[Deck] Dragon Stompy

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

The Batterskull argument is bunk also

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I don't see how. They play Betterskull and you have to keep SBD back to block or you lose, and even if you monstrous him, you still have to keep him back to block or you lose. And all this time they are building up a stronger board than you are, because that's what happens when DS stalls.

If we play either SBD or MC turn 2 and it sticks, then they go turn 2 Stoneforge:

SBD:
They get Batterskull and sneak it in next turn. You've hit them for 8. Now, without mana to go Monstrous, you cannot attack profitably anymore. Your only option is to trade your dragon for their token, which doesn't sound good. You're also super behind in resources because you had to spend cards to accelerate SBD out, while your opponent got a free card from Stoneforge.

MC:
They get Jitte and sneak it in next turn. You find Tuktuk Scrapper and destroy it. Then you get SGC and you're so far ahead both in resources and on the board that you probably won the game.


Again, I stress, please test out Moggcatcher before coming to hasty conclusions about how good or bad he may be. He's not flashy, but he brings a lot of power with him.

I find that Koth works just as well as Seething Song when it comes to casting Stormbreath Dragon. Flamespeaker has been putting in quite a bit of work. :wink:

Let's not forget that this is a meta-dependent deck. One threat may work better than the other depending on your local meta.

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Originally Posted by Zupponn

I don't see how. They play Betterskull and you have to keep SBD back to block or you lose, and even if you monstrous him, you still have to keep him back to block or you lose. And all this time they are building up a stronger board than you are, because that's what happens when DS stalls.

If we play either SBD or MC turn 2 and it sticks, then they go turn 2 Stoneforge:

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I don't see how you are going to win either way if you let them resolve and use SFM unimpeded regardless. It's one of the reasons it's very tough to get 7-8 wins with Dragonstompy in a 9-10 round tourney. But a 2/2 for 4 without haste or any ability to do anything but die to literally every removal spell south of abrupt decay (bolt, stp, punishing fire, grim lavamancer, dis-fucking figure). You failed at "and it sticks" ... it has to stick and survive until your next untap. I think it's garbage, I'd play Koth a 1,000 times over before I played it and SBD 1,000 times before I played it. If you enjoy it, enjoy it I think it's awful. I'd rather play to win fast than dick around with a grey ogre. Even a pile of shit like Rakka Mar can maybe attack for 2. Beetleback chief leaves 2 turds behind when he gets bolted.

Man, if you are so convinced of your arguments then stop posting. We tried to explain in details why we like moggcatcher while you just keep saying he is a piece of shit because he dies to removals. So, just don't play him and end this discussion.

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Originally Posted by TheCrowsEye

I find that Koth works just as well as Seething Song when it comes to casting Stormbreath Dragon.

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I approve this. I'm so used to bash with 4/4 mountains or get emblems that i almost forgot that koth also ramps. Running koth together with dragon seems really interesting.

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Originally Posted by nedleeds

I don't see how you are going to win either way if you let them resolve and use SFM unimpeded regardless. It's one of the reasons it's very tough to get 7-8 wins with Dragonstompy in a 9-10 round tourney. But a 2/2 for 4 without haste or any ability to do anything but die to literally every removal spell south of abrupt decay (bolt, stp, punishing fire, grim lavamancer, dis-fucking figure). You failed at "and it sticks" ... it has to stick and survive until your next untap. I think it's garbage, I'd play Koth a 1,000 times over before I played it and SBD 1,000 times before I played it. If you enjoy it, enjoy it I think it's awful. I'd rather play to win fast than dick around with a grey ogre. Even a pile of shit like Rakka Mar can maybe attack for 2. Beetleback chief leaves 2 turds behind when he gets bolted.

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The thing I hated with Dragon Stompy was that if you were behind on the board you you would almost never recover once you are in topdeck mode. Rakdos Pit Dragon didn't succeed in this in the past and Stormbreath Dragon doesn't do that now. Once you are in a hole a Stormbreath Dragon that is unanswered for a few turns will not dig you out of it. You will not hold off 2 4/5 Tarmogoyfs with a Stormbreath Dragon. A Moggcatcher will dig you out of that hole if unanswered for a few turns.... Siege Gang Commander + Kiki Jiki can and will block a lot of Tarmogoyfs and shoot flipped Delvers out of the air all day long. And also will neuter a Batterskull (but there are several goblins that blow up artifacts anyway.

But if Stormbreath Dragon does all that for you, then good for you. But simply dismissing other peoples well argumented choices by saying they are bad.... Meh...

Hi, everyone! I am learning to play Dragon Stompy. this deck is really ridiculous.

