if you want card advantage. Pick which you need for your meta. They are all good cards.
I like both of those cards, but they're slow. Unless you have a dark ritual or mox they don't see the battlefield until turns 3 or 4. Pox needs early cheap removal against fast tempo decks like Delver and the three main tribal decks, especially Elves, otherwise it's easy to fall too far behind early.Quote:
Originally Posted by jredelstein
Reid Duke wrote a cool article about high impact cards. He was main decking two Nights' and one Plague to blank all of the X/1 creatures in decks. It's awesome being able to turn those cards into dead draws, but I think you need 1 mana removal in Legacy unless you have something that's recurrable.
To be fair he does have 2 copies of funeral charm which can kill x/1 creatures. He also has 2 ratchet bombs main which can 2 for 1 if not more an opponent. He has a tabernacle for massive hindering of creature strategies. Plus the usual smallpox, scroll and liliana. I wouldn't say he is particularly light in creature removal.
After weighing Innocent Blood against the likes of Vapor Snag, Giant Growth (lol), Lightning Bolt, and Swords to Plowshares, the sorcery speed is a freaking huge setback. Geth's Verdict/Diabolic Edict is the next best thing but 2 mana to cast for me is 1 mana too many. I need to find a way to squeeze in Funeral Charms, Vendetta, or Contagion into my build... facepalm*
And yes, counting Cursed Scroll as CA and as 'instant speed' removal for weenies is great. I just need to find a way where I stop running into 'not enough mana to activate Cursed Scroll while punching opponent with another threat' problem.
I remember in the original Clark Kant thread saying Cursed Scroll is a terrible idea and now, with Liliana, it's now viable but still, if your opponent manages to stuff Liliana with a Pithing Needle or just kills / exiles her, the CS seems to become very difficult to use if you find yourself topdecking things you can't play right away. Or worse, I find the 'cast spell or use CS' dilemma happening more than I'd like it to. Can't do both unfortunately unless you're not running Mishra's and Wastelands. Or the game goes crazy long.
Greetings everyone. I have come to ask you all a stupid question, as stupid questions are all I know.
Is it possible to play this deck without the Nether Void and The Abyss? Or is it maybe possible to play Trinisphere as an alternative? Or am I just an idiot?
I went 3-1 today which is okay.
My first opponent was a storm deck, 2-1.
I hit him with wasteland, hymn, pox and lili, iirc. Tombstalker raced him down.
Second duel he played goblin warrens and I found no answer.
Third duel i played chalice for zero and followed up with lilliana.
He got stuck with one or two cards in hand with few lands in play. He conceded after some turns.
Next i fought Eldrazi. I didn't draw any wastelands despite including them specifically for this match upx-(
Thought-knot Seer probably won the game for my opponent. Nasty creature.
Toxic deluge was definitely not good here. Such aggro deck is like Burn but with creatures it appears.
0-2
One of the local players participated with a humility deck. Probably as a counter to Eldrazis. It was probably a home brew.
(Perhaps his deck is best described as Counterbalance-humility-lingering souls-Bitterblossom-jitte deck.)
The first duel i tried cut him off from mana to play his humility, but failed. One TB and a Nihilith got very small.
I can't recall the second duel.
The third however got to time, but despite having blockers he eventually died to his bitterblossom and my shrieking affliction.
2-1
Last a real surprise win vs Reanimator. First duel he failed to get things going. I put lili in play and forced him to sac Griselbrand. He drew his cards in response but found no force.
I don't know what he had had in his almost full hand but was happy i didn't lose as i had expected.
Next duel i began with Leyline of the Void in play, a possibility he overlooked when he sideboarded.
2-0
4 Bloodghast
3 tombstalker
4 nihilith
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
4 contagion
3 liliana of the veil
2 sensei's divining top
2 shrieking affliction
3 toxic deluge
13 Swamp
4 bloodstained mire
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
4 wasteland
Sideboard
4 leyline of the void
4 chalice of the void
4 engineered plague
1 liliana of the veil
2 pithing needle
As great as those cards are, they aren't necessary. They're just nice to have.Quote:
Originally Posted by AceOfJacks
Ok. Follow up stupid question.
