[Deck] Imperial Painter

I am going to try out 2 maindeck ensnaring bridges. I feel like they could help out against most of the top decks at the moment, maybe in the place of 1 magus (so now 5 main, 1 magus side) and 1 land or something? This makes Welder even more of a boss. My question is has anyone had success maindecking bridges? The other question is has anyone used the Grove of the Burnwillows tech? It was mentioned a while ago in this thread when a player top 8d with 4 groves and 4 fires. Has there been any testing? Would it even be something you would want in the current meta?

This deck has been popping up in Magic-League trials recently with some consistency, so that's kind of exciting. The deck list, with shockingly little variation, is this:

Creatures [19]
1 Goblin Welder
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Kargan Dragonlord
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Spellskite
2 Magus of the Moon
4 Imperial Recruiter
4 Painter's Servant
4 Simian Spirit Guide

Instants [10]
3 Pyroblast
3 Red Elemental Blast
4 Lightning Bolt

Enchantments [4]
4 Blood Moon

Artifacts [9]
2 Chrome Mox
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Grindstone

Lands [18]
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Ancient Tomb
4 City of Traitors
8 Mountain

Sideboard [15]
1 Pyroblast
1 Red Elemental Blast
4 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Manic Vandal
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thorn of Amethyst
2 Vexing Shusher

A couple things I notice about this list in particular are:
(1) The relatively large Recruiter toolbox. I've seen a fair number of other lists that only play 2 or 3 one-ofs to search for with the recruiter, and I have to wonder if this is going to lead to some consistency issues. I've always been skeptical of Kargan Dragonlord in particular.
(2) 6 Moons maindeck. I think that Moons are getting better and better recently with the rise of BUG decks (which play generally atrocious mana bases).

I'm also puzzled by the people who play Goblin Welder but no Great Furnaces. It seems like Furnace should be the best artifact to weld away since you can put it onto the battlefield in a way which is completely un-counterable and gives no opportunities for the opponent to respond (I'm looking at you, Counterbalance). I understand that it makes you more susceptible to Wasteland, but I have to wonder how bad this trade-off really is.

I'm also relatively new to this deck, so I have one more question: Is there any consensus on the situations in which Faithless Looting is the better filter spell to play and in which Sensei's Divining Top is better?

First off I want to thank someone else for responding. Regarding the varied recruiter targets, it gives you more non grindstone combo options game 1. Chalice at 1, sneak show beat down, completely random shit. Against the current decks to beat (pretty much lacking stp) I prefer welder to bring back anything destroyed or countered. If you play welder, I feel that great furnace is a necessity. I've been raped by wasteland for it, but won far more games having it as an artifact to weld back. For faithless, I like it as a situational filterer. Just discard extra copies of whatever you have in play.

My main advice is keep playing and practicing. You learn when to play looting and what to discard to it. We always need more IP pilots

Any deck that plays Kargan Dragonlord is a deck that I can get behind.

Anyone, who have tried gitaxian probe instead of lightning bolts?
In this fairly non-emmy/proggy meta, I am going to try this, both for the extra card from the probe, but also information from the opponents hand, to combo earlier? :)

I actually tried probes one time in mono-red a few months ago. You definitely do not want them. I could see blue-red painter using them since they are faster and more combo oriented and want to know if they can go all in on LED.

Also, ancient tomb adds up. Probe makes opening hand strategies much harder. And bolt is such a crucial card destroying deathrite before they can decay your blood moon.


Speaking of deathrite, I'm re-adding phyrexian revoker to the main over 1 magus and moving the 2nd to the board over the 7th blast. Revoker is another member in the welder frat house plus I'm tired of going in on magus game 1 early and having it bolted, fire/iced, fork bolted, burning wish into pyroclasm etc.

I think that this is currently the best Blood Moon deck, and that's an excellent reason to be playing it right now. I'm with you in trying Phyrexian Revoker in the main again as an end to making your Moons a harder lock. Therefore, I think that it doesn't quite make sense to cut Moon effects as a way to get Revoker into the main. If I were you, I'd do what I could to stay at 6 Moons in the main while also preserving at least 6 Blasts. Personally, I'll toy with shifting either Phyrexian Metamorph or a Faithless Looting.

I'm not adding revoker because I'm worried about deathrite, although it certainly helps. I'm adding it because of all the crazy shit that can go down game 1 against non-bug decks. I want serious game against all decks at all times and revoker accomplishes that goal better. For decks where you want the 6th moon it can still come in games 2 and 3

Personally, i would never cut to 6 moon effects...
I've always played 7 in the main...

