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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tao
Of course you would think that Sneak Attack is more dangerous than Show and Tell after testing with a deck full of Sorcery speed Edicts. People relying on Countermagic will think otherwise, especially effects like Daze and Spell Pierce combined with Wasteland.
My edicts were mostly instant-speed, except for Gatekeeper.
Show and Tell lets you drop an uncounterable answer for free. Sneak Attack doesn't. The answer that you've got prepared for Show and Tell doesn't even do anything against Sneak Attack, unless it's a Humility and you've already resolved it. This is the main reason why Sneak Attack is the more powerful card. Also, Show and Tell is hit by Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Flusterstorm and Inquisition of Kozilek while Sneak Attack isn't. Spellstutter Sprite countering Show and Tell is possible, though unlikely, but countering Sneak Attack with Sprite is very difficult. Sneak Attack + Griselbrand kills you in one turn in the worst case, and even in the best case, it draws up to 21 cards instead of the 14 with Show and Tell if unanswered.
Luckily we still have Pithing Needle and Revoker, so it's not like it's impossible to answer and very likely not good enough to be banned.
In any case, if the point is to make SneakShow nonviable (which it appears to be, sadly), banning Sneak Attack is enough. The deck will lose so much consistency that it just won't be good enough for competitive Legacy without Sneak Attack.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Awaclus
In any case, if the point is to make SneakShow nonviable (which it appears to be, sadly), banning Sneak Attack is enough. The deck will lose so much consistency that it just won't be good enough for competitive Legacy without Sneak Attack.
Banning Brainstorm makes the deck impotent ... or at the very least much less consistent.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
Banning Brainstorm makes the deck impotent ... or at the very least much less consistent.
Banning Brainstorm will kill the format.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Ok, so we need to ban delver, gzs, brainstorm, fow, show&tell, sneak attack, and entomb? WTF?
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
Banning Brainstorm will kill the format.
What does that even mean? That's just something people like to say and then back up with nothing resembling a tangible fact.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
What does that even mean?
If you ban Brainstorm enough people will quit playing Legacy that the format would die. I can't believe I had to explain that.
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Originally Posted by
rxavage
Ok, so we need to ban delver, gzs, brainstorm, fow, show&tell, sneak attack, and entomb? WTF?
Seriously, at this point it's: ITT shitty magic players who want everything banned
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
If you ban Brainstorm enough people will quit playing Legacy that the format would die. I can't believe I had to explain that.
When you say *enough*, do you mean *enough* basement dwelling internet barnacles? Or people who actually play legacy, with real cards? Do you have a signed petition? I asked for facts; not your opinion about the whole of the actual tourney attending legacy population.
If you are quitting legacy because an obviously over powered ubiquitous card gets banned then you weren't really interested in the format anyway. You are just a poor deck builder, and a poor player who can't live without a crutch card that lets you cheat your mana base, and probably just cheat in general.
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Seriously, at this point it's: ITT shitty magic players who want everything banned
The shitty players are the ones who can't build decks without access to SCG.com and who can't pilot a deck unless they get to cast a spell which removes any variance from the lines of play. These same players I guess, who want the same fucking card to be a 4x in all 8 of every top 8.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
If you ban Brainstorm enough people will quit playing Legacy that the format would die. I can't believe I had to explain that.
Says who? Who are these people that can't live without one pet card, but expect everyone else to live without theirs?
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
If Brainstorm were to be banned, then AEther Vial decks would reign supreme. Aggro-control would dry up. Maverick might be uberest deck in the format at that point. *shudder* No one wants to be playing Maverick mirrors.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Koby
If Brainstorm were to be banned, then AEther Vial decks would reign supreme. Aggro-control would dry up. Maverick might be uberest deck in the format at that point. *shudder* No one wants to be playing Maverick mirrors.
Tell me about it...its the most mind draining 50 minutes of the day.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Awaclus
My edicts were mostly instant-speed, except for Gatekeeper.
