Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Ha ha, oh wow. Wizards really does not want a Modern Pro Tour nor players feeling comfortable buying into Modern decks.
Gotta keep 'em playing Standard.
Here, I think they want to "shake up" the Modern format before the next Pro Tour so that the Pro teams are forced to innovate and not play safe with proven decks. After that, I think they hope people jump on the next bandwagon and invest into the next best thing showcased by the Pros at the Pro Tour. I'm going to laugh a lot if this ends up in a Lantern Control mirror for the PT finals, though. :laugh:
And for people who decide to drop from Modern because their deck was banhammered into oblivion and they don't have the money to buy a new deck, yes there is always Standard and Limited. Which is the end goal for WotC I fear...
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Originally Posted by
phonics
They didn't unban anything either, they aren't even trying. The last time they unbanned anything relevant was over 5 years ago.
My opinion on this is that they are keeping the obvious unbans on hand to do one of their "prisoner exchanges" the next time they really need to ban/restrict something in Legacy or Vintage...
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Petition not restricted in Vintage surprised me tbh. Legacy being ignored effectively in the last 5 years with not a single interesting unban since monolith i think. And even monolith has remained a scarcely played card in this format. Well w/e it was expected.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
phonics
They didn't unban anything either, [b]they aren't even trying[b]. The last time they unbanned anything relevant was over 5 years ago.
Exactly! WotC (for the most part) don't actively influence this format unless they feel it's absolutely necessary.
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Well, he had the entomb unban but that's about it..
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
Mr Miagi
Well, he had the entomb unban but that's about it..
And Time Spiral.
A lot of people thought Vise was not only going to be relevant, but actually OP!
I'm sure Twist will come off, and hopefully Earthcraft. Possibly FS and Recruiter. I figure they'll take their sweet time though.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
bruizar
Hopefully this will free up scalding tarns and snapcaster mages in the market. I doubt it but oh well.
Those cards are still going to be great in Modern...
That said... Wizards... Really?
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Originally Posted by
Crimhead
Exactly! WotC (for the most part) don't actively influence this format unless they feel it's absolutely necessary.
I think your giving Wizards too much credit here... I mean it's pretty clear they just don't care about Legacy... so they don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. Vintage is the same way...
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
Mr Miagi
Well, he had the entomb unban but that's about it..
Right i forgot entomb, that was actually a good and surprising unban (there were lots of 0-play cards that could've been unbanned before it).
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
Crimhead
And Time Spiral.
A lot of people thought Vise was not only going to be relevant, but actually OP!
I at least was in the "It will either do nothing or, if it turns out to be relevant, make games worse instead of more fun" camp. Basically, unbanning it had an EV of 0 or less, with pretty much no chance of a positive outcome other than a shorter banlist, which is next to meaningless. Luckily, we got the 0.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
GundamGuy
I think your giving Wizards too much credit here... I mean it's pretty clear they just don't care about Legacy... so they don't spend a lot of time thinking about it. Vintage is the same way...
They care enough about it to have banned DTT and TC, so obviously they watch it (out the corner of their eye). TC and MM didn't stay legal very long, so they're not even slow to react (when they think a ban is warranted).
Treating Legacy's banned policy differently than Modern's is not evidence that they don't care about the format.
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I think that the ban choices need to be handed over to a third party, like some judges or some known and respected members of the formats community. (ktkenshinx/Sheridan Lardner in Modern, Steven and Rich in Vintage. Feline if she still played as much as she use to would have my personal vote for Legacy) I do not like the lack of transparency, discussion or explanation from Wizards. I feel like for formats like Modern they are given less room to breathe thanks to Wizards love for the Promotional Tour and that they are not always interested in the formats best interest so much as they are interested in making something flashy at the cost of people who just play the game once a week.
Formats like Legacy and Vintage are just left to float along. Aside from the Delve cards the format has not changed in a long time. Once both the cards in question went away, the format reverted to a near mirror image of what it was and has stayed like that for too long to be healthy. The recent removal of cards from the list that do nothing is a mix of both applaudable and shameful in the fact that it was finally done and showing how long overdue these arts where. Now we need some real movement in the format, something like Survival. Because mark my words, Earthcraft, Twist and Recruiter will do next to nothing or nothing at all. We need real meaningful change. Not just because some things should be on the list that are for whatever reason untouchable, but because things on the list are laughable underpowered when stood next to what is openly available in the format already.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
Crimhead
They care enough about it to have banned DTT and TC, so obviously they watch it (out the corner of their eye). TC and MM didn't stay legal very long, so they're not even slow to react (when they think a ban is warranted).
Treating Legacy's banned policy differently than Modern's is not evidence that they don't care about the format.
I don't dispute that entirely.
On second thought, I believe there is less focus on it from Wizards prospective because there are a lot fewer GPs and no ProTours... the data points are fewer.
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Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
I think that the ban choices need to be handed over to a third party, like some judges or some known and respected members of the formats community. (ktkenshinx/Sheridan Lardner in Modern, Steven and Rich in Vintage. Feline if she still played as much as she use to would have my personal vote for Legacy) I do not like the lack of transparency, discussion or explanation from Wizards. I feel like for formats like Modern they are given less room to breathe thanks to Wizards love for the Promotional Tour and that they are not always interested in the formats best interest so much as they are interested in making something flashy at the cost of people who just play the game once a week.