3x Great Furnace
2x Arid Mesa
4x City of Traitors
4x Ancient Tomb
5x Mountains

3x Chrome Mox
4x Painter's Servant
4x Grindstone
3x Sensei's Divining Top
1x Phyrexian Revoker
4x Imperial Recruiter
4x Blood Moon
3x Magus of the Moon
4x Simian Spirit Guide
3x Pyroblast
3x Red Elemental Blast
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1x Goblin Welder

SB
3x Faerie Macabre
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
4x Thorn of Amethyst
1x Pyroblast
2x Koth of the Hammer
4x Leyline of the Void

While BUG is on the rise, i still see a lot of Maverick and RUG Delver, so i'd never cut the 3rd Magus... As always in the meta, there's a lot of spotremoval, and while A-Decay is a bad ass against our beloved deck, i really wanna test G-Probe against those beforementioned decks... Seing if they have that FoW in their opening hand or not, can be game, for either of the players..

Most of the players i play against, play suck greedy manabases, that i'm considering playing the 4th Magus... Whether in the main or on the side, i don't know yet, but, getting that moon effect, turn 1...... i love it :D

Is there anyone, playing iPainter, who's going to GP Denver? If so, a tournament rapport after the gp, would be much obliged ;)

Judge foil recruiter exists

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kap'n Cook

Judge foil recruiter exists

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I know, are you going to move your recruiters and focus on Breakfast now? I don't think the price on recruiters will drop that much.

Also why don't your run Trinisphere in your sideboard instead of leyline. Its seems like a strict upgrade over Leyline. 3Sphere breaks storms back and slows down burn which is the two major match-ups you use Leyline in. Am I wrong?

Judge foil Imperial Recruiters are extremely exciting to me. Hoorah and all that.

Anyway, I'm surprised you're focusing so much on Trinisphere and Leyline and forgetting altogether about Thorn of Amethyst. The benefit there is that you can cast it much more reliably on turn 1, which we definitely cannot say about Trinisphere. I've also never really liked the mulligan to Leyline plan, personally, so my vote is definitely for Thorn.

It's been a while, but I've been playing again recently. And wow, a Recruiter reprint! I like this move - a few more Recruiters in circulation is a good thing.

In the last two local tournaments, I've had good results with this list:

Land - 22
4 Tomb
3 City
3 Fetch
12 Mountain

Creatures - 17
4 SSG
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Revoker
1 Magus
1 Jaya
1 Welder

Servant Cards - 10
6 Blast
4 Grindstone

Utility and Moon -11
4 Moon
4 Top
3 Magma Jet

SB - 15
4 Thorn
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Jaya
1 Blast

I've always liked IP as the best Moon deck. It straight up hates on two entire pillars of the general Lecay meta: nonbasic lands and the color blue. And over the years I feel like the deck remained competitive even as the meta made temporary shifts away from Moon and Blast vulnerability because you can still sub in Burn and Welder cards if needed.

After Eldrazi were released, I eventually decided a Bridge-based strategy out of the sideboard was necessary, and I think that led me replace aggro options like Dragonlord because of the bad interaction. Against Eldrazi decks, I almost always abandon Grindstone completely, replacing all four with Bridges.

Right now Moons seem better than they've been in while, and BUG's presence makes more Magus enticing but I would never want more Magus against RUG. I have liked a "default setting" of 4 Moons and 1 Magus for recruiting in the past and I agree with the pro-Revoker posts for sure.

I play a lot of lands with more card filtering than most builds because I have found it to be more stable over time. After the last five or six tournaments, I like the list above but want to fit a Metamorph back into the 75. I'm considering cutting the 2 Crypts for a Metamorph and either a Heap Doll or a second Macabre. My thanks to Deathrite Shaman for reducing the need for graveyard hate.

If anyone is playing IP at the GP, good luck.

22 lands does seem quite high. Is the lack of chrome mox so you can run ratchet bomb in the board for tokens?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DrewliusMaximus

It's been a while, but I've been playing again recently. And wow, a Recruiter reprint! I like this move - a few more Recruiters in circulation is a good thing.

In the last two local tournaments, I've had good results with this list:

Land - 22
4 Tomb
3 City
3 Fetch
12 Mountain

Creatures - 17
4 SSG
4 Recruiter
4 Servant
2 Revoker
1 Magus
1 Jaya
1 Welder

Servant Cards - 10
6 Blast
4 Grindstone

Utility and Moon -11
4 Moon
4 Top
3 Magma Jet

SB - 15
4 Thorn
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Crypt
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Jaya
1 Blast

I've always liked IP as the best Moon deck. It straight up hates on two entire pillars of the general Lecay meta: nonbasic lands and the color blue. And over the years I feel like the deck remained competitive even as the meta made temporary shifts away from Moon and Blast vulnerability because you can still sub in Burn and Welder cards if needed.

After Eldrazi were released, I eventually decided a Bridge-based strategy out of the sideboard was necessary, and I think that led me replace aggro options like Dragonlord because of the bad interaction. Against Eldrazi decks, I almost always abandon Grindstone completely, replacing all four with Bridges.

Right now Moons seem better than they've been in while, and BUG's presence makes more Magus enticing but I would never want more Magus against RUG. I have liked a "default setting" of 4 Moons and 1 Magus for recruiting in the past and I agree with the pro-Revoker posts for sure.