Show and Tell lets you drop an uncounterable answer for free. Sneak Attack doesn't. The answer that you've got prepared for Show and Tell doesn't even do anything against Sneak Attack, unless it's a Humility and you've already resolved it. This is the main reason why Sneak Attack is the more powerful card. Also, Show and Tell is hit by Pyroblast, Red Elemental Blast, Flusterstorm and Inquisition of Kozilek while Sneak Attack isn't. Spellstutter Sprite countering Show and Tell is possible, though unlikely, but countering Sneak Attack with Sprite is very difficult. Sneak Attack + Griselbrand kills you in one turn in the worst case, and even in the best case, it draws up to 21 cards instead of the 14 with Show and Tell if unanswered.
Luckily we still have Pithing Needle and Revoker, so it's not like it's impossible to answer and very likely not good enough to be banned.
In any case, if the point is to make SneakShow nonviable (which it appears to be, sadly), banning Sneak Attack is enough. The deck will lose so much consistency that it just won't be good enough for competitive Legacy without Sneak Attack.
Sneak attack cost FIVE to cheat a creature in play. FIVE. That's Through the Breach mana cost. A single sphere or Gaddock mean you'll never play your sneak attack. Seriously you can't be comparing SnT with Sneak Attack. Banning Sneak attack make just no sense.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Koby
If Brainstorm were to be banned, then AEther Vial decks would reign supreme. Aggro-control would dry up. Maverick might be uberest deck in the format at that point. *shudder* No one wants to be playing Maverick mirrors.
wat
So the only thing that is keeping combo in check is force of will and the only thing keeping aggro in check is brainstorm. Must be tiring for all the blue mages holding this format together!
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
When you say *enough*, do you mean *enough* basement dwelling internet barnacles? Or people who actually play legacy, with real cards? Do you have a signed petition? I asked for facts; not your opinion about the whole of the actual tourney attending legacy population.
If you are quitting legacy because an obviously over powered ubiquitous card gets banned then you weren't really interested in the format anyway. You are just a poor deck builder, and a poor player who can't live without a crutch card that lets you cheat your mana base, and probably just cheat in general.
People who actually play legacy, like me. I would personally stop playing Legacy, cash out my $13,000 dollars in cards, buy a (good) standard deck, and maybe a new car. And I know I am not alone, we have had this discussion in my play group many times. I can't imagine that we are alone. Also, I love the assertion that all blue players cheat while asking for proof to back up my claim.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
The shitty players are the ones who can't build decks without access to SCG.com and who can't pilot a deck unless they get to cast a spell which removes any variance from the lines of play. These same players I guess, who want the same fucking card to be a 4x in all 8 of every top 8.
No that would make them shitty deck builders not shitty players, learn the fucking difference. I will give you the point that Brainstorm does take a little variance out of the game, but I mean that's the point isn't it. I hate playing games where either player is stuck not being able to do anything. If I wanted that I would play sealed all the time. Variance takes skill out of the game, making it less chess and more poker, and that doesn't seem that appealing to me. If you want a less skill intensive format I would suggest playing another format.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
People who actually play legacy, like me. I would personally stop playing Legacy, cash out my $13,000 dollars in cards, buy a (good) standard deck, and maybe a new car. And I know I am not alone, we have had this discussion in my play group many times. I can't imagine that we are alone. Also, I love the assertion that all blue players cheat while asking for proof to back up my claim.
No that would make them shitty deck builders not shitty players, learn the fucking difference. I will give you the point that Brainstorm does take a little variance out of the game, but I mean that's the point isn't it. I hate playing games where either player is stuck not being able to do anything. If I wanted that I would play sealed all the time. Variance takes skill out of the game, making it less chess and more poker, and that doesn't seem that appealing to me. If you want a less skill intensive format I would suggest playing another format.
So you mean in addition to making the format more diverse, we'll have more access
(and therefore lower prices) to all the cards that are being hoarded across the planet?
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
wat
So the only thing that is keeping combo in check is force of will and the only thing keeping aggro in check is brainstorm. Must be tiring for all the blue mages holding this format together!
Maybe you don't understand how Brainstorm operates in this format. It allows people to play denser decks by skimping on lands/answers. Take away that option and now people need to play more lands/answers - this leads to a slowing down of the format.
That means control will have to play "overload" in order to compete. It means combo has to play more/other cantrips. It means Force of Will is less reliable.
All of this improves traditional Aggro to take over.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Koby
Maybe you don't understand how Brainstorm operates in this format. It allows people to play denser decks by skimping on lands/answers. Take away that option and now people need to play more lands/answers - this leads to a slowing down of the format.
