[Official] Bitching About Prices, Buyouts and Reprints Thread

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Originally Posted by useL

No results found for reback:
Did you mean rebeck?
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Are you serious? Try this one: Fakes, Frauds and Facelifts: How to identify counterfeit and altered Magic cards v3.0

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Originally Posted by Tha Gunslinga

That one is probably rebacked too.

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Are you saying that b/c of the corners and the centering? I just don't know how you can be sure of that from seeing a scan on the internet. I have a beta Lotus that I am sure is real, but I would like to know how to spot fakes too. I'm very familiar with beta and alpha cards but haven't seen many collectors editions so it's hard for me to compare.

This lotus has the same left justified centering. Do you think it's fake?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-BE...item4aaed284ed

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Originally Posted by Tha Gunslinga

That one's fake. It was a reback. You can tell by how shiny/bright it is and how it is miscut slightly. Disappointing to see a major retailer selling something like that.

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Why?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Black-Lotus-...item3f0e20a658

I'm sure it failed some test (bend?).

It's ripped in half and I don't see the blue glue layer.

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Originally Posted by Royal Ass.

This lotus has the same left justified centering. Do you think it's fake?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Authentic-BE...item4aaed284ed

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Interesting how much more wear there is on the back, and how much less on the front. Interesting how the front is misaligned and the back is not. Almost as if the front and the back were from two separate cards...

If I had the card in front of me I couldn't resist bending testing it...

Card just doesn't look right.

Edit: same seller, look at that "beta" (ahem) trop...
http://www.ebay.com/itm/220845542285

Real Alpha Trops have Mark Poole as the artist, so that is either fake in some way or trimmed Beta.

Pretty sure that seller has quite a few illegitimate cards for sale. I was looking for a Beta Sol Ring a few months ago and came across his/hers and it just didn't look right to me.

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Originally Posted by Tha Gunslinga

Interesting how much more wear there is on the back, and how much less on the front. Interesting how the front is misaligned and the back is not. Almost as if the front and the back were from two separate cards...

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I was not aware that the front and back of a card always had to line up. Is this true?


The seller tried to sell me that lotus off ebay awhile back. A friend of mine has bought some power and bb duals from him and it seemed to go okay. Presumably they are real as I think my friend should be able to spot a fake. I turned down his offer as he was asking too much and I didn't like the condition and centering of the lotus. I ended up buying a MP condition lotus from SCG that probably could have been graded SP. I had two scans to chose from and the one I got was significantly better than the one I didn't get, which I noticed sold a few days ago. Mine is in very nice condition and I had been watching lotuses on Ebay and other online sites for several months and didn't think I was going to find a much better deal and have the security of buying from a reputable retailer. Decently priced loti seem hard to come by these days.

If you plan on dealing with high dollar cards get a 30x jewelers loupe for maybe $10. Then when you look at a fake card all the little imperfections in printing are magnified 30x. It's also pretty useful for examining the edges.

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Originally Posted by Royal Ass.

I was not aware that the front and back of a card always had to line up. Is this true?

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Generally they do. There are misprints where the front and back do not line up, but on a piece of Beta power, slightly misaligned horizontally on the front, I would assume rebacking, given that much of the CE/IE power out there is misaligned similarly.

Why is the price of Ancestral Vision up to $10 on SCG? It's still banned in Modern and sees little Legacy play. Am I missing something?

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Originally Posted by Royal Ass.

Why is the price of Ancestral Vision up to $10 on SCG? It's still banned in Modern and sees little Legacy play. Am I missing something?

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yes
it's a strong card that sees play in legacy as a (better) alternative to standstill
also, who cares about what is/isn't currently banned in modern
until that banned list changes, that format is shit

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Originally Posted by Royal Ass.

Why is the price of Ancestral Vision up to $10 on SCG? It's still banned in Modern and sees little Legacy play. Am I missing something?

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Depressingly enough, my guess is that people are buying them up because they think it works with Snapcaster Mage.

