Another problem with Razormane is that he costs 5 mana. This deck will not work as well with more than 4 five casting cost guys. Even if we could, there are better creatures to run than Razormane.
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Another problem with Razormane is that he costs 5 mana. This deck will not work as well with more than 4 five casting cost guys. Even if we could, there are better creatures to run than Razormane.
QFT + Explanation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zork
The reason the deck doesn't work with more than four 5-mana cost guys is that Blood Moon and Magus of the Moon shut off your own ability to consistently hit 5 mana. And there's nothing worse in Dragon Stompy than untapping with an empty hand, drawing a card, and not being able to get it out of your hand. It's why 5-drops are bad, it's why Pyrokinesis never completely keeps Pyroclasm out of decklists, and it's why we want more things that fit along the curve.
This is why anything besides Slogger, which is ridiculously powerful beyond compare of any other 5-drop, and Dragon, who is ridiculously powerful beyond compare of any other 4-drop, are the only cards in the deck period that can't get out of your hand for three mana or less.
Magus of the Moon is the best 3-drop we have. He can win games before an opponent gets a turn. He's essentially a 1-card combo that's effective only against certain decks and certain hands.
Gathan Raiders is the other best 3-drop we have. He exposes the beauty of Morph in the deck. 3-drops are perfect. And the fact that we can hardplay him if we have extra mana, or ditch cards that are stuck in our hand (Like excess Arc-Sloggers, second Jittes, excess Moons, etc) to speed up the assault make him the best
Simian Spirit Guide's a crappy 3-drop, but he's also a mana source, and he can get out of your hand for free at any time you want. Which makes him fantastic with Hellbent. You shouldn't replace him. He makes the deck more consistent and makes Raiders, Dragon, and Slogger all the better.
This leaves space enough for one more three-drop. What you really need here is somebody who goes the distance if you find yourself short of Raiders, Dragons, and Sloggers, but somebody who won't fuck up your hand if you've got them en masse in the first place.
Sulfur Elemental's the most utility, but if you need beatdown force, you aren't going to get enough of it from Sulfy.
Taurean Mauler's the best in an opening hand. Down early, he's as much of a force as the other guys. But he sucks if your first threats get taken down and you need to topdeck a game-ender around turn 6-7.
Akroma, Angel of Fury (See? I didn't say Wrath this time) was the other suggestion, as she gets out of your hand easily via morph, and can end a game similarly easily if she flips. You just can't flip her consistently enough to make her the best choice.
So, in essence, here are the points to consider from most of us who are experts in the deck. Read and review:
1. No, there isn't a better 5-drop than Arc-Slogger.
2. No, we can't fit another 5-drop in the deck unless it can get out of your hand and do something cool for :2::r: or less.
3. No, there isn't a better 4-drop than Rakdos Pit Dragon.
4. No, we can't fit another 4-drop in the deck unless it can get out of your hand and do something cool for :2::r: or less.
5. No, we can't ever fit anything with three red mana symbols in the deck.
6. No, we can't ever fit anything besides Arc-Slogger or Rakdos Pit Dragon with two red mana symbols in the deck.
7. Taurean Mauler is probably the best choice for the last slot. Sulfur Elemental is acceptable in certain metagames. Akroma is arguably playable still.
8. As far as I can see from reviewing the spoilers, Eventide blows for us. You can argue the merits of Noggle Hedge-Mage all you want. It's not a relevant set to Dragon Stompy.
I'm considering price of progress in SB. Since this deck runs 8 non basic, would it be a bad idea?
Does the deck not have enough non basic hate for you???Quote:
Originally Posted by Hana, The Deadly Flower
Taco, thanks for the post. I'm sure I'll be quoting it at people soon.
@Taco
You said a few sites ago, that 4 Kineis are absolute core of this Deck.Quote:
It's why 5-drops are bad, it's why Pyrokinesis never completely keeps Pyroclasm out of decklists, and it's why we want more things that fit along the curve.
but now you saying this...
Kinesis IS a terrible Topdeck, don't you think tht 2-3 are enough??
YawG
What should we put for sideboard?
