It seems a bit strong for a 3mana enchantment, of course that doesn't mean much. If real, it seems like it could certainly be a spicy additionQuote:
Originally Posted by PhantomLotus
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It seems a bit strong for a 3mana enchantment, of course that doesn't mean much. If real, it seems like it could certainly be a spicy additionQuote:
Originally Posted by PhantomLotus
Re-read the text and saw I said a complete silliness.
Can any Mod delete this post.
Thanks,
Iņaki.-
If someone wanted to do this, they'd just play Angel's Grace. It's two mana less, uncounterable except via CB and Chalice, and pretty useless.Quote:
Originally Posted by PhantomLotus
very true
What do you guys think of Chrome Mox in the deck? Personally, unless I'm casting Ad Nauseum without mana floating, i find it to be a mostly dead card. I'm wondering if it's not a good idea to cut it entirely.. or maybe just leave 1 copy in. Though on the other hand, it does help with Hellbent when I don't have LED.
I run two, not so much because it's all that good, but because it's (IMO) better than the extra two land. It's also nice to have more than 4 ways to continue comboing if you have to go for AdN without mana floating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Solar Ice
The builds with two Chrome Mox are designed to go off with Ad Nauseam. Frankly I don't do this a lot.
Hey, Inaki, do you ever have problems against Merfolk? The reason I ask this is that with slight dependence on red, 1) taxing counters can cut us off colors before you get your ritual effects together (although not as bad as it does for TES) and 2) it becomes harder to support Xantid Swarm which straight up wins the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by egosum
I'm splashing green for Tropical Island main (17th land) and a Reverent Silence plus Xantid Swarms in the sideboard, but I'm trying to decide the merits of going with a more stable manabase that doesn't have those options.
I haven't tested merfolks much, but as long as I ' ve tested I' ve won the rounds (losing some matches). Nevertheless I think this deck if have any trobules agains thte folk is not because of BW, you still have the lotuses to keep going if somethign wrong happens tho the volcanic (that should be concealed until the time yuo need it), But I can think TESmay have better pairing against the blue Tribal deck only because it plays EtW, this is why I adviced to add empty the warrens in the sideboard for a metagme expecting lots of merfolks, the reasonalb eSlot for EtW will be the one actually filled by the Second Ad Nauseam (this is the slot I dedicate to metagame, so depending where it could be ADN, Wipe Away, EtW, 2nd IGG, ...)
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
What does everyone think about the High Tide match up? It seems close from what I've been goldfishing, but I can't tell if it actually is or if my sample set has been biased by lots of MWS hands with basic swamp and a million cantrips.
It's a little over 50/50. They are about a turn and a half slower because your disruption is better than theres. In testing is found myself needing to go for adnaus most of the time because it was faster (and because of merchant scroll and 10 cantrips then almost always have a force). You need a turn 3 go off or else your dead.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriLax
Played around 6 matches against it on MWS, and won all of them. Overall, I'd say we're favourites. Discard can be crucial though.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriLax
They have 4 force, you have 6-7 duress effects and should be faster in assembling the combo + they have no form of damage to deal to you and besides the 4 force, they have no way to interact.Quote:
Originally Posted by AriLax
It should be positive, random screws are there, but I see no reason why we shouldn't win it.
Well, they 4 force, 4 merchant scroll, and 10 cantrips (plus the last case scenario cunning wish for pact followed by a high tide to pay for it).Quote:
Originally Posted by practical joke
None the less, the proactive duress effects are better than the reactive counterspells in the matchup, and their goldfish is usually turn 4.
the few times I have played against it they need a pretty stacked hand to win. Usually a single duress is enough to force through the win, as they are fairly light on interaction. In general they are just a bit slower and don't have an "i win" nuts draw to just kill (with protection) on turn 1-2.
That said, I love seeing my opponent on storm when I'm playing Solidarity...