I am sure that you are right on that one. My feelings mirror yours. I remember when Candelabras had a similar bump, before high tide, because a few people thought they would combo with karoo lands for infinitie mana.

Talking about Candelabra, it had been down to more or less 120$ recently, but the announce of the ban had it shoot back up to 200$+. Too bad I didn't try hard enough to score one for Commander (was outbid twice by a ridiculous dollar in the last 2 weeks or so...)

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Originally Posted by http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/22/business/daily-stock-market-activity.html

Investors sold short-term bonds and bought longer-term ones, because they were “trying to buy up something that is going to be in demand, getting in front of the Fed, in essence,”

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I read this today, and thought that sounded way too much like MTG speculative activity. I wonder how that plays out in the Bonds market.

About the same oddly enough. Largest difference is you don't go to jail for knowing info before other people and making money off it in MTG. Bonds are crap btw. Stick with Silver, you can trust me on that one. If you're wondering why, they finally figured out how to mix an alloy with silver to make it not tarnish. If you're an engineer, you'll know what a big deal that is.

Any experts want to offer some opinions about when to cash out on Riptide Labs?

Any experts want to offer some opinions about when to cash out on Riptide Labs?

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Originally Posted by Onslaught

Any experts want to offer some opinions about when to cash out on Riptide Labs?

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You're the one speculating, you tell us that :wink:

This topic is mostly bitching about prices and reprints (hence the changed title), not really speculators gathering.

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Originally Posted by Onslaught

Any experts want to offer some opinions about when to cash out on Riptide Labs?

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If you don't know, you shouldn't be speculating, now should you?

Speculators buy low and sell high. Bad speculators don't sell when the card is higher than what they paid for it.

Good luck

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Originally Posted by Onslaught

Any experts want to offer some opinions about when to cash out on Riptide Labs?

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As fast as possible. Misstep->Snapcaster->misstep was the Main appeal of riptide lab going up. Snapcaster will loose value too (expect 1/3 of it's current Price). Riptide is too mana-hungry for legacy.

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Originally Posted by Mr.C

If you don't know, you shouldn't be speculating, now should you?

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Uh, I have some of them from drafting Onslaught a lot (years ago) and I'm just seeing if it's smart to get rid of them now in a thread about card prices. Settle down beavis.

Nice avatar by the way

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Originally Posted by Onslaught

Uh, I have some of them from drafting Onslaught a lot (years ago) and I'm just seeing if it's smart to get rid of them now in a thread about card prices. Settle down beavis.

Nice avatar by the way

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Sorry butthead.

It just gets tiresome to hear *everyone* talk about speculating and investing. It's cards, for God's sake, and they are super hard to move in physical form.

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Originally Posted by Lemnear

As fast as possible. Misstep->Snapcaster->misstep was the Main appeal of riptide lab going up. Snapcaster will loose value too (expect 1/3 of it's current Price). Riptide is too mana-hungry for legacy.

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I agree about "Misstep->Snapcaster->misstep was the Main appeal of riptide lab going up. Snapcaster will loose value too" but riptide is not too mana-hungry for legacy.

People are playing decks with a 5CMC artifact that has a (3) bounce itself ability.

Snapcaster can be vialed.
He can also be bounced, replayed, and flashback a STP for 5 mana. Bounce and replay of Batterskull is 8 - sometimes 5 (Stoneforge).
If you split snapcaster's replay costs over turns the most you're paying to use him again is 3 (2 for him, 1 for STP/BS/ECT).
If you split batterskull across multiple turns - you're still paying 5 most of the time.

Snapcaster + MM was absolutely insane. I still believe that Snapcaster is going to make an impact. I'm not convinced he's a 4 of yet. I'm going to try 2 to start but if I discover that I can get a tremendous amount of card advantage using him and spot removal, I'm going to be a very happy camper.
Looks like I'm going to be a very happy camper.


[EDIT] On topic - I'd unload the riptide's now. Send me a PM.

I personally think Riptide Lab/Wizards.tribal will make a showing.

