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Thinking more about Punishing Jund Nic Fit, would it simply behoove the deck to bulk up on its best threats--2 ofs for Huntmaster, Thraggy, and a Thrun plus a dragon? Also, does Tarmogoyf have a place in the Jund builds? I mean, it could get big...but it could get swept in by your deeds as well.
I would like to be able to play that core of spells. Even though I am tempted to want to draw cards for its own sake, I completely agree that it has to lead somewhere. Drawing cards can be very powerful, though, so it is hard to judge. I have done some testing today with that 4x cruise list and liked it so far.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
I see a lot of talk about treasure cruise in every deck. But no one talking about hooting mandrills, I might run a few in my BUG walkers deck since it cost 1-6 and is safe from your typical deed activation. My walkers games go long and I always have a huge graveyard before I know it, that seems to do nothing but grow the tarmogoyf.
I have tried running a singleton Goyf in the PFire build,.. and it sucked. Early game you are spending to setup your manabase and playing removal to gain board control. In that stage i was holding back Goyf cus i had better stuf to do then cast a 3/4 vanilla. At the time i wanted creatures there i was going for different ones. Scavenging Ooze, Huntmaster, etc. Goyf is efficient, but you do not have control over it's P/T. Where the other creatures all provide utility. As far as Hooting Mandrills goes, i think that Nic Fit lists are as thight as they are already and both Thragtusk, Siege Rhino and Thrun are better, because that's the spot he will be fillin.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Crow's Eye
As for Treasure Cruise, i think that THE list for this card to be at would be BUG Veteran Walkers. Lots of removal, so a 3 card refuel would be really strong.
My guess is: you should just play TNN instead of Hooting Mandrills.Quote:
Originally Posted by whatwas
This was placed in T32 Ovino Italy. Does anyone know?Quote:
Originally Posted by ironclad8690
It could very well be if not for 2 things. 1. The available slots are pretty tight. I always had allot of difficulty sideboarding without wrecking the gameplan. 2. veteran walkers never doesnt really need to refuel as it's pretty hard to be empty-handed from my experience.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
That said I do feel it has a home in veteran walker in the Gitaxian Probe slot. yes you loose the nice interaction between Therapy and Probe but that doesnt really come up that often. Drawing 3 cards is always better than drawing 1. The only thing it that TC would be more midgame oriented where prode is available from turn 1.
http://www.tcdecks.net/deck.php?id=8079&iddeck=58879Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
Probably something like that, just updated for 2 years of new cards. Thiel has a long, successful history of playing junk-midrange style Nic Fit lists. It would be nice to see the actual list, but I think the odds of that happening are unfortunately low -- Thiel has never posted on Source (to my knowledge), and Ovino is notoriously bad at posting decklists.
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I do agree that Cruise likely has a home here. It's hard to escape the allure of Ancestral Recall in the "big mana" decks that can cast it (BUG Nic Fits and 12post) -- because even if the format shifts to aggressively hate graveyards (hi RIP Miracles), we can still just cast the damn thing unlike 'normal' decks where it just becomes FoW fodder. The problem is balancing the Things That Kill Them with the Things That Let Them Not Kill You.
Sagu Mauler may be the answer. More on this later today.
As for MAH DRILLS, I can't think of a world where we want to be casting a 4/4 instead of drawing 3. Drills may have viability in nonblue Nic Fits, but he for sure isn't good enough in blue. For white, I can't think of a time I would ever play Drills over Rhino. Red, though...red, you're talking. That's a possibility. Red doesn't have a lot of great creature options to begin with, and a 4/4 trample for ~2-3 might be good enough to at least consider.
Thnx and lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Arianrhod
Concerning Meh drills, i don't see what i would want to cut out of a pfire list for those. I would even go with more Huntmasters instead of these monkey's.
I might put together a Walkers list next week and see where it goes. Sideboard plan vs combo etc is te swap AD, Blood and PDeeds for a FoW/Counterbalance package. First draft would be:
4 Veteran Explorer
3 Baleful Strix
3 Sensei's Divining Top
4 Brainstorm
3 Treasure Cruise
3 Abrupt Decay
4 Cabal Therapy
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Innocent Blood
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Karn/Garruk
3 Underground Sea
2 Bayou
2 Tropical Island
2 Forest
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Verdant Catacomb
3 Polluted Delta
2 Misty Rainforest
1 Phyrexian Tower
Board
4 Counterbalance
4 Force of Will
2 Flusterstorm
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Notion Thief
2 Ensnaring Bridge
Eventhough both Karn Liberated and Garruk Apex Predator are excellent cards I found them really difficult to cast when I last played Veteran Walkers. In fact I boarded the Karns out almost every game. Yes you have the possibility of ramping with Veteran but still 7 mana turned out to be allot when I played it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bobmans
I really liked the Kiora I played since that stalls and just flatout wins games when you get to ultimate her.