That means control will have to play "overload" in order to compete. It means combo has to play more/other cantrips. It means Force of Will is less reliable.
All of this improves traditional Aggro to take over.
These people don't know how anything works in the format.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
So you mean in addition to making the format more diverse, we'll have more access
(and therefore lower prices) to all the cards that are being hoarded across the planet?
If by "making the format more diverse," you mean, there will be no established meta. And by "have more access to all the cards," you mean, no legacy events so the cards will be worthless. Then yes, that's what I mean.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Koby
Maybe you don't understand how Brainstorm operates in this format. It allows people to play denser decks by skimping on lands/answers. Take away that option and now people need to play more lands/answers - this leads to a slowing down of the format.
That means control will have to play "overload" in order to compete. It means combo has to play more/other cantrips. It means Force of Will is less reliable.
All of this improves traditional Aggro to take over.
What you don't get is that some people would welcome that. Just because you don't doesn't make your opinion any more correct than theirs.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
What you don't get is that some people would welcome that. Just because you don't doesn't make your opinion any more correct than theirs.
There is a format just like that, its called Modern.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
I would personally stop playing Legacy, cash out my $13,000 dollars in cards, buy a (good) standard deck...
Ok just slowly back away from the ledge. We don't want to do anything too irrational here. If we do lose something like brainstorm, you don't have to do something as extreme as play standard. We have other options like Vintage or EDH. No need to throw your life away.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
wat
So the only thing that is keeping combo in check is force of will and the only thing keeping aggro in check is brainstorm. Must be tiring for all the blue mages holding this format together!
Uh ... the best aggro deck plays Brainstorm. So does the best combo deck(s). Oh and the best control deck as well. But hey why cite facts when you can just rage quit over an obvious ban candidate finally getting it's due.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
There is a format just like that, its called Modern.
I can't play ALL my pet cards in modern.
I have just as much right to want to play 4 Aether Vial in all my decks as you have to want to play 4x Brainstorm
Vial Legacy decks have been viable in legacy forever as well.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
joemauer
Ok just slowly back away from the ledge. We don't want to do anything too irrational here. If we do lose something like brainstorm, you don't have to do something as extreme as play standard. We have other options like Vintage or EDH. No need to throw your life away.
I guess I could play vintage, but I am not getting back into edh. That's the only format my playgroup is more cutthroat in than Legacy.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
I can't play ALL my pet cards in modern.
I have just as much right to want to play 4 Aether Vial in all my decks as you have to want to play 4x Brainstorm
Vial Legacy decks have been viable in legacy forever as well.
You see there is the difference. I want to win legacy games and have brainstorm in the format (mostly because a format without it would detract from the format). You want to win legacy games with your pet cards. We all have the right to try to win games, we all have the right to play pet cards, we shouldn't have the right to have certain cards be competitive. The ban list shouldn't have to win games for you.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
People who actually play legacy, like me. I would personally stop playing Legacy, cash out my $13,000 dollars in cards, buy a (good) standard deck, and maybe a new car. And I know I am not alone, we have had this discussion in my play group many times. I can't imagine that we are alone. Also, I love the assertion that all blue players cheat while asking for proof to back up my claim.
So enlighten us all. What exactly is a 'blue player' these days? With Brainstorm perfect 32/32'ing an SCG (after coming close many many times) isn't everyone a 'blue player'. WTF does that term even mean? Isn't everyone just playing magic?
Here I was asking for unbannings but now I think I'd rather have Crutchstorm banned just to see if you and your play group really just sell your ball and go home.
Assuming you are somehow correct at least we'd see an end to supply issues, prices would fall and make a great format accessible to more people. Probably people who are sick of the stalest least interactive format of all Standard. Where people sit around and ramp things onto the board and have no interaction on the stack at all. Oh wait ... that's the format you are going to run to for refuge. That makes a ton of sense. I also love how you would 'buy a deck' ... since the thought of actually making one hasn't crossed your brain. Which dovetails into why you cling to Brainstorm like a dog on a bone, you just can't picture a deck without it because you just haven't played much magic.
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No that would make them shitty deck builders not shitty players, learn the fucking difference.
Exactly. You are building 56 card decks right now because there is no compelling reason, besides a chalice on 1 not to play 4 x Brainstorm. It doesn't take a savant deck builder to realize that.