Here's a sample list with relevant cards:


Lands:
3 Mutavault
2-3 Riptide Lab


Permission: 8 (+4 Spellstutter)
4 Daze
4 FoW

Others: 12
4 Aether Vial
4 Brainstorm
4 StP

Dudes: 18
4 Spellstutter Sprite
4 Dark Confidant
4 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Snapcaster (probably 2)
3 Vendilion Clique

Equipment: 2
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Feast/Famine


More viable Wizards:
Trinket Mage (wow but the deck will be very different)
Sower of Temptation
Grim Lavamancer (but the SFM package is better since it makes your little dudes big)

Not a fully optimized list but it goes to show how potent Riptide + Vial is. Riptide without Vial is a little too mana intensive and I doubt there's a mid-range/control deck that wants to use Cliques/Snapcaster to win over other methods of win-conditions (thopters, Jace)

Guess who's back??

Darksteel Lotus
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beta-Black-L...item2567d2463d


LOOOOOOOW Price!!!

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Originally Posted by Royal Ass.

Guess who's back??

Darksteel Lotus
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Beta-Black-L...item2567d2463d


LOOOOOOOW Price!!!

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ROFL what.

Wow. I ebay messaged him, telling him to try to return it to ABU.

[edit]: He claims it is real. I told him it was fake and he needed to return it.

What an idiot.

I can just hear this guys thought process ; "Hmmm, I can buy this card and glue it back together and then re-sell it for more... genius!"

Who in their right mind would rip a black lotus in half?

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Originally Posted by hyperchord24

Who in their right mind would rip a black lotus in half?

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The same kind of person who would eat one with mustard at Gen-con.

Probably someone who knew it was fake?




Anyway, I always make a small prediction on new sets for my friends so I figured I'd start listing it here also. Doesn't hurt. I did get fairly good at it over time. It helps avoid the heavy speculators so you can trade for what will be useful.

Just a quick opinion on what to pick up and what to avoid on mythics and some other things worth keeping in mind. I kind of talk about them as an overall thought and not just Legacy or Standard. More of a "I want this card because it's going up in price" type thing.

+ or - after the name is an indicator on price going up or down. Take off about 15% as is from current stuff for pre-order frenzy stupid people. $400 foil snapcaster playsets? Pfftt You know that will drop hard. Even foil Stoneforge was down to reasonable amounts after a bit during her heyday.

Snapcaster Mage obv - $20 is ending price in my book if you're wondering. Amazing in Legacy, Into the Roil useful in standard. Kind of weird how it worked out like that. Foils will probably still hit $50 then $40 after some time.

Liliana of the veil + Yeah, it's good. Really good. Mainly standard though. It's going to see a ton of play. Borderline playable in Legacy.

Garruck - I just hate his activations to get him to flip. Deathtouch wolves are awesome, but man, what a bunch of hoops to jump through. I'm going to lean towards a Sarkhan Vol type card. You really want it to work, but it just doesn't. Especially since he's green and if you're playing that color his other incarnation is ten million times better.

Foil Invisible Stalker + It's not bad. It's Silhana all over again with Swords in the format. Not quite that enchantment of her day, but close. Plus, the picture is cool as hell.

Mentor of the Meek + Puresteel likes this guy

Past in Flames + Better than it looks. This one is begging to be busted, especially in Modern.

Giest of St Traft + This is one of the most underrated in my book. He's one aggressive guy. Reminds me a lot of Knight of the Reliquary for some reason. Hexproof is just silly on a guy that smashes face for 6 for 3 mana. Crappy when he's blocked though. He has to be played in something that can give him evasion or equip up.

Olivia Voldaren + I'm convinced this card is actually decent. Pings stuff for 2 mana, steals at your convenience? Ummm, that seems pretty awesome. Oh yeah, she pings once and she's a 4/4 flyer for 4 that keeps getting bigger? Why is no one interested in this card? Maybe it's just me, but it seems like a steal for the mana. I bought 4 foils for myself. At the worst I have 4 foil ones to trade off as Commander generals. It just screams sleeper to me.