I've played it a few times during dailies on Magic Online and it seemed like a positive matchup to me. You have more disruption and if they scroll for forces they're a bit slower than they could be as well. Ad Nauseam from ~17-18 with mana floating usually gets there.
I dont take very good notes while I'm playing and I have a terrible memory, but I can say I feel my deck is running very smooth and I am happy with it.
// Deck file for Magic Workstation (http://www.magicworkstation.com)
// Lands
1 [SOM] Island (1)
1 [SOM] Swamp (1)
4 [ON] Polluted Delta
2 [R] Underground Sea
3 [ZEN] Verdant Catacombs
2 [U] Volcanic Island
1 [B] Badlands
2 [ZEN] Scalding Tarn
// Spells
4 [MI] Lion's Eye Diamond
4 [V09] Lotus Petal
1 [ALA] Ad Nauseam
4 [CST] Brainstorm
4 [TO] Cabal Ritual
4 [DDE] Dark Ritual
4 [M11] Duress
1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
3 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
4 [M10] Ponder
3 [M11] Preordain
1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
3 [LRW] Thoughtseize
4 [JU] Burning Wish
// Sideboard
SB: 1 [US] Ill-Gotten Gains
SB: 1 [DIS] Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 [SC] Tendrils of Agony
SB: 2 [ON] Chain of Vapor
SB: 1 [M10] Deathmark
SB: 1 [GP] Shattering Spree
SB: 1 [TSP] Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 [CHK] Eye of Nowhere
SB: 4 [6E] Doomsday
SB: 1 [LRW] Shelldock Isle
SB: 1 [ROE] Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
At a local tournement, 4 rounds, I managed to go 3-1 cut to top 8, and punted game 3 of the top 8 due to inexperience and playing too fast.
Round 1 vs Burn
Basically goldfishing, not much he did to stop me as he mulled to 4 game 1, then kept a 1 land 6 game 2. He did have maindeck Pyroblasts, so I went off without cantripping.
Round 2 vs Big zoo with maindeck Teeg
Game 1 I went off without a hitch, ad Naus got there.
Game 2 he plays turn 2 Teeg, I bounce it EoT with Chain. . .which was probably a mistake. . and then rip the thoughtseize to get rid of it. He gets me down to 3, and I rip a tendrils. My hand was Dark Rit, Cabal Rit, Cabal Rit, Ad Naus, Infernal, Tendrils. Short tendrils him for 8, then ad naus'd with 0 floating and an island untapped. . Got some mana, and a wish to Tendrils him the rest of the way.
Round 3 vs Merfolk
Game 1 - I punt due to miscounting mana, gogog bad hand writing.
Game 2 - He has triple cursecatcher, 2 spellpierces, and 2 forces by turn 3. Not much I could have done.
Round 4 vs NO Bant
Game 1 - Duress away his counters, go off without a hitch, no big deal.
Game 2 - He has pierces out the ass, and NO's for Terastodon and destroys my 3 lands. I scooped um up.
Game 3 - I side in doomsday on a whim, Get a shelldock in play and Emrakul gets him to 4, then Rit Rit Tendrils finishes him off. He didnt have the force.
Top8 vs TA
Game 1 - He didnt know what I was playing, and I knew what he was playing. I keep a turn 3 win. I got it, and Ad Naus gets there.
Game 2 - He has every spellpierce in his opener, and just locks me out of everything, then Hymn and Thoughtseize.
Game 3 - I manage to build up a hand, and Ad Naus with 0 floating, he has a force in hand, Daze + Blue card in GY. This is where my inexperience blows me, and I flip too far with Ad Naus and kill myself. After I lose Ari looks at my hand and Ad Naus pile and tells me where I could have stopped, and how I could have won with Iggy. . .ohwell, gotta learn somehow.
Sorry I dont have exact lines of play I did, I know this is probably useless, but overall I am very happy with the deck. Burning Wish is a great addition, even without the red rits, not very often do I find myself without the 1 red I need, and I've only gone for ETW once, usually it's Wish for Tutor, pass. The versitility of a wish board really does great things for me, with all these people running MD teegs and whatnot.
