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-i'll try cutting down on crimes and see how it feelsQuote:
Originally Posted by EdsonDettoni
-i was thinking of charm as a double duty card as a x/1 creature kill. Instant speed discard also comes in handy :)
-no, I didn't even think about wrench mind.
-brigdes is a good defensive card. Too defensive that I'm thinking I may also miss the chance to swing with totems and ghasts if there's a chance.
Words of waste + Phyrexian Arena for modern, perhaps?
Isn't words of waste illegal for modern? Its a good card to include for the discard route though.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
You are right; the filter must have been bugged.
Oh well, here is another card that may have potential:
Delirium Skeins. I see it as Pox for modern. With recurring creatures and dredge cards it could be powerful.
I tested a modern pox deck, played it onyl a few times but won them all. Maybe we ca nbring that to legacy with some changes.
The list:
3 thoughtseize
3 inquisition of kozilek
1 raven's crime
4 smallpox
3 abrupt decay
1 darkblast
3 liliana of the veil
4 bloodghast
4 lingering souls
1 eternal witness
1 worm harvest
1 unburial rites
3 life from the loam
4 grisly salgave
lands:
4 verdant catacombs
4 marsh flats
2 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 horizon canopy
1 forest
1 dakmor salvage
1 treetop village
2 tectonic edge
1 ghost quarter
8 swamp
I think one of the main factors it worked is because nobody expected it.
Caould we adapt that into legacy?
1) nice.Quote:
Originally Posted by abetman
2) ok.
3) You are right.
Another Tuesday tourney. Only got 2-2, but the deck perform well. An unexpected problem turned up in the counter-top deck, however. The original deck is supposed to be very strong against it, but mine is weak.
4 Bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 Nihilith
2 Nether Spirit
4 Smallpox
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Pox
4 Innocent Blood
2 Wrench Mind
3 Darkblast
4 Dark Ritual
2 Sensei’s Divining Top
18 Swamp
2 Dakmor Salvage
SB
4 Powder Keg
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Perish
3 Surgical Extraction
I guess it's the lack of wastelands and Sink Holes that makes the match-up, vs counter-top, worse than it should be.
There is room in the deck for new cards to rectify this; the Wrench Minds was mostly a way to fill up the numbers due to lack of ideas.
Also, I am wondering if the rituals are needed. They don't win games.
To make it easier to figure out the weak cards and find replacements I tried rate them:
Darkblast
Smallpox
Sensei’s Divining Top
Pox
Bloodghast
Tombstalker
Dakmor Salvage
Dark Ritual
Nihilith
Innocent Blood
Hymn to Tourach
Nether Spirit
The Top is high on the list, Hymn to Tourach is not.
I guess that shows my thinking on discard, that it is not very powerful any longer. Not like the pox effects are.
The Nether spirits are simply win conditions. As such they can be replaced by anything.
Lastly the Dark rituals. While they allow casting expensive spells, when you have destroyed your own lands, rituals do not any longer equals "swamp, Ritual, negator, Go!"
Of course, now I need to find better replacements.
I like the fact you rate SDT rather high on your list. Would you state that SDT would be a permanent in Pox? Did you had the feeling it gave the deck an edge?
I recall keeping a one-land hand, something I would not normally do, because I also had a top.
It was like having serum powder:laugh:
Still, not proper card draw, and it is not as good filter effect as that which is employed by blue decks.
However it give you a feeling you have control over your draws. This is an illusion because you lack the blue manipulation elements.
Were it comes in handy is mid-and late game when you have failed to kill the opponent and need find more threats.
Phyrexian arena is probably better, but the game plan is not exactly to win by card advantage. Casting cost is also high, btw.
I well keep my two for now, and see no reason to ever have four.
I wouldn't be surprised if you get equally good results with Mishra's bauble that the original deck designer did.
I'm kind of surprised those 3 are on the bottom considering they're probably the strongest cards in the deck as far as my rating goes. Practically all lists run 4 Bloods, 4 Hymns, and 1-2 Spirits. Why are they so bad if they're considered Pox staples?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
The purpose of this rating exercise was to improve the deck in the same way you do your sideboarding: figure out what cards are weakest and what substitutions would be stronger.