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I will give you the point that Brainstorm does take a little variance out of the game, but I mean that's the point isn't it.
Sure, but it's clearly so far and away doing that job that the aggro deck, the combo deck, and the control deck all fucking play it. You know what else reduces variance? Ancestral Recall. Of course you've never played vintage so your perspective is a bit skewed.
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If you want a less skill intensive format I would suggest playing another format.
I was waiting for my favorite internet brainstorm elitist phrase to pop up. There it is! "Skill Intensive" ... yes because casting targeted discard isn't skill intensive. Using Liliana isn't. Combat involving 3 Knights a Mother of Runes, 2 uncracked fetchs, hands full of Rangers and Mindcensors, and bolts ... all of that pales to the greatest test of skill man kind has ever conquered ... the mighty fucking Brainstorm. Give me a fucking break. Most of the people who repeat the same tired internet message board 'skill intensive brainstorm' bullshit haven't even taken college level calculus.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
I was waiting for my favorite internet brainstorm elitist phrase to pop up. There it is! "Skill Intensive" ... yes because casting targeted discard isn't skill intensive. Using Liliana isn't. Combat involving 3 Knights a Mother of Runes, 2 uncracked fetchs, hands full of Rangers and Mindcensors, and bolts ... all of that pales to the greatest test of skill man kind has ever conquered ... the mighty fucking Brainstorm. Give me a fucking break. Most of the people who repeat the same tired internet message board 'skill intensive brainstorm' bullshit haven't even taken college level calculus.
You, sir, win the thread
http://gifslocosanimados.files.wordp...clap.gif?w=590
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Yeah, that was pretty awesome. I personally believe that Brainstorm should never be banned from legacy, because of the "format-defining" property it holds -- not insofar as that it's a really, really good card (frankly, on power-level, it almost certainly -should- be banned). But I'll echo others when I say that 4x Brainstorm IS legacy to me...and I don't play blue decks! I don't think that Wizards will ban Brainstorm, because there was an obvious and direct correlation between banning Brainstorm and Vintage essentially ceasing to exist as a format for several years. If they ever do, I think that we should take it as a sign that Legacy will shortly cease existing as a [Wizards sanctioned] format.
But all of that aside, using the argument that Brainstorm won't get banned because it's a "skill intensive" card is absolutely asinine, and props to Nedleeds for going all-in.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
So enlighten us all. What exactly is a 'blue player' these days? With Brainstorm perfect 32/32'ing an SCG (after coming close many many times) isn't everyone a 'blue player'. WTF does that term even mean? Isn't everyone just playing magic?
Here I was asking for unbannings but now I think I'd rather have Crutchstorm banned just to see if you and your play group really just sell your ball and go home.
What the fuck are you talking about 'blue player', did I even use this phrase anywhere?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
Sure, but it's clearly so far and away doing that job that the aggro deck, the combo deck, and the control deck all fucking play it. You know what else reduces variance? Ancestral Recall. Of course you've never played vintage so your perspective is a bit skewed.
Yeah I am sure Ancestral Recall reduces variance, it also generates card advantage something brainstorm does not do. You can't really compare the two on a level playing field. Of course you don't really play legacy so your perspective is a bit skewed. (that last sentence is sarcastic, it is there to show how arrogant your last sentence was. You have NO idea how much vintage I have played.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
I was waiting for my favorite internet brainstorm elitist phrase to pop up. There it is! "Skill Intensive" ... yes because casting targeted discard isn't skill intensive. Using Liliana isn't. Combat involving 3 Knights a Mother of Runes, 2 uncracked fetchs, hands full of Rangers and Mindcensors, and bolts ... all of that pales to the greatest test of skill man kind has ever conquered ... the mighty fucking Brainstorm. Give me a fucking break. Most of the people who repeat the same tired internet message board 'skill intensive brainstorm' bullshit haven't even taken college level calculus.
Sweet bro, you took a quote out of context and responded to it, that is less skill intensive than actually addressing my point. I was explicitly saying variance makes the game less skill intensive, not brainstorm. l2r please.
Edit: A friend of mine just pointed out the part about college calc and I LOLed. Some how that's a metric of intelligence. (Full disclosure - I have a bachelors degree in Comp Sci, so yeah I had to take calc in college)
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
What the fuck are you talking about 'blue player', did I even use this phrase anywhere?