Also - Burning Wish is a great counter catcher if I don't need it for whatever reason. Fun to go Burning Wish > Counter > Rit Rit Rit Infernal/Ad Naus/Whatever
Edit - My deck list isn't 100% the same as my MWS deck, it's 4 Polluted, 4 Flooded, 1 Misty. It's just the fetches I personally own. I dont know if I would change them, I'm pretty happy with them considering I need to be able to fetch red/blue sometimes, and only have 1 basic swamp. Maybe 2-3 Bloodstained but those are in another deck we use for play testing, and I'm lazy and it hasnt screwed me out of a game yet.
Played in the same local. I've basically determined the UW Counterbalance matchup is actually reasonably awkward to Doomsday as they can tutor up Needle. It might just be better to stay Ad Naus and try to fight them that way if they don't board very heavily. Also, this whole losing to G1 Gaddock Teeg thing can be obnoxious. I'm not actually sure that Wish is good enough though, and really don't want to switch to Doomsdays.
For all those whe are not sold on the Idea of packing DD, because whether your metagame is full of needle (specially CB decks there) or just because changing the plan seems bad for you and you don't like to have DD as a Wish target. I' ve been also testing an alternate sideboard for the deck with green splash:
-4x Doomsday
-1x Emrakul
-1x Shelldock Isle
+1x Tropical Island
+1x Reverent Silence (Wish Target)
+2x Krosan Grip (can be 1+1 Wipe Away, not sure what' s better).
+1x Echoing Truth
+1x Empty the Warrens (not sure about this but since the board has more room it can be useful in given situations)
The main concern of having a DD --> Emrakul side plan is that it eats a lot of space and you are losing cards to deal with enchantments (just the 2x Chain of Vapor and no wish Target), so changing to this side you will increase the chances of overcoming Leyline of Sanctity and Pyrosatatic Pillar is this is the hate you face in your meta. Also Still have nice options against CB-Top with the Krosna Grips and the Reverent Silence as a Wish target.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
I've been goldfish testing with the green splash. I think you're sometimes going to want to wish for Reverent Silence in game 1 before you can put Tropical Island in, so it makes more sense to me to have that maindeck. That comes at the cost of a less stable manabase, but I run Trop as the 17th land whereas you have 16 (so I'm also cutting the 3rd Thoughtseize).Quote:
Originally Posted by egosum
What I really dislike about burning wish is that it completely screws our sideboard - there is no more room for xantid swarms(and I don't like plaing more than 3 colours in this deck as one of the main reasons to play ANT over TES is its consistency and resiliance to wasteland) wich I'd really hate to drop, as they're basically gg against merfolk and help with some other difficult matchups like TA. Thus recently I'm testing build with Doomsdays maindeck, my list is slightly modified UBg Lax Storm:
Lands 16
4x Polluted Delta
2x Verdant Catacombs
2x Misty Rainforest
2x Island
2x Swamp
2x Underground Sea
1x Tropical Island
1x Bayou
Cantrips 12
4x Brainstorm
4x Ponder
2x Preordain
2x Sensei's Divining Top
Acceleration 15
4x Dark Ritual
3x Cabal Ritual
4x Lotus Petal
4x Lion's Eye Diamond
Protection 6
4x Duress
2x Thoughtseize
Bussiness 10
4x Infernal Tutor
3x Doomsday
1x Ideas Unbound
1x Ad Nauseam
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Tendrils of Agony
Sideboard
4x Xantid Swarm
1x Doomsday
1x Emrakul
1x Shelldock Isle
1x Deathmark
2x Chain of Vapor
1x Echoing Truth
1x Rebuild
3x open slots
Running Doomsdays maindeck opens up three additional slots in the sideboard, and by squeezing single chain of vapor somwhere in the maindeck you could go off g1 with Gaddock Teeg on the board. It allows to go off with few cards in hand while low on life, wich might not be otherwise possible (when you can't go for Iggy becouse they have force in graveyard/not enough storm count and Ad Nauseam would kill you), as well as allowing to mini-tendrils your oponnent several times in one game (does'nt come up very often, but still) as Doomsday shuffles back your grave. It also allows you to go off turn 2 more often than Burning Wish and if you go for Ad Nauseam, Doomsday is just a slighly worse Grim Tutor that requires +1 mana and cantrip, with the possibilty to generate 10 +storm off itself.