Remember: all the cards are strong, the list merely reflect their worth in my deck design.
Innocent blood is low because it not a win con and just do one thing. Of course, since it so good at the only thing it does AND I need lots of creature kill, they will remain in my deck. Same can be said for hymn to Tourach except that it is not a card you want to draw when in top deck mode, unlike innocent blood. (bad top deck and being not a creatures kill is the main reasons for looking for replacements for it)
I would happily replace both by four more smallpox!
Nether spirit is there to increase the creature count. As a win con he is to weak:/but numbers matter more. Of course, even he will be replaced by better cards if I find any
One could think that without hymn and duress that the deck would be more vulnerable to combo, right? But that depends on the design of the whole deck. Also, it may be a design decision to make the deck stronger against non combo. (I am thinking of omniscience as the primary combo threat)
Here is what I consider the core of the original Days of Disease deck:
4 Bloodghast
4 Tombstalker
4 Nihilith
4 Smallpox
4 Pox
4 Innocent Blood
3 Darkblast
2 Dakmor Salvage
18 Swamp
This is 47 cards. Not tourney legal no matter how try look at it. Pity, 16% Pox effects had been quite nice.
So, from here I can go two ways; either increase the number of cards, but keep the proportions of categories, or take the opportunity to be creative.
I have 13-14 slots to fill with brutality so the later seem more fun!
I will continue this post later on, but in the meantime I am interested in hearing any crazy idea you guys got^^
Well, I wouldn't say it's crazy, but your land count is extremely low running 8 Pox. Even with the Salvages, CITP is very dangerous in Legacy. If you're not in a combo meta, forgoing targeted handkill is nice but ultimately, Hymn to Tourach is mandatory. Why? Well, Pox is a card advantage deck in a different flavor from Blue. Instead of Ancestral Recall or Concentrate or Divination, we use 8 Pox and Hymn to Tourach since we're spending less cards than them. Unfortunately, the blue adv. (hard draw) vs. Pox Advantage (Cards binned) has a better performance late game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
So, we need permanents on the field to lock our opponent. Liliana of the Veil comes to mind and Trinisphere or Nether Void. Since we can't use hard draw, we need to punish their topdeck.
Your advocating an aggro Pox by this list so I'd go the Land Destruction route. Why? Suspend / play a threat on turns 1-2 using Dark rit or hard casting, then start going after their land hard with Sinkholes, Poxes, and Rancid Earth. If all goes well, they'll be dead before they can topdeck a land to stabilize.
Land Destruction Pox threat to consider? Epochrasite. He can come out turn 1-2 and comes back with a vengeance from Innocent Blood/Poxing.
Citp?
It is a mistake, it's CIPT (Comes Into Play Tapped)Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardcore
I really dig the idea of using Epochrasite, never heard of the card before (not suprising, there are too many sometimes) I would also try Mox Diamond, love the idea to go all the way. Instead of Rancid Earth I would opt for Ghost Quarter, backed with Life from the Loam. Note that this is just a rough list: I would like to add some Liliana's for instance.
4 Bloodghast
4 Epochrasite
3 Life from the Loam
4 Pox
4 Smallpox
4 Sinkhole
4 Hymn
2 Top
2 Cursed Scroll
4 Mox Diamond
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Bayou
4 Wasteland
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
8 Swamp
Do not run G/B Pox without Abrupt Decay. It address the things mono-B can't handle. I used to run a Loam Pox with it but discovered myself durdling too much with the Dredge. If I wanted lands to come back, I have to say Crucible of Worlds is superior. At least you won't end up dredging precious disruption cards while doing so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatto
Let me know how this list goes after fighting a few people with it. I never did get G/B to work. Heavy creature rush down meta forced me to go the mono-B route and I found it to be much more consistent. That and Mono-B gets FAR better use of Dark Ritual and Liliana whereas the Green splash doesn't.
From what other people have posted, (Ali Aintrazi's article comes to mind) Cursed Scroll and Life from the Loam do NOT like each other at all. Be wary of that. ^_^
http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital.../tourn/5294139 4th list down, gotta love seeing that. ^.^
Another interesting primer
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=483236
old thread here:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=158085