Yes. Actually you did. In the prior post. I quoted you. Are you mad?
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Originally Posted by TooCloseToTheSun
assertion that all blue players
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I was explicitly saying variance makes the game less skill intensive, not brainstorm. l2r please.
Weighing a situation with variance requires analytic skill. It requires math skills. It requires a look at the game state as it is, what has been done previously and a million other things. L2Think please.
Brainstorm makes everything easier. Not harder. From deck building all the way down to managing resources in the game. Combating discard, evaluating a threat, etc. everything is much much easier with Brainstorm on your team.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
Yes. Actually you did. In the prior post. I quoted you. Are you mad?
Oh yeah that's from when you made the claim anyone who plays brainstorm is a cheater. And if you play blue you play brainstorm right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
Brainstorm makes everything easier. Not harder. From deck building all the way down to managing resources in the game. Combating discard, evaluating a threat, etc. everything is much much easier with Brainstorm on your team.
This shit is just retarded. Every deck in the format uses cards to combat variance and all of them require skill to play. That should be one of the goals when building a deck, minimize variance.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
Yes. Actually you did. In the prior post. I quoted you. Are you mad?
Weighing a situation with variance requires analytic skill. It requires math skills. It requires a look at the game state as it is, what has been done previously and a million other things. L2Think please.
Brainstorm makes everything easier. Not harder. From deck building all the way down to managing resources in the game. Combating discard, evaluating a threat, etc. everything is much much easier with Brainstorm on your team.
I never thought of it this way, but you're right!
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
Oh yeah that's from when you made the claim anyone who plays brainstorm is a cheater. And if you play blue you play brainstorm right?
You don't seem to understand the aspects of the game outside of playing it mechanically. Cards that manipulate the deck are often used to cheat, and no card that manipulates the deck is used more often than Brainstorm. The card is used in conjunction with fetch lands more often than any other card to cheat. On multiple occasions I have seen people perform a complex set of actions at once and use the flurry of activity to draw four from Brainstorm or stack their deck while resolving a fetch land. Perhaps you understand how cards work, and how a card is good, but you don't seem to understand how a format is balanced, and you certainly don't understand higher concepts like how people are able to cheat, which is disquieting, because they are willing and able, and almost certainly have done so against you.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
Yeah I am sure Ancestral Recall reduces variance, it also generates card advantage something brainstorm does not do. You can't really compare the two on a level playing field.
Yes one is absolutely more powerful, I don't debate that. But they are both restricted in Vintage. You take the infantile view of card advantage and you discount the value of cards when viewed in the context of an active game of magic. This is why brainstorm 8-for-8 SCGs and 12-for-16 GPs. Most cards in magic like any resource in any game have a relative value based on the game state ('situational value'), brainstorm in conjunction with a shuffle effect allows to to ... like no other unbanned card ... exchange cards with little situational value for those with great situational value for so little investment of mana (along with replacing itself ... as it's draw3put3back). The simple example for most traditionally constructed decks is a land. A land has high value in the early turns as you build resources, later in the game it's value diminishes if the board state has developed. STP has little value when staring down a goblin charbelcher on the stack. I'm sure you and your play group understand these concepts well.
Look, if you just like playing with the card and don't want it banned I'm completely fine with that. But don't fight the losing argument that given the current ban list that it doesn't belong there.
If I held the keys, I probably wouldn't ban brainstorm without at least trying some unbannings first. I'd go with something like
- Mind Twist
- Earthcraft (laughable really ... since any Earthcraft combo deck would likely play Brainstorm as it's the best way to get rid of superflous pieces and find the other part of the combo)
- Black Vise
I'd like
- Land Tax (with Vise keeping it in check)
and
- Survival (slow, and with so much gravehate running around)
to get unbanned also, but honestly these two cards in conjunction with brainstorm are probably too much.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
pants
You don't seem to understand the aspects of the game outside of playing it mechanically. Cards that manipulate the deck are often used to cheat, and no card that manipulates the deck is used more often than Brainstorm. The card is used in conjunction with fetch lands more often than any other card to cheat. On multiple occasions I have seen people perform a complex set of actions at once and use the flurry of activity to draw four from Brainstorm or stack their deck while resolving a fetch land. Perhaps you understand how cards work, and how a card is good, but you don't seem to understand how a format is balanced, and you certainly don't understand higher concepts like how people are able to cheat, which is disquieting, because they are willing and able, and almost certainly have done so against you.