It all however comes at a price, as the decks average CMC becomes slightly highier making Ad Nauseum a bit worse, and in order to make full use of Doomsday you need to play some otherwise clunky cards like Ideas Unbound and Sensei's Divining Top - I have really mixed feeling about sensei in this deck; you need at least one for DD piles, and going off with DD is sooo much easier when you have sensei in play, sometimimes its great if you failed to go off turn 1-2 and you're trying to sculpt a perfect hand against standstill or plaing in a topdeck mode agains hymn to tourach deck, but there are also times I just wish it was preordain, wich would make me go off so much faster.. Another issue is that while playing with Grim Tutor/Burning Wish you can use all your cantrips asap, to dig for more action, while with Doomsday you always have to keep in mind, that you need at least one cantrip in hand(or sensei in play) to go off, having a hand full of rituals and plaing your single cantrip just to find Doomsday and no other cantrip on the top of your deck could be awkward.
Having said that, the list still works quite well for me, and though it definetely requires some tweaking, I encourage everyone to give it a try.
You missed the biggest reason to play Doomsday right now: tutorable maindeck Chain of Vapor.
Ideas Unbound is significantly worse than Meditate in a deck chock full of black rituals. This has been documented pretty well on storm boards fwiw.
Doomsday requires 4 SDT to operate when your primary plan is Tendrils of Agony. SDT is the best draw spell for the card, and often lets you sidestep IGG completely by going IT->DD, DD, SDT->Meditate.
While I really like playing DDFT (and would advocate it right now to anyone who asked me), it is extremely difficult to run it alongside Ad Nauseam right now. With a much higher average CMC and a higher variance, Ad Nauseam becomes fairly bad. Some people solved this by playing less than 4 (2 in his case) Infernal Tutors, so you ended up with a business configuration that was something like: 2 IT, 4 DD, 1 AdN, 1 Meditate but even then you're severely starved for initial mana. Being low on initial mana makes the 12 cantrips the deck wants to run worse since you're taking damage from stuff that is essentially dead (unlike TES, which can often cast Brainstorm/Ponder to dig deeper).
I mentioned possibilty of maindeck chain of vapor, I'm just currently not running it becouse it is not needed in my local meta. I do realize that Ad Nauseam is significantly worse in this deck than in TES, and going off through Ad Nauseam is always the worst case scenario becouse of variance, but the raw power of this card still makes me want to play it, in fact I started off with the DDFT list, but I was often facing situations when I wished I had an additional out in the form of Ad Nauseam. And while casting AN in this deck without mana in pool is a suicide, just 1 mana floating and a land drop usually gets there. The average CMC isn't that much highier than in standard Lax Storm lists.
I chose to run Ideas Unbound over Meditate even though getting UU is more difficult, asI can at least cast it for some value if I happen to draw it, where Meditate was always a dead card in my hand, unless I also had Doomsday.
As to Sensei - I started with 4 in my list(replacing all preordains) and decided to cut them, while it is absolutely best card to go with DD, its usually mediocore without it, chaining tutors into tendrils is still the primary route to victory with this deck and I feel that preordain supports this strategy much better. I might hower come to a different conlusion after even more testing :P as I realize you have much more experiance with the deck than I do. Btw. thx for the primer on DD piles, I found really helpful a while ago when I decided to pick this deck!