But perhaps the Treasure Cruise gives you enough possibilities to get to enough mana to make it work. It wasnt available last time ;)
I've tested a ton with Apex Predator because I desperately wanted it to be good enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by XdeckX
It isn't. Save yourself the time.
As I've played veteran walkers at least twice in sanctioned events, I can tell you that leaving home without any surgical effect or another way to deal with punishing fire (Karn can at least "eat" the groves) is quite dangerous. The entire deck folds to an unchecked PF...Quote:
Originally Posted by XdeckX
The same could be said about man's land.
Still playing Scapewish and I am still very happy with the list. Running it at a GPT this weekend so expect results, good or bad. Made a few changes to the SB namely the sudden shocks. These are experimental BUT I really wanted something versus infect and elves. Infect can never beat the card and it can really disrupt the elves card advantage engine. It also time walks the Stoneforge+Batterskull combo and is an uncounterable way to kill delvers (not that we needed the help here). I have never wished for a deluge and as such I feel like it is pretty unneeded. Need to kill angels? Pulse. Need to kill a Griselbrand? Blood. Need to kill a progenitus? Wipe and blood or race it.
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Primeval Titan
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Thragtusk
4 Veteran Explorer
2 Wood Elves
1 Scavenging Ooze
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Burning Wish
4 Cabal Therapy
4 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Pernicious Deed
2 Scapeshift
3 Sensei's Divining Top
3 Badlands
2 Bayou
3 Forest
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
4 Taiga
2 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
4 Verdant Catacombs
SIDEBOARD
2 Sudden Shock
1 Innocent Blood
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Massacre
2 Pyroblast
1 Pyroclasm
1 Scapeshift
3 Slaughter Games
3 Thoughtseize
How is your infect MU, right now: Horrible, right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Surfkatt
I think I wished for Toxic D. once last year, against fish. It saved my ass ! But this was when TNN was everywhere.
You might be right with sudden shocks, elves MU is pretty miserable with Scape.
I need to test the infect matchup a little more but it does not seem fantastic. Abrupt decay helps and Deed is amazing but other than that we have to hope for good cabals. Same with elves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralf
TNN seems to be nowhere to be seen and even if he does show up, I can hard cast Massacre :P
@ bobmans I believe vraska is underratted in bug walkers id lose the 7 drop walkers for a vraska and a kiora they arent on the same power level as karn but signifigantly more castable
So I'm trying to determine sideboard strategies for my Lone Vet Junk Fit list (thank to Qweerios for suggesting going down to 1 Vet), and I'm stumped how I would side against Tin Fins.
Either I side in 3 Thalia or 3 Linvala (cutting Decay since, well, Decay doesn't help much against those decks). Thalia slows the deck down and comes down faster most of the time, but Linvala essentially stops the entire deck from functioning, kicking Bargainbrand and his small Children right in their activated abilities.
What would yall suggest?
Been brewing with Treasure Cruise (Boat Brew? idk) all day, and I have come to a very important question:
We can play Harmonize. We've been able to play Harmonize for years. A lot of us have tried Harmonize and found it to be a miserable card.
So, why exactly are we all afire about Cruising now? All too often it's just going to be Harmonize.
I don't know. I mean, I'm a vintage aficionado. I won my Recall in a tournament. I've resolved it quite a few times, and I know how good it feels. I just look at Cruise and shake my head. Maybe if Harmonize had a track record of being playable, then sure, whatever. As it is now, though, I just can't get behind it. I'd rather try to make Gifts work.
Hell fact or fiction seems just as good as harmonize and its not good enough either in bug lists and neither requires you to remove your reusuables fact or fiction can even add to the pile of reusuables and is not subject to things like chains or spirit or notion thief.
This card will not be harmonize as often as you think. I have been on it for 2 weeks (so not super long granted) and the first one is very easy to play for 1 mana. If you play one for 4 mana harmonize thats fine because in that instance you have 4 mana and are drawing 3. I dont think treasure cruise is an auto include so i wouldnt fault anybody for not playing it but i have found it to be just busted in my testing so far.