But I find myself really have problems with chrome mox. many lists run a full set of chrome moxes. I know it could be great if we have mox in our opening hand, but I really hate to draw it once we're in topdeck mode, aka mid & late game. not to mention the opening hand of multiple mox is really bad. the card disadvantage is terrible. because we can't imprint mox on redundant chalice/trinisphere, I find myself often need to struggle to imprint mox on precious creatures in early game, which often leads to me mana flooded late game and having to wait long time to topdeck another threat.

Is it ok to replace those moxes with lotus petals? And if so, perhaps I should slightly increase my lands to avoid possible mana screw in early game?

Thanks in advance!

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Originally Posted by LeoCop 90

Man, if you are so convinced of your arguments then stop posting. We tried to explain in details why we like moggcatcher while you just keep saying he is a piece of shit because he dies to removals. So, just don't play him and end this discussion.



I approve this. I'm so used to bash with 4/4 mountains or get emblems that i almost forgot that koth also ramps. Running koth together with dragon seems really interesting.

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If you are so convinced I'm wrong stop replying (see this can go on forever?). I ended most of my posts with if you like him, play him (or If you enjoy it, enjoy it I think it's awful) but I think he's awful and I gave multiple reasons (die to everything ost importantly bolt and punishing fire, does nothing upon entering battlefield, can be revoked/amced, needs a full turn, doesn't evade). Some people kept replying and white knighting him. You've got people debating Soldier of Fortune in here for gods sake.

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Originally Posted by entreri_fans

Hi, everyone! I am learning to play Dragon Stompy. this deck is really ridiculous.

But I find myself really have problems with chrome mox. many lists run a full set of chrome moxes. I know it could be great if we have mox in our opening hand, but I really hate to draw it once we're in topdeck mode, aka mid & late game. not to mention the opening hand of multiple mox is really bad. the card disadvantage is terrible. because we can't imprint mox on redundant chalice/trinisphere, I find myself often need to struggle to imprint mox on precious creatures in early game, which often leads to me mana flooded late game and having to wait long time to topdeck another threat.

Is it ok to replace those moxes with lotus petals? And if so, perhaps I should slightly increase my lands to avoid possible mana screw in early game?

Thanks in advance!

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Test it and find out! You can also run Prophetic Flamespeaker if you've got some equipment.

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Originally Posted by entreri_fans

Hi, everyone! I am learning to play Dragon Stompy. this deck is really ridiculous.

But I find myself really have problems with chrome mox. many lists run a full set of chrome moxes. I know it could be great if we have mox in our opening hand, but I really hate to draw it once we're in topdeck mode, aka mid & late game. not to mention the opening hand of multiple mox is really bad. the card disadvantage is terrible. because we can't imprint mox on redundant chalice/trinisphere, I find myself often need to struggle to imprint mox on precious creatures in early game, which often leads to me mana flooded late game and having to wait long time to topdeck another threat.

Is it ok to replace those moxes with lotus petals? And if so, perhaps I should slightly increase my lands to avoid possible mana screw in early game?

Thanks in advance!

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Unfortunately we need the permanent mana. It's a very big issue. I've tried lists with Petals and they just don't work. Many of your hands are just as bad if not worse because you cant' make any plays as the game goes on.

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Originally Posted by entreri_fans

Hi, everyone! I am learning to play Dragon Stompy. this deck is really ridiculous.

But I find myself really have problems with chrome mox. many lists run a full set of chrome moxes. I know it could be great if we have mox in our opening hand, but I really hate to draw it once we're in topdeck mode, aka mid & late game. not to mention the opening hand of multiple mox is really bad. the card disadvantage is terrible. because we can't imprint mox on redundant chalice/trinisphere, I find myself often need to struggle to imprint mox on precious creatures in early game, which often leads to me mana flooded late game and having to wait long time to topdeck another threat.

Is it ok to replace those moxes with lotus petals? And if so, perhaps I should slightly increase my lands to avoid possible mana screw in early game?

Thanks in advance!

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Test it out and see how you like it. It's never a bad thing to see how different cards play in a deck.

@The Crow's Eye, @Zirath, @Zupponn

wow, thanks guys! yep, I am going to test it myself, and if works not well, I will be switching back to mox.

yeah, I also think prophetic flamespeaker is sweet in this deck. his draw ability is great, as we often run out of cards quickly:frown: I suppose his 1RR mana cost is not hard to reach as we have 8 moon effects in our deck:tongue:

if we need a draw engine, what about Chandra, Pyromaster? I know her ult maybe useless in our deck:frown:, but her second ability seems powerful:tongue:

thanks for any suggestions

Chandra hasn't done anything much for me here. Koth, at least, gives me two sources of mana plus a 4/4. Chandra could just as easily turn up a useless card.