Are you fucking kidding me. Of course I know people cheat at this game. I have seen people cheat in all kinds of ways from mulling to seven, to brainstorming four, to fetch tutoring. What I am saying is, I don't think you can claim that everyone who plays brainstorm is a cheater, just like you can't say anyone who uses fetchlands is a cheater, or anyone who mulligans is a cheater.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Star|Scream
I never thought of it this way, but you're right!
I didn't even get into keep / mulligan decisions. Which when you are playing brainstorm are fucking child's play compared to when you aren't. Keep-able on the draw, one land brainstorm hands are no problem.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
I didn't even get into keep / mulligan decisions. Which when you are playing brainstorm are fucking child's play compared to when you aren't. Keep-able on the draw, one land brainstorm hands are no problem.
Reduced variance. Maverick does it by having a ton of redundant drops, blue does it with brainstorm.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
I'm not playing blue decks for the most time, but I really don't want Brainstorm to get the axe. BS can be as much part of the cure as it is part of the disease.
The disease, these days, seems to be Griselbrand - well, mostly. Before its printing, after all, SnT has been pretty much "in check", right? Even with Emrakul, which is about as outrageously absurdly over-te-top-ed-ly (these are all words now!) "designed" as it gets. The fact that a 10/10 invulnerable hydra-headed two-turn-clock cheated into play on turn two doesn't make anyone's head turn in comparison to Griselbrand should be telling you something.
Same thing happened with Survival of the Fittest and Vengevine a few moons back. I don't believe in all that "card X takes away 'R&D design space'!11!"-bullshit for a second, "R&D" (am I the only one who finds it a bit presumptuous for a company's card-game design department to name itself like that by the way?) just gotta get its shit together and not fuck up designing new cards as often as they happen to do. WotC, please just stop shitting out absurd yu-gi-oh-style fatties on a regular basis that can ruin a format if let loose on it with the tools you have printed before. Thanks very much.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TooCloseToTheSun
You have NO idea how much vintage I have played.
I'm sure you tear it up at "Bob's Baseball Dugout" brah. Which of the 6 chairs do you usually sit in?
http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-..._4037440_n.jpg
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Edit: A friend of mine just pointed out the part about college calc and I LOLed. Some how that's a metric of intelligence. (Full disclosure - I have a bachelors degree in Comp Sci, so yeah I had to take calc in college)
Awesome. I do as well, I feel so close to you now man.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
There's... there's eight chairs there. I think there are more than eight legacy decks. If you and seven friends had every card in Legacy and were able to build every deck, you still couldn't replicate an actual legacy tournament environment. What makes you think you're qualified to decide what gets banned or unbanned?
Edit: Ten chairs. Sorry, you and nine friends.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Tammit67
Reduced variance. Maverick does it by having a ton of redundant drops, blue does it with brainstorm.
To some extent tutors as well. GSZ represents a cross section of your deck. Sylvan Library can help, as can the deck thinning of fetches and knights as the game goes long. But none are as cheap and efficient as brainstorm.
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Re: All B/R update speculation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by
nedleeds
Yes one is absolutely more powerful, I don't debate that. But they are both restricted in Vintage. You take the infantile view of card advantage and you discount the value of cards when viewed in the context of an active game of magic. This is why brainstorm 8-for-8 SCGs and 12-for-16 GPs. Most cards in magic like any resource in any game have a relative value based on the game state ('situational value'), brainstorm in conjunction with a shuffle effect allows to to ... like no other unbanned card ... exchange cards with little situational value for those with great situational value for so little investment of mana (along with replacing itself ... as it's draw3put3back). The simple example for most traditionally constructed decks is a land. A land has high value in the early turns as you build resources, later in the game it's value diminishes if the board state has developed. STP has little value when staring down a goblin charbelcher on the stack. I'm sure you and your play group understand these concepts well.
I guess my (infantile) definition of card advantage is different from yours. You see I define card advantage thusly: "If a sequence of plays (or decisions) ends with a player up one or more cards, that player has gained card advantage." What brainstorm provides is Card Quality.
