[Deck] T.E.S - The EPIC Storm

Played TES last night to an epic 1-2 finish. Only reason I'm posting is because I had a fun night :) Been a while since I played this.

13 Land
2 Scalding Tarn
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Polluted Delta
4 Gemstone Mine
2 City of Brass
2 Underground Sea
1 Volcanic Island

47 Spells
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Dark Ritual
4 Rite of Flame
4 Infernal Tutor
4 Burning Wish
4 Brainstorm
4 Ponder
4 Duress
3 Orim's Chant
1 Silence
1 Ad Nauseam
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens

15 Sideboard
3 Xantid Swarm
2 Pyroblast
2 Echoing Truth
1 Wipe Away
1 Thoughtseize
1 Shattering Spree
1 Ill-Gotten Gains
1 Diminishing Returns
1 Tendrils of Agony
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Grapeshot

OK, so only 6 people showed up which is pretty awful. The tournament wasn't sanctioned. I showed up with two of my buds (for those paying attention that's 3 people so we were half of the tournament) they played Merfolk and Affinity. The other decks were 4c Countertop, 4c Countertop and LEDless Dredge.

Before hand we hit up a nearby Taco Bell. There was a guy in front of us who was asked to put his last name on a receipt for a return order and would only say "Paparazzi." It was hilarious. Anyway the food. Taco. Yes. Taco. NOM.

Round 1 - Matt with 4c Countertop
G1.) I cast Duress, ripping Counterbalance from his hand. I cast chant. He sacrifices 3 fetches to dig for an answer with top. He doesn't find one. I win with Ad Nauseam.
Sideboard:
+2 Pyroblast
+1 Wipeaway
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Brainstorm
-1 Ponder
G2.) I Brainstorm into garbage and get beat in the face with Tarmogoyf.
G3.) I have a turn 3 protected kill with chant. When I cast chant, he responds with Vendillion Clique. He nabs my only business spell Infernal Tutor. I don't see another business spell and dieeee.
0-1
1-2

Round 2 - Bobby with Mono Blue Merfolk
G1.) I get two of my lands wasted. I chant. He forces it. I had Duressed a couple turns ago, which means he recently drew the force so his hand had only one more possible answer. I go petal, LED, LED, Infernal Tutor. He lets it resolve. I think for a bit and grab Empty the Warrens because I know he doesn't play Stifle or Echoing Truth main. He can't race 17 goblins.
Sideboard:
+3 Xantid Swarm
+2 Pyroblast
-1 Chrome Mox
-1 Ponder
-1 Brainstorm
-1 Silence
-1 Empty the Warrens (he runs 3 Echoing Truth sb)
G2.) I get wasted out of the game.
G3.) He forces my turn 1 Xantid Swarm, wastes my two lands and casts Echoing Truth on my moxen.
2-4
0-2

Round 3 - Ryan with Affinity
G1.) Empty the Warrens gets there with 14 gobbos.
Sideboard:
+2 Pyroblast
-1 Ponder
-1 Silence
G2.) I Duress away his Mindbreak Trap. I Duress the turn before I go off. He ripped his only other (he runs 2) Mindbreak Trap off the top.
G3.) I Duress away his Mindbreak Trap. I wish for Shattering Spree and blow up his Ethersworn Canonist. I win with 14 gobbos.
4-5
1-2

Props:
Getting 1 booster pack and 2 FNM Wild Nacatl
My friend for taking first with Merfolk
Orim's Chant
Taco Bell
Killing with Gobbos! :)

Slops:
Playing against my friends
Wasteland
Topdecked Mind Break Trap
Vendillion Clique, this card seriously ninja steals games
6 people showing up - really??

So time spiral is unbanned. Possible wishboard target? In place of diminishing returns perhaps? As a bonus, you don't have to exile the top 10 cards of your library which can be good or bad depending on what the ten cards were/are. If you have 3 lands it at least costs less than diminishing returns and can add some blue mana after you draw the 7 cards.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

So time spiral is unbanned. Possible wishboard target? In place of diminishing returns perhaps? As a bonus, you don't have to exile the top 10 cards of your library which can be good or bad depending on what the ten cards were/are. If you have 3 lands it at least costs less than diminishing returns and can add some blue mana after you draw the 7 cards.

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I was thinking the same thing, but would the cost be a restricting factor. Yes I know its "free" but still to have 8 mana (Wish + Spiral) is a lot. Maybe I am wrong though. I feel it simply needs to be tested to find out. I just think that now the meta is off of survival, it will shift back towards New Horizons and Countertop, which are trouble for TES.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

So time spiral is unbanned. Possible wishboard target? In place of diminishing returns perhaps? As a bonus, you don't have to exile the top 10 cards of your library which can be good or bad depending on what the ten cards were/are. If you have 3 lands it at least costs less than diminishing returns and can add some blue mana after you draw the 7 cards.

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I'm not set on this card making any impact once it becomes legal. It just seems like too much of a situational wish target, yes if you happen to have enough mana to actually resolve this thing it should be game over (through countermagic and whatnot), but how often will that happen?

Countermagic would probably target the burning wish if it can. That's the reason we run protection. Like chant them, go off etc. etc. Although you without a doubt need a boatload of rituals or 2 LEDs to cast time spiral. Diminishing returns was never exactly stellar either. It's just a possible replacement. That will require testing of course.

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Originally Posted by Dark Ritual

Countermagic would probably target the burning wish if it can. That's the reason we run protection. Like chant them, go off etc. etc. Although you without a doubt need a boatload of rituals or 2 LEDs to cast time spiral. Diminishing returns was never exactly stellar either. It's just a possible replacement. That will require testing of course.