I play a lot of lands with more card filtering than most builds because I have found it to be more stable over time. After the last five or six tournaments, I like the list above but want to fit a Metamorph back into the 75. I'm considering cutting the 2 Crypts for a Metamorph and either a Heap Doll or a second Macabre. My thanks to Deathrite Shaman for reducing the need for graveyard hate.

If anyone is playing IP at the GP, good luck.

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Your deck looks good. A couple of questions. Why no Great Furnace for Welding? A pair in place of Mountains doesn't seem like it should make you that much more vulnerable to Wasteland. However, I am a big believer in playing more lands. There is real value in not auto-losing to Wasteland so I can see the value in playing more basics. I really like Magma Jet. That card is awesome. How has it performed for you? How do you win postboard against the decks where you take out Grindstone? Dork beatdown? Am I missing something?

Quote:

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Is the lack of chrome mox so you can run ratchet bomb in the board for tokens?

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I would use Mox in an all-out Stompy deck that needs at least two mana to play anything. But I think Imperial Painter can function perfectly well starting with one mana, and then usually ramping to three. Mox is card-disadvantage, puts constraints on the number of artifacts you should play, and is one of those cards that can occasionally cost you a game/match. I just don't think the risk is worth the reward if I am not going all-in on a first-turn Moon effect, and I'm not really doing that.

Quote:

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Your deck looks good. A couple of questions. Why no Great Furnace for Welding? A pair in place of Mountains doesn't seem like it should make you that much more vulnerable to Wasteland. However, I am a big believer in playing more lands. There is real value in not auto-losing to Wasteland so I can see the value in playing more basics. I really like Magma Jet. That card is awesome. How has it performed for you? How do you win postboard against the decks where you take out Grindstone? Dork beatdown? Am I missing something?

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Thanks. The Furnace question is fair and it might be worth it, but the singleton Welder is really just a backup option right now. So I don't feel too compelled to support the welding beyond what comes naturally from at least 14+ artifacts and the potential to Grind your own deck. Nonetheless, I don't know whether it would help or hurt more often.

I like playing more lands with at least a full set of Tops to counteract exactly what you mention - "auto-losing". After playing Faerie Stompy, Dragon Stompy and Stax, the appeal of the Imperial Painter strategy to me was that it lets you play 1cc spells but still gives you acceleration (and the potential first turn Moon). A major consequence of this is that you can play Top and completely take control of your draws, not to mention that Sol lands let you play and use Top on turn one. I know Imperial Painter can be played several different ways competitively, but I guess I just really hate losing to my own deck, so I'll sacrifice some explosiveness and opt for more deck manipulation than others might to reduce self-destruction.

Magma Jet does what it needs to, although I wish it did three damage. The scrying fits with the "many lands + card filtering" strategy so I play it over Bolt right now (although there have been times, like when Zoo was the dominant deck, when you had to do three damage).

For the Eldrazi matchups, I bring in the second Jaya along with the Bridges. So you can slow burn for the win along with the dork beatdown plan, which isn't a swift kill but it works under a fairly stable lock.

Awesome. Thanks for responding. I've won enough times beating down with random dorks but I didn't know how feasible it was here. Maybe I'll pick this deck up since Recruiter is getting reprinted.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Amon Amarth

Awesome. Thanks for responding. I've won enough times beating down with random dorks but I didn't know how feasible it was here. Maybe I'll pick this deck up since Recruiter is getting reprinted.

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Well, being the only one - at this point - playing the deck, or being able to play the deck in our local meta, I hope that the reprinting of iRecruiter, will open up for more players, making a scene with the deck, the mirror match is AWESOME! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phoenix4

Well, being the only one - at this point - playing the deck, or being able to play the deck in our local meta, I hope that the reprinting of iRecruiter, will open up for more players, making a scene with the deck, the mirror match is AWESOME! :D

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Haha the mirror match is one the craziest games of magic you can have.

I played in a small tourney (only 16 people) and split the finals over the weekend. I beat 4c zombies, zoo, miracle control, and bug. I definitely liked the 2nd magus side.

@Drew

good to see you back playing IP. Have you tried playing lootings at all? I understand your reasoning behind playing 22 lands but even for me playing 18 lands 2 moxes I sometimes hit little pockets of lands and Sensei top only allows you to see one new card a turn. Plus looting opens up one of my favorite plays of grindstoning yourself to flashback a looting. Lastly, sometimes you just need to ditch cards for ensnaring bridge.

edit: forgot you played magma jet as I was posting. Pretty much the same type of thing as looting away two lands

When I was playing with a more committed Welder strategy, I loved Looting, and it always deserves consideration. I keep coming back to Magma Jet for card filtering because the burn is so useful too, but I'm also consciously abandoning most of the graveyard tricks because of Deathrite Shaman.

Also, if you play the mirror, remember to board out a couple of Servants.