Why are people still talking about Stormbreath Dragon? The card is complete trash. Please just stop. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by Blastoderm

Why are people still talking about Stormbreath Dragon? The card is complete trash. Please just stop. Thanks.

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What is this statement based on? It sort of seems like a knee-jerk reaction to nedleeds dissing Moggcatcher...

At last night's weekly, I ran:
3 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Seething Song
3 Instigator Gang
2 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
3 Koth of the Hammer
in addition to the core of mana and locks.

3 Phyrexian Revoker and 4 Stone Rain were moved to the board.

SBD is far from 'complete trash' but is certainly not the answer this deck needs to destroy the meta. Over the course of the night SBD died to double Lightning Bolt, was bounced by JtMS, or just outright countered. It also beat for 4 (or 7 with a flipped Instigator Gang... Never got to make it Monstrous though) and won a game or two. Really Koth was the all star of my 3-1 evening in a 17 player weekly. I got knocked out of top 8 by 12-Post of all things. :cry: (mull to 4 in game 2. S+T won him games 2 and 3... *sigh*).

Last week I ran Werewolves for the first time (3 Instigator Gang and 4 Hanweir Watchkeep) after calling them 'complete trash' since they were released. They are no better or worse beaters than Rakdos Pit Dragon or Gathan Raiders as finishers. They all have their problems and they all do surprising amounts of damage out of nowhere. BUT the werewolves don't make you feel bad for keeping the extra 3sphere or Blood Moon in your hand.


I have not tried the Moggcatcher build since I tried it a few months ago and got destroyed. My misfortune had nothing to do with the build though. I never played a catcher and might have rage-quit after losing 2 and getting a bye... I forget. It is on my list of things to test in my quest to find an optimal build for this pile I can't help but love.

I am also interested in testing a build with Prophetic Flamespeaker and Chandra, Pyromaster at some point.

What else... Oh yeah! Nothing is more frustrating than having your game winning beater countered the same turn you dropped a Cavern of Souls that is only a Mountain under your own Blood Moon... :rolleyes:

I'm surprised that so many people are arguing Moggcatcher? Here are my thoughts on the matter:

Sure, he allows for a toolbox sort of deck as well as quickly end the game, but he's extremely easy to remove. He also requires constant mana investment that doesn't win the game, just works towards winning the game. I would prefer someone a bit more versatile personally. Otherwise you run cards that aren't optimal but are toolboxy and are horrible draws against certain decks. Plus, you end up drawing the card that you would have put into play with moggcatcher and that would stink. He's just... too cute.

Just run cards that are great in most conditions. Then you don't have to worry about what you're drawing and not.

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Originally Posted by JPoJohnson

Just run cards that are great in most conditions.

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Why didn't I think of that! :tongue:
Any suggestions as to which cards?

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Originally Posted by Ace/Homebrew

Why didn't I think of that! :tongue:
Any suggestions as to which cards?

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3 Siege gang commander. Awesome when hardcast as well. No other moggcatcher targets maindeck.

No garbage toolbox cards like settler/kiki jiki.

Well , I think it is pointless running moggcatcher without a small toolbox. if you use him just to cast siege-gang , then you are better off running other threats .... or do you think siege-gang is more powerful than dragons/werevolves/other creatures ?

I think it is a matter of playstyle, afterall. What wins it for me is, as someone else pointed, Moggcatcher digs you out of holes. In my 60 I run 3 Koth's, 4 Hanweir, 2 Instigator's, 4 Moggcatchers and 2 SGC. This is a pretty versatile threat package, imo. I'm not running SBD because it is too expensive atm, but I would run it aswell.

Before testing, I wasn't too confident on Moggcatcher, but he seems to work, he digs you out of bad places pretty hard. Is it the surprise factor alone? Maybe. But I mean, if the opponent will keep the few removals he can cast to kill off Moggcatchers, you can take advantage of that.

And btw, no toolbox.

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Originally Posted by wooboy11

I think it is a matter of playstyle, afterall. What wins it for me is, as someone else pointed, Moggcatcher digs you out of holes. In my 60 I run 3 Koth's, 4 Hanweir, 2 Instigator's, 4 Moggcatchers and 2 SGC. This is a pretty versatile threat package, imo. I'm not running SBD because it is too expensive atm, but I would run it aswell.

Before testing, I wasn't too confident on Moggcatcher, but he seems to work, he digs you out of bad places pretty hard. Is it the surprise factor alone? Maybe. But I mean, if the opponent will keep the few removals he can cast to kill off Moggcatchers, you can take advantage of that.

And btw, no toolbox.

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This. Hardcasting Siege-gang gets you out of holes as well. Rakka Mar has performed extremely well for me with the same purpose. Another creature that says "remove me or lose".