Has Waste Not been tested in any builds of this deck? It could be a potential win condition with Liliana and such.
I know of some rack pox lists that tried it as a replacement to shrieking affliction, but it never took offQuote:
Originally Posted by AceOfJacks
Short answer, for nether void you need some way to push mana costs up while you punish their mana. my preference after void is trinisphere, then go into sphere of resistance and/or main board chalice of the voids. as for the Abyss, it's simply there as an option to murder creatures in a repetitive manner. it can fairly easily be substituted by Night of Soul's Betrayal, as long as you tinker with your other removal spells (a murderous cut seems appropriate) accordingly to be able to hit the shard less agent + goyf style boards. Chains of Mephistopheles is in that same boat: so many of the card draw spells are one drops, chalice on one is relevant, or conversely, they're trying to efficiently chain spells together, which can be disrupted with sphere of resistance, thorn of amethyst, trinisphere etc.
I play GB Pox. I have never run The Abyss but I do own one. I have only run Nether Void once while Omni-Tell was big. I am a big fan of Chains of Mephistopheles which I consistently play 2 in my sideboard. But as many others have said Trinisphere is a great alternative. For expensive cards I'd say Liliana and Wasteland are must haves, the next one I'd want is The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale. (My definition of expensive may be different than yours)Quote:
Originally Posted by AceOfJacks
There was a lot of talk when Waste Not came out. Ultimately the issue is that turns 1 and 2 are critical for making your opponent discard and you can't afford to take a turn off to cast an enchantment that doesn't progress your board.Quote:
Originally Posted by AceOfJacks
Waste Not was a waste [pun lol] but it could work with Mikokoro, Center of the Sea and Obnixilis in tandem. Force your enemy to draw in response to a discard ability.
This is the list I came up with, and then I looked at the first post to see what I did wrong. The only cards I'm missing are 4 Sinkhole (waiting for EMA reprints in hopes that UNL ones go down a few dollars), 1 Nether Void, 1 The Abyss. 24 lands seems borderline low, but I'm going to test Drownyard to see how it plays out.
2 Drownyard Temple
4 Mishra's Factory
10 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Wasteland
3 Cursed Scroll
4 Dark Ritual
4 Hymn to Tourach
3 Innocent Blood
1 Pox
4 Sinkhole
4 Smallpox
2 Spinning Darkness
4 Thoughtseize
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Nether Spirit
1 Nether Void
Sideboard:
1 Chains of Mephistopheles
2 Engineered Plague
2 Helm of Obedience
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
1 The Abyss
If I were to cut athe Abyss and Nether Void to add Trinispheres, I thought 2 might be enough, just to save a little deck space, but maybe 3 might be right? But then I would be inclined to add Funeral Charms or Murderous Cuts, which again means I need to find what to cut.
not sure you need rituals inthe main deck. You got plenty of turn one and two drops. You should hit mana for void easily.
I would cut the rituals and add swamps for a more balanced mana base.
Myself i run 13 Swamps, 4 Bloodstained Mire, 3 Urborg, 4 Wasteland (and soon a Mikokoro) to reliably get BB in my starting hand
I agree that you want a 25th land, and that it should be a swamp. I'm not in agreement on not needing mana acceleration, but if you're considering drown yard temple, you want to at least consider mox diamond over rit. Personally I can't stand spinning darkness in this meta, i'd actually rather see contagion, murderous cut, or even disfigure/dismember in this meta, as darkness doesn't do a single thing to death rite shaman. Also, I don't care for trinisphere in the main, although it's perfectly fine in the board. the point of the nether void is to have an over the top, game ending effect, which trinisphere has noticeably more trouble being. I'd consider a second pox or a crucible in that slot, as either one can provide backbreaking advantages, while still being perfectly serviceable in the matches where they don't shine, unlike trinisphere, which actually has the capacity to hurt you more than it hurts them in half of the matches you're likely to face.
Slight change of pace, Who all is going to columbus this weekend?