I can see the point, but you will only want Reverent Silence against CB-Top (even maindeck), tehre are no other decks that play maindeck enchantments that can put us in a difficult situation, period. I' ve thought on taht a lot and, in fact, I ' ve added the 3rd Thoughtseize cutting the lands 17 from the original build. The idea is that having more discard maindeck you are powering your ratio against any blue deck (included CB-Top), and with access to Reverent silence you are only having an extra tool against CB. Nevertheless, despite it is too costy, I know, you can always BW -- Reverent Silence and Pay it with Lotus Petal, I know this is very desperate but modern CB decks have an Ice-colc clock, so maybe we can set it for the win without Green sources. The other option is to cut another basic Island, but this is no negotiable I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by lordofthepit
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
Well... depending on whether you consider Enchantress a real deck or not...Quote:
Originally Posted by egosum
Still, I'd probably leave the Tropical in the board.
Enchantress is, of course, a real deck, but not a real contender for Storm decks, unles they have the Goddest hand.
Greetings,
Iņaki.-
even then, it's doable to win. because none of their enchantments are a threat.Quote:
Originally Posted by egosum
If you ad nauseam at Turn 3 of 4 and flip a few mana and some chains, you can bounce everything relevant.
A friend tried it against me.
T1 3x leyline of sanctity, T2 pro-enchantment, T3 runed halo.
Resp. bounce the enchantment.
Cast Ad nauseam, make tons of mana,tutor for second chain, bounce 2 more enchantments, make more mana ill-gotten gains into 2x chain, 1x tutor into tendrills.
easy :)
Also, you can just Emrakul them. That always works.Quote:
Originally Posted by practical joke
Hi Ari,
Can i get some pointers on crafting my Doomsday-Shelldock-Emrakul ? :)
I don't know how to make a good pile on different situations...
(i can't find your primer(s) or guide )
Thanks!
not that hard really and really is situation dependant..but the basics are:Quote:
Originally Posted by rnightingale
emrakul, (place 4 or so)
shelldock, (on top or second, depends on if you are expecting a clique, if so, brainstorm on top)
in case of going through your library, doomsday on the bottom (to make a new library)
you'll have 2 -3 open slots, these could be: trickbind (in case of oddities, mostly not needed), chain of vapor, duress.
I think situations speak for themselves, no primer needed.
Thanks sir :)
So, the pile should look like this ?
Top : Brainstorm or Shelldock
2nd : Brainstorm or Shelldock
3rd : ??????? (Trickbind, CoV, Duress)
4th : Doomsday
Bottom : Emrakul, Aeons Torn
Please bear with me, this is my first time using DD Sideboard. Originally, my sideboard is like this..
4 BOB
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Nighthawk
3 Clique
and i wanna try mr. Lax' build ^^
is it safe to use Dream's Grip/Cloud of Faeries to untap my Shelldock Isle?
Very interesting sideboard rnightingale. I never thought of trying something like that.
I'm assuming that you would side out, all tutors, LEDs, Ad Nauseaun and IGG, and then some Preordains to reach the full 15.
How did it work for you? We Nighthawks good enough to be competitive in Legacy? Did you just feel like a bad beatdown deck?
I guess since people would miss-board I could see it being good.
This weekend I ran the following decklist, currently named TNT.
It's actually more like ANT than it is towards TES:
2 islands
1 swamp
1 underground sea
1 volcanic island
1 badlands
4 scalding tarn
4 polluted delta
1 bloodstained mire
2 chrome mox
4 lotus petal
4 lion's eye diamond
4 dark ritual
4 cabal ritual
4 infernal tutor
3 burning wish
4 duress
3 thoughtseize
3 preordain
4 brainstorm
4 ponder
2 ad nauseam
SB:
1 deathmark
1 ill-gotten gains
1 tendrills of agony
1 tropical island
4 xantid swarm
1 pulverize
1 thoughtseize
3 chain of vapor
1 diminishing returns
1 empty the warrens
and a small report (102 players):
Round 1: bye
Round 2: Dark Horizons (2-1)
Game 1: I win after a duressing his hymn and win shortly after through Ad nauseam from high
Game 2: Dark horizons does it's thing, seize, hymn, verdict, so I cast diminishing returns for a new hand instead of a few tokens, he draws wasteland + seize and goes wasteland, vindicate, seize. next game for me it was.