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That's fair. The 2 LED requirement is something that I thought of as well and that's... interesting. I do agree that DR truly lives up to its name, and that's why we have the card, but a couple of initial thoughts on Time Spiral's interaction with TES, and maybe some things to test for:

- We only play so many usable lands to begin with. What is the acceptable amount of lands that we untap with TS to make it worth it? If that number is higher than 3, then DR with 2 mana open is probably going to be superior.

- DR exiles 10 cards off the top, however, due to the random nature of the cards, this part of the card shouldn't impact us too much. Sometimes you remove all 4 Burning Wishes and flip garbage, sometimes you draw the nuts. How much do we really lose if both cards are designed to Draw 7? Of course this will tell us if we even care for the additional risk/reward of paying 2 mana extra for... (see point #1).


Off the top of my head, I feel like a much more aggressive deck that aims to Time Spiral first (aka, not use it as a wish target but more integrated into the MD) could be created. I guess we'll just have to see.

I won another tournament in LA with TES.


Also, Time Spiral costs 6 mana. If we wanted a 6 mana spell to draw cards, I'm pretty sure we would play recurring insight. Also, if the 10 cards were an issue we would've been playing Time Reversal a long time ago.

Look at it this way, if you can get 8 mana, with DR you will have 2 mana floating, so for TS to eb better you got to have at least 3 lands in play.

So TS is harder to cast and you need to have 3+ lands into play for it to be better than what we use right now. I will test the card, but I dont believe it will outclass DR

hi all, long time reader, first time poster.

Is TES still viable with the new (old) meta coming with the ban of SoTF??

We can exept lot of CB.deck and merfolk, two of pretty bad MU for TES....

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Originally Posted by kilukru

Look at it this way, if you can get 8 mana, with DR you will have 2 mana floating, so for TS to eb better you got to have at least 3 lands in play.

So TS is harder to cast and you need to have 3+ lands into play for it to be better than what we use right now. I will test the card, but I dont believe it will outclass DR

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I certainly agree here. It will probably suck in the 5-colour lists, so I'm going to try it out in UBR-TES at first. I don't expect it to be good though.
The reason we have Diminishing Returns is not that we need another storm engine but, similar to the reason we run Empty The Warrens, to have something when we would otherwise just lose. You want to pay the fewest possible amount of mana for it, so that you have the highest possible benefit. Having to pay eight mana for it doesn't exactly increase your chances of being able to cast it at all. By the way, your chances of drawing good stuff off of Diminishing Returns are actually higher than your chances of drawing good stuff off of Time Spiral.

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Originally Posted by Jona

By the way, your chances of drawing good stuff off of Diminishing Returns are actually higher than your chances of drawing good stuff off of Time Spiral.

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Umm.... what?

I regularly BW for DReturns after a mull or 2 so I can cast it on turns 3-4 and try to make something happen when I am short on mana. Time Spiral seems like a win even more card. The fact that you don't mill 10 and untap whatever lands u have in play does intrigue me though. I hate DReturns but I still run it; the reason is the casting cost. While I really like Time Spiral,I don't think it would be any kind of replacement. That being said though, I am going to try and AdNless version of TES with moar Time Spirals. It seems terrible in theory (and in practice it will be the same way most likely) but it could be very interesting. I really just want to play something with Time Spiral honestly.

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Originally Posted by Pulp_Fiction

I really just want to play something with Time Spiral honestly.

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High Tide

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Originally Posted by lorddotm

Umm.... what?

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This is because it's more likely that there's bad stuff (usually lands) in the ten cards you exile than useful cards. Therefore you have a higher chance of hitting good stuff in the seven you draw. With Time Spiral you have a higher chance of drawing into shit because you don't exile it. I don't have actual numbers to back this up, but it's definitely true.

Edit: This might not be significant, but it's a factor nonetheless.

Your math is wrong. It's more likely for any card to be in the top 10 (to get exiled) than in 11-17 (to be drawn) because there are more cards you exile than you draw.

Sure, but because there's also more shit than business in your deck overall, you're more likely to exile the shit. Thus you're more likely to draw into good stuff in cards 11-17. But like I said, these are probably only small percentages.

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Sure, but because there's also more shit than business in your deck overall, you're more likely to exile the shit. Thus you're more likely to draw into good stuff in cards 11-17. But like I said, these are probably only small percentages.

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Wow, this is wrong on so many levels, it just made my day :D

If the top ten cards contain a certain percentage of cards you don't wish to draw, then statistically the top 7 (or cards 11-17) contain the excact same percentage of those undesired cards.

It doesn't matter, which card you resolve, unless you remove all relevant cards with Diminishing Returns (unlikely but possible). So, for that matter, Time Spiral is a little bit better.

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Originally Posted by fallenphoenix

If the top ten cards contain a certain percentage of cards you don't wish to draw, then statistically the top 7 (or cards 11-17) contain the excact same percentage of those undesired cards.

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Sorry, but no. Each single card you see has the same percentage to be any of your cards. This is a difference. This is basically the same.

Nope, it's not.
The Monty-Hall-Paradox is based on the fact, that the host knows what's behind the doors and will never open a door with a price.
You don't know what's on top of your deck (and will never know in this case b/c both Time Spiral and D. Returns let you shuffle), and there is no magical helper who peeks the top cards for you, so this example does not apply.

The problem is fundamentally different, which you seem to neglect.

I wont be convinced until someone pull a Matlab sheet to prove his point!!

But seriously, the most significant effect that removing 10 cards can do is if you remove your Tendril, since you are already -1 BW that you used to get DR, hitting your tendril with DR can make winning a lot more difficult, thus the draw from TS is better, but im still conviced that the card as a whole is still worst because of it's cost.