Skaab Ruinator - Meet Dissipate, Skaab dude. Dissipate was played much more than you ever will be. Oh yes, it's in the same set. So sad. Cough, Blade decks are still around no less, it has a spot already, where's yours? Honestly though, He'll see play, but he's not that hot. It really comes down to whether or not control sticks around. If it doesn't he's amazing vs aggro, if control stays in the format like I suspect it will, he's terrible. Dissipate owns him hard and that's a great counter with all this flashback.

Mikaeus - Ajani Gold-not-so-hot - Yeah...

Mirror Mad Phantasm - I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is total crap. It sure sounds like you could do all kind of cool shit, then you try to put it into practice. If I couldn't come up with even a remotely useful idea with it that couldn't be done with other cards better, then the chances are fairly small it's useful.

Reaper from the Abyss + Actually decent in Standard only. I kind of like this guy despite how expensive he is. 6 isn't too shabby for a guy who's going to double all your critter kill from there on out. Probably won't gain much, but he's still worth getting a couple if you play standard.

Other mythics are kind of jank.

Bloodline Keeper + Anything that sits over on your side and spews out tokens is usually good. The fact you get to do something with said spewed tokens is gravy. Slow, but reminds me of Skeletal Vampire. Standard only of course.

Champion of the Parish = This is probably worth watching just because he's efficient. White weenie hasn't been good in ages though.

Curse of Stalked Prey + I only mention this one since I thought of 5 infinite damage combos with this one right off the top of my head and 4 of them were only 2 card combos with it. Interesting to think about, though nothing really seemed worth building a deck around. Legacy only of course. The goblin in Standard that pings is pretty scary though.

Kesseg Wolf Run + Seems pretty decent in legacy since most of the best critters never seem to have trample. Obviously good in standard too.

Laboratory Maniac + I'm going to actually say there's a deck here. I played around with it and made this fun deck that's actually quite vicious. I pulled off a turn 3 kill with it and it wasn't anything all that hard to do. Worldly Tutors/BoPs/Thought Lash/Force/Misdirection/Daze/some other techy green card I forgot. You get the idea. I probably had too much beer thinking up that pile though.

Stony Silence + Tutorable with Enlightened in Legacy and a tad harder to kill than Null Rod, Null Rod in Standard. Worth a couple of bucks to be sure. Nothing expensive, but good.

Undead Alchemist + There's a Standard deck waiting to be built with this guy. I'm trying.



Anyway, most of the rares aren't worth getting worked up over. The werewolves are actually good btw. Luckily cheap too. The mythics are the only ones people care about anyway. So hope that helps somewhat while trading.

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Originally Posted by dahcmai

Probably someone who knew it was fake?






Skaab Ruinator - Meet Dissipate, Skaab dude. Dissipate was played much more than you ever will be. Oh yes, it's in the same set. So sad. Cough, Blade decks are still around no less, it has a spot already, where's yours? Honestly though, He'll see play, but he's not that hot. It really comes down to whether or not control sticks around. If it doesn't he's amazing vs aggro, if control stays in the format like I suspect it will, he's terrible. Dissipate owns him hard and that's a great counter with all this flashback.

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I dunno... I think he'll see a ton of play in Birthing Pod decks. He's a decent threat pretty early in the 'chain', and BPs ability bypasses his additional cost and allows him to evade counters. He'll be pretty hot in standard IMO.

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Originally Posted by majikal

The same kind of person who would eat one with mustard at Gen-con.

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Is this a true story?

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Originally Posted by keys

Is this a true story?

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100% true story. It was probably 1996 or 1997, some guy waltzes into the card game room in the middle of a Magic tournament, holds up a Black Lotus, smothers it in mustard, and chows down on it in front of everyone.

The gentleman with the Darksteel Lotus is now fairly convinced that it is fake, and he has talked with ABU, who still claim it is real, and he is sending it to BGS for them to determine whether or not it is counterfeit. I suggested T&T or SCG instead, but we will see.

The plot thickens. Although, does T&T and SCG authenticate cards? Is it a service, do you have to pay them?

And if it come back as real? I guess he'll be pretty annoyed with you ;)