Game 3: I overpowered the dark horizons deck big time. He stood no chance.
Round 3: Fatty-Fatty-Boom-Boom 1-2 (yes it's named like that, tempo-deck with stiflenought and hex-depths as win-cons)
Game 1: I seize his hand, see FoW + LDV, take out vault make 16 tokens which get there easily
Game 2: Each cantrip goes into dubbel or triple land and after shuffling goes into a new land, I somehow collected a decent hand with burning wish, infernal tutor and LED, so could've done something nice next turn: seize, extirpate wish....riiiiight
Game 3: I take a risky hand, petal for brainstorm for a land...no land he goes T2 dreadnought with FoW back-up and a dispell (wel counters ad nauseam that's for sure)
Round 4: Death and Taxes or something similar 2-0
Game 1: he goes Mother of Ruins, confidant, dies by tendrills. not much happened here
Game 2: he goes mother of ruins, ethersworn canonist. I find 2 chain of vapors pretty fast and eoT bounce, my turn bounce...kill him with ad nauseam from 16, flipping a second one, but easily get there with 6 life left
Round 5: Dredge 2-0
Game 1: we both fail in finding action, but I do so before him and therefore he dies.
Game 2: funny, he goes T3 for ancestor (lifecount 47) and a buttload of zombies, I have 15 life left.
infernal tutor for second LED (3 lands in play), play second infernal tutor, sac LED's discard ad nauseam + burning wish. Get a buttload of cards play some petals+ chrome moxen, get my 4th led with infernal tutor, play led's some brainstorms and then burning wish for ill-gotten gains and finish it from there. 25 storm...pew pew
Round 6: Bant-something 2-0
Game 1: I duress him, he has actually nothing, take him down
Game 2: same thing happened, wasn't even hard
Round 7: Dark horizons (couldn't ID for T8 due to resistance and odd up/downpairs during the day)
Game 1: He goes T2 teeg, I take it out, at that point have LED + infernal tutor. he topdecks hymn like a champ and I lose shortly after.
Game 2: T1 kill
Game 3: I have a good hand, he start with seize for ad nauseam, then I ponder for a new land, he has another seize for burning wish, I still have brainstorms. 4 cantrips further I still have no business and he goes for e. tutor into canonist (no biggy). I end the game 5 turns later with in play 4 lands + petal, on hand, 3 LED, 3 dark ritual 1 infernal tutor (last draw that was). I continuesly shuffled away my mana during brainstorms and all other cantrips. in the end, my cantrips failed on me.
Ah well, you win some you lose some.
I was extremely satisfied with the deck (except that it crapped on me for T8), it has a very high potential for the field since it's versatile but ridiculously resilient to a lot of things.
However your ill-gotten gains do require more mana, but your ad nauseam is extremely good (even with the second ad nauseam)
I wasn't very satisfied with my 5-2 end, but heck..shit happens = )
Possible changes
-1 seize for +1 preordain (depends, in a high combo + CB meta I want the seize)
-1 deathmark for +1 pyroclasm...I never wanted the deathmark ever instead of the pyroclasm, not true I once was happy I could cast the deathmark in my turn instead of waiting a turn with the pyroclasm, but the clasm would've cleared teeg+confidant instead of just 1.
still reconsidering what's best.