I've been running (and having success with)
4 Shattering Spree
4 Pithing Needle
3 Pyrokenesis
3 Tormod's Crypt
1 Blood Moon
The SB of DS usually consists of these options:
1: Pithing Needle
- Don't ask, just do it. 5-6 is the correct number.
2: Trinisphere
- Moved here because is really good against storm, but is very meh otherwise.
2-3 seems to do the trick, depending how much storm you are expecting. They are "randomly good" in other mu's as well, but if you know there won't be storm, they are just waste of space.
3: 3rd Jitte/ Pyrokinesis/ Pyroclasm/ FTK / Powder Keg
- Depending on how much creature-based aggro can be expected. (read: random crap or Goblins/Ichorid) If the 3rd Jitte is not md, it probably should be here. You can do a f.e 3-2 split on the 'kinesises and 'clasms if you don't know which to play. Up the count if in aggro-heavy meta.
As a side not - I would try to avoid playing Sulfurs/FTKs and Pyroclasms in the same deck.
Powder Keg I haven't tested here myself. I've been so content with other options, that I only just now even remembered it. It is a little slow sometimes, and it is not red. I think these are the main-reasons why I haven't played it over 'Clasm and 'Kinesis.
4: Tormod's Crypt
- If gy-based strategies worry you. I usually run 3-4. You really want this card on your first turn, so it's a little pointless to run only 2 of them.
5: Shattering Spree / Ingot Chewer
- Unnecessary imo. If artifacts worry you, run Spree - it's better.
6: Serum Powder/Leyline of Lifeforce
- The "tech-department". If you feel ballsy, try them out. LoL is good if you play A LOT against counter-based decks. Powder allows you to mull to the broken hands. (read: blood moon)
7: Blood Moon
- This really should be in the maindeck.
So my recommended, not metagamed sb (3 jittes & 8 moon main) would be:
2 Trinisphere
4 Pithing Needle
4 Crypt
3 Pyrokinesis
2 Pyroclasm
Or at least this is what I'd bring in a big, competitive tournament.
I'm just curious to know. Had Juggernaut been tried at all.
The reason I ask is that I haven't been happy with Sulfur Elemental as a beater.
So I plan to try good old Juggernaut in it's place.
Juggernaut is ok, but it cost four and doesn't pitch to Mox.
Juggernaut is not red, so it does not pitch to Mox. Nor to Pyrokinesis.
It also runs head first towards the first Goyf he'll see, which can sometimes be saddening.
It also lacks any evasion of whatsoever.
If ye old Sulfie does not have the punch you are looking for, play Mauler. It gets big enough.
I'm pretty sure he has been tried, and the reason he was rejected was because he doesn't pitch to Mox/Pyrokinesis, costs four mana, and will often be forced to attack in a bad situation.
Mountain Yeti, Taurean Mauler, and even Sulfur Elemental are better than this guy.
I took Dragon Stompy to my local Legacy tournament yesterday and decided to try out Mountain Yeti. I got paired with Rg Goblins twice, winning one and losing one, GW aggro, which I beat, and Enchantress (ugh) which obviously kicked my butt sideways.
Rishadan Ports usually kept Yeti off the table vs. Goblins, but the one time I did resolve him, the Goblin player panicked and killed it instead of correctly removing my Arc-Slogger. Overall, in the games I played vs Goblins, Sulfur Elemental or Taurean Mauler would have probably been better, but I don't think running either of them would have won me any games that I lost.
Yeti won me a game vs GW aggro that neither Mauler or Sulfur would have won. The board was in a stalemate, but all of my opponents creatures were white, so Yeti was able to swing in unmolested for the win. I won the matchup 2-1.
It doesn't matter what you run in the last slot vs. Enchantress. You are going to lose that matchup, period.
Overall, here's how I see the pros and cons of the final slot.
Taurean Mauler is great if cast turn one, and not so great thereafter. Can grow to epic proportions vs. Thresh, and can do neat things to Goblins and Slivers. People also tend to remove him at a very high rate out of fear of what he might do, clearing the way for your true threats. Lousy late game topdeck.