Formats like Legacy and Vintage are just left to float along. Aside from the Delve cards the format has not changed in a long time. Once both the cards in question went away, the format reverted to a near mirror image of what it was and has stayed like that for too long to be healthy. The recent removal of cards from the list that do nothing is a mix of both applaudable and shameful in the fact that it was finally done and showing how long overdue these arts where. Now we need some real movement in the format, something like Survival. Because mark my words, Earthcraft, Twist and Recruiter will do next to nothing or nothing at all. We need real meaningful change. Not just because some things should be on the list that are for whatever reason untouchable, but because things on the list are laughable underpowered when stood next to what is openly available in the format already.
IMO maybe we should create a Modern ++ format that has the normal card restriction rules of Modern (8th edition on) but a better banned list, get people interested in playing it as an unsanctioned event and make Wizards take notice... like they did with Commander, and Pauper, and other formats... the community seems poised to push back based on the reactions that people are having.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
GundamGuy
IMO maybe we should create a Modern ++ format that has the normal card restriction rules of Modern (8th edition on) but a better banned list, get people interested in playing it as an unsanctioned event and make Wizards take notice... like they did with Commander, and Pauper, and other formats... the community seems poised to push back based on the reactions that people are having.
OR we could scrap Modern as a format entirely and fix the damn prices of cards so Legacy has full support as THE eternal format (Legacy Masters).
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Modern as a concept is very good. The format has it's own unique feel and tone that is unmatched by any other formant. Even if cost was no barrier, if Modern was supported correctly and not micromanaged I would still play it alongside Legacy and Vintage.
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Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
Modern as a concept is very good. The format has it's own unique feel and tone that is unmatched by any other formant. Even if cost was no barrier, if Modern was supported correctly and not micromanaged I would still play it alongside Legacy and Vintage.
This.
If WotC hadn't antagonised the Eternal formats to try to come out of the hole they excavated for themselves with the Restricted List, the three formats would happily live together and provide different forms of fun to eternal players.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Fun Fact: We are discussing Modern bannings in the Legacy B&R thread XD
Besides this, it is a shame what wizard is doing with Modern. Just for the sake of a fu*king tournament they are banning ANOTHER pillar of modern, must be nice....
Modern was awesome 2 years ago, now it is mainly crap due to what happened through the bannings + some absurd printings (modern level, not legacy).
Greetings,
Kathal
Re: All B/R update speculation.
I was under the impression we where discussing the stagnation of Legacy but hey, its all the same right now yes?
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
Crimhead
They care enough about it to have banned DTT and TC, so obviously they watch it (out the corner of their eye). TC and MM didn't stay legal very long, so they're not even slow to react (when they think a ban is warranted).
Treating Legacy's banned policy differently than Modern's is not evidence that they don't care about the format.
Very true. Those 2 cards didn't stay in the format long.
And I'm glad they treat Legacy the way they do, rather than the way Modern is going. That would drive me nuts.
Really dumb. For some people they can easily switch decks but for a lot of people they don't have the funds to switch decks. I built Pod just before it got banned which was annoying but since I don't really play Modern that much it wasn't devastating, just made me not want to play Modern at all.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
GundamGuy
I don't dispute that entirely.
On second thought, I believe there is less focus on it from Wizards prospective because there are a lot fewer GPs and no ProTours... the data points are fewer.
And yet their bannings are swift.
There is certainly less focus on Legacy because it is less central to their bottom line. I think this is a good thing because IMO focus from WotC translates less into protecting the integrity of the game, and more into protecting the popularity of the game (aka, cracking down on feel bad losses).
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Originally Posted by
Dice_Box
Aside from the Delve cards the format has not changed in a long time. Once both the cards in question went away, the format reverted to a near mirror image of what it was and has stayed like that for too long to be healthy.
I don't mind a stagnant format if it's in a good spot. Don't worry though. Theros & BFZ have been a little low powered, but soon enough we'll get a block or two with higher impact (like Scars, Innistrad, or RTR). Then we can go back to people complaining about how much the format is changing again!
Re: All B/R update speculation.
Please take a break, play with your kids or pets, and we'll see you all back onto this topic after 3 months.
Re: All B/R update speculation.
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Originally Posted by
Kathal
Besides this, it is a shame what wizard is doing with Modern. Just for the sake of a fu*king tournament they are banning ANOTHER pillar of modern, must be nice....
Modern was awesome 2 years ago, now it is mainly crap due to what happened through the bannings + some absurd printings (modern level, not legacy).
It's a Pro Tour format. The end. Really that's it. If Legacy was a pro tour format, Brainstorm would have been banned 5 years ago. I guess I don't understand what is interesting or even compelling about Splinter Twin? You either allow all the turn four derp I wins or you don't. I thought it should have gone when Pod went. Derp, turn 4, I win. Look you had nothing because the format has no sylvan, tutors, cantrips, pitch magic with text. Truthfully modern's 'problem' isn't the card pool or the banned list it's the player base, it's a bigger net deckers paradise than legacy, barely anyone explores the card pool at all. They are younger, less experienced players on balance who've grown up with lists being spoon fed to them by BVP and CVA. #millenials