I've been looking at a similar sideboard plan for CB decks as post board, UW ThopSword decks are almost unwinnable due to the high degree of threats they bring in against your combo and/or Doomsday. Specifically, the local meta here has Leyline of Sanctity, Runed Halo, Ensnaring Bridge, Needle, Cannonist, plus the usual business. That combination of cards make it next to impossible to win with Tendrils or Doomsday imho. The board I'm currently working with looks like this:Quote:
Originally Posted by rnightingale
4 Phyrexian Negator
4 Dark Confidant
3 Krosan Grip
1 Tropical Island
2 Thoughtseize
1 Wipeaway
Negator is so good against them postboard. As a clock, he's faster than Tarmogoyf because he starts at five power and Goyf would need seven power to make him a turn faster. He does cost one more, but with all the ritual effects and lotus petal, he's still likely to resolve turn one or two. Plus, even if he resolves on turn three as opposed to turn two, Goyf has to be greater than 4 power on turn three for it to be a faster clock. The odds of them being able to damage him with any consistency are fairly small and ultimately irrelevant. Cannonist is worth sacrificing two permanents to kill and if they get the sword combo online, you're probably dead anyway. Bob is good because its a great to answer their card filtering via Top. Grip and Wipeaway are nice because they remove things like Bridge and Humility if they resolve.
With the recent jump on Legacy staples prices i decided i'm going to invest in my dream deck since i started playing the format, and that is probably going to be the last Legacy deck i spend my money on... ANT.
I already have 2 LEDs coming and yet some investment to do. Having said this, i've been lurking the thread for a while now, and i watched a lot of videos, read a lot about it. I want the first incarnation of my deck to be straight UB and without Grim tutor (for the obvious reasons). Should i go the chrome mox way? i really didn't want to play 2 copies of Ad Nauseam, but is it the best choice?
To put it straight, what you guys think is the best UB list without grim?
Another thing i wanted to know is: i understand the deck as 3 ways of "going off", Ad Nauseam, Ill-gotten gains and tutor chains, i clearly understand the first two ones, and even started to explore the IGG loops for some time. What i'm still not seeing is how the tutor chains happen, in what conditions they happen and what are the conditions they need to happen. Can someone "explain" those to me?
Thx in advance, and sorry about my english... not a native ;)
Tutor chains chain tutors.Quote:
Originally Posted by claudio.r
For example: turn 3, you have ***** and cantrips yielded a hand of 1 dark ritual, 2 cabal ritual, 1 led, 1 duress, infernal tutor. (oppo plays irrelevant deck, no counters)
With 2 lands, you duress, play your mana (12 total, 1 land, +2 DR, +3+3 cabals, +3 LED) infernal tutor (storm 6, 10 mana), infernal tutor (storm 7, 8 mana), infernal tutor (storm 8, 6 mana), infernal tutor (storm 9, 4 mana), toa (storm 10, 0 mana)
Tutor chains have the benefit of offering a guaranteed win without relying on GY (iggy) or life total (Adn).
For the best UB list of the moment,
I don't play a UB list, so I won't answer that question.
(I prefer the burning wish lists)
I might be wrong but chaining tutorsshould happen when you have the time to sculpt your hand for a few turns right? Not a lot of decks give you that opportunity to that. On other side a lot of the people i read seam to use tutor chains as their primary win condition. Are they really that prevalent? Maybe it's the nature of the deck... it's so heavy on mana producers that those hands happen a lot...
Tutor chain is something you do when you have a lot of mana. Its that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by claudio.r
If you haven't played the deck I really recommend against trying to tweak one to fit your budget or playstyle. This is generally a bad decision with any deck, but with storm it's even worse. Go with one of the established lists:
-Ari's straight UB
-My UBr with Burning Wish
-the list that top8'd with Chrome Mox and double Ad Nauseam
-emidln's Doomsday list, which should probably just have its own thread (if it doesn't already).
Agreed on the not tweaking part. Become familiar with the deck first, these decks are too complicated to be doing tweaking without experience. As for Doomsday, do NOT play that deck as a new storm player. Those lists can be found in the Fetch Tendrils thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malakai