Sulfur Elemental is probably best in more situations than the others, but he has never won me a game that Mauler, Akroma, or Yeti wouldn't have won me as well, and he usually isn't better by much. Great for surprise blocking, getting through a counter wall, and is randomly awesome against Cephalid Breakfast and a few other decks.
Akroma, Angel of Fury really only belongs in here if your metagame is mostly Landstill and Thresh. She's a complete house vs. Landstill and a Mox imprint or vanilla 2/2 pretty much everywhere else.
Mountain Yeti has two very useful abilities, and I've sung his praises in earlier posts, but he hurts the deck's curve and even though he can win you games, most of the time you probably want Mauler or Sulfur. In a white and red heavy metagame he can be a house.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
End of discussion.
:rolleyes:
The question isn't whether Taurean Mauler is good. He's pretty decent if played early. And I already run 4 of him.
The question is about the 2 Sulfur Elemental I play as I opt to play 2 Blood Moons only.
Yes I know, Moon is strong. But Moon isn't always useful against all the matchups I see. So I am satisfied with just 6 Moon effects in the maindeck and 2 more in the board to bring in as needed.
I am for now opting to play Juggernaut over Sulfur Elemental in those slots.
A 5/3 beater is far more intimidating than a 3/2 beater, well worth the one extra mana imo.
Honestly even Taurean Mauler isn't that impressive. Yes, Mauler's solid turn one. But the later into the game the worse he gets.
If you insist on that configuration, I'd recommend Akroma, Angel of "the red one".
You don't want to get to late game but if you do get there, she's good. You can also cast her easily, and she does have "explosiveness" you seem to be looking for.
She is also red.
I don't know why any of you guys actually like Akroma in this deck. I have been EXTREMELY unimpressed by the card.
Playing 8-9 mana to cast a creature is not my idea of either explosive or efficent. For that kind of mana, it should straight up win you the game the turn you cast it, not act as a 3 turn clock (4 if you account for summoning sickness). And a 3 mana vanilla 2/2 is also pretty worthless as a threat.
She is decent against control decks, I'll grant you that. But unless all you face is control, she's just not worth running.
IMO, 4 mana for a vanilla 5/3 beatstick (Juggernaut), atleast comes out as early as turn 2 and says either deal with me asap or die in 4 turns. Hell, early-mid game, he's big enough to trade with Goyf.
So in short, I would gladly opt to play Juggernaut before I ever play Akroma.
Akroma >> Jugeernaut for some reasonsQuote:
Originally Posted by Clark Kant
1. She's red, can be pitched for chrome mox or pyrokinesis
2. She's much bigger and skillful than Juggernaut in the final form. .
3. She makes top deck Seething Song isn't terrible. .
4. She usually mistaken as a morphed gathan riders, surpriseeee. .
Akroma isn't bad option since normal build of Dragon Stompy just run at most 2 (usually one) unless the meta is full with Landstill or MUC. .You don't need to care about how to reach 8-9 mana cause of her probability to show up is low. .But one piece of her make you gain hope to win the game you couldn't. .
I agree that 3 mana for 2/2 isn't explosive but you need to remember, against Landstill especially U/W one, you don't need to be explosive and Akroma will guide you to the way to win. .
Being able to pitch to chrome mox is not a good reason to run bad (ie. slow prohibitively high cc uncastable cards)
How often do you realistically expect to get to 8-9 mana playing this deck? I almost never find myself in that position.
Don't forget, once a moon effect resolves, your ancient tombs only produce 1 mana.
Also don't forget that early City's will have to be sacced by the late game.
Even after you play it, Akroma is actually a very slow clock as it has summoning sickness.
9 Mana?
Morph it? It has Morph you know.
That's the problem, 95% of games, all you will be able to do is morph it as a near worthless 2/2.
This deck has enough 2/2s (Simian Spirit Guide, Magus of the Moon, all with far far better abilities and utility). It needs actual threats that are more consistently threats, not threats that are only castable as anything threating in a very small minority of games and even in those that it does so, eats up two of your turns, 9 of your mana and doesn't win you the game for several turns.
He's hard to cast even with Seething Song. And besides you have so many far far better ways to use Seeting Song.